An offer you can't refuse... 4K or 2K to 35mm

[filip kovcin]

hello there,
i have an offer here - i have possibility to use 4K or 2K images in DPX format and make copies on 35mm.

maybe it will be interesting for us redusers to have, let say 1 or 2 minute long 35mm copy with the scenes from RED -for own use.

Just imagine - your own copy of 35mm on huge cinema screen!!!!

it means that material from DXP files is transfered to 35mm. and those DPX files are needed.

i have good contact with pro lab here in poland and can ask them for the price range for say 200 copies, and if everythig goes well (read: cheap enough - which i beleive is possible here in poland due to much lower prices for lab and people - comparing to, say other european countries), i can send later that copies to people who are involved in project..

it will be ONE same 1 or 2 minutes long material on each single copy.


what i will need (preliminary - you can add your thoughts of curse):

- cappable server(s) where you can upload your dpx files. (i will try to manage this in poland also, but maybe is easier to have i.e. two or three different places in the world to make it easier (faster) to upload).
- DPX files - of course from you. not single frames but small sequences.
- confirmation that you are the author(s) of the uploaded file(s), and approval to use it free of charge for that one test/copy purpose, so no one will blame me for using something what is copyrighted etc.
- willing to share the cost of one copy and 1/200th of the cost of transfering from DPX to 35mm filim
- info that you will use 35mm copy just as reference - not for commercial use.
- info about you - to put it on last few seconds on this 35mm copy (like in the movies - the list of all people engaged in project.
- wish to share thoughts - how to prepare list of clips on 35mm (i.e. anyone can send any lenght, but as redusers - we can find a way to prepare it in a fair way - to expose certain things more or less etc. -please remember that longer film will cost more, so i think 2 minutes are best maximum lenght, but i will ask very preciselly of course)

just for your info/reference - if i am not wrong (i beleive not) – ONE HUNDRED copies of 15sec. long clip transfered from 2K (actualy original was on HD, but enlarged to 2K) cost 16.000 zlotys which is about 4.000 euros. So this means that EACH copy costs 40 euro, which is not so bad. I beleive that, since OUR project is not commercial, i can manage much, much better prices (i am sure that guys in the lab will be also curious to see the results) this means that 1 minute long clip will NOT cost 4x15sec! - NO! NO! i beleive that more realistic is 2x15sec. but i will check that with the lab preciselly, and will know the exact amount for 1 minute and 2 minutes long clip.

the last part of this idea is following – i will try to do it as simple as possible.
After redusers decide what to transfer on 35mm (arrilaser), lab will make say 200 copies. I will involve some (my own private) money just to START this. And, since i know the guys from lab i will kindly ask them for certain period of time to delay the full final payment. In the mean time i will send you the copies. You should pay for the your own copy AFTER you receive the copy! I think this sounds fair.

Copies will be produced in pro lab, with all possible standards met. (the lab is working with TOP DOPs from Poland including oscar nominated! and oscar holders! Yes!) and making also copies internationally, so – i beleive if the copy is good enough for oscar nominated people – it will be good enough for us from reduser. or i am wrong? :)

So – to make long story short – what do you think about this?

filip

[filip kovcin]

maybe this offer was sent in wrong time... i mean during european day... maybe someone will put his thoughts on this above?
filip

[Kevin Halverson]

I think that this is an interesting idea. For someone considering this, when are you intending to do this? Would you be putting an optical sound track on these test prints?

[m11]

Looks really good, Filip! I think I'm in! When my @red arrives, I'll try to contact you! Thanks for possible co-operation in future ;)
Maris from Riga, LV

[Brice Ansel]

Filip that sounds good, I'll be definitively interested, hum when my red arrive.
Brice

[filip kovcin]

I think that this is an interesting idea. For someone considering this, when are you intending to do this? Would you be putting an optical sound track on these test prints?

hello khmuse,
i can start any minute when receive the DPX files, but i think that it wll be fair to give the others also possibility to judge, decide etc - how those two minutes may look. i.e. if 10 people send different files - what to do - to include ALL of them or to choose somehow and find the best ones from certain point of view - say - dinamic range, artificial light, overexposed elements in the shot, wide color pallette etc... - i do not want to be the judge - just want to offer to others what is for someone way too complicated, but for me just the oposite, because i know the people from the lab, and for me is simply possible.

i can make (i mean not personally, but the lab) dolby SR copy if needed, or even dolby digital, but i think that solution (digital) will be much more expensive. the cost of SR is not that big. but i didn't thought about sound at all, but of course - it's possible. if we decide to add sound to test - then i will need at least proper sound - 48K, 16bit as a wave, aiff or - for dolby - protools session with media.

maybe it's better to make 50 or 100 copies instead of 200. i just need feedback from you - how many people are interested in this.

thank you,
filip

[Chris Swinbanks]

You might want to find out and post details of what system will be used to transfer the files to film. Ideally you'd be looking at an Arrilaser film recorder for output for highest quality, onto intermediate negative stock. Also post about what print stock they'll be printing onto. There's many variables in the filmout process that can affect the final look of your material. And you probably should also get some "known quantity" material, such as Macbeth charts, china girls (Kodak digital LAD) or other familiar material recorded at the head so that you are confident of the duplication process.

[filip kovcin]

You might want to find out and post details of what system will be used to transfer the files to film. Ideally you'd be looking at an Arrilaser film recorder for output for highest quality, onto intermediate negative stock.

yes, arrilaser will be used.


Also post about what print stock they'll be printing onto. There's many variables in the filmout process that can affect the final look of your material.

this is the thing we can decide together. i can use any stock for that purpose. we need just to decide - which one.


And you probably should also get some "known quantity" material, such as Macbeth charts, china girls (Kodak digital LAD) or other familiar material recorded at the head so that you are confident of the duplication process.

macbeth is already prepared. kodak LAD in my case is not with china girls, but with blond one, but we use this LAD as a must, so i didn't mentioned it earlier, but you are right, this must be included of course. thank you for suggestions.

filip

[Damien Molineaux]

Hi Filip,

Thank you for this offfer. I am interested. Depending on when this will be happening, I should be getting my camera early december, I'm planning a series of tests with a number of local DPs. The timing needs to be right, not too early, not too late. Hopefully our local labs, Egli Swiss Effects, Schwarz Film AG, Blow Up, etc. will also be interested in running some tests. I would be interested to have the same scene transfered to film by different labs.

Cheers,
Damien

[Antoine Baumann]

I have to admit, I don't fully understand your offer, filip.

Is it for sort of personnal demo, or for testing print out with RED footage and find out a workflow that works?

antoine.

[filip kovcin]

to earthling/damien:

I would be interested to have the same scene transfered to film by different labs.

of course this is possible. the idea is to have, i.e. 2 minutes of clips as DPX in one edited sequence and to print it on 35mm. if someone wants to use the same files - and the owners of the files are ok with that - anyone can use it and send to his lab of choice and print it on 35mm for himself.

to laboprod/antoine:

I have to admit, I don't fully understand your offer, filip.
Is it for sort of personnal demo, or for testing print out with RED footage and find out a workflow that works?

sorry if this is not extremly clear. english is not my native language. i will try to make it more clear:

main idea is of course - to put 2minutes of different RED footage on 35mm film.
to do so - single person must use RED to shoot, edit, convert files to DPX, sent to lab, use arrilaser and other equipment and to finally receive 1 small 2minutes roll of 35mm film. and that single person will pay for all procedures involved. which is for ONE person (at least in my opinion) very expencive.

so, i suggested - since we are community - to share what we have - possibility to shoot different shots in different situations and places, with different visual and artistic character, light, content etc. and to send that on certain server as DPX files.
if - say - 20 people sent their files on server - it is good starting point to gather all of them and make simple editing and make 2 minutes sequence - different shots from different authors. so any of them has it's own 6 sec inside that seuence.
but, in my opinion those 6 secs are not so important, the most important thing is to see HOW IT LOOKS ON THE BIG SCREEN!
and to share it with others who are not in possition to shoot right now; or to go to certain place like swiss mountains, nevada desert or below the sea or on the top of the eiffel tower, or somewhere in sahara...

and other importan thing is that you will not pay 4000 euros for 15 seconds footage transfered to 35mm film, but the fraction of it - if we manage to make lot of copies. i.e. if we manage to have 200 people interested in this - it means that everyone will pay 1/200th of all costs - which is affordable for everyone.

and to go back to your question directly - this is more collective demo... and yes - it is for testing, but not for the workflow - with DPX files workflow is perfectly known. all labs are working with DPX files. the testing is mainly for us and people with whom we will work in nearest future.

i believe that RED will have extremly huge impact to all independent movie makers and in my opinion

everyone will ask sooner or later: "well, how it looks on the big screen?"

and you will answer: "well, here it is - in this small 2 minute roll - you can check that :)"

and this is just the begining... of your fantastic movie!

all the best,

filip

[ChrisLyon]

RedUser can host the DPX files. Users can upload their files and be downloaded by another user. It can be private access as well.

[filip kovcin]

RedUser can host the DPX files. Users can upload their files and be downloaded by another user. It can be private access as well.

Chris, are you saying that REDUSER can host those files?
I can see that you have REDRELAY host (if i am not wrong. so maybe you are talking about REDRELAY?) anyhow
If REDUSER - anyone of us can kindly ask for hosting those files in special catalog for DPX files (say, DPX -->35)
and vioila! we can start!

all the best,

filip

[Keith Alan Morris]

I'm interested, but dont get mine til February.