"It's not a motorcycle baby, It's a Chopper." [Archive]

Evin Grant

10-29-2007, 02:11 PM

Client: Big Bear Choppers
Title: "American Dream"
Prod. Co.: Crossover Film Co. INC.
Director: Mark Cross
Director of Photography: Evin Grant
Redninja DIT: Brook Willard
Red# 81 (Sam Druckerman's)

This was a long day but it was a blast. The narrative elements were filmed at Sand Canyon in the Budwiser shack (Rember those frog commercials) and then the production moved to downtown where we had a 12' Jimmy jib mounted on a Shotmaker. We used Cooke S4s for the narrative and an Angenioux 15-40 T2.6 Optimo for the rolling footage.

Here are two 1K h264 clips.
http://www.redninjas.net/chopperboy.mov
http://www.redninjas.net/tunnelsled.mov

And some BTS stills.

http://www.redninjas.net/shackme.jpg
Me operating with 1st AC Bobby Settemire

http://www.redninjas.net/brookjib.jpg
Brook on the Shotmaker helping the jib op. Shane Harness.

http://www.redninjas.net/redmaker.jpg
I love the mixed lighing.

Check out these awesome Choppers too...
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com

Brook Willard

10-29-2007, 02:16 PM

What a day... I'm still deliriously tired.

We had the jib down around 1-2" off the ground at times... and maybe 6" from the bike. We shot 29 rolls for about 170GB - 95% 4K with a little 2K 48fps in there.

Zakaree Sandberg

10-29-2007, 02:21 PM

hehe I can see you in the headlight:)

Brook Willard

10-29-2007, 02:23 PM

hehe I can see you in the headlight:)

You should see the 4K. You can identify people in the reflections.

Zakaree Sandberg

10-29-2007, 02:24 PM

haha i bet!
But honestly.. the tunnel scene kicks some serious ass.. the pavement looks ridiculous! (i use ridiculous in a good way)

Tim Lüdin

10-29-2007, 02:25 PM

Hi Evin

Nice shots. Tack sharp. Almost unreal sharp.
What mattebox did you use in the barn and what mattebox with the optimo?
Was that a arri MB-14?

What do you think about the optimo? Must be a crazy lens.

Looking forward to the whole clip.

Thanks
Tim

Evin Grant

10-29-2007, 02:27 PM

Not really much you can do when you're product is a shit load of mirrored chrome bolted to glossy painted sheetmetal.

Brook Willard

10-29-2007, 02:28 PM

The mattebox was a little Arri clip-on. We used the same MB for the whole day. I didn't bother to check the model number.

I don't know how Evin felt, but I personally wasn't blown away by the Optimo... if only for its slower speed and somewhat awkward design.

Daniel Reichenbach

10-29-2007, 02:28 PM

This picts are stunning, this clarity and beautifull light on the first and the mixed lights on the second clip. 29 rolls, hehehe, that sounds funny.

Evin Grant

10-29-2007, 02:29 PM

The mattebox was just a clip on 4x5.65 Arri, might have been the 14, I didn't look for a model number either. It was the same box on all lenses. The Optimo was sharp but I would have prefered the 15-40 T2 Cooke, the extra 2/3 stop would have been very useful.

jaadgy akanni

10-29-2007, 02:30 PM

The aesthetics of the RED footage continues to blow my mind. I mean, look how friggin' delicious that metal looks, and the sharpness. And Zakaree's right-the pavement looks ridiculous!!! Thanks Evin.

Tim Lüdin

10-29-2007, 02:34 PM

Hey Brook

Funny that you said rolls. The CF cards are our new rolls now.
That's realy true. Nice way to put it.

That metal looks realy good. What about color fringin at the metal edges. Did you see stuff like that?

Keep on posting. Cool stuff.

Cheers
Tim

Michael Schrengohst

10-29-2007, 02:38 PM

That is some excellent content.
Will you be able to post the finished spot?

Tim Lüdin

10-29-2007, 02:40 PM

Hey thank's guys for the quick reply.
Are these shots allready colorgraded, or just firstlight stuff?

Darwin

10-29-2007, 02:41 PM

Looked very nice, Was that first shot of the kid and the bike shot beside a lake? Looked like water reflections in the tin roof...cool stuff!

Sanjin Jukic

10-29-2007, 02:45 PM

Amazing guys!

A bit of fast CC examples below:

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/chopperboy_shake.jpg
Chopperboy (frame 407), CC in Shake.

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/tunnelsled_shake.jpg
Tunnelsled (frame 254), CC in Shake

chuck colburn

10-29-2007, 02:49 PM

Kinda silly looking aren't they?
Fun to look at or for going in a straight line, but God help you if you need to turn quickly.

Alexander Nikishin

10-29-2007, 02:51 PM

That's purrrty, I like it.

Daniel Reichenbach

10-29-2007, 02:51 PM

And in the back, an old K2?

Evin Grant

10-29-2007, 02:52 PM

That is some excellent content.
Will you be able to post the finished spot?

Yes, hopefuly in a week or so.

Hey thank's guys for the quick reply.
Are these shots allready colorgraded, or just firstlight stuff?

These were made from the reference QTs off the camera.

Looked very nice, Was that first shot of the kid and the bike shot beside a lake? Looked like water reflections in the tin roof...cool stuff!

Yes, there was a pond right outside the shack.

Claus Mueller

10-29-2007, 03:04 PM

download and flash h.264 on:

http://www.hd4.tv/red/mirror.html

Martin Drew

10-29-2007, 03:24 PM

Brook Willard

10-29-2007, 03:32 PM

What about color fringin at the metal edges. Did you see stuff like that?

Yep. I wasn't exactly blown away by the optical performance of the S4s. There were chromatic aberrations everywhere. Now we were in a fairly difficult environment with wide lenses... but still. Not great.

I Bloom

10-29-2007, 03:33 PM

Yep. I wasn't exactly blown away by the optical performance of the S4s. There were chromatic aberrations everywhere. Now we were in a fairly difficult environment with wide lenses... but still. Not great.

Beautiful stuff. Love the mixed light.

It seems like Ultraprimes are the way to go on Red. Am I thinking correctly?

IBloom

Justin O'Neill

10-29-2007, 03:36 PM

Beautiful Evin!

Love the behind the scene shots. Now that's some shooting!

Zach Gray

10-29-2007, 03:38 PM

Footage looks great!

Anybody else notice the crazy illusion at the start of tunnelsled.mov? For the first second, it looks as if you are traveling forward, then it tilts up to reveal you are going the opposite direction. Trippy.

Geoff Reisner

10-29-2007, 04:09 PM

Both shots look great and that's one hell of a beautiful bike from 'chopperboy'.

Brook Willard

10-29-2007, 04:31 PM

Beautiful stuff. Love the mixed light.

It seems like Ultraprimes are the way to go on Red. Am I thinking correctly?

IBloom

That's a personal decision - it depends on the character of the lenses and what you like. The S4s weren't much sharper than some Zeiss standards, but they both probably out-resolve the sensor. MPs and UPs are sharp as hell, but they react differently in different circumstances. Coatings are different, optical formulas are different, etc. Then you get into the physical characteristics and features of a lens... the list goes on.

If you're buying lenses, try them all and choose your favorite. There is no defined lens series that is the "way to go" with RED any more than there is one set of lenses that's the "way to go" with film.

Sanjin Jukic

10-29-2007, 05:13 PM

Both clips look amazing even blown up to 2.5K (2560x1280) like a full screen at 30" Apple Cinema Dispay.

To show customers in field, it's not 4K but 2.56K is good enough to impress everyone...

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/studio_oct_07_2.jpg

Kevin Lang

10-29-2007, 05:50 PM

Yep. I wasn't exactly blown away by the optical performance of the S4s. There were chromatic aberrations everywhere. Now we were in a fairly difficult environment with wide lenses... but still. Not great.

Wow! Really I am shocked to hear that S4's are what we try to use all the time and have had great success with them not having any aberrations we usually get them because they are flawless.

Kevin Lang

10-29-2007, 05:59 PM

Love the look! What did the client have to say?

Evin Grant

10-29-2007, 07:21 PM

Love the look! What did the client have to say?

They were very happy, to say the least.

Evin, when are you going to show us some RED via Nikon glass shots?

Can't wait to see those!

As soon as Red starts shipping the mount.

purefilm

10-29-2007, 08:18 PM

All I can say is awesome, That is the first time I got a emotional charge from a digital image. Thank you!

donatello b

10-29-2007, 08:20 PM

"I must have misunderstood a post I read about RED #88"

i believe RED 88 has not opened any of the boxes yet and assumed there was a nikon mount in the box because he paid for one ....

Evin Grant

10-29-2007, 09:18 PM

All I can say is awesome, That is the first time I got a emotional charge from a digital image. Thank you!

I'm flattered, thanks.:love:

Steve Sherrick

10-29-2007, 10:06 PM

Steve Sherrick

10-29-2007, 10:08 PM

Man, that stuff looks really great. The stuff is jumping off the screen.

Steve

Casey Green

10-29-2007, 10:31 PM

Nice work, guys! Footage looks great!

hehe I can see you in the headlight:)

You should see the 4K. You can identify people in the reflections.

4K reflections... Doh!

Paul Leeming

10-29-2007, 11:05 PM

Great footage! Bummer about the tunnel shot having a cutter or something just in the left side of frame at the end, though in post it can doubtless be edited around or digitised out if you were really wanting the whole shot.

"There is no fate but what we make...." - this quote jumped out at me when watching the tarmac go by and panning up to the chopper :) Love Terminator 2!!

Craig Ryan

10-29-2007, 11:05 PM

Can't say im tech savvy enough to comment on lens performance or what have you, but those shots are incredible. The 2nd one is beyond bad ass too..I'd bet that slick and wet street would put a smile on Zemeckis' face hehe.

Geoff Reisner

10-29-2007, 11:08 PM

"There is no fate but what we make...." - this quote jumped out at me when watching the tarmac go by and panning up to the chopper :) Love Terminator 2!!

That is exactly what I saw as well...I was thinking of both the shot when they are making their way to Cyberdyne and then at the very end.

Dave Weber

10-30-2007, 09:04 AM

Love the shots. They were Bad Ass! Thanks Evin! :red_bandana:

SF Geek

10-30-2007, 11:24 AM

So Brook, you shot down the Optimo and the Cooke S4's, sooo what lenses aren't underwhelming? I have to say, I'm surprised that you felt that the Cooke's performed the same as a set of standard speeds.

Evin Grant

10-30-2007, 11:46 AM

We've yet to try Ultra Primes or Master primes, I wouldn't say we were underwhelmed, the S4s performed beautifully they just didn't stand out quite as much as their reputation seemed to imply. This probably has more to do with the sensor and it's low LPH requirements. I do love the warm look they have but with a Raw camera this is very easy to acomplish with any lens. On a purely bang for buck ratio the Standard Speed Zeiss lenses (T2.1) performed extrordinarily well.

Here's a subjective comparison...
Sharpness: Tie (Cooke very slightly better in corners)
Build/mechanics: Cooke
Size/Weight: Zeiss
Breathing: Cooke
Flare Character: Zeiss
Color: Cooke (Not really an issue due to Raw)
Focus draw/Ease: Cooke
Bokeh: Zeiss (Some but not all S4s have a strange star shaped iris at some stops)

I'm going to have to do some more testing but I won't hesitate to shoot any of these very fine optics.

Brook Willard

10-30-2007, 01:23 PM

I'll disagree with Evin on some points - most notably the Bökeh. The S4s rendered some perfect WFO Bökeh from speculars that simply would've been gone on the standards. While they may be very similar at resolving objects in focus, the S4s seem to triumph at keeping OOF elements predictable [instead of slightly mushy]. That's not a dig on the standards as much as it's kudos to the S4s.

The thing is, when we had the lenses on the camera and looked at the monitor, we all gave a collective "...hmph". The HD-SDI and HDMI pipeline in the camera seemed to be emphasizing the aberrations more than the RAW pipeline did, but simply put... there was more CA than I would've hoped for on lenses of that caliber. The bang:buck ratio just wasn't there for me. If the lenses cost 5-6 times more, some illogical dreaming part of me wishes for 5-6 times better performance. :)

That said, the cans are absolute sex. It's the smoothest lens ever.

I have experience with UPs and MPs in the film end. I've always been happy with them. I'm very excited to have some hands-on time with UPs and MPs on the RED.

SF, it's not that I'm shooting them down - both the S4s and Optimo are freaking sweet - I just wish they were/expected for them to be better.

Cüneyt Kaya

10-30-2007, 02:29 PM

How many hours can you use one redbattery. evf+LCD.

How long will it take to charge them full?

these shots are very cool.

albert rudnicki

10-30-2007, 04:02 PM

Great shots Evin !

Larry McKee

10-30-2007, 05:08 PM

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/161_1193720716.jpg

Trying to figure out if the reflections are playing a weird trick with the wood bars or if this is a bit of a wobble issue. I'm thinking reflection. Watch the bars when as camera passes by bike.

Steve

I watched it again and I think it is a combination of the water reflections and shadows from the straw hanging from the roof.

Larry McKee

10-30-2007, 05:39 PM

Kinda silly looking aren't they?
Fun to look at or for going in a straight line, but God help you if you need to turn quickly.

Yeah, I took my 22 year old Harley for a 6,600 mile ride back in August. Along the way, we hit the Tail of the Dragon, a road on the North Carolina - Tennessee border that has 318 curves in 11 miles. Wouldn't want to take on a trip like that on one of those beasts. They are nice to look at though.

Matt Uhry

10-31-2007, 01:26 AM

Hi Evin, Cool shots, I'm glad to see some more stuff that falls into the "put that on your reel" category. Nice shooting.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Evin Grant

10-31-2007, 02:46 AM

Thanks! It's definately some of my most cinematic work yet.

Shane V8F

11-19-2007, 11:58 PM

Evin,

When can I get a copy of the whole spot? I just finished a movie with a crew from India and showed them the clip you gave me that I shot from the jib on the Shotmaker. They are very interested in what they saw, and want to see more. They are talking about changing all of Bollywood productions from 35mm to the new world of RED production.

Shane

John Tissavary

11-20-2007, 12:42 AM

Rick Darge

11-20-2007, 01:50 AM

Evin,

They are talking about changing all of Bollywood productions from 35mm to the new world of RED production.

Shane

Holy crap..

Emmanuel Cambier

11-20-2007, 03:41 AM

Red + Bollywood = something rather explosive

Larry McKee

11-20-2007, 07:06 AM

Thanks for the link Lunacie. Looks incredible!

Greg M

11-20-2007, 09:45 AM

Evin,
How did you start/stop the camera on the Jib?

John Tissavary

11-20-2007, 11:27 PM

Evin,
How did you start/stop the camera on the Jib?

Brook atcually climbed off the Shotmaker between every take to stop & start it by hand! Ack!

I'm really impressed by Evin's new McGuyver action on the Ford spot, though:

http://www.redninjas.net/ford2.jpg

Not only is Evin a really fantastic DP & Operator, he can rig a remote follow focus with two peanuts, a chewing gum wrapper, and a 9 volt battery!

cheers,

jt