In camera lattitude limiting

[Justin Anderson]

Can we limit the latitude in camera if we want to a certain stop range? Let's say I wanted more of a DV look.



Also I haven't been sure on this, but can white balance be adjusted in camera?

[Häakon]

I think there are plenty of other cameras available on the market if you're after a "DV look." :)

[Justin Anderson]

I think there are plenty of other cameras available on the market if you're after a "DV look." :)

They don't shoot in 4k...:cool:

[Rob Lohman]

Yes to whitebalance

[Graeme Nattress]

Sure, you can program in a whacked out curve that will crush the life out of your image, but as always, you're best shooting RAW and doing it properly in post.

Graeme

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Actually theoretically yes to both with the same answer:

See: LUT.

Edit: Damn you Graeme, being 5 seconds faster!

[Graeme Nattress]

Oops. I'll have to be slower next time and let you do my work for me :-)

Graeme

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Our timing was most improbable. No reply for over an hour and then two within about 15 seconds that are exactly the same.

[Stephen Williams]

Yes to whitebalance

Hi Rob,

Have you tested filtering to achieve white balance?

Stephen

[Rob Lohman]

I haven't done any testing with the camera's or done any shooting and so on. I'm totally focussed on the post workflow and software needed for that. Sometimes I'm answering questions I also happen to know the answer to :)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Question in relation to Stephen's question:
Has the native color temperature of the chip been ascertained yet?

[Stephen Williams]

Question in relation to Stephen's question:
Has the native color temperature of the chip been ascertained yet?

Hi Gavin,

Thank you for translating my question into a better form.

Stephen

[Justin Anderson]

Question in relation to Stephen's question:
Has the native color temperature of the chip been ascertained yet?

I remember someone(important) saying that it was set to 5000K.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we wanted to capture the right balance in camera then shouldn't we be able to use optical WB filters?

[Poi Boy]

Why would you white balance with filters ? raw files don't have a temp. you set the temp to what you want.
Aloha
-A

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Raw files have a temp.

[Poi Boy]

I guess my point is that the temp is irrelevant because you can set it to whatever you want and the result is far superior to anything you would do in front of the lens.
Aloha
-A

[Stuart English]

All sensors should have a reference color temperature, i.e one that they respond "best" at in terms of color balance or signal to noise ratio, or as with ENG one selected for the use of standardized optical and electronic filters.

With Mysterium we use 5,000 Kelvin as a primary reference temperature and compensate the RAW data from this reference point in post (using REDCINE) and/or in camera (for RGB recording, viewfinder and 4:2:2 monitor outputs)

Any values calculated in-camera are tagged as metadata with RAW recordings and may be used as a first pass value in REDCINE. Of course you can change this to your own taste - this flexibility being one of the great advantages of a RAW workflow.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I guess my point is that the temp is irrelevant because you can set it to whatever you want and the result is far superior to anything you would do in front of the lens.
Aloha
-A

Why would an optical filter produce worse results than mucking with the digital values?

That's like saying "you'll get the best color from grading not lighting" isn't it?

[Justin Anderson]

Why would an optical filter produce worse results than mucking with the digital values?

That's like saying "you'll get the best color from grading not lighting" isn't it?

yes...:D

[Stephen Williams]

Why would you white balance with filters ? raw files don't have a temp. you set the temp to what you want.
Aloha
-A

Hi,

Without some time playing with a camera I can't answer that. However last week I was shooting with a Viper, by adding a 30 magenta filter I was able to get extra dynamic range. (The green channel clips about 1 stop before red). I also used a 1/2 CTB on tungsten lights, then the filmstreem output was correctly balanced just low contrast.

Last month I shot with the green bias, throughout the shoot the agency kept asking about the green. After the pictures were graded they said " What happened to all that green, we like the look" LOL:)

Stephen

[Graeme Nattress]

Differential clipping of channels is interesting. It will happen to different channels under different lighting conditions. It's not always going to be the case that one clips before the other.

Then you have two choices:

1) balance them with a filter in front of the lens
This gives best non-colour-distorted highlights dynamic range

2) balance them in software
Gives greater dynamic range than 1) above if you can a) accept mis-coloured highlights that have more detail in them and b) deal with said miscoloured highlights in post.

The choice is yours.

Graeme

[Matthew Greene]

Graeme, I don't understand... by using an optical filter to even out the clip point on all channels aren't you actually maximizing dynamic range instead of limiting it?

[Steve Gibby]

Shooters who are used to an in-field workflow where they balance for color at the image acquisition stage can approach it the same way with RED One if they choose. (the first option Graeme outlined)

Alternately, anyone using RED One can opt to shoot RAW and balance using software in post. (the second option Graeme outlined).

Most of us have been used to setting the parameters of color at the acquisition stage for motion images. Those who have transitioned from still film photography to using a DSLR and shooting RAW will already be used to option #2 that Graeme has posted. He has also mentioned that the RED One/RAW workflow will be remarkably similar to the DSLR/RAW workflow. Those who feel more comfortable balancing for color at the footage acquisition stage have that option especially when shooting RGB with RED One - but if you do, then you don't have the post-production flexibility (including color) you would have if you had shot in RAW.

RED One is about flexibility and options...

[Stephen Williams]

) deal with said miscoloured highlights in post.

The choice is yours.

Graeme

Hi Graeme,

I find that once the highlights have clipped, the results look ugly whatever is done to them. Better not to clip them IMHO.

Stephen

[Graeme Nattress]

Sure, best not to clip them, but it's going to happen.

In, say, Adobe RAW converter for instance, I can rescue clipped highlights to an extent as the non-clipped channels give detail at the expense of colour quality.

Either way, you get the full dynamic range of the sensor, but if you don't mind the colour shift (which can sometimes be mild and non-distracting) you can scrape an extra stop.

Graeme

[Stephen Williams]

Sure, best not to clip them, but it's going to happen.

In, say, Adobe RAW converter for instance, I can rescue clipped highlights to an extent as the non-clipped channels give detail at the expense of colour quality.

Either way, you get the full dynamic range of the sensor, but if you don't mind the colour shift (which can sometimes be mild and non-distracting) you can scrape an extra stop.

Graeme


Hi Graeme,

I think that is the one reason film will be here for a few years.

Stephen

[Graeme Nattress]

Stephen, given that DSLRs have rapidly overtaken 35mm stills in both quality and sales......

[Evin Grant]

There are many things my D2x can do my F5 couldn't. If all I have to do get the benifit is protect my highlights, it's a fair trade.

[Stephen Williams]

Stephen, given that DSLRs have rapidly overtaken 35mm stills in both quality and sales......


Hi Graeme,

DSLR's have a workflow advantage. Many wedding photographers still use 35mm film for its extended dynamic range.

I accept that DSLR's have overtaken 35mm film in Sales but not Quality.

FWIW Kodak sales of motion picture film has been rising, in both 2004 & 2005 they sold more than ever before. Results for 2006 are not available!

Stephen

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Speaking from my limited digital experience (compared to film (which is ironic since I spend most of my time in the post world, I guess I'm a hypocrit)) I've had a lot of problems with color balancing extremes. An example would be shooting a shot that I want relatively neutral at night under a sodium vapor street lamp. In any instance where color is greater than 2,000 kelvin off, the digital color balance usually results in a great deal of ugly, desaturated colors and a significant increase in noise, almost like I underexposed by 1 or 2 stops. Which actually is what's happening, but in order to expose for the blues and greens in said example the reds would clip. It's a no win situation with a digital color temp.

[Graeme Nattress]

Colour balancing issues are moot when you deal with RAW though.

Graeme

[Ruairi Robinson]

Hi Graeme,

I find that once the highlights have clipped, the results look ugly whatever is done to them. Better not to clip them IMHO.

Stephen

Amen to that.

[Poi Boy]

I did it in front of the lens for 17 years and at the chip for 9 years and 99% of the time it is better at the chip.
Aloha
-A

[Evin Grant]

I have had over 10 years shooting film and the last 5 shooting DSLRs and the DSLRs offer by far more options for creative control and flexibility. You can hold your highlights if you know how to porperly expose. Fill ratio is also a very useful technique in this vain. However, even given uncontrolable lighting conditions I would gladly take a RAW digital file over the finest grain negative. An example...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/318377489_78fe8268ac.jpg
This is from a single exposure D2x RAW capture. Of course there is photoshop work here but the point is the fidelity of the information.

[Emanuel A.]

Fine tread over here. And a finest example of the photography art, Evin.

[Graeme Nattress]

Superb Evin!

Graeme

[Obin Olson]

Thank you Evin, I agree. Once I got my 1ds Canon I was and am happy, it was the crop factor that killed me for years. I never look at camera mags anymore. why upgrade? does it really get much better then full frame DSLR RAW?

[Graeme Nattress]

I personally don't mind the typical DSLR crop factor too much, as I generally shoot macro or telephoto, where the crop factor helps a bit, not hinders. But the real thing, as mentioned by Obin above, is RAW, and how utterly awesome it is.

Graeme

[Andrew Benz]

Evin, that is beautiful. When I grow up...

[Evin Grant]

Thanks guys, I've been working on a very contrasty style using RAW digital capture for about three years now. Obin, full frame is great for teles but very demanding on wide glass. I tested the Canons but found the Nikon D2x to have the best tonal range (Albiet noisest above 800 ISO too) for my style of shooting. Also the DX Nikkors 12-24mm and 18-200mm are phenominal, and very portable for such a range and quality. Honestly I didn't believe all the hype about the 18-200 until I shot one, it's scary how sharp that lens is even wide open in the corners. The VR makes it possible to shoot handheld ISO 200 even at deep dusk.

[Stephen Williams]

Honestly I didn't believe all the hype about the 18-200 until I shot one, it's scary how sharp that lens is even wide open in the corners. The VR makes it possible to shoot handheld ISO 200 even at deep dusk.

Hi Evin,

Pleased to hear it, I've had one on order locally for 6 weeks, should have ordered from Hong Kong on Ebay!

Stephen

[Joe Carney]

Well, at least I'm glad I got my wife a Canon EOS XTi for Christmas. She has a natural gift for composition and I think she can grow into this camera. I was worried it was maybe too much camera for her, but she is picking it up fast.
Now to figure out which software to get, besides just Photoshop. (Wndows based for the time being)

Joe C.

[Graeme Nattress]

Photoshop's RAW conversion is great, and the new tools in CS3 are pretty cool. I'd say that you probably don't need much more than Photoshop until you get into asset management types of apps, and bridge can do a lot there too.

Graeme

[Joe Carney]

Thanks Graeme.

[Graeme Nattress]

And, of course, learn the power of RAW. My friend Michael Reichmann http://www.luminous-landscape.com/ has some great articles on such topics that could be of help.

Graeme

[Andrew Benz]

And, of course, learn the power of RAW. My friend Michael Reichmann http://www.luminous-landscape.com/ has some great articles on such topics that could be of help.

Graeme
Thanks Graeme, this site has been very help to me since I am a RAW novice.