Shakeout Notes from James Mathers, owner RED #30

[James Mathers]

I wanted to share some of my experiences with the new camera within our community of current and future RED Owners and Users. Although I would say the camera is still in a Beta mode, after a series of test shoots, I felt confident enough to send it out on it's first rental today, and am planning to start a feature with it before the end of the year. Today's project is a music video, and although another DP is shooting, I required they hire my Camera Assistant/DIT to go along and make sure things go smoothly.
After getting up to speed on the workflow and with the steady supply of firmware updates, (which have been going very smoothly), I would have to say that I am very pleased with the results I have been getting. I did experience a loose mount, as I understand others also have, but when notified RED, they had me bring right in and fixed it while I waited; exemplary customer service.
We held a Digital Cinema Society meeting last Saturday here in L.A. and showed a 35mm output of some of our test footage. The three minute sample reel was made up of consolidated test shots acquired in L.A., San Francisco, and Chicago. We had planned to also project in 4K, and although we were offered a gratis Sony SXRD, we were not able to locate a server to borrow. This was unfortunate, because the digital projection I saw at the lab looked far superior to the 35mm, especially with the dirt, scratches, and gitter in the projector. However, it was very informative to see RED footage out to film, which is still the way it will be seen for any kind of theatrical release.
Our little tests certainly don’t have the production value of “Crossing the Line”, but I hope it demonstrates how the camera performs in a wide variety of real world shooting situations. Those of you who might be interested can see a low res streaming version of it on our website:

http://www.digitalcinemasociety.org/content.php?page=NAB%2007

These tests were produced completely independent of RED, with the volunteer services of dozens of DCS members who were interested to find out about the technology. I've now shot without any problems to report in a wide variety of situations. I've had very good results with lenses that include Zeiss Master Primes, Cooke Zooms, (both my older Mk II 25-250 and the new 15-40mm), as well as my Zeiss T2.1 Primes. I also windowed down to 2K to shoot a quick test with a Fujinon 2/3" cine style zoom and the RED B4 Adapter. I can tell you it worked, although I didn't get a chance to shoot any resolution charts for serious evaluation.
I've also had a chance to shoot 72fps at 2K and a 1/48 shutter; and haven't experienced any problems, as I understand others may have. I should mention that I was shooting completely under tungsten light, in case the issues others may have had were flicker related to shooting non synchronous light sources off speed.
Now, for a challenge I've been experiencing -- I'm trying to find an adapter to go between the RED and my 35mm offset Arri 15mm balance plate accessories. The RED 19mm system that comes with the Base Production Pack lines up well, and so does their 15mm Adapter for my higher and closer spaced Chrosiel Matte Box, but I have quite a few older Arri 15mm accessories, like a 6x6 Matte Box, Follow Focus, and Lens Supports that are off center.
I guess the piece I need would be a called a "base plate" that bolts into the camera and interfaces to the Arri dove tail balance plate. The old Arri one I have is off center about 1/4" inch; (the camera would need to move to camera right on the plate to line up). I bought the RED Arri plate, then found it was also off center to line up with my older Arri gear and lenses. Please let me know if anyone has any suggestions, and if I find one, I'll be sure to let the RED community know. Thanks for sharing your experiences as we trudge this road together.

James Mathers
Cinematographer and President
Digital Cinema Society
Studio City, CA USA

[jbeale]

Welcome to the Red community, and thanks for your testing feedback and informative updates! I'm sorry I have no idea how to solve the 15mm Arri offset question, but I hope someone here can help.

-John Beale

[Kenn Michael]

Yes, thanks for your feedback! Very helpful.

....just signed up to become a member of the Digital Cinema Society...

[dvpixl]

wow. I've been waiting for tests like these. thanks! And great acting on your part!

[I Bloom]

Thanks James, welcome.

IBloom

[Daniel Reichenbach]

I wanted to share some of my experiences with the new camera within our community of current and future RED Owners and Users.

Thanks for sharing these pictures with us, very professional, gives me a good feeling for the possibilities of REDone.

[Shawn Nelson]

Wasn't this the Kodak "test" that Jim talked about?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thank you for posting this!

Nice to see RED on a steadi and I really liked the Chicago night shots.

[Simon Smith]

I wanted to share some of my experiences with the new camera within our community of current and future RED Owners and Users. Although I would say the camera is still in a Beta mode, after a series of test shoots, I felt confident enough to send it out on it's first rental today, and am planning to start a feature with it before the end of the year. Today's project is a music video, and although another DP is shooting, I required they hire my Camera Assistant/DIT to go along and make sure things go smoothly.
After getting up to speed on the workflow and with the steady supply of firmware updates, (which have been going very smoothly), I would have to say that I am very pleased with the results I have been getting. I did experience a loose mount, as I understand others also have, but when notified RED, they had me bring right in and fixed it while I waited; exemplary customer service.
We held a Digital Cinema Society meeting last Saturday here in L.A. and showed a 35mm output of some of our test footage. The three minute sample reel was made up of consolidated test shots acquired in L.A., San Francisco, and Chicago. We had planned to also project in 4K, and although we were offered a gratis Sony SXRD, we were not able to locate a server to borrow. This was unfortunate, because the digital projection I saw at the lab looked far superior to the 35mm, especially with the dirt, scratches, and gitter in the projector. However, it was very informative to see RED footage out to film, which is still the way it will be seen for any kind of theatrical release.
Our little tests certainly don’t have the production value of “Crossing the Line”, but I hope it demonstrates how the camera performs in a wide variety of real world shooting situations. Those of you who might be interested can see a low res streaming version of it on our website:

http://www.digitalcinemasociety.org/content.php?page=NAB%2007

These tests were produced completely independent of RED, with the volunteer services of dozens of DCS members who were interested to find out about the technology. I've now shot without any problems to report in a wide variety of situations. I've had very good results with lenses that include Zeiss Master Primes, Cooke Zooms, (both my older Mk II 25-250 and the new 15-40mm), as well as my Zeiss T2.1 Primes. I also windowed down to 2K to shoot a quick test with a Fujinon 2/3" cine style zoom and the RED B4 Adapter. I can tell you it worked, although I didn't get a chance to shoot any resolution charts for serious evaluation.
I've also had a chance to shoot 72fps at 2K and a 1/48 shutter; and haven't experienced any problems, as I understand others may have. I should mention that I was shooting completely under tungsten light, in case the issues others may have had were flicker related to shooting non synchronous light sources off speed.
Now, for a challenge I've been experiencing -- I'm trying to find an adapter to go between the RED and my 35mm offset Arri 15mm balance plate accessories. The RED 19mm system that comes with the Base Production Pack lines up well, and so does their 15mm Adapter for my higher and closer spaced Chrosiel Matte Box, but I have quite a few older Arri 15mm accessories, like a 6x6 Matte Box, Follow Focus, and Lens Supports that are off center.
I guess the piece I need would be a called a "base plate" that bolts into the camera and interfaces to the Arri dove tail balance plate. The old Arri one I have is off center about 1/4" inch; (the camera would need to move to camera right on the plate to line up). I bought the RED Arri plate, then found it was also off center to line up with my older Arri gear and lenses. Please let me know if anyone has any suggestions, and if I find one, I'll be sure to let the RED community know. Thanks for sharing your experiences as we trudge this road together.

James Mathers
Cinematographer and President
Digital Cinema Society
Studio City, CA USA

Can you add a 720p or 1k higher rez version of the 1st clip available at your webpage? Thanks.

[Andrew Benz]

Wasn't this the Kodak "test" that Jim talked about?

No Bro.

[Shawn Nelson]

No Bro.

Okay cool, my bad, I knew one of the Red owners had volunteered his camera for that and I mistakenly thought it was #30.

[Andrew Benz]

Okay cool, my bad, I knew one of the Red owners had volunteered his camera for that and I mistakenly thought it was #30.

Hey Shawn,

That's right, I can see that.

I really do appreciate Mr. Mathers post. I look forward to many more hopefully.

[M.Halsell]

Thanks for the informative production notes and evaluation results.

[Evan Owen]

Can you add a 720p or 1k higher rez version of the 1st clip available at your webpage? Thanks.

I second that.

If you don't have the server capacity, I'm sure there are a couple people around here willing to donate (RedRelay)?

Thanks again for the test and notes, very helpful...

[planet e]

some great test shooting, especially all of the low light bits....it is pretty funny how RED is producing some of the cleanest web video ever.

thanks for sharing this info and for your thoughts.

[Michael Schrengohst]

Yes, low noise means better compressed results....
As I patiently await my RED we are struggling
with HVX footage that was shot greenscreen
that will be keyed over white.

[Rudi Herbert]

Mr. Mathers,

So, how did the 35 mm transfer hold up? You say the 4 K version was far cleaner and superior to the 35 mm, nevertheless, since as you said, 35 mm will still be the most common avenue for theatrical exhibition, I'm curious as to what you thought of it? Was the resolution enough, noise levels, black levels, highlights, anything else?

Thanks in advance,

Rudi Herbert

[Steven Parker]

I was lucky enough to help James with the test shooting with #30, and also saw the 35mm print.

James mentioned the accessory issue; I'm sure that will be solved soon, even if by a 3rd party vendor. And I'm glad Red is keeping the updates coming fast and furious.

It was too bad we couldn't see the 4K projection - I have a feeling it would have been more impressive than the print, as much as I hate to say that. James said they scanned out to an internegative then printed to Vision2 print stock. I believe it was the first projection so the print itself must have been in pretty good shape.

Ignoring the print's occasional dust and jitter, it was still tough to really evaluate the print. The colorist was there and mentioned that many shots were timed to demonstrate the Red's dynamic range, not necessarily to be pleasing to the eye. So some of the night exteriors looked overly grainy with milky blacks. But the detail is amazing - Jim mentioned he could barely see the boats in the Chicago fireworks shot that his Red was able to grab, and the colorist was able to pull out for the print without clipping the fireworks themselves too badly. The shot of the El train and the parking sign looked really good, and a sunset from San Francisco was particularly beautiful.

And then some shots just really popped, really nicely, like the magician juggling. Also, the greenscreen wipe we set up and lit in about 20 minutes and didn't really have too much time to tweak it. The talent had that beautiful hair that I was sure would be hell to key - but the shot looked great, no aliasing or jaggies or artifacts that I could see.

So Red can most definitely acquire for print release, especially if you time it for style and mood. But the Red also shows some limitations of the print stock itself so there needs to be tight integration of the LUTs from Red to print stock of choice. James mentioned this himself; he also said what he saw in 4K at the lab was what he got on print at our screening. But I wonder if they had skipped the IN and filmed-out directly to print, would the images have been a bit cleaner?

Just my 2 cents.

Also, the Leader of the Rebellion himself stopped by, and so did Lucas from Assimilate, which I thought was pretty cool, as well as the editors. All in all, a great learning opportunity. James is out there doing great work for DCS members, everyone here should consider membership.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Aside from the lit scenes, everything looked great.

I especially liked the landscapes.

[chuck colburn]

So far as the offset on the Arri baseplate goes you could make an intermediate plate to go betwee the camera and Arri unit and this would allow you to put in a series of holes for different balance points and/or mounting configurations. This might be easier than locating a new mounting screw in the Arri unit since as I recall the underside of the Arri plate has weight reduction ribbing which might make it difficult (not impossible but it would require some milling machine work) to locate a new hole. Anyone got a picture of the underside of the Arri plate?

[Ramesh Jai]

Yes, low noise means better compressed results....
As I patiently await my RED we are struggling
with HVX footage that was shot greenscreen
that will be keyed over white.
Keying over white has always given me headaches especially the edges. Please do share some secrets or tricks you have learnt along the way.

[Damien Molineaux]

So far as the offset on the Arri baseplate goes you could make an intermediate plate to go betwee the camera and Arri unit and this would allow you to put in a series of holes for different balance points and/or mounting configurations. This might be easier than locating a new mounting screw in the Arri unit since as I recall the underside of the Arri plate has weight reduction ribbing which might make it difficult (not impossible but it would require some milling machine work) to locate a new hole. Anyone got a picture of the underside of the Arri plate?

Could the Red Cheese Plate do the trick ?

http://www.red.com/store/product_detail/48

Cheers,
Damien

[Jim Arthurs]

Keying over white has always given me headaches especially the edges. Please do share some secrets or tricks you have learnt along the way.

Here's an example I did a few months ago of just that; An HVX greenscreen shoot I DP'ed with the end results matted over white...

http://ftp.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/HVX_TESTS/Key-over-white_example.mov