Red Ray integrating Light Peak?

[Peter Mosiman]

So I have been on a Light Peak fact finding mission recently and it seems that this is the tech to invest in especially for something like Red Ray.

I was just curious if RED was planning on integrating Light Peak in its first release of the product or if it was going to wait until v2?

If you guys end up waiting, what would be the main purpose of doing so when LP can deliver so much to the table?

Cheers!

[Stuart English]

Q: As RED RAY data rate is about 15 Mbps what would Light Peak offer that even USB-2 doesn't already provide?

[Peter Mosiman]

That is a good question. I'd venture to say that the ability to interconnect the REDRAY straight into a projector via a single cable?

[George Tsai]

now theres an interesting thought. would sure beat 4 cables for 4k projection. Though I doubt there's a protocol for that over lightpeak at the moment. would be awesome tho if maybe the redray had a module bay to leave possibilities open when a protocol is set?
for all we know Red already has left a possibility to upgrade redray sometime in the future:-P

[M Most]

now theres an interesting thought. would sure beat 4 cables for 4k projection.

It's 4 cables if you're using DVI. If you're feeding a 4K projector using SDI, it's 8 cables (quad dual link).

Both DVI and SDI are designed to carry video data. LightPeak is allegedly a general purpose data transport, but there is no protocol that I know of for video on it.

[George Tsai]

It's 4 cables if you're using DVI. If you're feeding a 4K projector using SDI, it's 8 cables (quad dual link).

Both DVI and SDI are designed to carry video data. LightPeak is allegedly a general purpose data transport, but there is no protocol that I know of for video on it.

hehe, makes it all that much more desirable to be able to use lightpeak:-)

i'm not sure but guessing that 4k projection is a total of what... 12 gbps? so may need to wait a bit till they scale up the datarate of lightpeak to only use single cable:-P

[Gunleik Groven]

That is a good question. I'd venture to say that the ability to interconnect the REDRAY straight into a projector via a single cable?

The best lightpeek suggestion yet!

[George Tsai]

Both DVI and SDI are designed to carry video data. LightPeak is allegedly a general purpose data transport, but there is no protocol that I know of for video on it.

looks like there is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kidmWiqKzqY

just matter of time for 4k if its not there already:-D

[M Most]

looks like there is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kidmWiqKzqY

just matter of time for 4k if its not there already:-D

Well, there you go. Learn something new every day.

[Peter Mosiman]

looks like there is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kidmWiqKzqY

just matter of time for 4k if its not there already:-D

Thats the same video that I watched that gave me the idea. Could be useful in simplifying the amount of things a theater chain/projectionist has to do to workflow wise.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

HDMI already supports 4K. It was added in version 1.4. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4)

The video linked above was a demo of over HDMI over Lightpeak.

So... Lightpeak already supports 4k

[Stuart English]

HDMI already supports 4K. It was added in version 1.4. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4)

The video linked above was a demo of over HDMI over Lightpeak.

So... Lightpeak already supports 4k

And so does a single HDMI 1.4 connector...but yes there is a cable length limitation Light Peak would not have.

[Peter Mosiman]

I have heard a lot of negative things about the HDMI as an interconnect cable, especially coming from the vDSLR rage. I've only experienced the loss of connectivity once or twice when say the camera has to get a new battery but the monitor doesn't so you shut down the camera and the HDMI doesn't carry the signal over until you also reboot the monitor.

LP is also a very thin cable (look at how small/maleable this 30m LP cable is in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfGevFIVKw4) ) and HDMI definitely does not have the small/flexibility that LP demonstrates in the video.

[Stuart English]

I not arguing the merits of HDMI 1.4 v's Light Peak, but have you had an issue with HDMI or DVI in the home ?

[Stacey Spears]

I not arguing the merits of HDMI 1.4 v's Light Peak, but have you had an issue with HDMI or DVI in the home ?

HDMI has been pretty painful. Many high end custom installers actually route analog video because they don't want phone calls in the middle of the night from angry celebrities. Starting in 2011 they will no longer be able to do this, at least for Blu-ray, thanks to the analog sunset, which prohibts anything > 480i over analog outputs.

The quality of EDIDs have been one of the real problems that has given HDMI a bad name. Some EDID issues include:

1. Displays have improper EDIDs. - Runco Plasmas used to have FF FF FF... as their EDID.
2. Displays report some odd resolution as their preferred resolution. e.g. 1920x1080 display reports 720p as its preferred resolution.
3. Some source devices crash when all EDID options are included in the sink device. e.g. There was once a $5000 DVD player that would power off when plugged into the Quantum Data 882 HDMI analyzer with the default EDID. If you uploaded a simple EDID then the player did not crash.
4. HDCP authentication.
5. Information not correctly passed from sink to source. e.g. Player -> Receiver -> Display. In this example display reports 2-channel audio. Reciever does not do the proper thing and passes the 2-channel info to the player, which in turn only sends 2-channel audio to the receiver.
6. HDMI switcher - You might send 10-bit 4:4:4 from a source that must pass through an HDMI switching device. e.g. reciever. The receiver may down sample to 8-bit, color convert, clip, who-knows-what, and then send off to the display. Owning an HDMI analyzer has really opened my eyes to some poorly engineered products.

None of these issues are specific to HDMI / DVI, but it is some of the problems consumers have run into with HDMI and naturally associate with HDMI.

HDMI plug fests are a hoot. Silicon Image should have done a better job.

[Peter Mosiman]

I not arguing the merits of HDMI 1.4 v's Light Peak, but have you had an issue with HDMI or DVI in the home ?

Besides the width/rigidity of the cables, not really. To be honest with you, I did not know that DVI was HD capable.

I figured that since RED wasn't releasing any news about REDRAY, that you guys were still toying around with I/O's and stuff, but I guess it makes sense to have standard outputs that are capable of plugging into tech a couple of years old, AND looking toward the future - ie. such as installing a LightPeak out now so that by the time those become the norm, people don't have to buy new REDRAYs to use on their new gear.

[Stuart English]

I/O is definitely one of those things that you need to keep an eye on, rather like lens mounts on a camera...

[Peter Mosiman]

I/O is definitely one of those things that you need to keep an eye on, rather like lens mounts on a camera...

I'll go ahead and assume that you guys already have plenty of eyes on this already =]. I can't wait to see my first true 4K projection.

[Deanan]

HDMI already supports 4K. It was added in version 1.4. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4)

The video linked above was a demo of over HDMI over Lightpeak.

So... Lightpeak already supports 4k

DVI also supports 4k over a single dual link at 24fps.

[Gunleik Groven]

HDMI has been the most scetchy "standard" I have ever used.

Seeems to mature lately, though...

[ericyoung]

One potential con with Lightpeak is also one of its pros. The demo videos I've seen allow single cable daisy chain for a two way communication between any and all connected devices - very cool.

But if you unplug any one of those devices, anything "downstream" is also cut off. Which means that in reality, we probably won't want to daisy chain too many dissimilar devices on a single chain. While computers may have two or more Lightpeak I/O ports, they surely must be thinking of Lightpeak hubs, to allow star topography hookups, unless a ring topography is possible too.

Just musing aloud...

[Tom Wardrop]

Just to clarify for those who are unaware, light-peak is protocol agnostic. Unlike USB for example which is both a physical and protocol standard, light-peak is only a physical standard. Any digital protocol can work over Lightpeak, which includes HDMI and DVI.

What Intel are trying to do, is create a single physical interconnect standard, which is something which makes a lot of sense. HDMI, DVI, USB, PS2, Firewire, DisplayPort, SATA, etc, are all simply protocols, but each has their own propriety physical transport layer. It's a waste. Why keep re-inventing the physical layer when really all you want to do is invent a protocol? Of course, lightpeak only allows this because it uses optical fibre rather than copper. It would make little sense to use a chunky copper cable like that used by HDMI, for your mouse and keyboard. With fibre however, the amount of data the physical fibre can carry is virtually infinite as it depends completely on the technology at either end of the cable.

[jake blackstone]

It would make little sense to use a chunky copper cable like that used by HDMI, for your mouse and keyboard.

That is until someone steps on it...

[Elmer Tenkink]

I used to be a projectornist (now internet marketing & research), I am not totaly up to date. But I personal found dvi pretty solid. My experience is that change goes slowly in the movie theater industry. As that it takes time to have ROI on 10 200 000 dollar projectors. Light-peak or thunderbolt they call it now requiers a direct intergration in the graphiccard. So it depence alot on barco (they license there projector graphic boards to alot projector brands).
I geuss if red reprecent the redray at cinama expo and would be around the 10 000 price tag. You'll see the redray pretty fast in the local movie theater.