View Full Version : Come help on a multi-camera comparison shoot
10-09-2007, 03:33 PM
With the imminent delivery of my first RED ONE camera, I have begun pre-prodcution on my first project with the system; a test of multiple cameras and formats, including 35mm and 16mm film, and several other high-end digital acquisition tools. This will be very much a "real world" application and result in a finished, commercial product, and will not focus on measurement charts or pixel-peeping. Instead, it will highlight (no pun intended!) differences in dynamic range, image noise, depth of field characteristics, and overall resolution. Just because someone will probably bring it up: it is not a replacement or overlap with LART (of which I am also a collaborator), but a totally separate project with different goals and priorities. I expect we will be seeing lots of unique tests by many qualified professionals in the months to come.
Much more information will be released on a public basis in the weeks ahead, but for now, I am simply extending the offer for anyone who would like to help to send me a PM with your experience and the services you can provide, and if we can work something out, I will bring you on board. This is a serious project, not a casual test, so please only inquire if you're ready to get down in the trenches with us. However, given the nature of the camera's enthusiastic following, I expect that the results will get a good deal of notice, and everyone who participates will be duly credited. The test will be Los Angeles-based.
10-09-2007, 03:50 PM
Are you taking suggestions for possible tests? If so, I am curious about something I haven't seen carefully tested: several people have said that motion on the Red with "180 degree shutter" looks more blurred than they are used to seeing with 180 shutters on film cameras. However someone from red (Graeme?) has stated that it is indeed exactly 180 degrees, or 1/48 exposure at 24 fps. So it is a puzzle. Is it some kind of illusion, or is it real, and if so why?
10-09-2007, 03:57 PM
Sure, suggestions are definitely welcome. I already have the bulk of the format laid out, but if someone comes up with something that I hadn't thought of or might work well for what we're doing, that's what this board is for! :-)
My hunch is that a good deal of our shooting will be at 180 degrees, and all cameras involved in the test will shoot the exact same material, so this project should be a great comparison in how each of the cameras renders motion in their own way.
10-09-2007, 05:58 PM
Haakon!!! very cool. count me in. Keep me posted. interested in being part of this... With your camera, hopefully you will have the release that has been in beta for a couple weeks..
10-09-2007, 08:52 PM
what 16mm, 35mm cameras, lenses will you be testing? Will we see comparisons using same lens? Also, what film stocks? In your panning tests, how will you control pan speeds? Will you have a way of controlling the heads to match speed? I'm just curious, don't feel the need to respond to these. It sounds like a nice test and will look forward to the results.
10-09-2007, 09:11 PM
PM sent to ya of course. Sounds like fun.
10-09-2007, 09:28 PM
The same lenses will be absolutely be used on the cameras that accept PL lenses. There are some cameras in this project that do not. We are still working out details as to which cameras will be involved as time constraints will limit the number we are able to test each day. I will try to test as many as possible, but expectations have to be kept realistic for a shoot of this type. As far as panning, etc., it won't be down to a motion-control level of exactness. What a user will be able to gain from comparing the images is how the images themselves hold up from the various qualities I listed above, and how they compare to each other in a real-world shooting situation. I make no guarantees to anything, other than it will be unbiased and just one user's tests. My goal is that the community will gain some insight from the project about RED and how it compares to other options in the industry. The more tests that are done, the better! :-)
10-09-2007, 10:18 PM
If you want to do an exact comparison of pan action, you could rig up a plate to mount two cameras on the same tripod head. I think that could be pretty simple but it may be more trouble than it's worth, especially if more than two cameras are involved. Probably easier to have repeatable subject motion instead, like the pendulum on a grandfather clock.
10-09-2007, 11:37 PM
I can tell you right now that there will not be an exact pan action comparison. :-) For starters, there will be a minimum of three cameras in the test - but even if that wasn't a variable, that kind of thing is way beyond what this project calls for. What will be important is that the action is generally consistent. We aren't doing any kind of effects work, it is just an organized production in which viewers can analyze the image characteristics of each camera in our roundup. Of course we will do our professional best to make sure that everything is as closely perfect as possible. Thank you for the suggestions though!
10-10-2007, 09:02 PM
Even without matching the pans speeds, I think it still has merit. I suppose what you are after is a feel thing. They are all going to elicit a different response. That will be interesting. If someone were to paint the same scene with three different mediums each one will hit you differently. I get what you are doing, and I am anxious to see your results.
10-10-2007, 09:24 PM
red vs SI
10-12-2007, 07:33 PM
I'd suggest numerous shots that fill the frame with lots of small, sharp detail. We've seen how these can really tax the compression; there's another thread where a forest path and a field of foliage produced some artifacts.
One thing that really limits the value of much test footage we've seen is the emphasis on shallow DOF or expansive desert-type scenes or shots with lots of sky; these smooth out or simply lack a lot of high-frequency detail. Let's see what happens in a complicated urban street scene with lots of DOF and architectural details. Of course, architectural details may be hard to come by in L.A., so plan for some more foliage shots. Oh wait, there's no foliage either...
10-12-2007, 08:47 PM
Haha, point taken. I'll see how I can best incorporate that element into the shoot, thanks.
10-13-2007, 12:23 AM
Count me in.