Help, need a .9mm allen key in New York [Archive]

I Bloom

10-20-2007, 06:21 PM

We have a desperate need to loosen the locking collar on our PL mount after it got stuck tonight. Unfortunately we can't get the tool we need on such short notice. And we are shooting again tommorow morning.

We need a .9 mm allen key, which is smaller than you will normally find on an allen key set, in a hardware store or at radio shack.

We need a hero Reduser in NYC to help us find this tool. We will travel anywhere in the city at any time to use it.

Thanks,
IBloom
646-XXX-XXXX
336-XXX-XXXX

Eirik Tyrihjel

10-20-2007, 06:27 PM

Maybe you should call the good people at http://www.offhollywoodstudios.com/
Good luck!

Jarred Land

10-20-2007, 06:34 PM

I know they have them heh heh heh

Brent J. Craig

10-20-2007, 06:36 PM

It's a pretty standard tool for camera assistants that work with Arri cameras. That might be a good place to look.

Jay A. Kelley

10-20-2007, 06:36 PM

Jarred, does RED sell a set of tools to access every needed screw on RED? This could be a good thing to avoid such issues

Also, if we don't want the CD card module, can a plate be put there instead until later?

Jay

Mark L. Pederson

10-20-2007, 06:54 PM

We have a desperate need to loosen the locking collar on our PL mount after it got stuck tonight. Unfortunately we can't get the tool we need on such short notice. And we are shooting again tommorow morning.

We need a .9 mm allen key, which is smaller than you will normally find on an allen key set, in a hardware store or at radio shack.

We need a hero Reduser in NYC to help us find this tool. Someone who repairs watches or eyeglasses might have it. We will travel anywhere in the city at any time to use it.

Thanks,
IBloom
646-257-2462
336-986-0663

I'll call you in 20 minutes -

I Bloom

10-20-2007, 06:57 PM

I'll call you in 20 minutes -
Beautiful.

I Bloom

10-20-2007, 07:21 PM

By the way, the camera rocks. More on this, in a week or so, after my hands stop shaking.

And in case you aren't an Arri camera assistant, go treat yourself to a .9mm allen key.

I Bloom

10-20-2007, 08:01 PM

Ok, hold the phone, Mark doesn't actually have it. Sorry Jarred.

I need to renew the call for the .9mm allen key. Hero I know you are out there!

IBloom

Jeff Kilgroe

10-20-2007, 08:15 PM

jaadgy akanni

10-20-2007, 08:16 PM

I'm sure I have it among all these allen keys I have. Come get it. I'm on 141 street and Broadway. Email me at Jinxmedo@yahoo.com if you're picking it up or sending someone.

I Bloom

10-20-2007, 08:25 PM

jaadgy can you give me a ring. 336.XXX.XXXX This is a special allen key, we've looked on many standard sets in many stores including the 3 that are in my personal kit.

IBloom

I Bloom

10-20-2007, 08:28 PM

Wow, Ian... Wish I could help, but the logistics of getting one from Denver to Brooklyn at this hour on a weekend doesn't look good at all. Have you tried any specialty tool stores in the area? How about shops that specialize in watches or jewelry repair?

Jeff, I'd do the same for you. I think this would be no problem during the week, but Saturday night and sunday morning... Fogetaboudit.

IBloom

jaadgy akanni

10-20-2007, 08:29 PM

jaadgy can you give me a ring. 336.986.0663 This is a special allen key, we've looked on many standard sets in many stores including the 3 that are in my personal kit.

IBloom

Why's your area code 336, isn't that N. Carolina?

I Bloom

10-20-2007, 08:32 PM

Why's your area code 336, isn't that N. Carolina?

Same cell phone number, different life. Long story.

jbeale

10-20-2007, 09:25 PM

If you're really in desperate straits, it is possible to make a smaller allen key from a larger key using a file, and some patience. Or with less patience, a grinder, but you'd need very steady hands.

Jeff Kilgroe

10-20-2007, 09:50 PM

Might not be a bad solution in a pinch. Common hardware stores should have allen keys as small as 3~5mm. I'd go pick up 1 or 2 of those and use a small grinder like a Dremel tool to cut it down. I'd even make my own out of a wire coat hanger if I were desperate enough.

Ian, after this situation resolves itself, post here or let me know. I can remove your phone numbers where they were quoted and from your original post if needed -- if you don't want them floating around.

Keith Nealy

10-20-2007, 10:06 PM

Ian,
Isn't B&H open on Sunday morning?
they might have it.

Making one is a good option. You may have to replace the screws later but that's a small price to pay for relief.

good luck.

Keith

I Bloom

10-20-2007, 10:09 PM

jbeale

10-20-2007, 10:19 PM

If you're going to grind your own, I'd suggest try to start with an allen key or other hard steel. A plain steel wire, coathanger etc. might break off when you torque it and if the tip jams in the screwhead, that leaves you worse off than before.

Jarred Land

10-20-2007, 10:30 PM

what is happening here is really incredible. Seeing you guys go out of your way to help each other is what the Red community is all about.

Thank you all... im gonna hafta find a way to return all this good will.

I Bloom

10-20-2007, 11:18 PM

I also want to thank everyone.

Unfortunately we have yet to lay hands on the tool. Unless we magically get this mount fixed in the morning, I'm sad to say we have to switch to a different format.:sick:

If you think you can help please give us a call.

Ibloom

Dave Valiket

10-20-2007, 11:34 PM

First, you need access to a grinder. Get a small straight blade screwdriver, like one for working on electronics (with a bigger one you need to grind more). Grind the screwdriver down so it is still tapered like a straight blade screwdriver but small enough that the very end starts in the hex, at the opposing corners, but gets tighter as you push the screwdriver in deeper. This should turn it out. You may need to tap it in so it gets stuck in the corners of the hex then turn it.

I hope that helps.

David Cubbage

10-21-2007, 03:54 AM

I wouldn't advise you to try and make a substitute allen key. 0.9mm is very small and you will most likely damage the hexigon socket head. Once that happens you will have a devil of a job to get the screw out to replace it apart from drilling it out, and because these type of screws are normally hardened and tempered, drilling such a small hole in the centre of the screw is almost impossible without the right machinery.
Are there any engineering workshops near you because they would most likely have a complete set of allen keys for maintenance? I am sure they would help you out if you popped in with the camera.

Once you're sorted, a good industrial engineering suppliers is the place to buy any tools you will need to keep in your kit. As an engineer I won't buy tools unless they are the best quality. Most tools you buy from general stores are not much good for continuous use.

I have a set that goes down to 0.7mm but I live in the UK so it's not much help but I am sure if you can find an engineering workshop somewhere locally, they will have the right tool.

Good luck!
David

Bret Weeks

10-21-2007, 06:01 AM

Doesn't CSC or another camera house have an emergency line? It would probably end up costing a couple of bucks to have them open-

Or just start dialing NYC camera assistants out of the film book till you find one -

like I said, it might cost a couple of bucks, but if you're still stuck-

good luck-

bw

Jay A. Kelley

10-21-2007, 06:58 AM

So that our friend Ibloom does not suffer in vain, I think it's important that we all inventory every single needed tool for accessing and working with RED.
Anyone else agree?

I hope he had a miracle and got what he needed.

Jay

Jeremy Hughes

10-21-2007, 07:06 AM

Maybe you could get another screw and solder it to the screw you're taking out. Just put some foil down around the screw so it doesn't stick to anything else. Then you can use a screw driver (or an allen key that you have; depending on what kind of screw you use) to unscrew it. Such a tiny screw though.

So what's your progress report?

jaadgy akanni

10-21-2007, 07:56 AM

I'm sorry to inform that Vladimir was here with the camera and we tried all my allen wrenches to no avail. As thin as mine were, the one on the camera mount is even thinner, so thin I couldn't believe my eyes. I was so sad to know that the guys had to opt for another camera just 'cause of that missing allen wrench. I'm still trying to look among my things to see if I can still save the day. On a happy note, I finally got to see the camera and touch it-oh she so damn sexy, that little minx! I'm in love...lol

Adrian T.

10-21-2007, 08:52 AM

So that our friend Ibloom does not suffer in vain, I think it's important that we all inventory every single needed tool for accessing and working with RED.
Anyone else agree?

Agree. Let's make a list of all the tools.

Jeff Kilgroe

10-21-2007, 09:00 AM

I know it's Sunday and that throws a wrench into things, but... I'm still betting a jeweler or watchmaker will have the right tool.

Too bad they had to switch to another camera. :(

Try the tool department at Sears? That's where I've bought most of my precision screwdriver sets and hex key sets. I've got down to 0.7mm for hex/allen key both with and without ball-end. Sorry, I forgot to suggest Sears last night, but I don't know if this helps or not now. Snap-On, MASCOT and others make them in these really small sizes too. I think I have a set from MASCOT that has all the super-small sizes of hex, phillips and slotted tip drivers.

...Not that all this helps now, but may be useful to others looking for the tools.

Steve Gibby

10-21-2007, 09:38 AM

RED One, at least the ones delivered in the first 25, and I believe all others that have delivered, do not use metric hexagon-top bolts, but rather U.S. inch sizes. After receiving RED #8 I simply went to a hardware store near me and bought the multiple fold-in, pocket knife sized Allen wrench tools in both metric and inch versions. Each multi-tool was about $10 USD. I tried both tools on #8 and found that the U.S. inch version was the correct one. See attached pic. The tool is two-sided, with smaller wrenches on one side, and larger ones on the other. The 5/32 wrench is the one that works for the larger bolts on RED One, for handles, etc. There are smaller bolts on RED One that use a 3/32 wrench (RED Cradle assembly, etc.).

As I remember from when we de-installed/installed the PL mount, when we mounted the Birger Canon prototype mount, the PL uses an off-size Allen wrench that seemed to be a metric measurement slightly smaller than a 5/64 U.S. wrench.

Good luck to you Ian. If the PL mount bolts are real tight, take care not to strip them. If the one you're working with is already stripped, find someone quickly who is an expert on removing stripped bolts. Be extremely careful to cover the camera port and protect the sensor when working on the PL mount.

In the attached pic I show the only two tools that I've traveled with in my RED kit - the multi-Allen and a screwdriver for working with plates. The multi-Allen tool is about 4" long when all tools are folded in, and the short screwdriver is only about 2" long. They must go in your check-in baggage because they could be construed as weapons if they're placed in your carry-on luggage.

Hope this info helps you...

Sean R.

10-21-2007, 09:50 AM

I know that one of our guys got a hold of you again and let you know this but I figure everyone else would like the info as well-
The allen wrench that is required for that screw is .035. It is the same screw that you would have to remove if you were taking the knob off of the joystick. It is micro. I would not suggest grinding down a larger wrench or any such procedure, you really don't want to strip a screw that small.

Charles Perkins

10-21-2007, 10:00 AM

go to a bike shop and get a park tools set. i'm holding one right now with a .9mm key on it.

Jeff Kilgroe

10-21-2007, 10:10 AM

Thanks for the info Gibby, Sean R.!

So we're looking at english measurements. Ian was close in figuring 0.9mm if it's actually a 0.035".

Steve Gibby

10-21-2007, 10:15 AM

Thanks for the info Gibby, Sean R.!

So we're looking at english measurements. Ian was close in figuring 0.9mm if it's actually a 0.035".

Metric/U.S on the PL bolts (.035" or 9mm), but U.S. measurements on the rest of the camera (3/32, 5/32, etc.) - at least on RED #8 that's the story.

jaadgy akanni

10-21-2007, 11:05 AM

Now that I think of it, a Watch repair shop would be the place to find a .9mm allen wrench, without a doubt. I think the jewelry and diamond district of new york are open on Sundays and you're to find a watch repair shop there.

Finner

10-21-2007, 11:28 AM

If the one you're working with is already stripped, find someone quickly who is an expert on removing stripped bolts. Be extremely careful to cover the camera port and protect the sensor when working on the PL mount.

Is this possible? Have you seen this done?

Finner

10-21-2007, 11:42 AM

I'm a little confused here as to which allen bolts are being talked about. I have removed a PL mount and if I remember right it was a metric bolt but larger then .9mm. In fact I think it was 2 or 2.5mm. I know I used one of my allen keys from my husky set to remove it and I do not have a .9mm in that set so it could not be the PL mount bolts unless they have been changed and made smaller on newer cameras which would not make a lot of sense.

On a different camera the joy-stick came loose and popped off. I did not have an allen key small enough to re-tighten it on and if that is indeed a .9mm bolt for the joystick then for sure the cameras I have worked with had larger bolts then the .9mm on the PL mount. I just would like to know which bolts we are talking about that are so small?

Steve Gibby

10-21-2007, 11:43 AM

Is this possible? Have you seen this done?

Ahhh...yes and yes... :biggrin:

Brian Ferguson

10-21-2007, 02:08 PM

The locking screw is a 0.9 mm or a .035 inch Allen.
Here is a image of the process of taking it off. This is a screw unique to the cameras 50 and higher. All the cameras that went out last Thursday and Friday have this mount. The first 50 do not.

It is just a set screw that keeps the PL collar from going past two stops. The new collar rotates about 180 degrees and then this screw hits a stop in a channel made for it. If the screw is not in far enough, it might be possible for it to go farther (especially in the clockwise rotation) than it should and act like a brake on the collar. This could only happen if the mount is turned in the tighten direction when there is no lens flange in the mount. This is what I believe has happened in Ian's case. It needs to be backed off with a wrench and when the screw is in the middle of the channel be reset to were the head of the screw is slightly below the surface of the collar.

I got my wrench in Amsterdam during IBC, it is the same size as the set screw on the knob of the menu joystick on the back of the camera.

jaadgy akanni

10-21-2007, 02:14 PM

The locking screw is a 0.9 mm or a .035 inch Allen.
Here is a image of the process of taking it off.

yep, the locking screw- the only 0.9mm screw on the mount.

I Bloom

10-21-2007, 03:51 PM

Hey guys, I want to thank Offhollywood and Jaadgy for taking the time to try and help us.

I ended up moving the production to an HVX P+S combo. I had a happy smiling director and producers at the end of the day, and that's what is important. We will give Red another go next weekend on a different production. I was really impressed by the images that we made, and also really want my own 300mm prime now.

With regards to the mount. We are taking it into a pro camera tech tommorow morning. I've just been too busy shooting to really deal with that issue.

If you have one of the new batch of RED's I would encourage to to get familiar with the ins and outs of this mount, as it's not the same, I hear, as the first 50. We work with PL mounts all the time and didn't do anything out of the ordinary to get ourselves into that situation, so be aware of the possibility and get prepared for it. Unfortunately I won't be there for them to adjust the mount. I'll see if we can get some pictures of it and put them up.

Also thanks to Brian Ferguson for having a late night Skype video call with me. I appreciate your help.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/582_1193006248.jpg

Thanks,
IBloom

Mark L. Pederson

10-21-2007, 05:11 PM

Hey guys, I want to thank Offhollywood and Jaadgy for taking the time to try and help us.

just bummed we couldn't solve your problem - turns out our AC on the stunt car shoot had that key in his kit - that is how we fixed our situation - so, yeah ... I'm gonna pick one up asap.

Also, since Red is changing a few things - if we are all going to help each other - it might make be a good idea to let us all know if there are any differences in camera units (cameras 1-50 have xyz, but on cameras 51 + etc. etc.)