4K Stock Libraries

[Mark Thorpe]

Hi Guys,
Just thought I'd chime in. Now I know we are all gonna be looking after and cuddling our footage, as and when the cams start rolling. That said my main intention will be to shoot for stock. Didn't wanna get jumped at the gun so I have now registered the domain: www.4koceanstock.com which will be the name attributed to the commercial library I am hoping to establish.

Initially I want to look at setting this up and finding the correct way to deliver the potential for clients to view, massively downrezzed, online footage clips prior to purchasing, similar to www.oceanfootage.com. Again this will initially be a representation of my work but in the future once I have established the site and service I would like to invite representation of other shooters of the Ocean environment in the service.

To expand on the theme I have also registered:

www.4knaturestock.com - For all things natural history
www.4kactionstock.com - For all things action sports / adrenalin related

Just thought I'd share it with you all to let you know that I plan to develop the potential of 4k Stock Libraries at the outset. The initial ocean site will be starting at a very, very basic level and there should be some web presence on that soon.

Hope all is well.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Sounds like a plan. If all goes well I will be shooting 4k stock at six National Parks in the western USA this summer. Perhaps it could find a home on 4knaturestock.com...

[Jared VanLeuven]

Sounds like I'll be bumping into you this summer, Blair. :)

[Michael Schrengohst]

It's gonna get crowed with RED users running around the world!
We are already established with a stock house and they are already setting up more servers to handle the influx of 4K footage....but I doubt they will put a lot of 4k footage on-line. They have already been selling footage to Nat Geo Channel and a bunch of the news stations that have been going HD.
My plan is to continue stock shooting and set-up for B-unit feature film shooting with the RED.....

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I plan to shoot stock as well. I haven't decided yet all the various ways I may try to sell/distribute what I shoot, but I will be looking into this more over the next few months. I will no doubt attempt to sell much directly through my own sites, but will probably have to link up with some of the larger more established stock houses in order to move a lot of footage.

[Jason Francois]

I think it sounds like a good idea.

I think I'm going to shoot 4k stock footage of other shooters shooting 4k with their RED cameras. :)

[Ralph Oshiro]

Hmmm . . . great minds think alike!

[Steve Gibby]

Very cool CamDiver…and a good business move.

The most valuable asset of any production company, big or small, is it's accumulated footage library, assuming that they hold copyright to the footage. If it's marketed correctly, it is a renewing resource - "The gift that keeps right on giving". I call it "mailbox money", because once you have it rolling for you, you get nice surprises regularly when you visit the mailbox - licensing checks.

For those who haven't made the move to license out their footage, here are the basics:

Representation
You can try to license out your own footage, using your web site, but be prepared for a ton of screening, logging, coordination, dubbing, re-sizing, storage, promoting, contracting (contracts need to airtight), and collection payments. To do it right and maximize the revenue potential of your library, it is a full time job. Remember this analogy: "If it’s fruit you’re after, a slice of watermelon is a lot more fruit than a whole grape!” The point being you may keep 100% of the revenue from your stock footage licensing if you do all the work by yourself, but that can be a lot less money for you than if you have a stock footage house represent you, let them do all the tasks I listed, and you simply get your “mailbox money”. That’s how I market my stock footage. It frees me up to go shoot more stock footage, and to do the many other production jobs I do. Think about it…you can easily lose money trying to save money.

Types of representation
Some stock houses insist on exclusive representation of your footage. If you agree to that, it better be with an established stock house who you know will push your footage – and I’d suggest no long contracts, but rather short renewable contracts. That way, if they don’t perform, you can bail out. Other stock houses are fine with non-exclusive representation, leaving you free to also have your footage marketed by other companies. That’s the path I have taken. I like the latitude to be represented by multiple companies if I choose. Read the fine print on contracts and make sure you understand everything on them. If you’re not experienced with contracts, having it read by an attorney is a good choice.

Representation rates/percentages
If you do some checking you’ll find a wide variety of percentages, ranging from 20% (you) 80% (them), to 50% (you) 50% (them). Usually the smaller companies will give you a better percentage – but they may also license less of your footage out.

Copyright
I can’t emphasis this enough – you want to retain copyright of your stock footage no matter what. Read the fine print of contracts! Your footage should be licensing out, not being sold.

Licensing fees
Licensees pay a fee for use of your footage that is based on the length of the clip, it’s format/resolution, it’s use, and the duration of the license. RED 4k and to a lesser extent 2k footage should command real good licensing rates. It will be super high resolution, and usually be used in high profile projects.

Royalty checks
Most stock footage agencies pay licensing fee checks within 30 days of shipping the footage to the licensee. Some pay within 2 weeks – even better for you.

Promotions
Stock footage houses, whether big or small need to promote themselves, your footage collections, and new collections coming online. Make sure you select a stock house that will seriously promote your footage. There are ones who just list it on web sites, and basically forget about it. Others aggressively advertise, distribute press releases, etc. You should ask your footage reps what subject matter and resolution of footage they feel will license the best – then shoot that. Everything licenses, but some genres license way more than others.

Summary
If you do it right, pay attention to contracts, choose good stock footage representatives, and shoot footage that licenses easily, then stock footage licensing can be a great revenue stream for any motion media shooter. I love shooting stock footage because I get to work alone…just me and my camera. I’m really happy with the stock house that represents my footage. They are establishing a specific footage bank of RED One collections, and the first footage will be promoted and marketed immediately after RED One starts to ship. They represent me on a non-exclusive basis, so I’ll also be looking for additional licensing avenues for my RED One footage – maybe CamDiver, Ralph Oshiro, Omen, and others!


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I hope this short primer helps some of you as you approach licensing out your RED One footage. If you do it right it may be one of the best business moves you’ll ever make, or have ever made. I’ll be happy to answer any further questions anyone has – just PM or email me.

Cheers!

[Mike Devlin]

Excellent info Gibby. I would be interested in any good (or bad) experience with particular stock footage houses. I have not seen anywhere that rates or reviews the them either, so any comments are helpful.

[Steve Gibby]

Sure thing Mike, I'll PM or email you some thoughts on that later today. Its 1:30am and time for me to get some sleep...

Cheers!

[Mark Thorpe]

Got all that covered Gibby and thanks for publishing these points for those who have yet to set up footage licensing options.

At the very outset I will be setting the site up to reflect my work. However depending on workload of both myself and any other shooters who could be interested in representation via my sites I will approach the topic of expansion at that time. What I can say though is that I will not be looking to take any ludicrous commissions from shooters, I've lived from stock footage for a while and understand that some companies really do take the piss when it comes to commission levels for stock licensing. I will be fair.

Forward thinking: Representation on my site will entail online biographies, images and an extensive listing of stock. Due to the nature of the imagery I will possibly be allowing each shooter to have a portfolio of say their ten best clips in varying themes, Macro, Wide, Ambient, etc etc. Thats my plan for the outset for my clips but this depending on initial market response will dictate as to whether I change that approach. I will then act as middle man for any discussions between relevant parties.

I've been researching contract guidelines for representation and will continue to do so until I feel I have a fair and straightforward contract which will offer people the confidence and peace of mind to be represented by the future service. These will become available for download via my sites as and when I am ready for expansion.

I may just be thinking out loud but this way at least you can see where I am coming from. Initially the 4koceanstock site will be very much oriented to my work but the whole appearance will change as and when things start moving.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Hrvoje Simic]

CamDiver's great move is a start.
This community will be able to produce huge amount of quality footage.

Gibby made a good point (as always), however, there are some other factors one needs to consider.
Redcode's 27MB/s will take 540 MB for a 20 second clip.
This means that terabytes of dedicated servers with very high bandwiths are needed to be able to have one large database.
The cost of such would affect the price of the service, which would affect interest.

For a while now I'm working on a solution which would enable us to connect all the future stock libraries, without the need for "competition". People interested in creating one, or the ones who already have - you can PM me for details.

[Jim Arthurs]

I'm no longer in the stock business, but had some fun back in the '90's.

I'd been shooting 35mm time-lapse cloud footage for a decade, and though others might be interested in it. I put together a CD filled with .jpg sequences and sold directly a volume called "Colorado Altitudes". Sold quite a few to After Effects folks, even though they had to jump through some hoops to use .jpg sequences back then. Took out an ad or two in DV, but word of mouth on the forums/mailing lists worked better. Had a credit card machine before I even had a personal credit card.

Got the attention of Adobe, who was starting a royalty free line of footage, sold it outright to them for good $$$. Since then, I've seen my clouds from that collection on many national spots like The Outback, Oil of Olay, the Grammys, the Country Music Awards, promos for shows on Fox, TNT, and NBC. Ironically, every shot in there was from the top of one hill east of town over the years. Covered in a sub-division now.

Adobe Image Club Graphics passed to Eyewire, which passed to Getty. I've got a storm footage collection with them that brings in monthly revenues for going on seven years. Also did two complete buy-out collections for London based Digital Vision of clouds and city time-lapse and did all the dust-busting for another 8 collections for their initial roll-out.

Last footage gathering I went on was to NY for four days of time-lapse in May of 2001. Didn't shoot ONE shot of the two towers, focused on the subways and Grand Central Station. Figured those amazing buildings would be around forever. If I don't have better instincts than that, I figured I should get out of the business.

It was a fun ride. Truly was a dream to reality project for me. More competition now I'd imagine, as everyone has a DSLR or an HDV camera. Seen tons of crappy collections from Artbeats shot on DV, not just their quality flagship film to HD products.

[Mark Thorpe]

Jim,
Nice to hear a success story, well done. I agree that if done correctly the income from licensing footage can be very welcome at times. With the competition increasing almost daily with new potential shooters joining the fray the ability to survive from licensing alone is not too much of a possibility these days. There are many other product arenas too which are only limited by one's imagination.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Hrvoje Simic]

Jim,
Nice to hear a success story, well done. I agree that if done correctly the income from licensing footage can be very welcome at times. With the competition increasing almost daily with new potential shooters joining the fray the ability to survive from licensing alone is not too much of a possibility these days. There are many other product arenas too which are only limited by one's imagination.

Cheers,
Mark.

IPTV boom will dramatically increase the need for larger amounts of footage.
My standpoint is that licesing footage should not be primary type of profit and I see it just as additional benefit, but it definitely has a bright future.

If you think of all the variations, types of shots, themes, compostions, geographic locations, interpretations, subjective feelings, and many other factors which define a video you might see that there is no competition.
Just options and variety. With quality in mind.
Competing would mean that everyone would be doing the same thing, for what I think won't be the case.
You will make a shot that no one could do exactly the same way and someone could choose yours over any others, because that is what he/she is looking for.

[Mark Thorpe]

Well Guys,
Here is the tentative first few pages of the planned site for my future underwater library. Very basic yet as I've only thrown about $200 at the site plus hosting for a year.

http://www.divejobs.net/4koceanstock/index.html

Could potentially be space for other wet shooters to develop a collaborative 4K stock service in the future if all goes well.

Cheers,
Mark.
P.S I obviously haven't published the site yet as it is just undergoing some minor adjustments, hence the reason for it being hidden within the confines of a friends existing site.

[Mark B.]

I'll be doing my own stock archive via the web as well, at http://www.RedMade.com, or at least that's the plan at this moment (chinka chinka chinka... Red piggy bank you sound a little empty!) The site doesn't have any content yet though, because I'm still deciding on who I'll be hosting it through.

I'll admit that the idea of becoming the central site for Red stock footage has crossed my mind (and apparently everyone else's). Anyone who gets a central Red stock footage site going will be making bank with almost no effort, even if they only take a "small" fee from each of the sales. That doesn't sit well with me though, money for nothing by taking a small percentage of other people's work. It's really good for one person but it's a little bad for everyone else. And why make things a little bad for everyone else... that's kind of selfish.

So if a group stock site was needed (and I'm not sure if it is needed at this point), I would rather it be just a very simple page that links to each stock site that's out there. Those links would jump to each person's own page, and then each person would handle the transaction with their own websites' credit card system (or whatever they want to do for payment methods). Each person would be responsible for their own website development and hosting costs that way, and it gets rid of any litigious associations to the other stock footage providers. Maybe there could be a common look and feel that would be developed, but in a way maybe that would be detrimental since part of the sales process is the presentation of the store front and standing out as being unique.

Hmmhmmhmm, I gotta think about that. Maybe I might end up building that link system myself... maybe. I hate doing a halfway job, so it'd take a bunch of my time to build it right. But I have been meaning to get back into web development, and I have to develop my website anyway... hmm... I'm definitely going to be pondering this one for the next couple of weeks.

[Mark B.]

If you think of all the variations, types of shots, themes, compostions, geographic locations, interpretations, subjective feelings, and many other factors which define a video you might see that there is no competition.
Just options and variety. With quality in mind.
Competing would mean that everyone would be doing the same thing, for what I think won't be the case.
You will make a shot that no one could do exactly the same way and someone could choose yours over any others, because that is what he/she is looking for.

I'd like to agree with you, and I do agree for certain subjects there's an almost limitless variety of footage to capture, but when it comes to landscapes I've seen way too many repetitive stock photos... there's a finite amount of geographic beauty in a given region, and if that's what the stockers are shooting then it's not going to be long until the footage gets really redundant. Even worse, most of that geographic beauty is getting trashed by housing developments and the only nice areas left are a paltry couple of national forests (which are also getting overcrowded with tourists as a result). Several other Red buyers have indicated that they'll be driving out of their state and into the state I live in so that they can capture footage of everything in my area. They didn't say it, but I suspect it's because their own states have been trashed and they don't have much to shoot anymore (I've driven through those states... bleak and boring!). Perhaps this is starting to get more into a rant about how disappointed I am in the city-planners that have messed up the U.S., or maybe it's my irritation of the over-population that's occurring on the planet. I don't know, but something about this situation bugs me.

One thing is for sure... America is definitely getting uglier.

[Steve Gibby]

Camdiver/Mark,

Nice job on the web site. A web site should be aesthetically pleasing, navigate easily, and hold visitors on-site for as long as possible. Your blog will help keep people there, but I'm sure you'll also be loading up video clips, frame grabs, and some more digital stills (like that great sunken plane pic!) as eye/mind candy. You may also want to include a more detailed description, on the Equipment page, of the RED One camera and related specific equipment that you will be upgrading to.

I think you're definitely on the right track with your concepts for stock footage and your new web site.

Cheers!

[Mark Thorpe]

Will do Gibby,
I'm actually formulating the Equipment page layout in Word before updating. I will be, as you mentioned, posting video stills / clips etc on the blog section once it gets to running smoothly.

Hey Lowkus, sorry if you are getting upset at the way the world is going but we all gotta face that fact too. Out here in the Pacific it may seem idyllic but there are social issues rising from overcrowding here too. Influences from the 'civilized' world are slowly rendering centuries old cultures and indigenous protocols obsolete. Its sad to see.

With regards to charging footage providers for the representation of their work I believe that to be only fair. If for any debilitating health reason I couldn't continue in my diving work I would then be compelled to work 100% in the development of the RED archives ideas. In order to pay for the administration of such a site / service I believe it only fair that the footage providers be the ones to pay for that and to contribute to financial recompense for the service provider personally. Also don't forget the amount of work that any stock agency does with regards to the marketing and promotion of its services, its a never ending commitment, a commitment that allows the shooters to keep on shooting.

There are some stock agencies out there who charge 40, 50, 60 and even 80% commission. That, I find just way too much of an insult to the shooter. IF I go that route to represent others I would go for a max commission rate of somewhere between 25 and 30%. Please also understand that I will only be representing very specific markets. Initially with 4kOceanStock I will only be looking to push 4K underwater stock. Later as time allows I will further develop the 4KNatureStock and 4KActionStock sites which I also own.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Finner]

Hi Mark,

I will be happy to have the stock footage company take there cut off the top and the percentage you mention sounds more then fair. The way I look at it is I don't want to spend my time running a stock footage website so if someone else does a good job of it and charges a fair amount more power to them. I will be doing a lot of mountain footage and if you are doing a good job of representing your sites I would be happy to have you represent some of my footage.

[Mark Thorpe]

I have never been driven by financial gain. The fact I can live from my passion as an underwater shooter is, for me, my nirvana. I have no needs for the trappings some people desire. I'm a simple person at the end of the day with only a few needs to keep me happy.

Once I can get some kind of direction from the web site I would like to think I could look at future representation relationships with others. Time will tell. Until then, keep up the shooting, amass that footage and do some good.

Wishing you all the best,
Mark.

[Steven Parker]

I am pretty sure I won't be shooting stock footage for stock footage's sake but I feel compelled to say a little something...

I shoot indie features, low budget things most people never see. On location, I find myself rolling footage of vistas and sunsets, moonrises, people moving about, little moments... because I am captivated by that moment. It's not for the project I'm on, it's a moment that grabs me, so I try to grab it, save it. Maybe it makes the cut, usually it doesn't. But I think as shooters we have a responsibility to capture all the beautiful - and even ugly - moments we can, because they are fleeting. They are real.

Lowkus, I share your pain at the industrialization of our world. I retch every time I fly into Denver, see those acres and acres of cookie-cutter houses creeping towards the Rockies. Every time I walk the tidepools around Big Sur there's more trash. It breaks my heart. So to me, at the very least, CamDiver will preserve the oceans as they are now. Others will preserve the mountains, forests, neighborhoods, deserts. May the gods forbid it, but it could be the final incriminating evidence of the destruction we despise... and may be the thing that helps us to stop it. Heavy and preachy, I know, but true.

Most, if not all of us, are freelancers, job to job, paycheck to paycheck. Many of us have talked about the concerns of making loan payments, etc, etc. I do not mean to diminish the necessity of making smart business decisions. But all of you, on every thread, and the RED team, are sharp, full of knowledge, unbelievable. This community is amazing and I think unprecedented... let's keep it that way: do what you love, and let the money come after.

[Steve Gibby]

If your heart is in your work, it will be reflected in the images you capture. Then if you do what you love well enough, and long enough, money will usually take care of itself...

Leave Walter Mitty as a James Thurber novel character...there's no need to dream about what you really want to do in life...get out and do it!

On the subject of environment, no doubt that the natural world is being strained by various factors. But, I still find extraordinary beauty in the natural world on a regular basis...and I document it for future generations to enjoy. In viewing a rose some will only see thorns, some will only see petals, and some will see both. I'm the third kind...I see both, but I put most of my creative energy toward recording images of the beauty in nature. I also document pollution though, so that I can donate those images to non-profits who are trying to protect the environment. I believe those of us who use the natural environment regularly, and are image-makers, have an obligation to give back to the natural environment. It’s simply good “karma”.

Beyond all its business uses, RED One will be a great new paintbrush for capturing images of nature.

The subject matter of stock footage can be almost anything. That said, if you're a "starving artist" you may want to discipline yourself to shoot a mixture of footage subjects. The kind of footage that will license well will free you up financially to have the time to shoot the kind you really love.

Bottom line: Do what you love to do…and using some business smarts can free you up to do what you really love to do.

[Hrvoje Simic]

I have never been driven by financial gain. The fact I can live from my passion as an underwater shooter is, for me, my nirvana. I have no needs for the trappings some people desire. I'm a simple person at the end of the day with only a few needs to keep me happy.




This community is amazing and I think unprecedented... let's keep it that way: do what you love, and let the money come after.


Beautiful. The greatest artwork can come only from that type of thinking.
I thank you guys for all the positive energy shared...

I believe I'm not the only one who appreciates

[Hrvoje Simic]

G. beat me to it....

That's the n'th time you summed it up, Gibby !!! :ranting2:

[Steve Gibby]

:weight_lift:

[Michael Schrengohst]

I have never been driven by financial gain. The fact I can live from my passion as an underwater shooter is, for me, my nirvana. I have no needs for the trappings some people desire. I'm a simple person at the end of the day with only a few needs to keep me happy.

Once I can get some kind of direction from the web site I would like to think I could look at future representation relationships with others. Time will tell. Until then, keep up the shooting, amass that footage and do some good.

Wishing you all the best,
Mark.

I had to jump in here....running a stock footage site is an all encompassing, beyond full-time, real job. If your desire is diving and shooting then running a stock footage site will blow that dream out of the water. It is one thing to rep your own footage but when you get hundreds of shooters involved and are dealing with tens of thousands of clips, servers, isp, web development, marketing costs which never seem to stop, well maybe you get the idea.
And where you are located seems like it would be hard to get a T1 or FIOS.
Something you will have to have to compete. And can you get a FED EX out
overnite to anywhere in the world? And what about your post set-up?
You will have to be cross-platform and be able to deliver in a multitude of formats. When a customer calls to complain or order product will you be there? Are you planning on hiring a full-time tech so you can devote 100% to sales? I think offering 4K footage to the feature film industry would be great.
I am sure some high-end corporate clients might dabble in 4K, but HD is just now getting started. I would like to see what RED shooters might think is a fair price for offering RED footage. I know a few of the larger houses are interested in offering 4K....but these are the ones that are paying 20%.....

[Mark Thorpe]

Hi Red Guy,
All points are true and valid. My current position sees me working in the tourism dive industry to supply an imaging need for visiting divers to Palau, an island nation in the western Pacific which also happens to be one of the leading dive destinations on the planet. Now whilst you would imagine there to be a plethora of similar services in such a place there are only two real shops to speak of supplying these services. Services such as camera rentals, repairs, digital downloading to CD's, filming people to prepare souvenir DVD's, merchandise sales etc etc, you get the gist. Anyway, I have been doing this for the past 12 or so years in varying locations. Whilst it pays OK and I can make good coin at the seasons peak I am now looking to move on with RED. I believe the time has come for me to take the Bull by the horns and see where I can go at the top level. This means for me a massive learning curve but at the age of 41 I am happy to make that commitment and go for it.

As such I have been thinking of relocation for the past six months or so as I realize I need to be somewhere that offers a higher degree of technological backup if I want to see my work take off. I will need faster communication with the rest of the world, overnight Fed Ex, UPS, whatever.

So far as the workload. As with any business I think it comes down to task management. I don't think its impossible to be able to continue with my work and to develop any kind of stock agency at the same time. Remember I only dive daily here to appease that demand by tourist divers. Even though in the future I plan to shoot for stock with RED that will follow the plan of stock shooting sessions at any given location with specific species, targets in mind for up to one month at a time.

I understand fully the implications of what is required to run a successful stock agency and believe myself to have that ability without any question. I will start as I mentioned, to build up my own site, and then branch out to look at further representation.

Jim is not the only one around here who likes a challenge :sarcasm:

Cheers,
Mark.
P.S I don't think there are going to be hundreds of underwater RED shooters. I will not make false promises of representation to anyone. I would only be willing to represent those with a proven track record. The select few. If they have their own representation and are happy with that then so be it but I will be looking at networking more to these individuals in the future.

[Ken Corben]

Camdiver

Sign me up for your concept...

Sharky

[Mark Thorpe]

When the time comes I'll be honored to be able to include your work.

P.S really nice musical concept regarding Seaflix. I have always made these little musical shorts which I also offer as Bonus Features on divers DVD's here in Palau. I have one, currently being shown on the Ocean Channel, called 'When Mantas Dance' which has actually generated enough cash to pay for the VX1000 system I filmed it on.

I'm also starting out on another idea of mine, musically oriented and have the backing of a musical group signed to Warner. Basically entails a Bruckheimeresque approach to editing for the pilot. Should be a blast.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Michael Schrengohst]

Hi Red Guy,

I understand fully the implications of what is required to run a successful stock agency and believe myself to have that ability without any question. I will start as I mentioned, to build up my own site, and then branch out to look at further representation.

Jim is not the only one around here who likes a challenge :sarcasm:

Cheers,
Mark.
P.S I don't think there are going to be hundreds of underwater RED shooters. I will not make false promises of representation to anyone. I would only be willing to represent those with a proven track record. The select few. If they have their own representation and are happy with that then so be it but I will be looking at networking more to these individuals in the future.

Excellent, I know of some underwater shooters not happy with their present deals. When you are ready to "dive-in" let us know what develops!

[Ken Corben]

Camdiver,

Cheers, thanks for the compliment on the Seaflix DVD's.

If you want a good laugh check out "Echolocation" at this link:

http://kennethcorben.com/echolocation.html
You need quicktime 7 to view the clip.

This was a concept I tested for kids that I love. Executives passed on it I think because it was not "slick enough" and has no built in toy product empire.

[Mark B.]

Hmm... I've been thinking it over and will concede that a central stock footage site probably will have to take a percentage of proceeds. I was thinking it would be self-sustaining by it's mass, rather than relying on marketing, but that's probably an unrealistic expectation. And since marketing costs, then I guess that money's gotta come from somewhere.

[Mark Thorpe]

Camdiver,

Cheers, thanks for the compliment on the Seaflix DVD's.

If you want a good laugh check out "Echolocation" at this link:

Hey Ken,
That is wild, love the puppets.

RED Guy, The stock endeavors will be for 4k footage mainly from RED, if your buddies fit that bill and are proven then no worries.

Lowkus, yep its a costly thing but if done right can be a success. Taking it slow to find the right model at the outset will be my chosen approach.

Cheers,
Mark.

[WesG]

Been following this thread and it all sounds great.

I would actually be concerned about a stock footage site that didn't charge a commission. If I'm to submit my work to be represented by someone I expect them to be out there marketing and promoting their site in order to drum up business. Otherwise I'm not going to sell much :)

A commission is essential to help cover the costs of this work and the huge back end that would be involved in getting a good stock business up and running.

Can anyone point to professional high end stock footage businesses that provide a good working example????
I'd love to have a click around and see how they work, what they charge etc
Not istockvideo but more premium material

PS - Sharkguy - that's a classic vid!!! lol - must have been fun to put together

[Nick Shaw]

Look at http://www.getty-images.com/ if you want to see how the world's biggest do it

[Michael Schrengohst]

This footage was shot on HDCAM,
rates are Australian....
Does that = the dollar??
CamDiver how does your footage compare?

http://www.aliensofthesea.com/Demo/

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yikes!

What's with the transfer rates on their site??? I was only getting about 3KB/sec download speed and I'm on an 8Mbps connection here. I'm patient, but not that patient. Maybe I'll try again later -- that cuttlefish mating video looks promising. ;)

[Mark Thorpe]

My pick of the bunch would be:

www.oceanfootage.com
www.getty-images.com
www.naturefootage.com

These are for delivery and professional aesthetics. There are a whole bunch of others out there but these kind of set the mark.

Cheers,
Mark.

[PaulClements]

My pick of the bunch would be:

www.oceanfootage.com
www.getty-images.com
www.naturefootage.com

These are for delivery and professional aesthetics. There are a whole bunch of others out there but these kind of set the mark.

Cheers,
Mark.
Are you thinking of using Footage Search for your website Mark? I found it from your links for ocean/naturefootage.com. Link here (http://www.footagesearch.com/home/overview.htm)

[Ken Corben]

It's always nice to see an envelope from Getty Images in the mail. Like most big companies, there's a large lag time from sale to royalty payment. I think that's what Mark's concept can beat - communication with clients and reduced payment time.

I will be heading out to film white sharks at 4K red raw 60 FPS as soon as I get my camera. My 35 mm 48 FPS white shark footage sells over and over and...Hopefully this will be a big seller for Mark's company concept.

[Jim Arthurs]

It's always nice to see an envelope from Getty Images in the mail.

I joke with my wife that my monthly Getty check my "anti-welfare" check.

[Mark Thorpe]

Hi Paul,
I think inclusion in the Footage Search directories and data banks are potentially one of the most important aspects of marketing in the stock industry. There are other trade outlets which I will keep to myself as there are a lot of others here also looking to do the same stock gig but hey, I ain't gonna spill my whole Orange Cart here right...........:wink:

Sharkguy, you got a place on that boat available? I think I'm gonna be busy with other stuff though.......secret projects, dontcha just love 'em. But I will be out there looking to initially get the big animal stuff nailed. Will get mantas here in Palau and Yap, then on to reef shark species, again here seeing as we got a bunch, and then possibly Cocos for other sharky stock stuff. Love sharks, just love ,em, after all they sell big time. Along with whales and dolphins.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Phil Becque]

Sharks, Rays, Turtles, Whales and Dolphins - you guys get to hang out with all the most interesting creatures don't you? Tell me - I've always wanted to know. Have you ever seen an angry Turtle ?

Thanks, Phil

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I tripped over a turtle in Hawaii once... The turtle didn't seem to care, he didn't even move.

[Mark Thorpe]

Sharks, Rays, Turtles, Whales and Dolphins - you guys get to hang out with all the most interesting creatures don't you? Tell me - I've always wanted to know. Have you ever seen an angry Turtle ?

Thanks, Phil

Hey Phil,
Check out post #50 in the Underwater Bubble Blowers Group in the Red Users Groups section of the site. There you will see the image of a Hawksbill Turtle issuing me, or my camera at least, with a territorial yawn. Guess I got too close.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Phil Becque]

I tripped over a turtle in Hawaii once... The turtle didn't seem to care, he didn't even move.

Tee Hee - maybe he was sleeping. Either that or a totalled turtle!

Best regards, Phil

[Phil Becque]

Hey Phil,
Check out post #50 in the Underwater Bubble Blowers Group in the Red Users Groups section of the site. There you will see the image of a Hawksbill Turtle issuing me, or my camera at least, with a territorial yawn. Guess I got too close.

Cheers,
Mark.

Well that's an amazing shot Mark - congratulations - I can't imagine how difficult it is to get that sort of shot. So is that turtle talk for 'piss off' ?? I've never thought of turtles as being territorial - there's no reason why they shouldn't be of course? It just that they always look so placid.

Sadly I can't go diving because I have a medical condition - so I do envy the diving group on this forum - I've seen some spectacular shots - have you got any short movie clips I can download - just for a quick squint?

Cheers mate! Phil

[Ken Corben]

, you got a place on that boat available? I think I'm gonna be busy with other stuff though.......secret projects, dontcha just love 'em. But I will be out there looking to initially get the big animal stuff nailed. Will get mantas here in Palau and Yap, then on to reef shark species, again here seeing as we got a bunch, and then possibly Cocos for other sharky stock stuff. Love sharks, just love ,em, after all they sell big time. Along with whales and dolphins.

Cheers,
Mark.

Always a spot for a fellow red underwater shooter on any of my non-client expeditions.

I've got Africa for whites, tiger sharks and whale sharks on the to do list as well as Mexico for blue and gray whales, Bahamas for dolphins, Silverbanks for humbacks, Scotland for basking sharks and...damn I wish I was just independently wealthy

[Steve Gibby]

Psst...don't tell anyone, but I'm an eccentric hundredaire...

[Ken Corben]

Psst...don't tell anyone, but I'm an eccentric hundredaire...

Is that a fruit of the loom product?

Keep 'em coming Gibby - everyone here appreciates your sharing, insight and wisdom.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Tee Hee - maybe he was sleeping. Either that or a totalled turtle!

In April, the turtles come onto the shore in large numbers - laying eggs and all that. They sleep on the beaches and rocky shorelines, sometimes they venture up into the grass - even at the resorts with hundreds of people. They're a protected species, you're not supposed to touch them or interfere with them in any way. I was with a group of guys coming back from a night dive and we were running gear from the boat up to the van. I was aware of a few turtles around us, but didn't see the one right in front of me. I tripped over it. Ooops. After that, everyone noted its position and proceeded to walk around it. :detective2:

[Mark Thorpe]

Well that's an amazing shot Mark - congratulations - I can't imagine how difficult it is to get that sort of shot. So is that turtle talk for 'piss off' ?? ...........

Sadly I can't go diving because I have a medical condition - so I do envy the diving group on this forum - I've seen some spectacular shots - have you got any short movie clips I can download - just for a quick squint?

Cheers mate! Phil


Hey phil,
Appreciate the mailed jokes, sides were hurting there for a mo. Thanks for the words regarding the turtle shot. Any of the underwater shooters here will tell you that it's all just a matter of time in the water. I must have filmed clips of hundreds if not thousands of turtles over the years. Every once in a while everything, light, composition, behavior and conditions fall together perfectly allowing us to "paint with light" the images and situations we experience.

You can check out www.ocean.com who show a couple of my short films online. There is one called "A Rainbow Colored Fish" which is a behavioral study of Mandarinfish. The second is called "When Mantas Dance" and is an underwater ballet featuring Manta Rays filmed over 3 years when I lived on a small island in Micronesia called Yap.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Phil Becque]

Psst...don't tell anyone, but I'm an eccentric hundredaire...

Ha ! yes - like me and somewhat unfortunately - you have literally hundreds of dollars at your disposal :)

[Phil Becque]

Hey phil,
Appreciate the mailed jokes, sides were hurting there for a mo. Thanks for the words regarding the turtle shot. Any of the underwater shooters here will tell you that it's all just a matter of time in the water. I must have filmed clips of hundreds if not thousands of turtles over the years. Every once in a while everything, light, composition, behavior and conditions fall together perfectly allowing us to "paint with light" the images and situations we experience.

You can check out www.ocean.com who show a couple of my short films online. There is one called "A Rainbow Colored Fish" which is a behavioral study of Mandarinfish. The second is called "When Mantas Dance" and is an underwater ballet featuring Manta Rays filmed over 3 years when I lived on a small island in Micronesia called Yap.

Cheers,
Mark.

Hi Mark,

Glad you liked the Peter Kay jokes.

I've just watched the two movies from ocean.com - what can I say - brilliant, stunning, and very moving. I'm not sure what's more impressive - the images themselves - or the effort and patience that goes into capturing them.

There's a Buddhist principle that you may have heard of called 'oneness of self and environment'. I really think you were living that principle while you were capturing these lovingly delicate shots over such a long period. Not just immersed in water, but also inextricably connected with the complex and subtle lives of your chosen subjects. It's almost as though they wanted you to get to know them before they would let you photograph them? And in my book, the fact that you took the time, the trouble, and the effort, well that's really beautiful.

Well done !! Well done !!

All the best, Phil

[Mark Thorpe]

Thanks Phil,
Kind words which I really do appreciate. I love my job, love the interaction with Nature and the richness of life it embroils in me. I consider myself to be very fortunate in so much that I have found my peace and love that it also allows me the opportunity to make a living from it.

The principle of 'oneness of self and environment' is a profoundly beautiful concept.

Thanks again.
Mark.

[Ken Corben]

The principle of 'oneness of self and environment' is a profoundly beautiful concept.

Here, Here...When one looks into the eye of a 100+ year old right whale at a distance of a couple feet I think the term "religious experience" is clearly redefined.

Great Work Mark

[Mark Thorpe]

Whether its a Right Whale, Manta Ray, Turtle, Eagle Ray or whatever there is something amazing when we are so close as to peer into the eye of our subjects. I'm not one to 'blow my own trumpet' when it comes to having the ability to be able to approach animals as part of my job. Standing back and just watching their attitude and body language before I start my approaches allows me to get some great footage.

All marine creatures are aware of our presence before we even see them. In reality we are so damn clumsy and noisy 'down there' that we send shock waves with every movement. I firmly believe that they allow us to approach them based on our displays through our approach methods. That is they set their own distance and comfort levels with regards to our proximity to them based on our movements etc.

On the occasions where we get to make eye to eye contact its as if the animal is studying us as opposed to the opposite. They seem equally fascinated by us as we are of them. Its such an amazing experience to have a giant Manta Ray give you the once over, you can see its eye moving as it scans you, same with Whales and Turtles etc. I get this very humbling feeling in their presence.

Animals certainly deserve much more respect than we offer them these days.

Cheers,
Mark.