Audio enabled soon?

[Noah Kadner]

We're looking at getting outboard field audio recording gear this week to go with our new Reds. Any idea if on-board audio is scheduled to be enabled in the next update?

-Noah

[Rainer Fritz]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5270&highlight=features+enabled

[Noah Kadner]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5270&highlight=features+enabled

Yes thanks but that's like 11 pages worth of posts. Is audio mentioned somewhere in there? :help:

-Noah

[Kevin Lang]

Well I think what he is refering to is the qoute by Jim saying "We now expect all features to be enabled by November 30th"

[David Battistella]

Yes thanks but that's like 11 pages worth of posts. Is audio mentioned somewhere in there? :help:

-Noah

Noah,

I have seen posts saying that audio is a priority but I have not seen a list that says when it will be enabled.

A low cost recording solution might be an Zoom H4 or you could rend some hard disk recorder to do double system.

I suspect that before the end of this year we might see some clips with sync sound posted on this site.

Maybe the bottleneck is Red Alert or RED cine.

David

[Noah Kadner]

A low cost recording solution might be an Zoom H4 or you could rend some hard disk recorder to do double system.

David

Yup that's my plan. Maybe I'm old school but with no sound I don't see the point calling action.

Noah

[Mr. Paul White]

Is this Zoom H4 the best solution?

I've also found this one...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FPQFKO/ref=pd_cp_e_1/105-7666744-9136452?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=08674WPX4QQ9165JRYQ0&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=250314601&pf_rd_i=B000LGA2K6

Any thoughts?

[philper]

Is this Zoom H4 the best solution?

I've also found this one...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FPQFKO/ref=pd_cp_e_1/105-7666744-9136452?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=08674WPX4QQ9165JRYQ0&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=250314601&pf_rd_i=B000LGA2K6

Any thoughts?

These both work fine but do not produce audio that is in the same league as a Sound Devices etc field recorder. They can record at higher sample rates than 48k and @ 24 bits but the poor quality of the analog audio electronics doesn't allow the sound recorded to be any better than that recorded at 16/48. Since this has also been true of all video camcorders so far (incl HD), it will be interesting to see how Red's audio will compare. The R09 and the H4 are great for what they were designed for--quick grab-shot recording on the spur of the moment.

Philip Perkins (CAS)

[David Battistella]

Is this Zoom H4 the best solution?

I've also found this one...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FPQFKO/ref=pd_cp_e_1/105-7666744-9136452?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=08674WPX4QQ9165JRYQ0&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=250314601&pf_rd_i=B000LGA2K6

Any thoughts?

The zoom has no TC stamping and only records sequential files #000, #001, #002 etc. It will take some file management to sync takes and you will need to use a clapper to sync the sound. It's like recording to Nagra.

Old school baby!

David

[David Battistella]

Yup that's my plan. Maybe I'm old school but with no sound I don't see the point calling action.

Noah

You could always use sign language :)

d

[Andrew Benz]

You could always use sign language :)

d ... or mime it! :)

As soon as I am able I am going after the four channel sound devices field recorder.

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/744t.htm

[Noah Kadner]

These both work fine but do not produce audio that is in the same league as a Sound Devices etc field recorder. They can record at higher sample rates than 48k and @ 24 bits but the poor quality of the analog audio electronics doesn't allow the sound recorded to be any better than that recorded at 16/48. Since this has also been true of all video camcorders so far (incl HD), it will be interesting to see how Red's audio will compare. The R09 and the H4 are great for what they were designed for--quick grab-shot recording on the spur of the moment.

Philip Perkins (CAS)

Hi Philip-
Good suggestion- I'm going to look into that one. I was also thinking about the Cantar (http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/)- beautiful but pricey. Any opinion about the Tascam HD-P2 (http://www.tascam.com/details;8,11,52.html)? We want something that would be affordable, portable, easy to use and capable of pro sound while we wait for on-board audio.

-Noah





-Noah

[Jay A. Kelley]

... or mime it! :)

As soon as I am able I am going after the four channel sound devices field recorder.

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/744t.htm

We just used this on a feature and the sound people were NOT impressed. Numerous heat issues, freezing up, re-booting...

Be careful... Rent it for a while first.

Also there was a lot of padding nessesary if I remember well

Jay

[Andrew Benz]

We just used this on a feature and the sound people were NOT impressed. Numerous heat issues, freezing up, re-booting...

Be careful... Rent it for a while first.

Also there was a lot of padding nessesary if I remember well

Jay

Really... thank you Jay. Back to the drawing boards. :bye2:

Things like the above is the one of the reasons that I plan to post what I am going to buy in order to turn up unforseen issues with gear. I will also test or rent when applicable and that is good advice from Jay. I also plan to ask upon the experiences of guys like Kevin (aka kmuse).

Cheers and thanks again for the care,

Andrew

[David Battistella]

great resource:


http://www.trewaudio.com/nonlinear.htm


david

[Andrew Benz]

great resource:


http://www.trewaudio.com/nonlinear.htm


david

Dude... it's field audio heaven. :)

Thank You David.

Cheers- Andrew

[philper]

We just used this on a feature and the sound people were NOT impressed. Numerous heat issues, freezing up, re-booting...

Be careful... Rent it for a while first.

Also there was a lot of padding nessesary if I remember well

Jay

Then they didn't set it up correctly. The 744 and 702 Sound Devices recorders have become industry standards in the last few years, selling far more units than Zaxcom/Deva and Cantar. They've been proven very reliable under terrible conditions, have extremely accurate TC and sound great. Like all the file-based recorders they have an operating system that one must get used to and have some practice with. Renting before buying is a great idea, but consider that a very high quality 4 track recorder with TXCO clock and TC that can record to 3 media simultaneously costs about $4k. The input levels of all the inputs can be adjusted in software to whatever level you need.

Philip Perkins

[philper]

Hi Philip-
Good suggestion- I'm going to look into that one. I was also thinking about the Cantar (http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/)- beautiful but pricey. Any opinion about the Tascam HD-P2 (http://www.tascam.com/details;8,11,52.html)? We want something that would be affordable, portable, easy to use and capable of pro sound while we wait for on-board audio.
-Noah

-Noah

I use a HDP2 all the time and it has worked very well for me. That said, it is not the same machine as a Sound Devices recorder. The audio is very good, no complaints for field audio, but the TC section takes some getting used to. The P2 has a TC generator but its clock isn't accurate enough for for long-term sync sound (like 20 min +). As if to acknowledge this the recorder has a TC input (and clock w/ Trilevel sync) but no TC output. The way I generally use the P2 is by taking a TC feed from the video camera, either wired or wireless, and have the P2 clock itself to this incoming TC. This has worked very well, and made for a very efficient TC 2 track recorder that cost me about $900. Note that this scenario allows the video camera to work in record-run TC mode--very popular with some editors and producers. It also allows use of an "auto-record" function in which the recorder will start recording in a new file when it sees ascending TC, and will stop recording and close that file when the TC stops, now waiting for new TC. (Sound Devices machines do this too.)

When I want to use the HDP2 for film sync sound, or with a video camera w/ no TC connection of any kind, then I use an outboard TC generator like the Denecke SB2. I can jam this to the camera TC (in free run) and it is as accurate as any other TC generator out there. Again, have the P2 clock itself to the incoming TC. If your takes are short (a few minutes) the P2 clock will be fine on its own, but you won't have a way to jam a TC slate to its code. For delivery, I usually pull the CF card, put it in a reader on my laptop and burn DVD-Rs for post.

Philip Perkins

[Andrew Benz]

Then they didn't set it up correctly. The 744 and 702 Sound Devices recorders have become industry standards in the last few years, selling far more units than Zaxcom/Deva and Cantar. They've been proven very reliable under terrible conditions, have extremely accurate TC and sound great. Like all the file-based recorders they have an operating system that one must get used to and have some practice with. Renting before buying is a great idea, but consider that a very high quality 4 track recorder with TXCO clock and TC that can record to 3 media simultaneously costs about $4k. The input levels of all the inputs can be adjusted in software to whatever level you need.

Philip Perkins

Thank You Philip.

[Paul Kalbach]

Hi Phillip----long time no see. Good to see you on this forum.

I don't have an SD 744, but I can attest to the no-nonsense superb quality of Sound Devices gear. I've been using their SD 442 mixer and am very happy with it.

Another option that some people might consider that are on a more limited budget than an SD 744 is the Fostex FR-2 with the time code option. The only complaint I have with mine really is that it's a real battery hog as far as using AA internal batteries. But using it with an external NP-1 is a very viable system.

Paul

[Stacey Spears]

Philip,

Thank you for the info. I picked up an A2 and was wondering the best way to sync it with a camera. Your post really helps out.

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

I've used a 744T for years and it is a great machine..:gun:

[Paul Leeming]

I'm also going to chime in with recommending the Sounddevices units. I have used them extensively on shoots and they are fantastic units. It could be that the HDD in the particular example that Jay mentioned was faulty - that can happen in any device that is portable and has moving, spinning parts inside of it! Personally, having used the 722 (2 channel version) for ages, and having ONE problem with it (the sound guy dropped it into a lake, so what do you expect?!), I'll definitely be picking one up once I get all my cameras sorted. I'm actually leaning towards the 702T (http://www.sounddevices.com/products/702t.htm) since it doesn't have a HDD in it at all, meaning I can just buy one or two additional Red Compact Flash cards and have a robust, no moving parts solution which is even more battery efficient than the HDD versions.

HTH

Paul

[Simon Smith]

I'm afraid, you're totally wrong. This thread is about audio on board, not outside.

[Noah Kadner]

I use a HDP2 all the time and it has worked very well for me. That said, it is not the same machine as a Sound Devices recorder. The audio is very good, no complaints for field audio, but the TC section takes some getting used to. The P2 has a TC generator but its clock isn't accurate enough for for long-term sync sound (like 20 min +). As if to acknowledge this the recorder has a TC input (and clock w/ Trilevel sync) but no TC output. The way I generally use the P2 is by taking a TC feed from the video camera, either wired or wireless, and have the P2 clock itself to this incoming TC. This has worked very well, and made for a very efficient TC 2 track recorder that cost me about $900. Note that this scenario allows the video camera to work in record-run TC mode--very popular with some editors and producers. It also allows use of an "auto-record" function in which the recorder will start recording in a new file when it sees ascending TC, and will stop recording and close that file when the TC stops, now waiting for new TC. (Sound Devices machines do this too.)

When I want to use the HDP2 for film sync sound, or with a video camera w/ no TC connection of any kind, then I use an outboard TC generator like the Denecke SB2. I can jam this to the camera TC (in free run) and it is as accurate as any other TC generator out there. Again, have the P2 clock itself to the incoming TC. If your takes are short (a few minutes) the P2 clock will be fine on its own, but you won't have a way to jam a TC slate to its code. For delivery, I usually pull the CF card, put it in a reader on my laptop and burn DVD-Rs for post.

Philip Perkins

Very cool- thanks for the info.

-Noah

[David Battistella]

I'm afraid, you're totally wrong. This thread is about audio on board, not outside.

How do you read thread #1 ?

[Jay A. Kelley]

Then they didn't set it up correctly. The 744 and 702 Sound Devices recorders have become industry standards in the last few years, selling far more units than Zaxcom/Deva and Cantar. They've been proven very reliable under terrible conditions, have extremely accurate TC and sound great. Like all the file-based recorders they have an operating system that one must get used to and have some practice with. Renting before buying is a great idea, but consider that a very high quality 4 track recorder with TXCO clock and TC that can record to 3 media simultaneously costs about $4k. The input levels of all the inputs can be adjusted in software to whatever level you need.

Philip Perkins


That's fine Philip but I stand by my post. Bottom line: We had problems and it overheated in the summer weather. As for who's fault it is, I don't really care. I never said do not buy it, I said rent it first. Therefore, if it was our problem then he will find that out.

Jay

[philper]

That's fine Philip but I stand by my post. Bottom line: We had problems and it overheated in the summer weather. As for who's fault it is, I don't really care. I never said do not buy it, I said rent it first. Therefore, if it was our problem then he will find that out.

Jay

What do you mean by "overheated"? Did it shut down? What was the ambient temperature? Was it running in an enclosed bag on a hot day? I've had SD recorders get hot, but that never affected their operation. An inexperienced operator might think that something that actually was "cockpit error" was caused by heat, but in all the years of using the machines and in all the pages of SD's forum I've never heard of or seen a problem that was for sure attributable to heat with those recorders. That is NOT the case, by the way, with some other audio file recorders. SD does great phone support, I've called them several times from the set and gotten help right away. I'll bet your sound people would have had an easier time if they had asked SD for help.

Philip Perkins

[Kenn Michael]

I hear everything you're saying Jay, but I just got off working on a series that shot for 4 weeks up in Valencia, CA where the temp averaged 100 degrees everyday - indoors and outdoors (no air-conditioning for sound purposes) and the sound recordist was using the 744T. Never had a problem. The recordist was overheating, but never the recorder. Something was very wrong with the recorder your recordist was using.