Zeiss DSLR TEST

[Jim Cummings]

Fellow REDheads,

This is a lens test for the newest ZF Zeiss primes sent from the CEO himself for testing with the 5D for an article in Indieslate Magazine by Robert Harrison. I thought I might swing by and shoot a bit with them on the RED.
They are the sharpest lenses I have ever shot with.

Build 30, before the MX upgrade.
TEST:
**********************
http://vimeo.com/9196516
**********************

Jim Cummings
San Francisco
www.jimmycthatsme.com

[Evin Grant]

Compared to what? The ZF line is pretty good but compared to Zeiss's own Master Primes, the Leica C primes or even the Optimo zooms they do not hold up as well.

[Dan Kanes]

LOL @ my shoutout in that video.

[Antoine Fabi]

Compared to what? The ZF line is pretty good but compared to Zeiss's own Master Primes, the Leica C primes or even the Optimo zooms they do not hold up as well.

I am interested to know about Zeiss cine standard speed vs Zeiss ZF.

Did you a/b them ?

Antoine

[Evin Grant]

Yes, the ZFs obviously have more coverage (Full Frame 35 still), but the faster 1.4 lenses do not perform as well till f2 or f2.8. The 28mm is actually the same optical formula for both. The only real disadvantage to the Standards is portholing, which is a darkening of the edges of the frame because of steep light angles. This issue is only really present in the 12, 16, 24 and 32mm lenses and is gone by f2.8.

Obviously the Standard Speeds are cine lenses with T stops and real focus scales which is a huge advantage for critical focus pulling and time sensitive productions.

My personal opinion though is that the ZFs although very nice are not noticeably sharper than the equivalent condition Nikon AIS still primes for a much higher premium. Also the AIS 85mm f1.4 Nikkor is definately a superior lens to the Zeiss 85 wide open at least in my limited comparisons.

[J Davis]

My personal opinion though is that the ZFs although very nice are not noticeably sharper than the equivalent condition Nikon AIS still primes for a much higher premium. Also the AIS 85mm f1.4 Nikkor is definately a superior lens to the Zeiss 85 wide open at least in my limited comparisons.

I find that pretty interesting ... I've been researching, shooting with and collecting old nikon manual primes for the past 18 months. I love their feel and sharpness and even though there are some sucky duds (like the 24/2 which I've managed to avoid) I'm more than happy with my current set (24/2.8, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 50-135/3.5).
I know my opinion may not count for much but I recently moved over to one particular efs zoom because would you believe it, I found it even sharper than those nikons. 17-55/2.8.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

@ the OP... Were they really the ZF primes and not the ZE primes? Same thing you know, but the ZE version is the Canon mount version and focus rings turn the opposite direction (vs. Nikon version). Then again, I've known plenty of people who buy ZF's and then use flimsy adapters, that can't guaranty infinity focus, to mount them to their 7D or 5D2... WTF...? I didn't go hunt down the cited article. I just always wonder that when people talk about using ZF's with their Canon cameras.

As for Evin's comments, I have to agree. And the Nikon 85mm F1.4 AIS is one seriously sweet lens.

[Evin Grant]

J, the 28mm f2 Nikkor is much sharper wide open than the 24 f2.

[J Davis]

yes I hated the 24 f2, couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

edit:
I'm really pleased with the 24 f2.8 that I currently shoot with, I'll keep a look out for the lens u mentioned too

[Sanjin Jukic]

I prefer more zooms than primes for my run & gun style of shooting.

Nikon 14-24mm G f/2.8 and Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4.0 both fit in that need pretty good.

Also both are FF35, very sharp, great contrast, lightweight and even their rendering can color match.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Nikon14-24mm_crop.jpg
Shot on 7D with Nikon 14-24mm G f/2.8 @ 2.8 & 24mm (crop), adapter no any color adjustment, used with Novoflex Nikon G to EOS adapter.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Leica28-90mm_crop.jpg
Shot on 7D with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4.0 @ /2.8 & 28mm (crop), no any color adjustment, used with Novoflex Leica R to EOS adapter.

Together with Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 I do have a range of 1:10 (8mm to 90mm) with those three zooms in my backpack.

Still considering a fast prime set between

Leica M (Summilux 21mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm f/1.4 & Noctilux 50mm f/0.95 with price about 25.000 Euro !!!!

or

Nikon G set (24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm @ f/1.4) with price about 5500 Euro !!!

Also using Leica M on Epic or Scarlet would require a custom build Leica M mount that blowing costs even higher.

[Michael Totten]

Fellow REDheads,
They are the sharpest lenses I have ever shot with.

Build 30, before the MX upgrade.
TEST:
**********************
http://vimeo.com/9196516
**********************

Jim Cummings
San Francisco
www.jimmycthatsme.com

meh... give me a softer lens and a 'sharp' / high res sensor... I think that's the formula. IMO, super sharp lens on the Red is just to much... but that's totally subjective.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

my zfs are all de-clicked, geared, and A-mount.

LOVE them!

[George A.]

meh... give me a softer lens and a 'sharp' / high res sensor... I think that's the formula. IMO, super sharp lens on the Red is just to much... but that's totally subjective.

I totally agree...

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I totally agree...

double agree.. softer lens.. ultra sharp sensor = most cinematic look in my opinion.. ultra sharp everything bores me..

[Matthew Duclos]

I've always had my opinion regarding sharpness of lenses which is I would always want the sharpest lens possible and retain the option of dialing down the sharpness with filters or nets. If you start with a soft lens, then your limited to the lack of sharpness of that lens. Starting sharper just gives the user more options I suppose. A proverbial blank canvas. However... I do love the look of vintage glass like Super Baltars and old Panchros. Mmmmmm sooooft.

[Frank Nicholas]

I've always had my opinion regarding sharpness of lenses which is I would always want the sharpest lens possible and retain the option of dialing down the sharpness with filters or nets. If you start with a soft lens, then your limited to the lack of sharpness of that lens. Starting sharper just gives the user more options I suppose. A proverbial blank canvas. However... I do love the look of vintage glass like Super Baltars and old Panchros. Mmmmmm sooooft.

I'm of the same mind Matthew.

Adore most vintage glass, but usually prefer to use sharp glass.

[Antoine Fabi]

What amazes me is that there are some lenses that have as much resolving power than a super sharp lense, but does have a very nice and organic "diffusion".

ex: ZFs are SUPER sharp lenses, almost clinical perfection.
On the other hand, Cooke's and old Canon FDs have plenty of detail reproduction, but definitively have a "diffusion" (a lack of a better word), a unique and pleasant feel to them.

But again, it may have to do only with how the the sensor reacts.

The RED sensor LOVES the old Canon FDs.

Antoine

[Zakaree Sandberg]

thats why i have my sharp zeiss lenses..
and soter cinematic kowas


now days you almost have to do in camera stuff.. like use softer lenses..

or else the editor might change your look up on you.. and give you a sharp image in post, when you want a soft

[Jonathan Burton]

On a side note, how do Nikon mount lenses go on the Red? I have only ever shot with PL glass but am looking to buy when the Scarlet arrives and prob can't afford PL's of my own.

Is there any wobble or movement in the mounting when pulling focus? Is the fact that the Nikon mount is not a "positive locking" system causing anyone any issues?

[Shane Kelly]

On a side note, how do Nikon mount lenses go on the Red? I have only ever shot with PL glass but am looking to buy when the Scarlet arrives and prob can't afford PL's of my own.

Is there any wobble or movement in the mounting when pulling focus? Is the fact that the Nikon mount is not a "positive locking" system causing anyone any issues?

No wobble if you use Optiteks nikon mount. See here: http://www.optitek.org/nikon-prolock.php

[C. Jagan Mohan]

Fellow REDheads,

This is a lens test for the newest ZF Zeiss primes sent from the CEO himself for testing with the 5D for an article in Indieslate Magazine by Robert Harrison. I thought I might swing by and shoot a bit with them on the RED.
They are the sharpest lenses I have ever shot with.



I have seen this video somewhare long back.

[Evin Grant]

Sharpness and resolution are not the same thing, if you look at the airy disc created by lenses that have very high acuity you see that high contrast line definition actually reduces subtle textural rendering ability. This is why lenses that draw softer often times still have plenty of detail. Especially on a high res sensor that can make up for some acuity loss by simple oversampling. This is also the reason that many older large format film camera lenses seem like such poor performers when tested optically but produce stunning super high resolution images on 4x5 and 8x10 film.

[Antoine Fabi]

Sharpness and resolution are not the same thing, if you look at the airy disc created by lenses that have very high acuity you see that high contrast line definition actually reduces subtle textural rendering ability. This is why lenses that draw softer often times still have plenty of detail. Especially on a high res sensor that can make up for some acuity loss by simple oversampling. This is also the reason that many older large format film camera lenses seem like such poor performers when tested optically but produce stunning super high resolution images on 4x5 and 8x10 film.

E-X-A-C-T-L-Y

I thought i was the only one to see that...

Evin, you precisely described the images that old Canon FDs deliver.

A little "smoother" looking than my Zeiss ZFs, but with incredible, as much subtle textural rendering ability.


Antoine

[James Brundige]

My personal opinion though is that the ZFs although very nice are not noticeably sharper than the equivalent condition Nikon AIS still primes for a much higher premium. Also the AIS 85mm f1.4 Nikkor is definately a superior lens to the Zeiss 85 wide open at least in my limited comparisons.

When I first got my R1, I worked hard to collect a set of Nikon AIS primes, only to discover that a new Nikon 17-35 zoom looked better than all of them. I need to test more in the 28-70 mm range. Comments?

[Antoine Fabi]

James,

The Nikon 28-70 f2.8 is a GREAT lense :)

Very usable at f2.8

I've used it with my R1 and it looks beautifull.

Almost perfect for documentary.

Antoine