Red One Rainy Night

[I Bloom]

This Sunday we wrapped our first dramatic production with a Red One. A dramatic short shot over the course of two nights. It was a wonderful experience and we really put ourselves and our red through the paces, our first night we shot 6 to 6 in pouring rain and it truly felt to me like a trial by fire.

Here are some frame grabs mostly ungraded jpg:
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Vladimir Eugene flew out from L.A. to do a week of testing and shooting with us on his new Red #87. This guy is awesome and I can't thank him enough for rolling with the punches with us and coming out victorious in the end. We were aided by Steve Gal of Du-All camera http://www.duallcamera.com (s816mm35mm on RedUser) who provided a great set of Zeiss Superspeed MK3s and other support including moral. Steve has two Red's on order and a new set of S4s. He machines his own parts and has a huge collection of film accessories so he going to be providing two custom-pimped Red packages in NYC very soon. I also want to thank my AC and glidecam operator, Daniel Sariano who has worked on the camera teams of our esteemed Mr. Mullen and my other idol Chris Doyle (would you like to hear some stories!!). We couldn't have done this without Danny coming out and I can't thank him enough. Daniel's going to be flying Red #1200-something around New York on his V25 in the near future.

I have to say I am in love with this camera and it is with confidence that I am pushing to shoot with it on another larger dramatic show later in November. But I have to say this thing is a beast, it's not for the faint of heart and it is by no means a plug and play point and shoot operation. This camera takes a lot of support and some occasional problem solving. But like I said I'm totally into it and I've made the decision to gear my entire career around this new format.

My feelings about the camera are overwhelmingly positive, though I feel that in its current state the team is still definitely working out some of the bugs. I was really happy to work with the system in this state as I felt like the entire camera team was excited to rise to the challenge. But there were some hiccups for us and there were more than a few production delays because of us. I'm going to post some details here for the benefit of others who are shooting dramatic work on red soon and to pass my feedback to the red team.

The main problems we experienced during our two day shoot started with a strange "CODEC_FAULT" bug in build 8 that prevented the camera from rolling. Red support had us switch to build 6 and we had no problems. Luckily we found this problem during camera checkout so we had access to the internet to get a different build. If you are shooting build 8 soon I would suggest you load a CF card with 6 just in case.

Another problem we had on our rainy night, was an unresponsive joystick on the back of our camera, it prevented us at some times, from moving the selection in the left direction, which was what we need to do to format a CF card. On the next night (dry) the problem didn't occur. I personally don't have much love for the joystick and would prefer a set of buttons with shapes that you can feel with your fingers. We were shooting inside a car, and I found that in awkward positions the joystick is difficult to control. If you are in a similar situation of course you can erase the CF cad manually and RED will prompt you to format on insertion.

Beyond that, we found our LCD was very finicky on boot-up. Sometimes it would not come up. If you run into this problem you need to hit the power toggle on the LCD just once and then reboot. We also discovered on our particular unit that the button labeled with the power symbol was not in fact the power button. We spent a lot of time toggling the LCD and then rebooting the system, which takes about a minute and a half (maybe there is a faster way, I thought later we might try switching the system to EVF and then switching back to LCD, but never tried it.) Danny made the suggestion that the LCD may need an LED that indicates that the unit is receiving power, enabled and turned on. On another note, I like the look of the LCD but I just found that you need to be looking at it straight on to see the image clearly more-so than on other LCD's I've used. Granted, I was operating in some awkward positions, with gear shifters poking into my spleen and stuff, so obviously my annoyance level was high. I think for the price they are selling it it's great, but because it's the only LCD that works with the proprietary port, I hope RED will offer a more expensive version in the future.

Most of the time we were pulling focus with a Bartech remote focus device. We mounted the receiver on a set of carbon fiber rods on the top rear of the camera, and then ran power directly from the battery mount and not through the camera. We found that IN THIS CONFIGURATION that sometimes our bartech would trip off the camera during calibration. As you may know bartech uses resistance on the motor to determine the stop point of the focus ring, and it was at this moment of resistance that we would trip some kind of breaker and switch everything off. I don't know exactly the reason for this problem or if it would happen were power routed through camera but the solution is to boot up the camera and turn on the bartech then power down the camera and calibrate the focus ring then boot the camera back up.

We found no other show stoppers, though build 6 had some other weirdness that you could overcome say by hitting the image zoom button and coming back out. I would also like to suggest to the Red developers that you change the "Out of Space ERROR!" message with the big red X when you fill a CF card to something green and friendly like "Roll out, please add more footage." The reason is because rollouts are going occur sometimes and my already-nervous-about-Red-director freaked when he saw this "error" message.

Continued in next post...

[I Bloom]

The physical aspects of the camera are mostly really good. I like the top and bottom rods and the top handle. I'd suggest carbon fiber on top and steel on the bottom, that worked well for us. We only had an LCD, no EVF, and found that the Red israeli arm was a little short, and didn't allow us to put the LCD fully on the side and perpendicular to the camera. I wished for a longer arm and/or some more mount points on the side of the camera in the basic production pack. I also found that the red handles would slip sometimes around the red handle mount point. I sometimes operate handheld with the camera body slung underneath my arm, Terminator 2 style. I found that when the handle was parallel to the rods, that it wouldn't support the weight and I was grabbing instead for the rod. I wish for a handle that is harder to adjust but totally stiff.

For DIT work Vladimir purchased a Lexar firewire 800 CF reader at B&H. We compared it to an off the shelf USB2.0 reader I had previously bought. There was a definite speed increase, by a factor of two or three. We ran footage through my Macbook Pro to a USB 2.0 drive. I'd like to suggest this configuration because on the Macbook I know that Firewire 800 and 400 are on the same bus, and I've found you will experience a minor speed increase by using USB 2.0 for your drive and not sharing data across the same bus. In the future I'm looking into a RAID enclosure attached through the expresscard slot we just didn't get to that yet. I'm also going to look now into one of those CF card transfer drives, because in this situation we were dependent on power from a generator to do our DIT workflow, and this is not a good place to be.

My experience with P2 taught me that you can't take enough steps to help your brain keep track of the transfer situation so we labeled our four CF cards with some stickers I found in a hurry at a stationary store before the shoot. These worked great because they give each card a name: among our cards was The Birdie, the Flower, the Joint and SuperK (I stuck this sticker on before I realized it was an abstract representation of a hand making the "a-ok" gesture.) This was really effective because it allowed us to communicate about which cards were hot as we passed them off to the DIT. "Hot birdie" "This birdies ready to die." "Hot joint". You get the idea. I found this extremely effective for the purpose of memory, in addition to numbering the cards you can construct a sentence that will keep an order to the cards, "The birdie picked up a joint by the flower and it was SuperK." You get the idea....Stay in school kids.

In terms of workflow I found that when a RED formatted CF Card mounts, it always comes up as "RED ONE". I'd like to suggest that the camera should instead format it so that the card has a unique volume name, perhaps including the date and time that formatting occured, and yes maybe a random "memory noun". This will be an effective way to distinguish cards and prevent the dreaded copy one card twice, format two cards, scenario that can rear it's ugly head if you aren't careful.

From a shooting standpoint I think this thing is a dream. I was trying to shoot mostly wide open because I wanted catch all of the existing light at our location, a parking lot on the water in Red Hook Brooklyn (of course;). Now looking back at my footage, think I need to leave the HD paradigm behind with Red. On HD my philosophy has always been to protect highlights at all costs. On Red it's the same but I think it's really important to have a nice selection of blacks at the left side of your histogram, This was a night shoot, it needed to look dark, I had the full range of tones, but I wish I had been exposing further to the right so that some tones were a little higher above the noise floor. Some of the darkness could have been better done in post. I didn't have to do this but the point is that "I could have done it" with all of that extra range.

I'm someone who has shot my fair share of film, but makes his living shooting HD and own myself an HVX200. If you think Red is anything like, or will replace your HVX200, think again. It looks similar in size in that one picture we've all seen but it's a whole different world in comparison. I've come to an understanding that becoming a Red owner operator means stepping up my game on a lot of levels, not to mention HITTING THE GYM.

There were a few times when I was a little overwhelmed by the rig. I'd have it on my shoulder and looking at the images we were getting on the LCD and thinking like hooooly shit. I've said this in about Marks film-out screening. But it's just clear now, this is the first digital medium I've used that has an emotional quality. On Red you have a clear relationship to the glass you mount. Only two camera parameters actually effect your image (frame rate and shutter), nothing else really matters, so in terms of shooting the focus becomes lighting, composition and GLASS.

If you are a reservation holder like me waiting in line, I'd suggest you rent one of these things as soon as possible. Your going to learn a tremendous amount, and get some reality about Red that I think is indispensable.

I'm setting up post and finishing this one, so I'll let you know how that goes.

IBloom

[Álex Montoya]

Nice pics.

Any chance to get moving footage?

[Tim Lüdin]

Hi Ibloom
Very, very great post. That's the kinda stuff I like to talk about. The positiv and negativ aspects of a shooting with the RED. Great ideas about the labeling of the CF cards. That's the small stuff, that will have a big impact on set. I think the RED team will look in to this. Man this forum is getting started now.

The RED team will get more great ideas than they wish. Welcome to the internet age.

Thanks Ibloom
Looking froward to your next episode.
Cheers

Tim

[Häakon]

Hi Ian,

Just out of curiosity, how were you powering the BFD receiver (ie, through the camera's 12V connector or an external power source)? I'm getting one for my rig as well (the lead time on new units is about 4 weeks right now), but in talking to him about power options it was clear that you have to use the output on the side of the battery plate and NOT the 12V connector on the camera itself as it doesn't draw enough amps for the Bartech and/or your motor to work properly.

[Sanjin Jukic]

On Red you have a clear relationship to the glass you mount. Only two camera parameters actually effect your image (frame rate and shutter), nothing else really matters, so in terms of shooting the focus becomes lighting, composition and GLASS.

IBloom

I like this quote very much.

[I Bloom]

Hi Ian,

Just out of curiosity, how were you powering the BFD receiver (ie, through the camera's 12V connector or an external power source)? I'm getting one for my rig as well (the lead time on new units is about 4 weeks right now), but in talking to him about power options it was clear that you have to use the output on the side of the battery plate and NOT the 12V connector on the camera itself as it doesn't draw enough amps for the Bartech and/or your motor to work properly.

Well, that's good information. We definitely went straight off the battery plate and never tried through the camera for want of the right cable. Once you tripped the battery plate you would need to boot the camera in order to get the plate to feed power to the BFD again. I'm sure a seperate source would solve the problem, but that equals more weight.

IBloom

[Jason Francois]

Thanks Ian. Nice and thorough. I'm sure RED is listening.

[Fix]

That was a great post! Alot of insight. I understand there is alot of smal bugs here and there and support is needed. So how did the support work? Did you feel a bit lost in space or a warm hand on your shoulder? if you get my meaning?

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

Brilliant post! thanks :weight_lift:

The builds will only get more stable but the weight is more of an issue huh.. I think the trick may take as much stuff off the camera as possible. It's like when you go trecking in the mountains: you pack your bag then take everything out again and throw half of it away :usd:

Or you hire Gibby to film it; he reckons 18 pounds is lightweight (RESPECT..)

[I Bloom]

That was a great post! Alot of insight. I understand there is alot of smal bugs here and there and support is needed. So how did the support work? Did you feel a bit lost in space or a warm hand on your shoulder? if you get my meaning?

Vlad talked to Red directly on this shoot, but my second hand experience was very positive. I have spoken with Brian from red in the past and my read is that they already know about most problems before the joe public can discover them, but its just a matter of the realities of manufacturing and software developement to stay ahead of us. I think Red is helpful but you need to use your best software and electrical reasoning skills to try and diagnose and resolve most problems yourself if you need to solve them RIGHT NOW. And remmember that many of the problems we had on our shoot are similar to problems I've had with film cameras and other digital cameras, and now that I've discovered them, I won't run into them again (and neither will you kind reader). All in all I think Red is really far along.

My buddy Jae Song was telling me he just got off a Arri D20 shoot and thought it was really buggy. Red at least is going to have tons of us out in the field working it out.


Brilliant post! thanks :weight_lift:

The builds will only get more stable but the weight is more of an issue huh.. I think the trick may take as much stuff off the camera as possible. It's like when you go trecking in the mountains: you pack your bag then take everything out again and throw half of it away :usd:

Or you hire Gibby to film it; he reckons 18 pounds is lightweight (RESPECT..)

Red is much lighter than most film cameras. Lighter than an SR3 and lighter than an XTRprod. Something similar to most over the shoulder ENG cameras, depending on how much gear you mount on it. It might even weigh less than a hand held rig for the P+S HVX200 combo (i think it does, I don't have a scale just my back). But here is the thing THE WEIGHT IS GOOD.... want to shoot a movie that looks like Children of Men. Don't expect to do it with a camera you can twitch with your wrist.

IBloom

[Keith Alan Morris]

beautiful, beautiful stills, ibloom. top notch.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

The main problems we experienced during our two day shoot started with a strange "CODEC_FAULT" bug in build 8 that prevented the camera from rolling. Red support had us switch to build 6 and we had no problems. Luckily we found this problem during camera checkout so we had access to the internet to get a different build. If you are shooting build 8 soon I would suggest you load a CF card with 6 just in case.


sorry, but i dont understand this build-thing....
what do you mean with build 8..6...load a cf card with 6....what is a build, where is it...for what is it useful?

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Firmware update I guess

[Sean R.]

build=firmware version

[Cüneyt Kaya]

thanks...
so best is to keep the different updates...on a laptop on location

[I Bloom]

thanks...
so best is to keep the different updates...on a laptop on location

When a programmer takes a human readable program and transforms it into machine readable program, the process is called compiling. Compiled programs are linked together into a complete application and this process is called building a project. A specific "build" is a snapshot of a large program in developement. In this case Build 8 has more features. Build 6 is more stable. This is normal for software developement.

You might consider having an older build around, yes it could be useful. It sounds like 8 is working well for most people.

[blacksunday666]

Love the stills ibloom.

[jaadgy akanni]

So glad to learn you guys were able to accomplish so much with the camera. I would've loved to be there and watch you guys work but I was at my mom's shop installing tiles instead-oh well. But thanks for inviting me Vlad. I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys shot. These grabs look really good. It was a real pleasure meeting Vlad and talking to Ian on the phone, and thanks Vlad for letting me hold the camera in my hands-it was a real treat.

[Paul Hazlett]

thanks bloom very informative reading.

[I Bloom]

beautiful, beautiful stills, ibloom. top notch.

Thanks... a couple more:
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Can't post a shot until I go over them with the director.

Cheers,
IBloom

[Rick Darge]

There are a lot of Red stills with couples blindfolding eachother..

[Joel Kaye]

There are a lot of Red stills with couples blindfolding eachother..

Yeah - that makes sense when you think about it. Great thread.

[Jason Francois]

Ian-Thanks for sharing.

If you get time and would like talk a bit about the lighting setups or at least the kind of lights that were used, I for one, would really appreciate it.

Please, keep the stills coming. I'm greedy and I can't help it.

Jason

[Steve Gal]

Congrads Ian,
Glad to see that the shoot went well for the most part. Would love to see what you do with all the footage you shot. I'm sure it will look amazing. By the way, you guys didn't return one of my marking strips for the BFD. No prob if you can't find. There are still 9 more. I got some ideas for rigging this camera which I think will be comfortable. I just need some time with it and I'm sure I can come up with something cool.

Steve

[I Bloom]

Ian-Thanks for sharing.

If you get time and would like talk a bit about the lighting setups or at least the kind of lights that were used, I for one, would really appreciate it.

Please, keep the stills coming. I'm greedy and I can't help it.

Jason

I only had four lights, 2 300 Arri heads, 1K Mole Fresnel and a 2K Mole Open Faced. In retrospect a 4K would have been nice but I made the decision early to shoot wide open and not light the backgrounds, and I couldn't afford more than 6000 watts at the location.

The softness in the car was achieved by bouncing off of foamcore and beadboard. In the case of the shot of the guy in the blue shirt, I laid the foamcore on the hood and bounced light down into it and the glovebox (his character's not a good guy). Also the wet windows work wonders for light texture.

The overhead lights at the lot were actually blue in comparison to the tungsten, which was lucky for me because I had no control over them. If someone can tell me what kind of lights they are I'd appreciate it. In a mercury vapor situation, I would have had to add CTO to my lights to get the same look.

In the shot where the girl is in pain in the parking lot (the character drank lithium) I just hit her directly with the 2K from like 50 feet, I needed to do this because it was a handheld walking shot across a wide area. It works though a little bit because of the deer in the headlights effect.

In retrospect, I should have used a little more light. I'm wavering, I actually like a little noise. I like that Miami Vice night exterior look. But if you want zero noise in a night shot on Red, you need to expose for like 200 ASA not 320 as I was.

1623


Ian

[I Bloom]

And some production stills, from left thats me, Vlad, and Daniel.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/582_1193705799.jpg

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/582_1193705836.jpg

[Kevin Lang]

Great Story!

[Michael Schrengohst]

There are a lot of Red stills with couples blindfolding eachother..

Or this

[CraigYoung]

I am the guy who wrote the script. So , I can honestly say the whole blindfold thing was thought up way before I knew about Red.

[Jason Francois]

Thanks Ian, for taking the time to respond. That's an inspirational look for not too big of a lighting package.

I too, like a little noise and enjoyed the still quite a bit.


And just think you're just getting started with this camera.

J.



I only had four lights, 2 300 Arri heads, 1K Mole Fresnel and a 2K Mole Open Faced. In retrospect a 4K would have been nice but I made the decision early to shoot wide open and not light the backgrounds, and I couldn't afford more than 6000 watts at the location.

The softness in the car was achieved by bouncing off of foamcore and beadboard. In the case of the shot of the guy in the blue shirt, I laid the foamcore on the hood and bounced light down into it and the glovebox (his character's not a good guy). Also the wet windows work wonders for light texture.

The overhead lights at the lot were actually blue in comparison to the tungsten, which was lucky for me because I had no control over them. If someone can tell me what kind of lights they are I'd appreciate it. In a mercury vapor situation, I would have had to add CTO to my lights to get the same look.

In the shot where the girl is in pain in the parking lot (the character drank lithium) I just hit her directly with the 2K from like 50 feet, I needed to do this because it was a handheld walking shot across a wide area. It works though a little bit because of the deer in the headlights effect.

In retrospect, I should have used a little more light. I'm wavering, I actually like a little noise. I like that Miami Vice night exterior look. But if you want zero noise in a night shot on Red, you need to expose for like 200 ASA not 320 as I was.

1623


Ian

[I Bloom]

I am the guy who wrote the script. So , I can honestly say the whole blindfold thing was thought up way before I knew about Red.

That's not true. You knew about Red in your heart and in your dreams. Anyways, thanks Craig, wait until you see the downconverted footage ;)


Thanks Ian, for taking the time to respond. That's an inspirational look for not too big of a lighting package.

I too, like a little noise and enjoyed the still quite a bit.


And just think you're just getting started with this camera.

J.

Yeah HMI's and kino flos are overrated and overpriced.

IBloom

[C.H.Haskell]

iBloom! Thanks for sharing man, honest and real world as it gets...keep it coming.

Sending you a PM now, good luck with post.

[Frank Mirbach]

Very helpful and interesting ! Looking forward to seeing some footage here, soon.

[Fix]

Thanks for the respond Ian.

I can tell you have experience in your work and know your stuff dealing with film cameras. It’s quite interesting that you can use solutions from film camera experience when dealing with RED. I’m thinking technical perspective.

Support from RED is in a totally different league right now as only around 100cams is in the game IMO. I can imagine the support will take a different beat when 5000+ is up. Still, as you are saying they should be rid of most “child disease “ by that time.

What concerns me though is how to deal with the camera from the capture point of view. Its not video nor HD or some other pro shoulder cam, so all those ENG/EFP guys out there may feel some pain struggle with it. No auto from this baby.

How do you think the casual video guy will adapt to RED that have non film experience what so ever? Pain or pleasure?

[David Mullen ASC]

No auto from this baby.

How do you think the casual video guy will adapt to RED that have non film experience what so ever? Pain or pleasure?

It might depend on whether their video experience has been with pro equipment or prosumer equipment -- if you're used to using a pro ENG/EFP video camera, auto exposure is the most likely auto feature you'll use, and some use that rarely . When I switch between film cameras and pro ENG/EFP cameras, I don't find it too different -- it's the prosumer cameras that get confusing!

[Andrew Benz]

Ian, great posts, great pictures and a great thread. Thank you so much for taking the time to lay all this out for all of us to learn and gain some insight.

Cheers -- Andrew


Please excuse my tangent...



...so all those ENG/EFP guys out there may feel some pain struggle with it. No auto from this baby.

How do you think the casual video guy will adapt to RED that have non film experience what so ever? Pain or pleasure?

What!? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Years in the field? :pinch:

Not trying to start a fight but you are way off base when it comes to professional cameramen. Please read some of Steve Gibby's posts on EFP here is a link to his ENG/EFP definitions... http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1105

EFP guys are not by definition "the casual vido guy"... we are multi genre, mutli format shooters, who shoot anything ON anything depending on the requirements of the production.

***David beat me to it***

[Fix]

I'm sorry Andrew, and others. Didn't want to step on anyones toes here! I'm not trying to disrespect anyone with my comment. I'w been shooting professional for some years my self. In fact I don't use any auto settings.. Including exposure, David. But I know some people do. And lets face it.. its not a traditional shoulder cam.

I'm only asking Ian ,who tried the camera in the field, how it “reacts” compare to a EFP/ENG style camera setup. Regardless what Steve Gibby's have to say about it. No offence to him. I respect hes judgment and experience with the camera. So don't get confused.

I wrote that reply fairly fast at work... And I guess you right, some may find it offensive, if they dont know me in person. So please excuse me.

[Andrew Benz]

Fix, it is all good, I am sorry for being brisk in my statement. It is just that alot of us get painted with the same brush and the difference in skillsets is huge.

I know ENG guys too that throw a camera on their shoulder and "spray a scene"... and ten years later they are still working at the same station. I could go on for a few paragraphs but won't about this and the RED as an acqusition tool for multiple EFP genres... I will wait for LART and my camera.

I get where you are coming from though... Good luck with everything Fix and I wish you the very best in beautiful Norway.

Cheers,

Andrew Benz

[red1225]

Hey Ian,

The photos of the shoot look great. Glad to see the post on all the pros and cons we had with the camera.

Look forward to working with you again.

Peace,
Danny

[I Bloom]

How do you think the casual video guy will adapt to RED that have non film experience what so ever? Pain or pleasure?

Well, that depends on your definition of casual video guy. If you mean someone that only works with prosumer stuff, then yes. It's alot heavier. It's not made of plastic.

For ENG guys used to 2/3 inch chips, I only see three things:

1. Shallower depth of field in 35mm field of view, but of course Graemes magic focus assist is on the way and 2K windowed is available.

2. Lack of internal ND filters. This can be solved with screw mount filters, but thats still some extra juggling.

3. Currently CF is unwieldy for one person, but better in 2K. And Red Drive is coming.

Otherwise it should be easier since the exposure tools on RED are better (false color is awesome) and the camera has more dynamic range, so it's more forgiving in uncontrolled light situations. I didn't use my light meter unless the camera was back at the truck and I was looking at lights.

I think I agree with Gibby, it can be as complicated or as simple as you want it to be. I'll have to see, maybe I spoke too soon when I said you need alot of support. Maybe I need to log more hours on the rig before I'm ready to make that judgement.

Guys who only do film also have an issue though, they need to figure out their DIT process and provide a workflow to their clients. If you aren't up on computers that might be tricky at first.

Ian

[I Bloom]

Hey Ian,

The photos of the shoot look great. Glad to see the post on all the pros and cons we had with the camera.

Look forward to working with you again.

Peace,
Danny

Thanks again man.

[Larry McKee]

ibloom, thanks for taking the time to post your experiences. It is stuff we all need to know, so your sharing is invaluable for the rest of us. The images you created look great. Can't wait see to see it all cut together.

I agree about some of the lights we use being overrated. There are times when you need a specific instrument to do a specific chore. But a lot of the time, you can use just about any light source to create the image you want if you just think about what you are doing. If we meet sometime I'll tell you the story about the 6v flashlight and the toilet seat cover. ;)

[David Cubbage]

Hi Ian, that was a great post and as well as being informative, a joy to read, warts and all. You guys are pioneers and blazing the trail for us later reservation holders.

I don't doubt that by the time I get delivery of my Red, most, if not all of the bugs will ironed out; thanks to guys like you in the field and the fantastic support the Red team give their customers. The only thing I regret is not getting onboard sooner, but then I didn't discover Red until NAB2007.

Thanks again for your very professional feedback.

David

[Fix]

Great comment Ian. Its good to here that you share Gibby’s thoughts around ENG style compare to RED. I was actually hoping for a comment like that.

Though, I have seen a lot of “soft” focus done with this cam. Guess we can blame that on lack of focus assist (at the time) and, well, “low res” EVF/LCD. Anyways, I love the grabs you have put up! Some how reminds me of Spielbergs (Munich)..

Andrew, I dident find any brisk comments from you man. I’ll take those as solid comments and you did make a point. So no hard feelings from this fellow!

[Jendra]

The overhead lights at the lot were actually blue in comparison to the tungsten, which was lucky for me because I had no control over them. If someone can tell me what kind of lights they are I'd appreciate it. In a mercury vapor situation, I would have had to add CTO to my lights to get the same look.

Hi Ian,
Nice meeting you the other night, I'm glad to hear the details of your shoot. I've been too busy/lazy to post about my most recent RED shoot, but Mike Curtis is doing a good job of it over on hdforindies.com.

To answer your question in terms of street lights, if the are blue they are mercury vapor, if they are orange they are high pressure sodium, and if they are a saturated yellow they are low pressure sodium. For those interested, none of these lights are all that filter-able, because they are discontinuous sources, meaning they don't have all the colors of the spectrum or are not "white" lights (color temp aside.) Mercury has the most complete spectrum, and low pressure sodium is pretty much monochromatic. I like Lee 101 to recreate that look if you want to try to match or emulate those yellow low pressure sodium street lights.

[I Bloom]

Hi Ian,
Nice meeting you the other night, I'm glad to hear the details of your shoot. I've been too busy/lazy to post about my most recent RED shoot, but Mike Curtis is doing a good job of it over on hdforindies.com.

To answer your question in terms of street lights, if the are blue they are mercury vapor, if they are orange they are high pressure sodium, and if they are a saturated yellow they are low pressure sodium. For those interested, none of these lights are all that filter-able, because they are discontinuous sources, meaning they don't have all the colors of the spectrum or are not "white" lights (color temp aside.) Mercury has the most complete spectrum, and low pressure sodium is pretty much monochromatic. I like Lee 101 to recreate that look if you want to try to match or emulate those yellow low pressure sodium street lights.

Nice... I had the two confused. My early attempts to filter streetlights also sent me back to the books wondering why it didn't work. Later I had some success by adding 1+1/2 CTO + 1/4 PLUS GREEN to my forground tungsten and then balancing the whole frame back to white with balance or in post, in order to cool down orange lights in the background. (Next time I'll try Lee 101) (I found this works particularly well with dark skin tones in your foreground.) Once it's read as RGB by the CCD's in the camera (or now Mysterium) the spectrum problems go away...you just need to make sure you keep detail in the highlights on your red channel. Luckily this location was blue so I just left my lights alone.

Glad to see you on here Jendra. How did you like the Superspeeds on your RED footage?

Ian

[Brice Ansel]

Thanks Ibloom, wish will have more and more reports like yours, 4 stars for your thread. Maximum respect
Brice

[Jim Bartell]

Most of the time we were pulling focus with a Bartech remote focus device. We mounted the receiver on a set of carbon fiber rods on the top rear of the camera, and then ran power directly from the battery mount and not through the camera. We found that IN THIS CONFIGURATION that sometimes our bartech would trip off the camera during calibration. As you may know bartech uses resistance on the motor to determine the stop point of the focus ring, and it was at this moment of resistance that we would trip some kind of breaker and switch everything off. I don't know exactly the reason for this problem or if it would happen were power routed through camera but the solution is to boot up the camera and turn on the bartech then power down the camera and calibrate the focus ring then boot the camera back up.


Just a quick note to correct a possible misconception.. The BFD doesn't "use resistance" to determine the stop point of the ring. The BFD doesn't determine the stop point at all. The operator does that when he is calibrating the unit via the knobs on the receiver. As you turn the knobs, the motor moves the lens correspondingly. Some operators find the end of lens travel by running the lens into it's end stops, but this isn't necessary. Once you reach the last footage mark, you are done. You don't need to hit the end of travel. It is the autocalibrating systems, like the Preston, that have to hit the end stop to calibrate. With a little practice, you can avoid this easily. Hitting the end stop does stall the motor and greatly increase the current draw, which undoubtedly caused the shut down you saw.

Having said that, I applaud the work-around you came up with. And your picture is up on my website (Daniel Sariano sent it to me).

Thanks for the plug!
Jim Bartell, BarTech Engineering

[tror53]

Ian,
Thanks for the great post, lots of good info.
Trevor

[zak forrest]

i assume all the errors etc that bloom mentioned in the first post of this thread will be taken care of for the next batch of cameras, right?