Group purchase of Arri Matteboxes

[Jay A. Kelley]

SUMARY POST BELOW BY Eirik Tyrihjel

Hi, there are basically THREE deals you can get in on here:
1) The basic for the MB20II
2) FF4
3) ND filter package + extras

IMPORTANT: As far as I understand you have to buy the MB20II to get in on the other deals. (I am not sure about this, but it´s how I interpret it)

Here I have found the essentials for you (READ FUTHER DOWN), they all are part of this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5441
If you want in, the details of the contact at Abelcine are to be found here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpos...&postcount=293

Good luck! And again thanks to Jay for organising!


================================================== ======================
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpos...&postcount=162
---------------Here are the basics of that post-----------------

Here is the basic package you would buy:

Filter Frame 4x5.65 229.88
MB-20II Two Tray 3436.59
Side Flags 506.98
Filter Tray Combo 261.95
138mm Filter Ring 285.12
MB-20II Top Flag 213.84
19mm Adaptor 301.16
Light Trap 63.26

If you purchase this package you would pay around $5298.78 (Street Price).
Under Arri's deal, you would get the following FREE:
MB-20II Top Flag $213.00
19 or 15mm Adaptor $301.16
138mm Filter Ring $285.12

This comes out to a discount of $800.12.
You actual cost on the Mattebox would be $4,498.66

Some quick points:
You CANNOT change the items Arri is giving away with this deal.

================================================== ======================
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpos...&postcount=183
---------------Here are the basics of that post-----------------

Price for Follow Focus 4 is $4078 at this time..

TAKE OFF $600 since the adaptor is free.

So it's around $3400.00

The gears are extra, but everyone will buy the one that works for them

================================================== ======================
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpos...&postcount=266
---------------Here are the basics of that post-----------------


Mattebox Filter Package For RED:

Formatt 4x5.65 HD ND.3 - $154
Formatt 4x5.65 HD ND.6 - $154
Formatt 4x5.65 HD ND.9 - $154
Formatt 4x5.65 HD ND1.8 (Or 1.2, take your pick) - $160
Formatt 5.65x5.65 Soft Edge HD ND.6 Grad - $264
Formatt 138mm HD Circular Polarizor - $239.00

Total Price:$1,125.00
Also:
Formatt 4x5.65 clear HD/DV Soft Effects #3
Formatt 5.65x5.65 Blender HD ND.9 Grad
Included with Package FREE



--------------


if you have any questions, Ablecine knows what they are selling, ask!
Our Vendor for this buy is Steve Cohen @ Abel Cine.

[david farland]

Count me in. Need to investigate size 4x5.65 or 5.65x5.65 and model properly and accessories.Also be looking at Arri FF.

Cheers,

[Chris Parker]

I would be interested in the Matte Box and FF as well.....

[Jay A. Kelley]

Cool.. I have reason (Information) to believe that Arri is very interested in this if we can get enough people together.

I am going to speak with someone over there and get back to all of you
Jay

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Count me in. I'm up for either a 4*4, 4x5.65 or 5.65x5.65 and also a 6*6. So two matteboxes for me. What about FF are we adding that on to this list? I for sure need one.

fred

[Jay A. Kelley]

From what I am told the MB-20II is a little tougher than the MB-20 so that is the way I am going to go.

A question for all of you, do you want two filter trays or three?

I will post a basic package here in a bit so you can get an idea of what I am currently looking at.

Jay

[Vladimir Eugene]

very interested

[Yannick Hagman]

Which lucky guy can spend $5,700.00 for a mattebox? Well.. I hope this redrock-guy get's his stuff to the market.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Ok I have some more information on this.

First: Let's not comment on how expensive Arri is. We all know how expensive they are and yet some of us are still interested in purchasing from them for whatever reason. If you want to purchase another mattebox, feel free to do so with our love and support.

I just spoke with Eric J. Johnston who is Arri's product manager for the Matteboxes and Follow Focus (And perhaps other things, but I am not aware of what they are). He is EXTREMELY interested in making this worth our while
if we can get a group of people who are interested in this.

The way we would save money would be through either Rebates from Arri, or items at no charge. I will go into this in anothe post.

I know there are a lot of people waiting on cameras, so I will try to hold off the sale until early December.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Here is a basic Arri "RED" package in terms of the mattebox:

1 19mm adapter for MB20 $300.20
1 Adapter Ring 80MM MB20 $64.80
1 Filter Frame 4X5.65 Horiz.MB20 $230.20
1 Filter Tray, 4X5.65 Vert. MB20 $216.00
2 Filter Tray, Combo 4X5.65 MB20 $520.20
1 Light Trap, W/A 138-117 MB-20 $63.90
1 MB-20 II F/LW Rods, No Flags $3,461.30
1 MB20-II Top or Bottom Flag $216.00
1 Side Flag Set MB-20 II $510.10

So the cost here with no tax and shipping is around $5,600.00 or so (We'll get more specific when it's time)

What Arri is offering is to provide some of these items FREE. How many depends on the number of orders, but we have already spoken of adaptor rings, filter trays and the top & side eyebrows. There is the potential to save a LOT of money here.

The details are being worked out, however the first step is to guage interest.

So post if you are intersted, if you have questions or a specific request, just PM me.


Jay

[Ivan G]

Count me in as well JAY!

[Chris Gearhart]

I'm interested, but not sure yet. Don't know if that counts.

[Stacey Spears]

I am interested.

[Albert Cheng]

I am interested as well.

[WesG]

I'm keen on both a matte box and FF kit.

PMed you.

cheers

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I may be interested... But I'm not buying a mattebox from anyone until I see what CVB / ViewFactor is putting together or until I take delivery of my camera... Whichever comes first I suppose.

Why the MB-20 II vs. the regular MB-20?

[RivaiC]

Definitely interested.

[Matthew Lochman]

I may be interested... But I'm not buying a mattebox from anyone until I see what CVB / ViewFactor is putting together or until I take delivery of my camera... Whichever comes first I suppose.

Why the MB-20 II vs. the regular MB-20?

Bingo.
It has just now occurred to me that the Arri MB-20 is nearly 1/3 the cost of the RED ONE body. strange...

[Chris Parker]

sounds good so far. what about the ff kit?

i would be interested in both still....depending on the timing and final deal

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I am interested. (As long as they don´t have reservations against shipping to Europe.)

ALSO interested in FF.

[david farland]

How much?

My feeling is for an initial purchase of 20 units, you’d be looking at a 50% discount.

The figure is right for any savvy sales rep who understands the paradigm of what is happening on this forum…and the resultant sales from the focused attention their kit may receive with minimal marketing. They simply need to instil their kit as the tool of choice on this forum (at a price point) to 3000 thousand cameras/owners and attract an increased market share. That to me is worth a good discount.

Cheers,

[Matthew Rogers]

If Arri would do a 40-50% discount, I would probably buy Mattebox and FF from them (as it stands right now, I'd be getting Curt's Mattebox and an Arri FF.

Matthew

[Jay A. Kelley]

How much?

My feeling is for an initial purchase of 20 units, you’d be looking at a 50% discount.

The figure is right for any savvy sales rep who understands the paradigm of what is happening on this forum…and the resultant sales from the focused attention their kit may receive with minimal marketing. They simply need to instil their kit as the tool of choice on this forum (at a price point) to 3000 thousand cameras/owners and attract an increased market share. That to me is worth a good discount.

Cheers,
Guys, please, let's keep this realistic. 50% off is what factorys give to distribution centers, and those orders tend to run in the thousands.

The O'Connor 1030HDS package was around $4,400 ad we got about $800 off the street price, if we hit 20 matteboxes I think we can improve on that a little.

But if you are looking for 1/2 off, then let's stop this right now cause I can't help you there.

Arri has NEVER done this kind of discount before, and due to the exchange rate I would not be surprised if we saw a price INCREASE in the future.

Let's just see what happens... But while we do, let's try to keep decent expectations.

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

I may be interested... But I'm not buying a mattebox from anyone until I see what CVB / ViewFactor is putting together or until I take delivery of my camera... Whichever comes first I suppose.

Why the MB-20 II vs. the regular MB-20?

I'm in the same boat Jeff, but with Curt not even offering a deadline, I just can't hang out forever. Also, and I went back and forth a lot on this, I don't want to be getting another one of these things for a very long time. If I go with an Arri, the resale value is very strong (Expecially is we manage to save some bucks in the process).

As far as the MB-20 II vs. the MB-20... The MB-20 seems to be a newer more compact model. It cannot remove it's sunshade, but that's about the only difference aside from the $600 - $700 savings. I am also told the top flag on the II folds which allows for better storage, the top flag on the 20 does not and it's pretty large, presenting challenges for packing and shipping (I am told.. I have not seen this myself).

I am going with the II since that seems to be the choice of a lot of users and the RED team itself.

As for a follow focus, I have not made up my mind yet.

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

It's an EXCELLENT deal if:
You were already going to get an Arri Mattebox and/or Follow Focus for your RED.

It's a GREAT deal if:
You were going back and forth between matteboxes and quality was important, you knew you wanted an Arri, but you were hoping to save some money somehow.

It's a GOOD deal if:
Arri was at the top of the list, but too expensive. You knew you would eventually get one, but did not want to do it now unless there was a damn good reason.

It's a BAD deal if:
It's WAY out of your price range, you would need them to slash the prices by more than 60% or find one on E-bay for cheap to consider it. You would be perfectly happy with a REDRock, or CAvision mattebox.


As for me, I have decided to go the Arri route. If there are enough people on here who feel the same, then we can do this and save some money to boot..

Jay likes saving money!!!

Please remember, if you JUST want ONLY a mattebox, or ONLY a follow focus, we can do that.. They are willing.

:)

[Alexander Mitchell]

Great post. I'm definitely interested as well. I would like to purchase this by the end of this fiscal year- tax reason of course. Sooner the better actually.

Look forward to the updates...

[Ken Willinger]

Interested but need details.

[T. Glen Phelps]

Recently purchased the MB-20II and an FF-5HD from Filmtools. Excellent build quality on both. The staff is a pleasure to work with.


http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/1402_1193292171.jpeg


http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/1402_1193292312.jpeg

[luis bustamante]

count me in (even though we're waiting to see VFS's MB).

If the FF will be included we are interested as well.

Regarding date of purchase, the closer to nov. 30 the better for us.

Thanks!

[Cail Young]

How much?

You and I may be better off ordering through ARRI Australia and getting an aussie group together...

[Mark Pugh]

You and I may be better off ordering through ARRI Australia and getting an aussie group together...

I'd take one.

[Jay A. Kelley]

If you are interested in this group buy:

PLEASE PM ME.

Let me know what you are looking for, and also if you have any questions. I will begin building a list.

Arri is working up the discounts right now.

AlSO: Be sure you tell me if you want two or three filter stages in your mattebox!

Jay

[david farland]

Here is a basic Arri "RED" package in terms of the mattebox:
1 19mm adapter for MB20 $300.20
1 Adapter Ring 80MM MB20 $64.80
1 Filter Frame 4X5.65 Horiz.MB20 $230.20
1 Filter Tray, 4X5.65 Vert. MB20 $216.00
2 Filter Tray, Combo 4X5.65 MB20 $520.20
1 Light Trap, W/A 138-117 MB-20 $63.90
1 MB-20 II F/LW Rods, No Flags $3,461.30
1 MB20-II Top or Bottom Flag $216.00
1 Side Flag Set MB-20 II $510.10

Jay

Jay,

Are these the Arri list prices (not discounted) prices?

Cheers,

Dave,

[Jay A. Kelley]

These are the street prices. Not Arri's prices.

Jay

[Tim Lüdin]

Hi guys I'm also interested, but does anybody know about the sizes? How big do we have to got to cover lenses from 14mm to the 300mm RED?
5.6 x 5.6 or even 6 x 6 ?

Maybe Mc Greggor or Brooke can chim in here and give us some tips.

Cheers
Tim

[Jay A. Kelley]

I have confirmed that the 300mm lens was used with this mattebox.
Jay

[Steve Gal]

I may be interested in 2 Matte-Boxes but need to know the prices.

Steve

[Travis MacRitchie]

I just want to indicate i am interested and would purchase a matte box through this group

[Evin Grant]

I'd be intersted in a MB-17B I have primes and don't need 4x5.65 filters.

[Craig Bowman]

Count me in on this, three stages, all the flags, plus the FF. Are you going to look at filters as well? (I am interested in NDs and ND grads mainly).

[Jay A. Kelley]

I have gotten a pretty large response from both this thread, and by PM.. Of course all of you are asking the same question I would ask:

What's the discount?

Well Arri is working on that right now, and I am pretty sure I will have something to post tomorrow.

I'll keep you all informed.

Jay

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Craig mentions 3 stages... Would we really need more than 2 filters with RED? I'm thinking a ND and a pola and everything else can be tweaked in post. It just seems counter-productive to stack more glass in front of the lens when it's not going to be necessary with this RAW workflow. OTOH, having the option of extra stages couldn't hurt.

[albert rudnicki]

I am in as well.
I would not get it before Red really start shipping the cameras thought...

Thanks
Albert

[PaulClements]

I might be interested too Jay.

Paul

[Jay A. Kelley]

No problem Paul.. Working out discounts and details for international shipping
Jay

[david farland]

Arri (Aust) want to quote on a volume order of MB-20s also so it'll be good to compare!

Dave,

[Jay A. Kelley]

Arri (Aust) want to quote on a volume order of MB-20s also so it'll be good to compare!

Dave,

This sort of thing is not helpful, and it will kill this deal. I will not post reasons in public, but feel free to ask me in PM.

Please guys, let's be careful

Jay

[david farland]

I think everyone here wants a competitive price.Will PM you with contact details.

Cheers,

[Jay A. Kelley]

Cool David. We'll work this out..
Jay

[david farland]

Thanks Jay....
couple of things, hadn't got a fixed quote Fri night from Arri Oz so had to tell them they missed the boat this time round...maybe next time!
There's only 2,900 & counting! more Reds to go out the factory door!

On a technical note I think there is a load of stuff people need to know before choosing the right MB configuration...from filter sizes availabilities, filter functions, rod diameters to name a few.

Below is a list of reduser links where some of this has been discussed:

1. Matte Box Woes (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1997&highlight=arri)
2. Matte Box Woes Revisited (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3508&highlight=matte+box)
3. Matte Box; Options Today (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4268&highlight=matte+box)
4. Matte Box size for 18-50 and primes (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3103&highlight=matte+box)
5. POLL - red matte box size (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2359&highlight=matte+box)
6. 18-50 + Follow Focus + Mattebox options (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1777&highlight=ND+filters)
7. Lens & matte box discussion (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5282&highlight=matte+box)
8. Cavision MB565U Matte Box - Page 2 (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2544&page=2&highlight=matte+box)
9. Redrock mattebox (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2976&highlight=matte+box)
10. Suggested Filter Package fo RED (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1947&highlight=matte+box)
11. Best brand for ND filters Tiffen, Formatt or Schneider (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3910&highlight=ND+filters)

Cheers,
Dave

[Jay A. Kelley]

After speaking with "our" Arri representative today, he strongly suggested that we all go with the FF-4 and NOT the FF-5. His point is that the five was made for smaller lenses (Like HD). So if you are doing a lot of EFP then the 5 may be for you.. Film-type work should use a 4
Jay

[Greg M]

After speaking with "our" Arri representative today, he strongly suggested that we all go with the FF-4 and NOT the FF-5. His point is that the five was made for smaller lenses (Like HD). So if you are doing a lot of EFP then the 5 may be for you.. Film-type work should use a 4
Jay


Yes, I have posted this many times. The FF5 is NOT designed for cine cameras, it is made for Video lenses and does not fully support most cine lenses. It does not work w/ Ultra Primes.

[Jendra]

Craig mentions 3 stages... Would we really need more than 2 filters with RED? I'm thinking a ND and a pola and everything else can be tweaked in post. It just seems counter-productive to stack more glass in front of the lens when it's not going to be necessary with this RAW workflow. OTOH, having the option of extra stages couldn't hurt.

I have been shooting with the camera and YES YOU NEED 3 STAGES!
If you get two you will seriously regret it. If I were buying for myself I would get more than 3.

Shooting a 320 ISO camera outside during the day you need an ND1.2 and another ND just to shoot. I was using 1.2 and .9 everytime I shot outside, and if you want a polarizer in addition, there's your 3 filters. Plus you (or your DP) may want diffusion or other effects filters, grads, color filters etc on top of that. Not all DPs want to leave all the coloring til post when they may or may not be available to be there.

[David Cubbage]

Hi Jay

Count me in as well for the mattebox with 3 stage, and FF-4. Not sure which filter size I would go for yet. I own a Vocas 4x4 mattebox at the moment plus a Vocas FF and I want to make sure they aren't suitable for cine lenses on the Red before I invest in a new set up.

Just guessing here that my Red won't ship until Feb/March2008. But it seems to me that this opportunity is too good to miss if the discount is OK. I live in the UK by the way.

Thanks
David

[Jay A. Kelley]

Sorry I did not get numbers for you as promised. Things suddenly got a "little complicated" and the system slowed down.

I am fairly sure we'll have something by Mon or Tues.

Here are a couple of points:

People are asking about international shipping.. That should not be a problem.

It's a pretty stong point you need to be thinking of a three stage mattebox instead of a two.

If you are using Cine Style lenses and NOT just EFP lenses, then you need to consider a FF-4.. Not 5.

20 Matteboxes is the magic number. If we can hit that, I expect a good discount. I have an idea of what that should be, and I will push hard for it. If we are able to pull off 20 matteboxes (And a large number of Follow Focuses) then we should be looking at some decent savings.

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

We will be getting savings from two sources:

1. The Vendor
2. Arri

We have not committed to a vendor yet. That will happen when I have a very good idea of how many people are SERIOUS about this purchase. When I know that we'll speak with two. Their discounts won't be major due to a slight markup (This is not a sales gimic, I have confirmed this) but there will be some discount.

Arri will be doing something different: The will give us a percentage of the package cost IN PRODUCT. Not stupid stuff like a nice roll of Gaffer Tape. No, they will be giving things like Filter frames ($200+ value) or adaptors ($300+ value). This is stuff YOU WOULD HAVE TO BUY if you were getting the mattebox. The follow focus is a little trickier, but we're working it out.

So let's say the average cost of a Mattebox is $5,700.00. But Arri may supply you with items in that package for FREE as part of the discount so your purchase will in fact be less. This make sense?

Let's answer a couple of questions you may have:

Can I choose the items I want?:
Most likely not. We will try to stay with things we KNOW 99.99% of you will want.

What if I only want a Follow Focus? How will that work?:
Not sure yet.. I have an idea but we'll see next week.

As long as Arri really steps up and does their best, this could be a cool deal.

Try not to make any predictions, we'll see what they offer. It's in their best interest to be aggressive. We have a lot of choices out there and they know it.

Jay

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Shooting a 320 ISO camera outside during the day you need an ND1.2 and another ND just to shoot. I was using 1.2 and .9 everytime I shot outside, and if you want a polarizer in addition, there's your 3 filters. Plus you (or your DP) may want diffusion or other effects filters, grads, color filters etc on top of that. Not all DPs want to leave all the coloring til post when they may or may not be available to be there.

Yeah, I agree with the 3+ stages the more I think about it.. Just keeping options open and remaining flexible.

I'm not really a fan of stacking NDs. The fewer pieces of glass I can put in front of a lens, the better, but that's just me. When shooting outdoors with RED, instead of bringing a .6, .9 and 1.2 ND, I'd probably bring a 1.5, 1.9 and 2.4.

Same with color or effects filters. I'm more of a post guy and prefer to handle coloring in post. With the RAW workflow, I see no reason to use color filters on the camera as that is more likely to cause problems later than if the coloring was delegated to post. In most situations, I'd prefer to hold off on effects until post as well. There's a lot more freedom to explore options in post if you're working with a clean image and not trying to figure out how to remove some treatment that was recorded optically that the director decides he really doesn't like after all. Of course, there's still some sorts of effects that look a lot better if captured with the camera than when they're created by post processing.

But a lot comes down to the project at hand. What the producer / director want (or think they want), etc..

[david farland]

Guys,

Do you mind if I chime in with a FAQ page here. I’ll update/add to it. Tell me when I screw up.

1.2 - Differences - MB 20 vs MB 20-II
The MB 20-II has collapsible top & bottom flags, different side flags and different flag mounting mechanisms to the MB 20.

The MB 20-II base system (as above) with 4 flags is $5,210. (www.filmtools.com) (http://www.filmtools.com)/)
The MB 20 base system (as above) with 4 flags is $5,830.


1.3 - Comparison Chart of ALL ARRI Matte Boxes ( plus some 3rd party)
http://www.camerafilters.co.uk/page160.html (http://www.camerafilters.co.uk/page160.html)


1.4 - ARRI MB 200-II product pages
Overview page with Arri part configurations diagrams including MB 20 & MB 20-II.
Note: MB-20-II page has changes to MB-20 only!
http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/configuration_overview/index.htm (http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/configuration_overview/index.htm)


1.5 - ARRI MB 20 Quick Guide pdf
http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/mb-20/MB-20.pdf (http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/mb-20/MB-20.pdf)


1.6 - MB 20 & MB 20-II prices (Filmtools)
http://www.filmtools.com/arrimb20aks.html (http://www.filmtools.com/arrimb20aks.html)


1.7 - RedUser Matte box discussion pages


1. Matte Box Woes (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1997&highlight=arri)
2. Matte Box Woes Revisited (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3508&highlight=matte+box)
3. Matte Box; Options Today (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4268&highlight=matte+box)
4. Matte Box size for 18-50 and primes (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3103&highlight=matte+box)
5. POLL - red matte box size (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2359&highlight=matte+box)
6. 18-50 + Follow Focus + Mattebox options (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1777&highlight=ND+filters)
7. Lens & matte box discussion (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5282&highlight=matte+box)
8. Cavision MB565U Matte Box - Page 2 (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2544&page=2&highlight=matte+box)
9. Redrock mattebox (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2976&highlight=matte+box)
10. Vocas mattebox for the red one (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=532)
11. New Mattebox news (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5666)




.....continued below

[david farland]

2 Filters boxes & trays

2.1 Filter Trays
General consensus is to get 2 filter stages plus 1 rotating polarizer filter.

Note: Minimum filter size for Red camera should be 4 x 5.65.
Note: 5.65 x 5.65 can be used for grad filters in horizontal or vertical positions.
Note: Rotating polarizer filter should be round type 138mm filter inserted into bellows, see FAQ section 3.


http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/48_1194756252.jpg

2.2 FIXED TRAY CONFIGURATIONS

Note: Fixed tray (4 x 5.6) comes in both horizontal or vertical models.


2.3 COMBO TRAY CONFIGURATIONS

Note: Combo 1 requires (4 x 5.6) fixed matte tray placed in front Combo 1 tray.
Note: You can’t use (4 x 5.6) filters in Combo 2 (5.6 x 5.6) tray.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/48_1194757551.jpg


....continued below

[david farland]

3.1 - Red Lenses sizes

- RED 18-50mm: Front - 114mm. Screw-on filter size is 72mm.
- RED 300mm: Front - 117mm. Built-in filter size is 43mm.


3.2 - Red and Arri Rod Adapters


The rod centre spacing of the Arri bridge plate 19mm rods is 104mm and is symmetrical about the optical axis.
The height of the optical axis from the rod centre plane is 120mm.

The rod centre spacing of the Red Bottom plate 19mm rods is 104mm and is symmetrical about the optical axis.
The height of the optical axis from the rod centre plane is 120mm.

The rod centre spacing of the Arri bridge plate 15mm studio rods is 100mm with an optical axis offset of 17.25mm.
The height of the optical axis plane from the rod centre on the 15mm system is 118mm.

The rod centre spacing of the Arri lightweight 15mm rods is 60mm and is symmetrical about the optical axis.
The height of the optical axis from the rod centre on the 15mm system is 85mm.



Reduser Mount discussion pages

Element Technica (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5332)




3.3 - 19mm Studio Rod Options

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/48_1194075528.jpg




3.4 - 15mm studio rod option

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/48_1194075211.jpg



3.5 - Clamp-on option & additional 19mm and15mm Studio mount options

- Clamp-on option doesn't use rod 15mm/19mm rods. The matte box clamps directly onto end of lens.

- There's also 2 other Arri mounting options which instead of using the Arri 15mm Lightweight support bracket in picture above, they use similiar 15mm & 19mm studio support brackets.

I'll post pics real soon.

....continued below..

[david farland]

4.1 - Pricing (Street pricing)

1 15mm or 19mm adapter : $300.20
1 Adapter Ring 80MM : $64.80
1 Filter Frame 4x5.65 Horiz : $230.20
1 Filter Tray, 4x5.65 Vert : $216.00
2 Filter Tray, Combo (4x5.65) or (5.65x5.65) : $520.20
1 Filter 3 stage module upgrade - $300 (from 2 stage)
1 Light Trap, W/A 138-117 : $63.90
1 MB-20 II F/LW Rods, No Flags : $3,461.30
1 MB20-II Top or Bottom Flag : $216.00
1 Side Flag Set : $510.

4.2 - Filters

Links - Filter suppliers
Schneider Optics (http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=56)
Tiffen filters (http://www.tiffen.com/tiffen_filters.html)
Formatt filters (http://www.formatt.co.uk/glass-filters/glass-filters.aspx)


Links - RedUser discussion pages

1. Suggested Filter Package fo RED (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1947&highlight=matte+box)
2. Best brand for ND filters Tiffen, Formatt or Schneider (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3910&highlight=ND+filters)
3. Diffusion (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5717)
4. Schneider ND Group buy (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5746)


4.3 - Hard Mattes

4.4 - Other

Clip on lens adapters.


.....continued..

[david farland]

plain greedy!

[Greg M]

Hard mattes (how important are they?)


depends on if you want light bouncing around into your lens or not. I use them all the time...way over priced pieces of plastic, but necessary.

[T. Glen Phelps]

The adapter ring can also be used as a filter holder by using 138mm "drop-in" circular filters. This is where I'm using a Pola.

[Tim Lüdin]

He guys, another question about the MB-20. How many filter stages can you stack together. So far I only see 2 stages.
I'm also sure we will need 3 or even 4 sometimes.

What about wideangle lenses around 12mm. Will they work with the mb-20. Otherwise I'll get a MB-14. The MB-14 is fine with lenses down to 12mm. My mattebox should be as flexible as possible. Of course it will get a heavy beast that way but I don't want to buy several mattboxes for different jobs.

So who knows more?
Cheers
Tim

[Jay A. Kelley]

Hey David,

Thanks for posting this stuff.. VERY helpful.

My personal recommendation is to purchase 2 or 3 combo filters that cover panavision size or your NDs and Polas. Then one 5.56x5.56 for your ND Grads. This will give you room to move them around (This info is per David Mullen... I'm looking smart using his stuff!)

The only major correction I would make to your numbers, it that you do NOT have to buy a three stage setup in addition to the 2 stage, you can upgrade it, and that's around $300 (For the MB-20 II.. Not sure about the 20)

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

I have been putting most of my attention on the MB-20 II instead of the MB-20. Reasons are they are too similar anyway, and I like the idea of saving $600 or more bucks.

If anyone wants ONLY an MB-20 and will walk away if they do not get it, please let me know! I'll try to make it all work

Jay

[Tim Lüdin]

Hi Jay

So that means you can put more stages together later.
So 3-4 stages will work?

Greets
Tim

[david farland]

The MD-20 does a 3 stage assembly plus an additional 138mm round filter.

See here: http://www.filmtools.com/338203.html (http://www.filmtools.com/338203.html)

don't know if you can add any more to this setup.

Cheers,

[Tim Lüdin]

Hey thanks a lot David. That's what if been looking for.

So there is still the question of how wide you can go?
I'm realy thinking about getting a 12mm oder 14mm lens.
So do you think the mb20 will work?

Thanks for the infos guys
Cheers
Tim

[Greg M]

just get a clip-on mb for the wide angle.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Guys,

Do you mind if I chime in with a FAQ page here. I’ll update/add to it. Tell me when I screw up.

1.1 MB 20-II
This is a picture of a MB-20-ll (below)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/48_1193537437.jpg



1.2 MD-20
This is a picture of a MB-20 (below)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/48_1193537751.jpg


1.3 Differences - MB 20 vs MB 20-II
The MB 20-II has collapsible top & bottom flags, different side flags and different flag mounting mechanisms to the MB 20.

The MB 20-II base system (as above) with 4 flags is $5,830.
The MB 20 base system (as above) with 4 flags is $5,210 (www.filmtools.com) (http://www.filmtools.com)/)

1.4 ARRI product pages
- Overview page with Arri part configurations diagrams including MB 20 & MB 20-II.
Note: MB-20-II page has changes to MB-20 only!
http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/configuration_overview/index.htm (http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/configuration_overview/index.htm)

- Arri MB 20 quick guide pdf -
http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/mb-20/MB-20.pdf (http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/mb-20/MB-20.pdf)



.....continued below

Hey David,

You may want to re-check your numbers. The MB-20II is a LOT less expensive than the MB-20. In fact if you go to filmtools and check out the cost of the side flags alone, you will see over a $400 price difference.

:)

Jay

[Justin O'Neill]

I will need two MB 20s and two follow foci. I will PM you Jay.

[david farland]

Hey David,

You may want to re-check your numbers. The MB-20II is a LOT less expensive than the MB-20. In fact if you go to filmtools and check out the cost of the side flags alone, you will see over a $400 price difference.

:)

Jay

Thanks Jay, I had the figures reversed!

Dave,

[MikeHedge]

wow.... so much information!!! Jay I am interested in a FF and a Mattebox. I will get RED #998 in January, but if I can get this deal Decemberish I would be interested. I do plan on using this with extreme wide angle lenses and also a fisheye. so I'm sure if the MB 20 II will work.. thanks for organizing this.

[Max Zug]

Jay,
Sent you a PM. In for the MB-20II and the FF4.
max
max@maxfilms.com

[Tim Lüdin]

Hey Jay

I'm also very interested in the MB-20II.
I need the mattegox with 3 filter stages and the 5.65x 5.65 sizes.
I also need a followfocus.
December would be the perfect month to get it.
I'm looking forward to your deal with arri.

Thanks for your work.
Cheers
Tim

[Michael Ragen]

I'm still thinking about an Arri LMB-5 clip on 4x5.65 mattebox but I may be interested in the ff-4. I'm just waiting to see prices before I pm you. Thanks Jay.

[Ben Goldenberg]

I'm still thinking about an Arri LMB-5 clip on 4x5.65 mattebox but I may be interested in the ff-4. I'm just waiting to see prices before I pm you. Thanks Jay.

I just want to warn all you people that Film Tools has terrible business ethics and if you can spend your money elsewhere do that. I ordered some products from them to ship to Canada and they sent the wrong items, Then on a trip to LA I brought the incorrect items back and they refused to take them back!! In honor of me, shop somewhere else!

[Jendra]

When shooting outdoors with RED, instead of bringing a .6, .9 and 1.2 ND, I'd probably bring a 1.5, 1.9 and 2.4.


Any idea where to find such filters? I keep asking for a 1.5 and no one has one in rental stock. I've heard you can order custom filters from Tiffen.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Any idea where to find such filters? I keep asking for a 1.5 and no one has one in rental stock. I've heard you can order custom filters from Tiffen.

You can order custom densities from Formatt and Tiffen and I believe Schneider does this as well. I think Formatt offers customs up to a 2.4 (8 stops).

[Häakon]

December would be the perfect month to get it.
For those of us who already have cameras, it would be nice if the group buy went through as soon as possible.

Thanks.

[Mark Pedersen]

Jay,

Count me in on the MB 20 II order, plus the FF4. I'll PM you with my list. I'm thinking 3 stages.

Thanks for pulling this together!

[Curran Giddens]

You can order custom densities from Formatt and Tiffen and I believe Schneider does this as well. I think Formatt offers customs up to a 2.4 (8 stops).

I think Schneider has 1.8 in stock now. Formatt said 1.5 was the greatest density they can do in glass. I think 3.0 in gel.

I just got a 1.2 HD ND, 1.5 HD ND, and a 138mm circular pola from Formatt.co.uk. Only problem is the exchange rate of dollars to GBP.

[Dave Weber]

Jay,

I am interested also. MB20II + FF4. Would like some prices before I commit completely though.

Thanks for all your work on this. :weight_lift:

[B Newberry]

Jay:

Like David, I'm also interested in the MB20II and FF4. Thanks for the group offer.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Guys this group buy has shown a lot more interest than we thought. I expect Arri will step up to the plate to earn our business.

If they don't, then I will cancel this group buy. They may be unable to do 50% as David had hoped, but he was right in that they need to make this a VERY sweet offer.

I have communicated this to our Arri rep and he has been great. I have no doubt he will go to bat for us, but in the end, it's all about the numbers.

For now, We'll have to wait and see. If it's good, you all will be the first to know

Jay

[Tim Lüdin]

Thank's Jay, stick in there, 40% would also bee great:w00t:

We all wait and see.

Cheers
Tim

[Matthew Rogers]

Guys this group buy has shown a lot more interest than we thought. I expect Arri will step up to the plate to earn our business.

If they don't, then I will cancel this group buy. They may be unable to do 50% as David had hoped, but he was right in that they need to make this a VERY sweet offer.


One question...many of us will have their cameras very soon, and many of us won't be getting theirs (ME!) until at least march. How would buying those work for those of us who aren't going to buy until Feb/March/April? Could you see about putting down a small, non-refundable deposit, $100-$200? I ask because I am doing a business loan and won't be taking out the money until near when my RED ships.

Matthew

[LAO]

Count me in also for the complete MB package. I'm located in NJ, though. Will that pose a problem?

Thanks,

Luis Ortiz
info@laortiz.com

[Michael Ragen]

Hey fromwimptopimp, thanks for the advice, but who said I was planning on ordering anything from filmtools?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'd be down for a MB-20II & FF4 if the price is right. Better still if I don't have to make the final purchase until January or February, but that might be asking too much for a group buy. I do want to wait and see what CVB is cooking up for a Mattebox, and I'm unsure if I want their remote control module instead of a standard FF, but at least with the ARRI gear I know what I'm getting and it's great stuff.

[Jay A. Kelley]

For those of you worried about which Vendor we use, we are not just working with the Vendor, we are working with Arri as well. I will make sure everyone is taken care of.

Jay

[Chris Armstrong]

I could be interested in a MB-20II & FF4 depending on discount & when payment is due. (Camera isn't coming for a few months)

Regardless, thanks Jay for organizing all this.

[Michael Ragen]

Is anyone looking to purchase an LFF-1. Does anyone know how much lighter this is than the FF-4?

[Ken Willinger]

I'd be down for a MB-20II & FF4 if the price is right. Better still if I don't have to make the final purchase until January or February, but that might be asking too much for a group buy. I do want to wait and see what CVB is cooking up for a Mattebox, and I'm unsure if I want their remote control module instead of a standard FF, but at least with the ARRI gear I know what I'm getting and it's great stuff.

I'm with you on this Jeff...Jan or Feb would be great for me as well. It seems there is a tremendous amount of interest in this group buy. With so many people in, Arri should be willing to do a pretty sizeable discount as it will be a very large sale. I'm also doing this purchase (along with RED and glass) through a business loan and won't have cash till probably mid Jan, as my # doesn't ship till then.

[Andrew Benz]

I could be interested in a MB-20II & FF4 depending on discount & when payment is due. (Camera isn't coming for a few months)

Regardless, thanks Jay for organizing all this.

Jay this is a great service, thank you very much. Now, I too am waiting to see what View Factor offers, but if things do not work out I would be interested in the MB-20II and the FF4 depending on discount and when payment is due.

Thanks again Jay,

Andrew Benz #557

[Mark Pedersen]

Jay,

Sent you a PM re: the list of MB 20 II stuff I want to order. Are you plannning to compile a list of interested parties and keep us in the loop as to pricing/next steps?

When do you expect to get a final quote from Arri?

Please advise,

Thanks!

[Jay A. Kelley]

I expect a quote today. Also I have been doing some extensive research with the help of some people, I have a very good idea of what we're looking for, and I know what's possible.

I know a lot of you are interested, but the trick is finding out how many really want to BUY. You can't make that decision until you have some numbers. The same goes for me.

As for filters I have a request into Evin Grant for some assistance in that area, he has not responded yet, but fear not.. We'll get it all wrapped up pretty soon now.

Jay

[Leo Ticheli]

Thank you for your efforts, Jay.

I need the larger Arri Matte Box, the 14, to take 6.6x6.6 filters, and the FF4. I expect our camera a bit after the first of the year with the new schedules, and would like to purchase then.

If this is possible, please include me in your plans.

Best regards,

Leo

[Dan Blanchett]

Will the MB II fit a Cooke 20-100, or is the front element too big? I could not find size specs for the Cooke zoom, but I suspect it's too big. May have to get the MB 14 as well.

[Chris Armstrong]

I believe the Cooke 20-100 has a 144mm front element. The MB-20 only goes up to 136mm. So you'll probably need the MB-14.

[Steve Sanacore]

Arri seems to be the best and the industry standard. There is no substitute for quality in this business. A film set is like a war zone where only the strong survive. If you skimp you will probably only pay more later.... unless of course your camera is for personal use.

I have been trying to find the best Arri choice and should be ready when you put a deal together. Count me in also. I guess the best choice would be the most versatile model. All size rods and clip on adapter too.

Keep us informed and thanks.

[Dan Blanchett]

I believe the Cooke 20-100 has a 144mm front element. The MB-20 only goes up to 136mm. So you'll probably need the MB-14.

That's what I thought. I wish RED was releasing their 50-150 zoom sooner, then I would not to need to buy a Cooke. Maybe I'll just rent the bigger zooms until it is available, which means the MB-20 is probably the most versatile option for me.

Is price the only reason to get MB-20 II over the MB-20? Which has better long-term resale value?

[chuck colburn]

I find it interesting that so many users are into the must have a zoom lens train of thought. Almost all fims ever made were/are shot with single focale length lenses. I can see the use of a zoom when shooting news or wildlife where the subject is out of your control but elsewise I'd take a prime over a zoom any day.

[Dan Blanchett]

I find it interesting that so many users are into the must have a zoom lens train of thought. Almost all fims ever made were/are shot with single focale length lenses. I can see the use of a zoom when shooting news or wildlife where the subject is out of your control but elsewise I'd take a prime over a zoom any day.

A zoom is not my preference, but when using it as a variable prime as I intend to, seems like it can be a time-saver on tighter shooting schedules. If I could afford a set of quality, fast primes, I would take that over slower speed zooms. I have projects coming up that require varying focal lengths--mostly wide, but many at the long end as well. RED's prime set looks attractive, but when is it coming out? Next summer? Another option is to buy the 18-50 zoom and one good 85 or 100mm standard prime. Or rent long lenses as needed, which is what I'm leaning toward now. But given the amount of shooting I have planned, renting may not be practical either.

[Adrian T.]

I'm also interested in buying an Arri mattebox. But I'm still waiting for CVB's offer...

[Brad Thomas Hill]

I would be very interested in the MB-20II matte box and the FF-4 follow focus

[Jay A. Kelley]

The answers are coming guys. Hang in there.
Jay

[Michael Lindsay]

Hi Jay

I sent you a PM but incase you missed it: I too would be very interested in the MB-20II matte box and the FF-4 follow focus..

thanks

Michael Lindsay

[Jay A. Kelley]

I got it Michael.. We'll be getting back to you
Jay

[Rocco Schult]

Hi,

I got a question: As many here are jumping on the train, which is a great thing (thanks for bringing this up Jay!), I wonder how man people may pay so soon.
I mean, maybe somebody wants, but must wait until, well, all the accessories are clear or the insurance trustees payback is due or whatever is needed to really have the money.
What I am talking about is BUY NOW, PAY LATER.
This might be achieved by ordering it whenever this summary is done, but the delivery etc. is done in a 2nd chunk. And payment is due for the second chunk due, say 4 or 8 weeks later.
It must be on a decision-basis, as the supplier can only guarantee rebate on a certain guaranteed amount. But this way another 2 or 3 percent might be possible and even more people can benefit from this deal, as well as the supplier.

I am one of those who thinks: This is a little bit early now...but I'd like to.

[david farland]

I have a price list of all Arri parts for MB-20-II & MB-20 matte boxes.
It gives you pricing of matte boxes and individual components such as trays, lens adapters, rod adapters, flags etc.
Note: You will need this as you work out your individual lens/rod mounting options.

It's helpful to view this price list with the Arri diagram pdf’s on Arri’s web site found here (http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/configuration_overview/index.htm) (See diagrams -5.65"x5.65" MATTE BOX - MB-20 System I & System II).

Note these are not the bulk buy discount prices that Jay will be posting.

Anyone interested please PM me and I’ll post you the price list (excel spreadsheet).

Cheers,

David

[Jay A. Kelley]

I think we're close to a deal that everyone can live with. I should know more by Mid Next week. Will be on a shoot, so things might be a little quiet, but rest assured, this deal WILL HAPPEN.

Eric (Our main Arri guy) is busting his butt to make this happen, and we had a bit of a breakthrough today.

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

I have a price list of all Arri parts for MB-20-II & MB-20 matte boxes.
It gives you pricing of matte boxes and individual components such as trays, lens adapters, rod adapters, flags etc.
Note: You will need this as you work out your individual lens/rod mounting options.

It's helpful to view this price list with the Arri diagram pdf’s on Arri’s web site found here (http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/configuration_overview/index.htm) (See diagrams -5.65"x5.65" MATTE BOX - MB-20 System I & System II).

Note these are not the bulk buy discount prices that Jay will be posting.

Anyone interested please PM me and I’ll post you the price list (excel spreadsheet).

Cheers,

David

I have seen this list.. Very specific, very professional, VERY confusing. Any questions? ASK DAVID!
:)

I'll be coming to you with a recommendation from Arri of what RED owners need, then you can tweak it with the REP we end up working with. But it's cool David has the list to show everyone!

Jay

[Tim Lüdin]

Thank's for your time Jay. Looking forward to the list.
Till then.

Cheers
Tim

[Mark Pedersen]

Jay,

Thanks for taking the time to lead this effort. Looking forward to seeing the list as well.

Best,
Mark

[Mark Pedersen]

Hi Jay,

What's the status on this? I sent you a PM and am very interested in the MB 20 II and FF4 buy. Can you reply?

Thanks!

[Paul Moss]

Jay......
Count me in for MB-20II and FF4...!
Love the work your doing, thanks....!
nice Matte Box info from Dave Mc as well
Thanks guys.....
Paul

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Hi Jay,

I've also sent you a PM and is curious in how we are to proceed with this?

Thanks,

fred

[nick allsop]

i am also interested in getting an MB 20 II and FF4. i am looking forward to seeing what deal can be done. i am not very familliar with the MB 20 II can you get trays for it that takes 4x4 filters. i normally work with MB 16 and MB 14. i am based in the UK will this be a problem.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Hi,

I just want to clarify that I'm not interested in an MB20. I don't think it's enough for me and when shooting I've usually used the MB 16 and then for wider lenses etc, MB 14. So I want to purchase those 2 + one LMB 4 as well. So I hope this group purchase is about ARRI equipment and not one kind of a Mattebox only.


Thanks,


fred

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Ohh sorry :blush: I need an FF4 as well :weight_lift:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jay,

Even with the upcoming mattebox info from RedRock, I think it would be wise to continue on this course for the ARRI power buy. Let's not pull the plug yet like has been mentioned in today's mattebox thread.

Also, if I decide to spring for a RR mattebox, I'll probably still be very interested in that FF4.

[david farland]

Agreed Jeff,
I haven't seen much about the New Mattebox news (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5666)thread that would worry me too much.
On paper the Red Rock ($500) sounds like it is good value but really it sounds a little like Arri buyers are in another market. We're shopping for a porsche and they announce a new honda.

The stuff I'm looking for in any Matte Box is this:

Quality of build/parts.
Functionality - lots of good options that work well!
Maturity of product - road tested and I know doesn't break.
Flexibility - adaptable accessories I can throw anything at.
Pre sales Support-I've been bugging the living bejesus out of the local Oz rep and he (mainly) keep coming back answering all my questions.
Post sales Support- Wait and see but I'm expecting the kind of support Red is giving post sales....oh yeah....it breaks and local Arri give me a replacement loan.
Price - Huge discount wanted (Go Jay). The more discount, the less all the noise is heard.
Resale value & Hire appeal - Speaks for itself.

Obviously it's a personal choice and the $500 RedRock may be right for some & a $5K will be right for others. The real trick is what weight you place on the above individual criteria.

Same goes for CVB's offering. If it only fulfilled half the above at half the price I'd probably still go with the Arri.

Saying that, I hope it is the Arri killer at $1K or $2K but actually delivering most of the above in the next couple of months may stretch them harder than Jim was in the weeks leading up to the Red release.

Like everything, saying stuff is one thing...actually is, is another!

Cheers,

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Agree too!

I would prefer Arri - simply because it´s the industry leader, recognised by all. With an arri kit my RED would fit in the hands of everyone.

I want to get the details of this deal- if they are reasonable I am ready to move ahead on fairly short notice!

[PaulClements]

I also agree, even though I started the thread about the RR and will very likely be picking one up, if I could afford the ARRI I would certianly buy it. And the probability that one day I will own one is very high indeed.

Jay should very definitely continue with this as it's a very good idea indeed. I simply posted the other thread just in case people had given up on RR or Curt, both of which seem to be alive and kicking in one form or another.

My apologies Jay, didn't mean to cause you any kind of headache. And David all of your points are very good ones.

Paul

[Jay A. Kelley]

Thanks Paul,

Everything is cool guys, we are moving forward.. Just waiting on a final word from Arri which should be Tues or Wed. Our guy is in Germany at a sales meeting right now.

Once that is done I have to do one last shop-around for the best rates from a vendor. Once that's done, then I will be able to post what I have with a recommended list.

As for the MB-14. I am not sure, I will look into it. Arri said the MB-20 works for every lens except the optimo's. Those are huge.

I will do what I can for you, but no promises. I am only sure of the MB-20 and MB-20II.

We are working on the FF-4s as well.. I hope to have some photos of this product for you all soon

Jay

[Dan Blanchett]

I'm happy this is still on track. It will be an interesting week in the matte box world. I'm keeping an open mind.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Jay,

I have to admit that as a Cinematographer I'm very unsure about the MB 20. 1st of all it's not a 19mm system. You need an adapter for that. The MB 20 is clearly created for EFV/ENG work, yes it's adapted to work with film camera gear as well, but it's not ideal (as I see it). 2nd of all I hate 4*5.65 filters, they annoy the sxxt out of me (pardon my french) and I know I'm not the only one that thinks so. Yes they're handy sometimes but the occasions they're handy for me are few. What if I suddenly need to go handheld and I need to be extremely light weight and for unknown reasons need to tape the filters onto the lens (I do it all the time). Well then I have a lot of glass sticking out on the sides. Then what is all this about the new filter formats they support 5*5 , 5.65*5.65 etc. As if we don't have enough of them already? The 3rd reason for me is a simple YES I need the MB 14 because I will use the Optimo and that quite often. I will also very often use anamorphic lenses and they definitely need 6*6. There will also be occasions when I will use wider lenses than 18mm - up to 10mm and at that point I'll need a 6*6 MB 14 mattebox. So I think my point is that I really want the MB 14 and the MB 16. Now I personally don't see why ARRI would have a problem with that since it only means more business for them. Unless they're trying to get rid of their MB 20's :w00t: (sorry ARRI couldn't help myself). I will investigate with some people and see what they say about the MB 20 as a mattebox from a cine POW. Until then, please ask and sort out with ARRI so this is about a group buy for ARRI equip and not for a MB 20 mattebox.
Thank you Jay don't think we don't apprecite your efforts here :weight_lift:.

It's just that people have different preferences.


fred

[david farland]

Fred,
You can buy a dedicated 19mm adapter (studio console)which takes the place of the 15mm lightweight adapter. This means the MD20 is a dedicated 19mm system. Arri have told me the 19mm studio console (K2.55032) places the Matte box at the same optical axis height as 19mm adapter you mentioned. I'm asking for drawings thou. As for size, 5.65 had the most support in all the thread posted here (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=101365&postcount=58). Having said that I too am hoping Arri will allow other matte boxes...bit like the o'connor thread. I know Jay's been chipping away at them.
Let's see how far they'll mix and match so as not to lose sales.

Dave,

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Thanks Dave for your info.

I know that you can change the studio console with the MB 16 but don't know if you can with the MB 20. As far as I can see from all PDF's and pics provided by ARRI they have an adapter. Now I haven't checked this with ARRI so I don't know. As I said I will check the MB 20 with my colleagues to see what they think about them from a "film" DP POW. I do though know that I've never been keen on the 4*5.65 filters and most of my fellow DP's and camera assitants aren't either. Now these is based on shooting film only. I can't speak for digital media such as HD since non of my colleagues does shoot that. Now I am going to make inqueries to see what the word is about the MB 20, who knows maybe it's brilliant. I do though know that I need an MB 14 and if you check the thread made by sharkguy called "1st AD...." you'll see why. Me to will be shooting with optimo and similar wide lenses.

So far my list would be MB 14, 16 and an LMB 4 (most probably) and an FF4

But I have no problem of changing the MB 16 to MB 20 if proven wrong.


fred

[Tim Lüdin]

Hey guys what's the widest primelens you can use
with the mb20II?

RED will have a 15mm soon. Will this one work?

What about a 12mm elite?

Cheers
Tim

[Greg M]

MB20 works perfectly on 19mm rods...I use it all the time on a 435.

[david farland]

Hey guys what's the widest primelens you can use
with the mb20II?

RED will have a 15mm soon. Will this one work?

What about a 12mm elite?

Cheers
Tim

Question to Arri : What is the widest lens I could but on the Red/MB20 configuration. Red has an S35mm sensor (24.4mm x 13.7mm) so I expect it would be similar to other S35mm stocks/cameras. Any ideas?

Answer (Arri) According to the measurements above the Red-sensor seems to be similar to the D20-sensor in size. It is situated somewhere between S35DIN (24mmx18mm) and S35ANSI (24.9mmx18.7mm).The 13.7mm of course are tribute to 16:9. I can’t tell if the Red-Cam has a 4:3 sensor like the D20 or if the sensor ends at 16:9.

Comments: Over the phone with Arri, I’m told that a 14mm lens on the Arri D20 with a MB20 is fine but a 12mm may cause problems.
Note: I'd expect there would be other considerations like filter size (I think it was 5.65...will check), number of filter trays and other stuff I don't know.

Hope that helps. I’m sure this requires more investigation.

Dave,

[Greg M]

10mm and 12mm lenses usually come with a clip-on matte box from the rental house. The MB20 will not cover a 12mm lens, but how many times do you use a 12mm or 10mm and why would you want to carry around a larger matte box and filter set just for those few occasions? In those cases I use the LMB-4A clip on.
Personally I prefer the MB20 as a overall matte box for daily use over the 14.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Digitalfx there's no question that the MB20 is a better overall mattebox to the MB14 for daily use. That's not what I'm saying. I'm questioning that i would prefer it to the MB16 as an daily mattebox. As for me wanting a MB14 well that's simply because I quite often shoot with anamorphics and have now taken the plunge and bought myself a full set, therefor I need the MB14. It's very rare that I shoot with the 10 or the 12 even though I have them as well but I do very often shoot with the Optimo, which also needs the MB14. So my guess is that I need an MB14 about 35% of the time which I see as enough for buying one. Why I don't have one from before is simply because I was about to get an 235 or an ARRI lite before I got hooked on ordering the RED but I didn't have my own camera. Not until very soon :biggrin:


fred

[Greg M]

Fred,
I wasnt questioning your needs, I was really just answering the general question by most of the new users on the board.
Obviously you know what you need as do I...I was really addressing the others that had questions.
I think between our two posts they should have enough info to decide whats right for them.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Digitalfx,

Still on the topics I hoped to steal a little of your wisdom when it comes to the MB20. You most probably have experience with both that one and the MB 16 and even if you don't I'd like to know your feelings about it, since you use it with the 435. How do you compare them both and how do you find it. I've prefered the 4*4 filters in the past and I do filter heavily. I'm an old timer in that aspect and like to try to make it as much as possible in camera.

Thanks,

fred

[Tim Lüdin]

Hey thank you very much for the infos guys.

Cheers
Tim

[Greg M]

4X4 filters are fine on all the primes except 10-14mm..the majority of my filters are 4X4.
The only problem is if you need to rotate the filter (grads, etc), then 4X4 is a bit limiting. I dont own any filters larger than 4X5.65, I usually just rent what I need with the package if I need larger filters for zooms or wa glass.

The main reason I prefer the MB20 is because I dont have any 6x6 filters...they are both great choices though.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I know it's been quiet.. Our Arri guy is in Germany working deals.. We'll get this rolling when he returns in a week or so...

I have not forgotten!
Jay

[Alexander Nikishin]

FYI, a 4x4 filter will vignette on the RED 18-50 at 18mm.

This is based off of experience.

[Alexander Nikishin]

How much heavier is the MB14 to the MB20?

[Fredrik Callinggard]

It's not unusual to get vignette from the 18mm. If your using the MB16 (or 20? don't know so much about the 20 though) and your having 1 or sometimes 2 filter, it's possible to "push" the mattebox back to the glass of the lens, but not always. When that happen you usually end up taping the filters onto the lens. I do it all the time since I tend to use quite a lot of filter. Now with RED being 320 asa and all I can easily see situations were I use several ND's to get the aperture to a nice DOF. On top of that it's possible that I might use grads and maybe a color filter (I know what your going to say - Do that in post! but I'm old school that way). So I can easily see myself having 4 filter if not more, needing bigger mattebox, that plus the fact that I will have lenses that need the MB14. As for the MB 14, it is bigger, substantially so. The mattebox itself is not the worst, it's the filters. They're big and heavy (especially together) but hey if you want a nice picture you might as well work out a little for it.

[Alexander Nikishin]

A fully loaded MB14 runs for around 14K apparently, yikes!

Does anyone know if Arri still sells the FF3?

[david farland]

they're still quoting on it.
Just under $A8K for a FF3 with 2 speed knob, extension, speed handle and a couple of gears.

[Alexander Nikishin]

I've used the FF4 and 5, I take it the FF3's advantages are the multi speed knob?

[Greg M]

FYI, a 4x4 filter will vignette on the RED 18-50 at 18mm.

This is based off of experience.

thats because of the hood...prime lenses get closer to the filter

[david farland]

When Jay posts his deal (on his guys return) I'll be posting a similiar priced deal for aussi's that don't want a grey warranty arrangement from buying overseas. Knowing what the other was prepared to offer seems to have worked well


cheers,

ps: FF3 takes 2 speed knob as standard, FF4 you can have 2 speed as option.

[Jay A. Kelley]

they're still quoting on it.
Just under $A8K for a FF3 with 2 speed knob, extension, speed handle and a couple of gears.

The follow focus 3 is old technology and being replaced by 4 and 5

I am told....

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

For the record, I do not have any information about this deal being a grey market situation at this point. I have been told how our Arri contact will service the equipment you buy, but I have NOT been told how they will NOT service the equipment you buy.

To be honest, I have not asked that much or demanded it in writing as of yet. Why? Well, put simply there was not a deal that blew up my skirt enough to move on to the warrenty situation yet. I need to know core of the deal we have is a winner before I start dealing with the additional issues.

I am not wild about how long Arri has taken to get this together. I know people have committments, but this is not rocket science. I sent a proposal, and all we need is a "yes" or "no". That said, if our contact has been working all this time in our best interests, then I am happy to wait. I'll reserve final judgement on all this once I see the "RESULTS" of the wait.

I aplolgize for being so hush-hush about the deal (And I am grateful to David for honoring that decision by holding on his until I release mine) but I know REDUsers since I am one. Once I post this thing, it HAS to be good and final. Lots of changes will be a nightmare and not worth anyone's time.

I am sure that, for some, this deal will make a lot of sense, and for others it will not be good enough. We'll need 20 MB-20IIs to get the pricing. A lot of you have asked about other Matteboxes... Once again.. We need the core deal in place before I want to move onto other issues. However based on current response, we have more than enough parts to move forward.

This deal is NOTHING like Steve Tammi's O'Connor buy.. There are a buttload of pieces that must be dealt with. I am happy to do it. I love this community and it's because of how we all stick together that makes stuff like this possible.

Jay

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Jay,

Steve's O'connor deal was simply that we all got one dedicated sales person to contact and inform with what we individually needed. That person would then take the order in full and decide the "size" of it and come up with an overall discount. Wouldn't that be a good solution in this case as well? For example if I need equipment for 20K. Well wouldn't that just "help" in the total order or am I completely lost here?

fred

[Fredrik Callinggard]

And have you totally disregarded me without asking since your saying that you have an order for 20 20MB's. I know I have distressed my need for MB 14's but I have not said I wouldn't go for a 20MB. I've just said I'm not familiar with it and need to know more. I have sent you a PM letting you know my interest and I have of course been posting on this thread but you have still not answered me. In you saying you have an order means that I've been lost in translation somewhere on the line?

fred

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Fred, forgive me for interfering...
But all of your questions have been answered by Jay already - nothing seems lost in translation. (take the time and read Jays posts carefully)

Jay is just a guy, spending his time so that we all can get a (hopefully) great deal, he is not getting paid - so let´s give him a break.

Jay says, the numbers will be here in a few days, and that any discussion on related items can be made then, just chill and wait it out - it will hopefully be worth it!

Thanks again for the initiative Jay!

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Jay & Eirik,


Your absolutely right I have misunderstood as I skimmed through Jay's post I interpreted it as if there already was 20 orders not that that was what is needed as a minimum. I apologies and want to say that if my posts seemed, in any way, harshly critical to what your actually doing Jay it wasn't meant to be. It was only distressing my concerns of being worried that I would maybe not be able to catch this train so to speak.


fred

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Again my apologies. This time for the bad grammar. I've slept 1 hr and just came back from a recce. I have 3hrs to catch up with sleep before I have to start again, so my post was/ is hastily written.

[Eric Trageser]

I am new to reduser.net, and I see a lot of converstaion here regarding purchases of matte boxes. I understand that posting of equipment for sale on Reduser.net is done in the Jobs / Equipment for Hire Forum: If you look there you will find some equipment I have just put up for sale that may be what you're looking for.
Best,
Eric Trageser
trageser1@mac.com

[david farland]

Thanks for the info. It's nice to know the Arri boxes hold their price.

[Jay A. Kelley]

This has been a major thing. I will try to keep it simple. Ok let's look at the deal first. This will ONLY apply to a MB-20II.

Here is the basic package you would buy:

Filter Frame 4x5.65 229.88
MB-20II Two Tray 3436.59
Side Flags 506.98
Filter Tray Combo 261.95
138mm Filter Ring 285.12
MB-20II Top Flag 213.84
19mm Adaptor 301.16
Light Trap 63.26

If you purchase this package you would pay around $5298.78 (Street Price).
Under Arri's deal, you would get the following FREE:
MB-20II Top Flag $213.00
19 or 15mm Adaptor $301.16
138mm Filter Ring $285.12

This comes out to a discount of $800.12.
You actual cost on the Mattebox would be $4,498.66

Some quick points:
You CANNOT change the items Arri is giving away with this deal.

This deal applies ONLY to the MB-20II and 20 units MUST be ordered for the deal to take effect.

Arri is going to offer this deal ONLY ONCE. It will not come this way again.

As for warrenty: This is an ARRI product, it will be covered by any ARRI dealer no matter where you are. If you have a problem, there will be a number to call.

Ok that's the basic deal as it stands.

Pricing on the package may still yet go down a little, but I do not expect a HUGE drop from what you see here (Maybe $50 - $100 less).

I have a pretty sweet deal on the Follow Focus 4 as well.. Will post that later.

So we're doing well. I will let you all know how we will go about ordering soon

Jay

For those of you who wanted a different Mattebox.. I cannot combine them into this deal.. I am very sorry.. I did try hard. ARRI says they will try to work with you as best they can

[david farland]

Well done....will post Aussi deal soon.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thank you for putting this together, Jay! It's looking like it could be a good deal. I'm very eager to see what the purchase window will be too and what sort of deal will be available on the FF4.


Arri is going to offer this deal ONLY ONCE. It will not come this way again.

:sarcasm: uh, huh.... :sarcasm: I do have to pick a nit here. I've seen deals on ARRI gear before and I know we'll see them again. This exact deal may be a one-time, exclusive offer, but I just don't want anyone to feel pressured to buy into this if they are unsure.

Purchase timing is going to be a huge factor for myself and I'm sure many others.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Nice!

Can you give us the details on the FF4 deal please?

[Jay A. Kelley]

Follow Focus Information:

When you purchase the FF-4. Your 19mm or 15mm mount adaptor is FREE.
This is over a $600.00 value.

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

Thank you for putting this together, Jay! It's looking like it could be a good deal. I'm very eager to see what the purchase window will be too and what sort of deal will be available on the FF4.



:sarcasm: uh, huh.... :sarcasm: I do have to pick a nit here. I've seen deals on ARRI gear before and I know we'll see them again. This exact deal may be a one-time, exclusive offer, but I just don't want anyone to feel pressured to buy into this if they are unsure.

Purchase timing is going to be a huge factor for myself and I'm sure many others.

Jeff,

I think you better believe them. This deal went in a few directions that ARRI really did not want it to go (David can back me up on this). They are going forward and honoring this deal in order to "keep the peace" and to get a lot of REDUsers on board. But I have been connected to this long enough to be able to tell you that this deal is not coming to us without a little pain. As RED likes to say, anything can change, but if I were you, I plan on jumping on this train before Dec 10th (The deadline). If my ARRI guy gets his way, this deal will not come back in his lifetime.

I am not a saleman here.. Just giving you my opinion.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Follow Focus Information:

When you purchase the FF-4. Your 19mm or 15mm mount adapter is FREE.
This is over a $600.00 value.

Jay

What is the total price on the FF-4?

I'm assuming the FF-4 comes with a native 15mm w/ 100mm studio configuration?

If so, that means we would be able to choose between a 15mm w/ 60mm spacing adapter or a 19mm w/ 104mm spacing adapter?

[Greg M]

the FF4 comes with the 15mm lightweight config. standard. The 15mm and 19mm studio are both optional.

[Ken Willinger]

If my ARRI guy gets his way, this deal will not come back in his lifetime.
I'm not saying it's not true, but I've heard similar lines from car salesmen as well. Pressure for sales is pressure for sales no matter how honest and forthright it seems. I think I'm going to wait to see what Curt and RED have in store and in that way not feel pressured into a sale, even though I'd like the ARRI. My feeling is there will be some very affordable good tools available soon. I just hate feeling pressured by a deadline for a sale that will "not come back in his lifetime".

[Mark Pedersen]

Hi Jay,

If it's not too much trouble, could you list the corresponding Arri part number for each item, so we can be clear about what all is included in the "package" – especially the "MB20 II two tray"? I assume it's what Arri lists as their standard mattebox "kit" (Basic module + 2 filter stage + Back 138mm belows adapter + swing away module + Console for lightweight support) everything else is considered optional by Arri. And what diameter is the light trap? Or can you order whatever?

Also can you give us the pricing on the FF4 and what's included (part numbers).

This appears to be a better deal than I was getting on other quotes.

Here's the link to the Arri Configuration guide:
http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/configuration_overview/manuals/pdfs/CO_671_2006_11_MB-20_II.pdf

Thanks!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think you better believe them. This deal went in a few directions that ARRI really did not want it to go (David can back me up on this). They are going forward and honoring this deal in order to "keep the peace" and to get a lot of REDUsers on board.

Oh, I don't doubt this is a special deal and the odds of it repeating are very slim. I was just saying that I don't want to see anyone feel pressured by that. I have seen discounts and specials on ARRI gear before, but it is very rare. Coincides with blue moons and other rare celestial events...

I'm tempted to jump on the bandwagon here because I know what I'm getting and it's all fine and great and I could move on with my life. OTOH, there are so many things I'd like to augment my RED kit with, I'm having a hard time swallowing about $9K for a mattebox and follow focus. Ah, what to do...

[Finner]

Ah, what to do...

Hi Jeff

I have spent a lot of time on the phone and over e-mails discussing pro's/con's and most everything mattebox and remote follow focus with CVB. Curt is very talented and smart to boot. I have no doubt his matte box and focus system will shake up all the competition with it's quality, features and price. The only real question is when? I sure hope it is soon but he has been quite quiet around here for a while now. For people that have the patience and the time to wait I can see it being well worth their while.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Hi Jeff

I have spent a lot of time on the phone and over e-mails discussing pro's/con's and most everything mattebox and remote follow focus with CVB. Curt is very talented and smart to boot. I have no doubt his matte box and focus system will shake up all the competition with it's quality, features and price. The only real question is when? I sure hope it is soon but he has been quite quiet around here for a while now. For people that have the patience and the time to wait I can see it being well worth their while.

Damn you Darren, I'm soo close to going for the Arri gear, but I do trust CVB and RED's colabo........

Not to mention I'd save a pretty penny I'm sure.

Well hey, I was looking to plop down about 25k on MB, FF, Field Monitor, MacBook, maybe now I'll reconsider that route and go for;

O'Connor 2060 w/ sticks - around $9,500
Marshall V-R231P-AFHDPG 23" HD LCD Monitor - $5,400
8 Core Mac system with 30" Apple display - around $10,000

Decisions, decisions.

[Gian Joon]

I would trust CVB anytime as well. The price/quality factor will be no doubt better than rest. But does anyone know how far are we in getting it from CVB


____________________________
For 6 Hours Red#1775 was mine, Then THEYtook it back

[david farland]

As for warrenty: This is an ARRI product, it will be covered by any ARRI dealer no matter where you are. If you have a problem, there will be a number to call.....


Jay,

You know it concerns me how the warranty support will be outside the US.

How will Eric handle this?

I'm not talking about taking your Arri kit on a production overseas, it breaks and they fix it under warranty.

I'm talking your local Arri rep knows you, knows you didn't buy it from his region (serial #) and you ask him to fix/give replacement under warranty.

My concern is any Arri dealer other than Arri Inc will be pissed for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, warranty is worth something ($$) to these guys as extra kit/labour is required to support this new kit.
Next, they missed the sale so now you're asking them to fix it...cos Eric said so!! I hope when Eric says he'll make it happen he will, however I need to know how and don't want to see some return to the US and we'll fix it for free deal!

So what's the deal?

Don't mean to give you a hard time cos I think you're done a fantastic job here but feel it important everyone knows exactly what the warranty arrangements will be.

Cheers,

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay,

You know it concerns me how the warranty support will be outside the US.

How will Eric handle this?

I'm not talking about taking your Arri kit on a production overseas, it breaks and they fix it under warranty.

I'm talking your local Arri rep knows you, knows you didn't buy it from his region (serial #) and you ask him to fix/give replacement under warranty.

My concern is any Arri dealer other than Arri Inc will be pissed for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, warranty is worth something ($$) to these guys as extra kit/labour is required to support this new kit.
Next, they missed the sale so now you're asking them to fix it...cos Eric said so!! I hope when Eric says he'll make it happen he will, however I need to know how and don't want to see some return to the US and we'll fix it for free deal!

So what's the deal?

Don't mean to give you a hard time cos I think you're done a fantastic job here but feel it important everyone knows exactly what the warranty arrangements will be.

Cheers,

It's cool David,

You've been a big help behind the scenes. Tell you what, I am going to send your Post to Eric, and ask him to write back a response I can post on here.. Perhaps that will be the ultimate fix!

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

This will be pretty straightforward.

The first thing I will need to do it get a list of people who are DAMN SURE that want in on this deal.. This means, when it comes time to put in your order, ONLY SEND IT IN IF YOU KNOW KNOW KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT.

I'll give an E-mail address for you to send the order too.
IMPORTANT: THIS IS NOT YOUR ACTUAL ORDER. It's just a way for me to insure we have enough numbers before we move this to the next step.

THE ACTUAL ORDER DEADLINE IS DEC 10th

Once I have enough orders, then I will give you all the name, phone number, and E-mail of our vendor. I will also get together a basic recommendation package, part numbers, etc for you so you know what to ask for.

Then you contact the vendor, place your order and DONE!

You have to buy the core MB-20II mattebox. You can change or swap any thing else you wish at this point. Just remember, your top flag, 15mm or 19mm adaptor, and 138mm filter ring are coming free. That will not change. (I made sure to get you parts you HAVE to have.. Not parts you don't need).

As for the follow Focus 4. Same deal.. Order extra wheels, or more marking discs... Whatever.. But the adaptor will come free.

It should be a very simple thing.

That E-mail address will come along shortly. I am getting some demo units so I can show you all some things.

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

ok guys here we go.

Send the following information:

Name
E-Mail address
Phone Number
City State

# of MB-20II Matteboxes you want
# of Follow Focus 4 units you want

That's it. I DO NOT NEED A PARTS BREAKDOWN.

I just need to know the amount of basic packages you are ordering.

Don't write if you are not SURE you are going to do this. We need an accurate count.

Here's the address to write too:

dreamwelder@yahoo.com

I'll get things together on this end.

Jay
:bleh:

[PaulClements]

How much is a FF4 then? Maybe I'm blind but I cannot seem to find a price for it.

Paul

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I have spent a lot of time on the phone and over e-mails discussing pro's/con's and most everything mattebox and remote follow focus with CVB. Curt is very talented and smart to boot. I have no doubt his matte box and focus system will shake up all the competition with it's quality, features and price. The only real question is when? I sure hope it is soon but he has been quite quiet around here for a while now. For people that have the patience and the time to wait I can see it being well worth their while.

Yep... And this is the whole basis to my hesitation. That and the new offerings from Vocas look excellent as well and are also significantly cheaper. I'm still thinking this over... Probably thinking about it way more than I should.

[Babu Kantamneni]

How much is a FF4 then? Maybe I'm blind but I cannot seem to find a price for it.

Paul

Nope.You have 20/20.
You cant see what is not there.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Price for Follow Focus 4 is $4078 at this time..

TAKE OFF $600 since the adaptor is free.

So it's around $3400.00

The gears are extra, but everyone will buy the one that works for them

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

Hello Jay,

“ARRI Camera Accessories are warranted to be free of material and workmanship defects for a period of one year from the date of shipment.“ That being said, we have worldwide product/ parts support for everything we manufacture.

This same service is available from our subsidiaries worldwide. If a warranty situation arises while traveling abroad I am happy to put the customer in direct contact with their closest ARRI representative. We stand behind the fact that our products are the best in the industry. This is the reason ARRI is currently celebrating our 90th anniversary- few companies can make such a claim. The FF-4 and MB-20 II spare parts diagrams can be found online @ ARRI.com and subsidiaries can sell parts al la carte directly to the end user. I hope this helps to alleviate any concerns you have.


If you ever have any problems, I will personally take care of issues for this group. The way we handle this is:

- the customer sends it to our shop in NY or CA (they are responsible for shipping to ARRI)
- we evaluate if this is actually a warranty issue arising from material or workmanship defect
- repair as necessary and ship back to customer (we pay for return shipping.)


Best regards,

Eric J. Johnston
Product Manager
Camera Accessories
ARRI, Inc.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Would anyone in the know like to expand on the differences between the ARRI FF-3 and FF-4 for me? They're both two-speed FF units. The FF-4 has a lower profile than the FF3, sitting much lower on your rods. I can't seem to actually identify any functional differences. I'm just assuming that the FF-4 is the newer, better version.

Also, what is the final price of the FF-4 package through this deal? I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do here.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Would anyone in the know like to expand on the differences between the ARRI FF-3 and FF-4 for me? They're both two-speed FF units. The FF-4 has a lower profile than the FF3, sitting much lower on your rods. I can't seem to actually identify any functional differences. I'm just assuming that the FF-4 is the newer, better version.

Also, what is the final price of the FF-4 package through this deal? I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do here.

Follow Focus 3 is older technology. I am told by ARRI.

Jay

[Jim Exton]

Price for Follow Focus 4 is $4078 at this time..

TAKE OFF $600 since the adaptor is free.

So it's around $3400.00

The gears are extra, but everyone will buy the one that works for them

Jay

I am a little confused. Is $3400 the final price with the adaptor? Or is it the effective price since the adaptor is being thrown in for free, but the total cost is still $4078.

And is this dual sided? I assume it is.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Follow Focus 3 is older technology. I am told by ARRI.

That's what I'm thinking... The FF-3 is a bulkier unit, but seems functionally equivalent to the FF-4. I'm asking because a local rental house still has two FF-3 units in their rental gear that they would be willing to sell. I don't know about price yet, but I may pursue that avenue if the money is right.

I just wanted to make sure, since the FF-3 is a physically larger unit, that it won't inhibit my possible lens selection compared to the FF-4.

[Jay A. Kelley]

From Eric:

Jay,

FF-3 vs FF-4

FF3 is dedicated to either 15mm or 19mm Bridgeplate support; there is no lightweight support option. The FF-4 is the newer model that incorporates LWS, 15mm and 19mm support options. The FF-4 is much better suited for larger diameter cine-lenses as it has a lager lens barrel to FF body clearance. Both units have the same gear ratio and will accept a two speed focus knob. The FF-4 is the correct choice for Red users.

Regards,

Eric J. Johnston
Product Manager
Camera Accessories
ARRI, Inc.
617 Route 303
Blauvelt, NY 10913

[LAO]

What's the difference between the FF4 and FF5, for that matter?

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Hi Jeff

I have spent a lot of time on the phone and over e-mails discussing pro's/con's and most everything mattebox and remote follow focus with CVB. Curt is very talented and smart to boot. I have no doubt his matte box and focus system will shake up all the competition with it's quality, features and price. The only real question is when? I sure hope it is soon but he has been quite quiet around here for a while now. For people that have the patience and the time to wait I can see it being well worth their while.

Agree, no problem to wait for CVB, he will do a good job I'm shure.

[Jay A. Kelley]

FF5 is for video

[LAO]

FF5 for video? ... I'm clear now, thanks. I look forward to the FF4 and MB20II. How much for the remote and transmitter?

[Fredrik Callinggard]

About 40K give or take 5 (I think)

[Jay A. Kelley]

Guys I am trying to keep this thread focused on those who want an ARRI Mattebox.

I myself started with CVB. I wanted to use his Mattebox. But the bottom line is two fold:

1: There is no info on this mattebox, and no release date. My camera however, (Unless Jim drops a bomb tonight) is due in three weeks. I need to get shooting.

2: I know with ARRI, I will have everything I need.

It's that simple. If you don't want to pay the money for an ARRI Mattebox, then simply wait for CVB.. If you want an ARRI, then this is the thread for you!

What I DO need, is to find out who is serious about getting a mattebox, and/or follow focus. If less than 20 jump in, the deal's off.

There's not a lot of time

Jay

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I understand Jay and agree but I have some questions.

I know that at this point I seem like the annoying guy who seems completely ignorant and not content with all your hard work, but believe me I'm not. I know you said that you just want us to say yes or no, but there's a few questions that's not answered here?
1st you're not mentioning swing away module (or did I miss it somewhere)? Is this not in this base package. This is something really crucial today and you'll have a lot happier AC's with this. If it's not, is it then allowed to include it in the order (for additional cost)?
2nd This order is only for a 2 filter stage mattebox and not 3 filter stage. Can I change that in my order? Of course I understand the 3 filter cost a little more.

Reason for me asking is because an additional buy of this filter stage is another $3500 or so, isn't it?

Kind Regards,


Fredrik

[Alexander Nikishin]

Count me in for an FF-4...

As for matteboxes, I need a 6x6 stage so the MB-20 won't cut it.

Question, will we receive a discount on the additional gears and such as well?

[david farland]

“...... If a warranty situation arises while traveling abroad I am happy to put the customer in direct contact with their closest ARRI representative.
..........Few things.....

1. The quote above mentions a client travelling overseas (not buying from overseas) and doesn't say if the local rep will fix it under warranty free of charge. I assume the overseas Arri rep will fix free of charge.
Is this correct?

2. Eric doesn't mention the situation where he sells a Matte box to an overseas client and it breaks.
This is what all overseas buyers should think about!
Will the local Arri rep when the owner lives fix/replace/lend a spare under warranty.
Probably not!

So the deal looks like it's a grey warranty arrangement.

Next question....(see quote below)


......The way we handle this is:

- the customer sends it to our shop in NY or CA (they are responsible for shipping to ARRI)
- we evaluate if this is actually a warranty issue arising from material or workmanship defect
- repair as necessary and ship back to customer (we pay for return shipping.....

Is Eric saying that he will ship the matte box free of charge back to Australia ($180) or Kazicstan ($340) or will he ship free of charge in US only?

Sorry for the detailed questions but think it important overseas customers know exactly what the arrangements are.

Cheers,

Dave

[Jay A. Kelley]

I understand Jay and agree but I have some questions.

I know that at this point I seem like the annoying guy who seems completely ignorant and not content with all your hard work, but believe me I'm not. I know you said that you just want us to say yes or no, but there's a few questions that's not answered here?
1st you're not mentioning swing away module (or did I miss it somewhere)? Is this not in this base package. This is something really crucial today and you'll have a lot happier AC's with this. If it's not, is it then allowed to include it in the order (for additional cost)?
2nd This order is only for a 2 filter stage mattebox and not 3 filter stage. Can I change that in my order? Of course I understand the 3 filter cost a little more.

Reason for me asking is because an additional buy of this filter stage is another $3500 or so, isn't it?

Kind Regards,


Fredrik
Your questions are good ones:

The swing away is included in the quote I provided.
I think a third stage is about $300 more. That's all.
From what I am learning, I am not sure you need it.

1 stage is the ND
1 Stage is the grad
the round 138mm is the pola.
A third stage would be for a softening filter I suppose

Jay

[Greg M]

For those interested in the FF4, I posted some images of mine in another thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=110639#post110639

The base FF4 has just the LW support at the top. The bottom 19mm adapter is optional and screws into the bottom, which prevents use of the LW support w/o removing the 19mm (or 15mm studio) optional bracket first. This requires an allen wrench. In other words transitioning from LW 15mm to either 15mm or 19mm studio configurations takes a few minutes and a tool.

As you can see in the images the gear arm is short, which allows positioning under the lenses. The arm barely reaches my zeiss 2.1 lenses which are very compact lenses, but they do work fine with both the Ultra Primes and standard speed Zeiss lenses.

One other note: be sure to order the wide gears...the standard gears are too narrow for some lens/matte box combinations.

[Mark Pedersen]

Price for Follow Focus 4 is $4078 at this time..

TAKE OFF $600 since the adaptor is free.

So it's around $3400.00

The gears are extra, but everyone will buy the one that works for them

Jay


Jay,
The price on the FF4 seems high. The price on FilmTools' website is $2825. A right focus knob is $624 (so you have two). That's $3449 + a 15 or 19mm adapter at $512 is $3961. Were they including two focus knobs at that price?

If not, and that's the final price, I'd have to pass on the FF4 and just go with the Mattebox. Can you address my question earlier? Does the mattebox price include the following: (Basic module + 2 filter stage + Back 138mm bellows adapter + swing away module + Console for lightweight support). If so I'm good to go.

And as someone asked, can you substitute a 3 filter stage (with an upcharge of course)? Sounds like a 3 stage would be preferrable from other threads...

Pls advise. I'll send a PM to confirm the order once I hear back.

Thanks!

[Alexander Nikishin]

Jay,
The price on the FF4 seems high. The price on FilmTools' website is $2825. A right focus knob is $624 (so you have two). That's $3449 + a 15 or 19mm adapter at $512 is $3961. Were they including two focus knobs at that price?

I can't seem to find a link to the FF-4 on Filmtool's website, can you direct me?

[Jay A. Kelley]

Guys the prices on the items will be as good or better than what you are seeing. Filmtools is one of the vendors we are looking at. We are also looking at Abelcine. I will have pricing from them which I will post or send privately once I have it. But rememeber I AM NOT A VENDOR.

No matter what you buy from them in terms of your FF-4 package, ARRI will be giving you the 19mm or 15mm adaptor FREE. So we'll get the best price from Filmtools or Abel and then we'll get the adaptor free also.

So the way to approach this is: Expect the best possible price from Filmtools, or Abelcine, and then get the free stuff as well.

So Mark, if those are the prices you have found for the FF-4.. It will be that much or a little cheaper if I have anything to say about it. The numbers I quoted were a reference only so you would have an IDEA of what we are doing. What I was involved in was getting Arri to enhance any deal by the vendors by also offering certain needed parts and accessories for FREE.. Thereby lowering everyone's bottom line.

Based on the POTENTIAL numbers we are pushing, NONE of you should be able to get a better quote from Filmtools or AbelCine than I can.. If you do, then send it to me, and I will bust some heads... Nicely of course! :)

Hope this clears things up

Jay

PS So far only two people have written to dreamwelder@yahoo.com to tell me what they are going or order. If I don't see 20 letters of intent by Nov 30th then I may have to drop this. I am NOT being a hard ass here, it's just that my company is SLAMMED with work and I don't have time two push this to the last minute. If you want to do this, it's best to let me know sooner rather than later.

until then, keep asking questions and if I have answers, I will write, or I will get the answers.

Watch.. Now some wise-ass is going to ask me for lottery numbers.

:bleh:

[Jay A. Kelley]

Few things.....

1. The quote above mentions a client travelling overseas (not buying from overseas) and doesn't say if the local rep will fix it under warranty free of charge. I assume the overseas Arri rep will fix free of charge.
Is this correct?

2. Eric doesn't mention the situation where he sells a Matte box to an overseas client and it breaks.
This is what all overseas buyers should think about!
Will the local Arri rep when the owner lives fix/replace/lend a spare under warranty.
Probably not!

So the deal looks like it's a grey warranty arrangement.

Next question....(see quote below)



Is Eric saying that he will ship the matte box free of charge back to Australia ($180) or Kazicstan ($340) or will he ship free of charge in US only?

Sorry for the detailed questions but think it important overseas customers know exactly what the arrangements are.

Cheers,

Dave

David,

Lord knows we have been around and around about the warrenty situation.. So allow me to put this to rest once and for all.

I would personally recommend that any buyer in Aussie land NOT do this deal. You seem to have an ARRI dealer out there who is not wild about supporting ARRI products if they are not bought from him. This is against ARRI's policy, and I am sure that my typing this letter will make some waves in ARRI land, but perhaps that's a good thing.

As for the rest of you, I would suggest that if you are overseas, and worried about any type of support in terms of Warrenty that you have a chat with your local ARRI dealer and simply say "I have an MB-20II mattebox under warrenty and I may need some service, can you help me?" If he says "sure" (Which most of them do), you are fine! If he says "Well did you buy it from me?" ask him what difference that makes! If he gives you a hard time then give me his name and number and I will have Eric at ARRI call him. Or you can just back out of this deal.

ARRI is not made up of independant franchises.. It is ONE COMPANY with multiple dealers. They SHOULD all service ARRI products. But there are always a few jerks in every mix. Eric is saying, your local dealer should help you out, but if he doesn't, then I will help you out. They pay return shipping no matter where it is.. You pay for the shipping to ARRI.

This is as simple as I can make it.. Call it whatever you want, David calls it a Gray warrenty.. And for him, in his location, with his dealer, he's most likely right. But David's situation will not apply to all of you. Check it out for yourselves if you feel you need too.

A lot of you will not be within driving distance of an ARRI dealer anyway, so you will be able to send the equipment to a place that will service it.

Hope this helps!
David, let me know if this puts it to rest. I think it does.

Guys: David has been worried about the Warrenty situation since Day ONE.. You should all feel grateful he's looking out for everyone.

Jay

One more thing.. This deal is NOT being done with ARRI corporate in US.. You will be buying through a Vendor.. Most likely Filmtools or AbleCine.. It depends who wins the bid. So you should experience no Warrenty issues. Aussie is the exception, not the rule.

[Mark Pedersen]

Alex,

Here you go. Some products you have to do a search on.

http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch

Or...

http://www.filmtools.com/arri-ff4-follow-focus-381440.html

M

[david farland]

Jay,
Thanks for the explanation (and your patience).

On the following point,


.....They SHOULD all service ARRI products. But there are always a few jerks in every mix. Eric is saying, your local dealer should help you out, but if he doesn't, then I will help you out. They pay return shipping no matter where it is.. You pay for the shipping to ARRI.
........

Question: Is Eric saying this is Arri policy....and therefore if a Matte box is bought outside the US and is predominately used within the US, then his local dealers will fix the MB under warranty free of charge (except for postage one way).

Obviously if he's right, and this is the usual Arri worldwide policy, then other countries like Australia should do the same.

thanks,
Dave,

ps: Arri (aust) will fix all Arri products regardless of we're they're purchased, they just may charge a fee if not covered by Arri warranty conditions. I sound like an Arri employee!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Guys the prices on the items will be as good or better than what you are seeing. Filmtools is one of the vendors we are looking at. We are also looking at Abelcine. I will have pricing from them which I will post or send privately once I have it. But rememeber I AM NOT A VENDOR.

Jay,

This is good to know. I'm still sitting on the fence regarding the mattebox. However, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on committing to the FF-4. After looking into the FF-3 some more, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, unless I find a killer deal on a used one.

Edit> Request for lottery numbers deleted to avoid looking like a smart ass.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Email sent, thanks Jay!

[Finner]

ARRI warranty is 1 year. I have worked with very old very abused arri gear and it is as bomb-proof as gear comes. I doubt anyone would have any problems what so ever with any arri equipment that is less then a year old.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Your questions are good ones:

The swing away is included in the quote I provided.
I think a third stage is about $300 more. That's all.
From what I am learning, I am not sure you need it.

1 stage is the ND
1 Stage is the grad
the round 138mm is the pola.
A third stage would be for a softening filter I suppose

Jay

Thanks Jay,

Yes there will be times when you need it, believe me. Soft filter, additional ND grad or even color filter. It is nicer to do in camera and when we get used to the camera we will make LUTs in REDCine and download into camera and then spice it up with additional filters like chocolate. There's nothing that compares to have done your looks in camera. So I rather have the option than stand without it.

Cheers,

fred

[Mark Pedersen]

Your questions are good ones:

The swing away is included in the quote I provided.
I think a third stage is about $300 more. That's all.
From what I am learning, I am not sure you need it.

1 stage is the ND
1 Stage is the grad
the round 138mm is the pola.
A third stage would be for a softening filter I suppose

Jay

Jay,

Hopefully this might clear a few things up on what's included, etc. I looks like the MB that is being quoted is the "MB-20-System II, SET for Lightweight Support" that includes: The Basic Module, Swing Away Module, Console for lightweight Support, 2-filter stage, Back Bellows Adapter (138mm), top flag, side flags (pair of 2)"

It looks like this:

/Users/markpedersen/Documents/COMPANY/RED Camera/Arri Matte Box MB 20 II/cinemasupplies_1967_333073013.jpg

And they are throwing in:
• a 138mm filter ring (is that 100 or 114mm?)
• a 19mm adapter
• MB -20 II top flag (a bitchin looking flag btw)
• Light trap (which one? Any size?)

My understanding is the Red zooms have a 114mm front element diameter, and the 300mm prime is 117mm. So if you are going all Red lenses, you would need the 117mm large diameter light trap (k2.65069.0) and the 138mm to 114 filter ring. Although I think you can order a 114 mm light trap from the MB 20 configuration chart. If I have this wrong, somebody please chime in!

Filter stages and trays are a more personal matter it seems ;)

Anyway, Jay, I will send another PM with a spreadsheet listing what I want to order.

Thanks again for hustling on this.

M

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay,


And they are throwing in:
• a 138mm filter ring (is that 100 or 114mm?)
• a 19mm adapter
• MB -20 II top flag (a bitchin looking flag btw)
• Light trap (which one? Any size?)




M

Mark they are not throwing in a light trap. But the other three are a lock! They are thowing those in.

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay,
Thanks for the explanation (and your patience).

On the following point,


Question: Is Eric saying this is Arri policy....and therefore if a Matte box is bought outside the US and is predominately used within the US, then his local dealers will fix the MB under warranty free of charge (except for postage one way).

Obviously if he's right, and this is the usual Arri worldwide policy, then other countries like Australia should do the same.

thanks,
Dave,

ps: Arri (aust) will fix all Arri products regardless of we're they're purchased, they just may charge a fee if not covered by Arri warranty conditions. I sound like an Arri employee!

David you are exactly correct. ARRI is ARRI.. If you have an ARRI product under warrenty, then it's under warrenty. WHERE you bought it should make no difference. This is part of the reason ARRI justifies charging what they do. Support Support Support.

Glad to hear that news about ARRI Aust.. This means it's no longer a Gray warrenty situation out there.. As is should be.

So David.. How long HAVE you been working for ARRI? :)
(Kidding)

[Alexander Nikishin]

For anyone still looking for literature on all the Arri products and don't want to swim back for a number of pages, here's a link to their entire line-up.

http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/configuration_overview/index.htm

[Ivan G]

Someone asked if the 2 stage can be upgraded with a 3 stage and still no answer. Is this possible and of course the money difference?

[Tim Lüdin]

Hi guys, I would also hardly suggest a 3 stage tray.
The RED will need it.

Cheers
Tim

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Someone asked if the 2 stage can be upgraded with a 3 stage and still no answer. Is this possible and of course the money difference?


I asked and I believe that Jay answered with saying that it would be a cost of around $300 extra.

fred

[Ivan G]

Sorry, I must of missed it. Thanks for confirming!

[Jay A. Kelley]

I was just send the Mattebox Package and the follow focus 4. I will have photos and explainations of things in the next couple of days
Jay

[Tim Lüdin]

Hi Jay

Thanks for your great work. I have a question:

Does the Arri MB 20 II come with an arri case?
Same for the FF-4.

Usualy Arri ships its items with their branded cases.
That would be great. These cases can get expensive it we have to buy them seperately.

Thanks for the Infos.

Greets
Tim

[Tim Lüdin]

Hi Jay

Thanks for your great work. I have a question:

Does the Arri MB 20 II come with an arri case?
Same for the FF-4.

Usualy Arri ships its items with their branded cases.
That would be great. These cases can get expensive if we have to buy them seperately.

Thanks for the Infos.

Greets
Tim

[Jay A. Kelley]

Tim Don't THINK they do, but I will see.

BTW.. We have 7 so far so we are doing well.. Only 13 left and we have a buy!
Jay

[Greg M]

Nothing from Arri "comes" with a case

[Tim Lüdin]

Well here in Europe the stuff comes with cases.
But it's ok. It's gonna be a good deal any way.
Thanks.
Tim

[Petros Nousias]

A case is always optional with arri, meaning it is there if you want it but you have to pay for it, it is considered an extra accessory.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I just got the ARRI MB-20II and Follow Focus 4 unit in. The idea here is to be able to answer any questions you may all have by looking at the unit hands on.. If you need photos, or even some video of the unit, I'd be happy to help. I am not going to go into an in-depth review just yet, I will say... WOW.

First the mattebox:

This thing is both amazing, and friggin big. I know some of you were wondering about getting something larger. My advice to you is do not go any bigger unless you know EXACTLY why you are doing so. This mattebox will handle 95% of the lenses you will use, and if you go for a larger one, then weight and size considerations may limit you on some shots.

The engineering is amazing. There is an incredible amount of detail to this item. You can tell every single piece of it is thought out carefully. I'll have some photos later, but I can see why it costs what it does. My Croziel looks so simple all of the sudden.

The follow focus:

This thing is a tank. All metal, and made to be beaten upon with no loss of perfection.

What strikes me is that I understand that these items are not made to look good today.. They are made to still be working 10 years from now. I think that's the main thing. They will last, and last and last.

I'm glad we started this group buy. Suddenly the money does not seem so bad knowing I will most likely never need to buy these things again.

Jay

BTW: Before we get started on the "debate" I am NOT saying any other company's work is inferior.. I am simply commenting on the quality of these items. To each his own, but we are, after all, in the "ARRI group buy" thread.. So this makes sense

[Kinosaur]

Reading through your last post, I'm getting the impression that you've gone through this whole process without having seen and used the equipment in question until now. Is this really true? this isn't intended as critisism in any way, I'm just surprised at you putting in all that effort to get a discount on something you were not familiar with. In this case, of course, you cant go wrong, they're both great bits of kit.

[david farland]

That's the power of the internet......sweet hey!

To date it hasn't been Jay's job to have ever seen the parts.

It's his job to get the best price and terms on a part that has already been scrutinised and recommended on this forum, used as the benchmark for other's design, accepted by industry professionals on this forum and others as the brand of choice and quite frankly has got very little bad press expect for cost. I would expect given the amount of exposure and comment the Arri MB & FF products has got, the real thing to focus on is cost. Sure Jay going goo goo over the item in his hand will sway people but that ain't his day job and this scrutiny has been covered else where. And as a corollory you must be surprised that people would buy a MB or FF without being familiar with it also.

So Kinosaur when you say you were surprised that Kay may not be personally familiar with the kit, was that the kind of surprise you get when you order a new car and it comes with a naked girl in the back or was it more like the surprise when you saw the back doors didn't have handles.

Cheers,

[Adrian T.]

Jay,

Could you please put up a complete list of all items we'd get with this group purchase using the original Arri "K2.xxx" part numbers? This would help us a lot.

Thanks for your efforts! :usd:

[david farland]

Agreed, the list is a little confusing.

Dave,

lebowski, you're not allowed to use that icon after obin used it to comment on Kelly....!

[Jay A. Kelley]

I'll get those part numbers of along with photos pretty quick...

David.. You kill me. :bleh:

Jay

[Adrian T.]

lebowski, you're not allowed to use that icon after obin used it to comment on Kelly....!

:bleh: :biggrin:

[david farland]

Jay,
What is included in the MB-20II Two Tray (3436.59) item?

I'm expecting it to be:

K2.47738 - MB-20 System II Basic module with sunshade
K2.65025 - Console for Lightweight Support
K2.65026 - MB-20 Two-Stage Filter Assembly
K2.65032 - MB-20 Swingaway Module
K2.65028 - MB-20 Back 138mm Bellows Adapter

Is this correct?

Dave,

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay,
What is included in the MB-20II Two Tray (3436.59) item?

I'm expecting it to be:

K2.47738 - MB-20 System II Basic module with sunshade
K2.65025 - Console for Lightweight Support
K2.65026 - MB-20 Two-Stage Filter Assembly
K2.65032 - MB-20 Swingaway Module
K2.65028 - MB-20 Back 138mm Bellows Adapter

Is this correct?

Dave,

It does not include the bellows Adaptor. Everything else is spot on.
Jay

[Ivan G]

Jay, will this deal happen before or after the Holidays?

[Jay A. Kelley]

Abu,

I will need confirmation of the 20 matteboxes by end of Nov (Less than 10 so far).. All orders must be placed to the selected vendor (Which I expect to have next week) by Nov 10th. So everyone will have their stuff by year's end

Believe ARRI or not, after it's over it's over.

Jay

[Adrian T.]

All orders must be placed to the selected vendor (Which I expect to have next week) by Nov 10th.

You mean Dec 10th, right? :bleh:

[Ivan G]

I'm sure he meant December 10th. Right jay...? Anyways, hope to get your detail review and some photo's up soon. :biggrin:

[Jay A. Kelley]

Ummmmm Yeah...

:)

Oops..

[david farland]

Jay,

What parts are included in the FF4 deal?

Dave,

[Jay A. Kelley]

The 15mm adaptor, or the 19mm adaptor.. They run about $600.00 each.

That makes the discount of the follow focus about 20% or better.. That major!

Fair warning though.. If the Mattebox deal falls through, the follow focus goes with it.

Jay

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Fair warning though.. If the Mattebox deal falls through, the follow focus goes with it.

Crap.

Jay, if it really starts looking like the deal may fall apart, would it be possible for ARRI to consider a delay in offering the deal? I guess what I'm thinking is that a lot of potential customers probably won't be ready for such a purchase until their camera is closer to shipping. We saw it with Steve Tammi's O'Connor group buy and I've seen some of the same comments here -- even made them myself... "my camera won't ship for a few months, do we have to buy now?" or similar. Perhaps this is what ARRI wants though... They don't want to sell too many at the discount price, or any... Just thought I would throw that out there, even though it probably won't happen.

[david farland]

Good suggestion Jeff.

Jay,

So for $3400 we get the items I've circled below (with pretty picture) and need to buy any other accessories, correct?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/48_1195970825.jpg


Cheers,
Dave

[Mark Pedersen]

It does not include the bellows Adaptor. Everything else is spot on.
Jay

Jay,

Are you sure about the Belows Adaptor? That is listed as part of the Arri MB20-II SET - part number K0.60030.0 in the Arri Configuration Overview, which includes everything listed plus the 138mm belows adapter. I would expect Arri to package those items as the "basic" mattebox. You need the belows adapter to attach any 138mm R2 series ring. Please see my other posting...

Thanks!

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay,

Are you sure about the Belows Adaptor? That is listed as part of the Arri MB20-II SET - part number K0.60030.0 in the Arri Configuration Overview, which includes everything listed plus the 138mm belows adapter. I would expect Arri to package those items as the "basic" mattebox. You need the belows adapter to attach any 138mm R2 series ring. Please see my other posting...

Thanks!

I will certainly check!

Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

Crap.

Jay, if it really starts looking like the deal may fall apart, would it be possible for ARRI to consider a delay in offering the deal? I guess what I'm thinking is that a lot of potential customers probably won't be ready for such a purchase until their camera is closer to shipping. We saw it with Steve Tammi's O'Connor group buy and I've seen some of the same comments here -- even made them myself... "my camera won't ship for a few months, do we have to buy now?" or similar. Perhaps this is what ARRI wants though... They don't want to sell too many at the discount price, or any... Just thought I would throw that out there, even though it probably won't happen.

Jeff I don't think there will be any way to win here. Either the deal will come to early for some, or too late for others. I don't think there is a solution to this problem. One thing is for sure.. We need a vendor.. I will get one locked down A.S.A.P.


Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

Good suggestion Jeff.

Jay,

So for $3400 we get the items I've circled below (with pretty picture) and need to buy any other accessories, correct?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/48_1195970825.jpg


Cheers,
Dave

Ummm.. No David, I said the 15mm or 19mm adaptor.. You circled a couple other items as well.. And I am told the follow focus is NOT $3,400.00.. It's a bit less
Jay

[Anders Holck]

So Jay can you just recoup: what's the price for both the FF-4 and the MB20II?

[Adrian T.]

And please give us the complete list of items included in the deal (all "K2.xxx" part numbers). Thanks.

[Kinosaur]

That's the power of the internet......sweet hey!

To date it hasn't been Jay's job to have ever seen the parts.

It's his job to get the best price and terms on a part that has already been scrutinised and recommended on this forum, used as the benchmark for other's design, accepted by industry professionals on this forum and others as the brand of choice and quite frankly has got very little bad press expect for cost. I would expect given the amount of exposure and comment the Arri MB & FF products has got, the real thing to focus on is cost. Sure Jay going goo goo over the item in his hand will sway people but that ain't his day job and this scrutiny has been covered else where. And as a corollory you must be surprised that people would buy a MB or FF without being familiar with it also.

So Kinosaur when you say you were surprised that Kay may not be personally familiar with the kit, was that the kind of surprise you get when you order a new car and it comes with a naked girl in the back or was it more like the surprise when you saw the back doors didn't have handles.

Cheers,

Am I surprised that people would buy a matte box or FF without being familiar with it? I don't actually believe anyone would do that! unless they were very confident of the company's returns policy. As to the car analogy, maybe it was the kind of surprise you get when the car seems to be bigger than I thought...but perhaps a bit better built. Why do you ask ?
In all seriousness, the advice and information that can be got from this forum could be very useful but IMHO only a fool would act on any of it without doing a bit of their own research, particularly if a lot of money is involved.

[david farland]

Jay,

Are you sure about the Belows Adaptor? That is listed as part of the Arri MB20-II SET - part number K0.60030.0 in the Arri Configuration Overview, which includes everything listed plus the 138mm belows adapter. I would expect Arri to package those items as the "basic" mattebox. You need the belows adapter to attach any 138mm R2 series ring. Please see my other posting...

Thanks!

Unless you're going to use the clamp-on adapter (K2.65030) you'll need the Back 138mm bellows adapter (K2.65028) for ANY R2, R3, R4, R5 filter or reductions rings. This is all rings except the Clamp-On Adapter rings.

So yes, the Bellows adapter it is a mandatory requirement that will need to be purchased one way or another. I'm sure Jay's on it.

Dave,

[Jay A. Kelley]

Guys here's what needs to happen..

I need to get out of some of this.. I do not mean I won't handle/lead/ support this group buy.. But we need someone in here who can answer these questions correctly. I am going to see to this FIRST THING MONDAY! I promise.. Then part numbers, prices, etc etc will be there for you from someone who can really answer them.

I will get on this A.S.A.P. so you can get some answers

Jay