new canon PL lenses?

[albert rudnicki]

Anyone has got any reliable info ?

[Steve Das]

Am sure it will happen sooner rather than later...they have a huge
market of 5D and 7D users they can sell them to. All they have to
do is tell people PL mount lenses are better and people will buy them.

There is that one VFX supervisor who is an ASC associate member
and he's been telling them to come out with a set of PL primes
because he thinks the image quality is already there with their cameras.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I don't see it happening. Canon has no PL mount camera products, they are moving toward large sensor (FF35) hybrid stills/motion products, which most PL glass can't cover. The market is moving to fully electronic lenses that can be use both manually or in auto mode.

Canon has a large enough fan base that they can sell anything they make. I'm betting that we see a new line of hybrid still/video lenses from them in the near future. Lenses that appeal to cinematographers/videographers and stills shooters alike. Essentially what RED is aiming for with their RED FF35 Electronic Lenses.

OTOH, if they released PL mount versions of all their current L lenses and put gears on them, they would sell a ship load over night.

[Paul Hazlett]

"ship load" heheh thats funny

[Tom Lowe]

I seriously doubt it. Why do that when Red, for example, is making a Canon mount for Epic?

I do wish the Canon EF mount was more sturdy and stable, though. It's a super flimsy mount.

[Pawel Achtel]

Canon makes EC (cinema) and ENG (broadcast) lenses for 2/3" cameras. After it's competitor in this area, Fujinon announced beautiful PL lenses, I see it more likely than not that Canon will come up with PL glass. Just pure speculation, but considering product parity with Fujinon, I think the idea has merit.

[Michael Hastings]

I don't see it happening. Canon has no PL mount camera products, they are moving toward large sensor (FF35) hybrid stills/motion products, which most PL glass can't cover. The market is moving to fully electronic lenses that can be use both manually or in auto mode.

Canon has a large enough fan base that they can sell anything they make. I'm betting that we see a new line of hybrid still/video lenses from them in the near future. Lenses that appeal to cinematographers/videographers and stills shooters alike. Essentially what RED is aiming for with their RED FF35 Electronic Lenses.

OTOH, if they released PL mount versions of all their current L lenses and put gears on them, they would sell a ship load over night.

Possibly a hybrid mount like the compact primes?

Btw I live very close to Gregory Mirand of lumatech and have promoted having a slr cp2 type mount version of his new lenses, should hear more after his trip to Russia in a few weeks. They are pretty cool lenses - modern optics, Schott glass, RPP price, superspeed t1.3, and they just upgraded to new ball bearing mechanics.

[Dan Kanes]

More likely to happen:

Canon EF mount lenses with Red Zoom type mechanics from Canon.

That's my bet.

[Michael Hastings]

More likely to happen:

Canon EF mount lenses with Red Zoom type mechanics from Canon.

That's my bet.

That makes the most sense.

[albert rudnicki]

Why not.
They did it once; and it's still one of the best glass out there.
Zeiss with the Compact primes are doing very well; especially with the ef mount...
They are not in a competition with their direct clients.
The market of video/dslrs is huge.
None of the photo mounts are made to be efficiently and reliably used on the set.


http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/canon-pl-lenses-cr1/

[David C]

Maybe they'll make some "video-optimized" lenses where the focus ring has hard stops.

[Paul Leeming]

Someone here in Japan told me they are indeed in the pipeline.... no names, no court martials ;)

[Leo Ticheli]

Read it here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/whatsnew/

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[Leo Ticheli]

Sorry! I misread; thought the question was about L series lenses!

Don't know about PL Canon lenses, but the new D60 seems like a good back-up and slow-motion camera for the 5DII.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

[Erich Roland]

Canon is in a very good position to take Full advantage of this DSLR craze, but can they do it?

They should come out with a "cine set" of lenses for they're own DSLR product line. How tough would it be.... they have the manufacturing, and the glass already... they could package the L series primes and zooms into a housing with focus gears, and long throw focus rings with stops at the limits. The would sell thousands of these lenses. If they made PL versions.... OMG, look out below in the market for high priced PL glass. But I don't think they will, its such a departure from they're comfort zone.

Next generation "hybrid" DSLR camera SHOULD have better monitoring options, XLR audio inputs (exterior level controls) and they need to look at a stronger codec (if possible). If they head towards the "motion" camera shooter's needs, they would take a lot of potential Red Scarlett buyers if they can get to it soon, otherwise many frustrated DSLR shooters (pro's who understand the difference) will migrate to the "cinema friendlier" Scarlett camera even if it cost more.

Canon could really do some damage to the market at this level if they step up and smell the coffee, but I'm not so sure they have the mind set to take these steps. They don't seem to have a "cine" mentality, and business model. Canon is used to thinking in terms of hundreds of thousands of copies, not a few thousand. I'm not sure they understand what they have in they're hands, or how to capitalize on it. We will soon see, but I have my doubts they can swing to a different business model to capitalize on the "motion" potential. BUT as someone said before they did "step up" with "cine style" video, and 16mm lenses, (Id guess didn't sell thousands of copies) but did they make money from those efforts, is probably the question? Id guess the revenue figures for the "film style" (relative to the video versions of those lenses)... possibly looks paltry, so could be a non-motivator for Canon to branch out.

If they don't step up on the camera side I expect Red and Scarlett to come in and steal a decent size slice of pie away from the DSLR movement. Its just too awkward to use these cameras in the current state and the codec sucks, so the market is ripe to pluck in the next wave.... by whoever steps it up to the next level with 35mm cine style camera with the features we need. Looks like Pany and Sony are both headed this way as well, but these 2 companies have they're issues.

Interesting times, for sure!

[Ramesh Jai]

Maybe stupid but I always wonder- why can't Canon take the XL 1 body and just put the 5D MKII 'engine' in there so that we have an XL1 that can shoot video like the MKII..? Please crucify me gently. I'm not a technical guy.

[Dan Kanes]

Here's the thing - HDSLR cameras in this
Generation are kinda neat - great for one man band operations and very small scale production, once you try to integrate them into full-scale Hollywood productions where client monitoring is not "optional" and anything beyond a 720p master is required then you are in a world of hurt.

When it takes 10 minutes to go from low mode handheld to studio with follow focus major money is lost because of the time it takes. 10 minutes can cost several thousand dollars. A way bigger cost than the purported "savings" created by shooting with a 5D or 7D. They do make great insert or "director/operator" cams.

Epic will take the form factor convenience of these cams and decimate them in terms of usability and image quality. ~IF~ red gets the accessories and accessory interfaces right. Hopefully this is why they are taking their time with the release, to make them usable, reliable and stable out of the gate unlike prosumer dslrs being forced into professional environments where they fall apart completely.

[albert rudnicki]

Lets please stay on the topic or the thread will be shot down by the moderator.
Thanks

[Rick Darge]

I love me some Vintage Canon PL glass

[Steve Gal]

EF Mount really was not meant to handle the torque of follow focus pulling constantly. If they made the lenses in EF mount and then allowed control of the internal motors of the lens then they solve the problem of EF mount not being as solid as a PL design. No more pressure on the mount. That would be a smart way to go. Or they would have to come up with an updated EF mount sort of like the Optitek style Nikon mount. You also have the problem of the camera body when attached to dslr baseplates and current rigs still is not held solid. The new Viewfactor cage actually does solve this problem with it attaching from top & bottom. So Canon would need to come up with a camera body that has a solid base and a solid mount and a set of EF mount lenses with control of the motors for focusing.

[Michael Hastings]

When it takes 10 minutes to go from low mode handheld to studio with follow focus major money is lost because of the time it takes. 10 minutes can cost several thousand dollars. A way bigger cost than the purported "savings" created by shooting with a 5D or 7D. They do make great insert or "director/operator" cams.


However, they are so inexpensive you can have multiple bodies preconfigured in different modes so even less time lost to reconfiguring so kind of turns that objection on its head. Image quality artifacts are where dslrs really fall short but will be interesting to see where that goes.

I suspect canon might make both cinestyle primes and offer more control of their current motorized lenses. If they don't give electronic control themselves I am sure 3rd parties will chime in soon.

[Marc Berger]

Canon already announced "Power focus" in there new telephoto lenses. A feature to get smooth FF in movie mode. I´m sure the EF lenses will gain a lot of popularity with Epic/Scarlet S35 with the EF mount, but a Canon PL lens should be a complete new lens design. I don´t see a big necessity for "rehoused EF Lenses with PL mount".
I think, if they really would do a PL lens set, they will do it right and design them from scratch.

[Mitch Gross]

I discussed the idea of Canon making a set of 35PL primes with them years ago before RED started shipping cameras. I noted that we'd be able to sell 1000 sets of rehoused L-series primes in the first year.

And the response was that in the end it wasn't deemed a financially viable investment for a company of the scale of Canon.

[Pawel Achtel]

I agree with the feedback Mitch received that rehousing L-series glass would be poor decision because these lenses are slow, mechanics are not up to cinema standards, they breathe and format is not exactly optimal (FF instead of S35). Due to those reasons rehoused L lenses would not attract premium price.

I think Canon would rather entertain high-end zoom lenses, perhaps using image stabilisation technology, to compete with Fujinon S35 glass and consistent with their EC/ENG range of products. These would be priced about $30k-$50k range, I'd guess. But, numbers may not be there unless ENG market is interested in S35 glass, which may take years or it may never happen.

[Tom Lowe]

I can definitely see Canon making some "Cine" versions of their glass, with longer focus throw, less breathing, etc. Hasn't Zeiss essentially done this with their compact primes, etc?

It's a shame that the Canon mount is so damn flimsy. With my 1D4 hanging off the back of a 600mm f/4, I can easily jiggle the camera body around. They need a sturdier way of securing the lens to the camera.

[Dan Kanes]

However, they are so inexpensive you can have multiple bodies preconfigured in different modes so even less time lost to reconfiguring so kind of turns that objection on its head. .

Yes, except for when producers only want to rent Two camera bodies, and pay for one assistant with Two Operators.

Sorry for the Rantful nature of my post - but I had literally just come off a Very Large Scale (for these days) Music Video (Yes - they actually still make them!) that could have probably afforded to be shot on film, or Red but instead settled for a mediocre camera system for both A and B cameras. Of course, I took the biggest beating - being hired as the DIT who also turned into the "AC"...

I got hired because I know alot about these cameras, but had no idea of the kind of circus I was being thrown into.:nopity:

[Zach Wilson]

Yeah.. not a fan of the canon mount either tom.

And I can't see them doing PL glass for sure. Why would they produce PL mount glass when none of their cams are rigged to accept it. I don't think they would want to promote getting their own camera's modified by 3rd party companies to accept a different lens mount.

Smartest solution to better glass would be the Ziess CP's in my opinion.

[Pawel Achtel]

...Why would they produce PL mount glass when none of their cams are rigged to accept it...

Perhaps for exactly the same reasons why they produce broadcast ENG/EFP and EC B4 mount lenses.

http://www.canon.com/bctv/products/index_ec.html

[Sanjin Jukic]

Decades ago Canon already have won Academy Award for K-35 series lenses that were based on legendary Canon's first generation of aspherical design for Canon FD lenses.

1977 - The K-35 series of lenses for cinematography wins an Academy Award from the U.S. Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

LINK>> (http://www.canon.com/about/history/03.html)

Today probably Canon decided to re-birth, re-make and re-design those K-35 lenses with PL mount.

[albert rudnicki]

Perhaps for exactly the same reasons why they produce broadcast ENG/EFP and EC B4 mount lenses.

http://www.canon.com/bctv/products/index_ec.html

Great find Pawel, I have never seen those...
http://www.canon.com/bctv/products/index_ec.html?WT.mc_id=C126149

Would they work on the 2/3 Scarlet?


In spite of the scepticism I believe there is a potential and market for Canon to produce the set of primes

[Zach Wilson]

Perhaps for exactly the same reasons why they produce broadcast ENG/EFP and EC B4 mount lenses.

http://www.canon.com/bctv/products/index_ec.html

Yes good find indeed. I was thinking more of the L-Series in PL because of the way everyone was talking. But i guess when you look at all the other mounts they utilize it's kind of a wonder why they don't do PL

[Mitch Gross]

http://www.canon.com/bctv/products/index_ec.html

Available for sale or rent from Abel Cine Tech.

[Nils J. Nesse]

Perhaps for exactly the same reasons why they produce broadcast ENG/EFP and EC B4 mount lenses.

http://www.canon.com/bctv/products/index_ec.html

Wow, the 2/3" primes are about $20K each... What was the price of those Red Mini Primes again?

[Jeff Kieffer]

I love me some Vintage Canon PL glass

yep, same here ;)

[albert rudnicki]

Yap, I am looking for a set of the old K35 for my self.
Has anyone seen anything out there recently?

[Paul Hazlett]

I believe the k-35's will also cover FF epics and Scarlets no?

[Jeff Kieffer]

I believe the k-35's will also cover FF epics and Scarlets no?

Currently, I'm getting mine converted to PL, but yes I think they do, although I'm not 100% sure for the 18mm.

[Pawel Achtel]

Available for sale or rent from Abel Cine Tech.

LOL, you just can't help yourself, Mitch. :wink:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

LOL, you just can't help yourself, Mitch. :wink:

If only the actual sales reps at Abel were as aggressive as Mitch! There's times you can't get those guys to return a call or an email.

As for the Canon lens thing, I do think Canon will make more cinema-oriented glass. I just don't see it being in PL mount form. The market for PL mount primes is becoming crowded and Canon is pushing fully into hybrid stills/motion territory. I foresee any serious pro lens offerings that may be forthcoming from them will be fully electronic and will cover FF35, while providing features that stills shooters and motion shooters alike will appreciate. Think of RED's announced FF35 electronic primes, complete with OLED lens "markings", hybrid stills/cine gears, etc.. This is where the market is headed. It's not going to S35/APS-C fully manual lenses. Plenty of those out there now anyway in just about every price range.

All just my opinion and I could be dead wrong.