Lens Package Options for Epic (1/2011)

[Julio Quintana]

Hey guys. So I started another thread asking for advice on Canon lenses, but the discussion eventually broadened into Canon and PL options, so I thought it might be useful to compile what people think are good PACKAGES (not just individual lenses). Any kind of lens package is fair game, just please include prices wherever possible so it's easy to compare. Here are mine. I'll add to this list as others post:

CANON ZOOM SET
Tokina 11-16mm f2.8______$600
Canon 16-35mm f2.8______$1400
Canon 24-70mm f2.8______$1300
Canon 70-200mm f2.8L II__$2250
TOTAL
$5,550

NIKON ZOOM SET
Tokina 11-16mm f2.8_____$600
Nikkor 14-24mm f2.8_____$2000
Nikkor 24-70mm f2.8_____$1600
Nikkor 70-200mm f2.8 II__$2200
Total
$6,400

NIKON PRIME SET
Nikon 16mm f2.8_____$1000
Nikon 24mm f1.4 G___$1900
Nikon 35mm 1.4 G____$1900
Nikon 50mm 1.4 G____$400
Nikon 85mm 1.4 G____$1800
Total
$7000

ZEISS ZE (Canon) PRIMES
18mm f3.5____$1400
21mm f2.8____$1700
35mm f2______$1000
50mm f2______$1200
85mm f1.4____$1300
100mm f2_____$1800
Total
$8,400

CANON PRIME SET
Canon 14mm f2.8_______$2100
Canon 24mm f1.4L II____$1700
Canon 35mm f1.4L______$1400
Canon 50mm f1.2L______$1600
Canon 85mm f1.2L II____$1800
Canon 135mm f2_______$1000
TOTAL
$9,600

RED ZOOM SET
RED Pro 17-50mm f2.9__________$6000
RED 50-150mm f3______________$8500
TOTAL
$14,500

Zeiss Standard Speed primes
16mm T2.1_____________$3500
24mm T2.1_____________$3500
32mm T2.1_____________$3500
50mm T2.1_____________$3500
85mm T2.1_____________$3500
Total (used)
$17,500

Unique Optics Razor 7D Set f1.9
(18, 25, 35, 50, 85, 100)
Total
$21,500

RED PRIME SET
RED Prime 18mm f1.9____________$3,800
RED Prime Set (25, 35, 50, 85, 100) f1.9___$19,000
TOTAL
$22,800

ZEISS Compact Primes 2
18mm f3.6______$3900
25mm f2.9______$3900
35mm f2.1______$3900
50mm f2.1______$3900
85mm f2.1______$3900
100mm f2.1_____$4900
Total
$24,400

Schneider Cine-Xenar Prime Set ~T2.0
18mm T1.9_____$????
(25, 35, 50, 75, 95)____$22,500
Total
~$27,500

S35 Illumina Set T1.3
35mm Set (18, 25, 35, 50, 85)
Total
$30,000

Zeiss MKI Super Speed Set T1.3
(18, 25, 35, 50, & 85)
Total (used)
~$25,000

Unique Optics PL Set T1.9
Signature Series Set (18, 25, 35, 50, 85, 100)
Total
$32,000

Angenieux Optimo Zoom T2.8 Set
Angenieux Optimo DP Rouge 16-42mm____$20,500
Angenieux Optimo DP Rouge 30-80mm____$20,500
Total
$41,000

Cooke Panchro Lens Set T2.8 across
Cooke PANCHRO 18mm_____$8900
PANCHRO Set (25, 32, 50, 75, 100)___$33,600
Total
$42,500

Arri/Zeiss Ultra Prime Set T1.9
(16, 24, 32, 50, 85, 100)
Total
$77,000

Arri/Zeiss Master Prime Set T1.3
(18, 25, 35, 50, 75, 100)
Total
$135,000

Leica Summilux-C Prime Set T1.4 across
(18, 21, 25, 35, 40, 50, 75, 100)
Total
$178,000

[Tonaci Tran]

Angenieux Optimo Zoom T2.8 Set
Angenieux Optimo DP Rouge 16-42mm Zoom Lens 20,500
Angenieux Optimo DP Rouge 30-80mm Zoom Lens 20,500
Total 41,000

Cooke Panchro Lens Set T2.8 across
Cooke 18mm PANCHRO Lens - 8900
PANCHRO Lens Set ( 25mm, 32mm , 50mm, 75mm & 100mm) - $33,600
Total 42,500

Leica Summilux-C Prime Set T1.4 across
18mm, 21mm, 25mm, 35mm, 40mm, 50mm, 75mm, and 100mm - $178,000

[Elsie N]

Starters kit

Nikon Zoom set
Nikkor f/4 G 16-35 approx $1200
Nikkor f/3.5-5.6 G 28-300 approx $1100

[Dustin Cross]

Optar Illumina T1.3 Set
35mm Set (18, 25, 35, 50, 85)___$27,000


Unique optics T1.9 Set
Signature Series Set (18, 25, 35, 50, 85, 100) __$32,000
Razor 7D (18, 25, 35, 50, 85, 100)__$21,500


The Illuminas might be a little more, but that is the price I have in am e-mail for some reason.


Dusty

[Julio Quintana]

Let's also put the usual suspects on here like Super Speeds (all versions), Ultra Primes, Master Primes, etc. I have no experience purchasing high end glass so maybe other people could chime in on prices and ideal packages.

[Tom Lowe]

Maybe....

Canon EOS converted 14mm Master Prime_____$30,000?
Canon 16-35mm f2.8______$1400
Canon 24mm f1.4L II____$1800
Canon 50mm f1.2L______$1600
Canon 70-200mm f2.8L II__$2250
Canon 85mm f1.2L II____$1800
Canon 500mm f/4____$6200

TOTAL
$45,000

[Julio Quintana]

Maybe....

Canon EOS converted 14mm Master Prime_____$30,000?
Canon 16-35mm f2.8______$1400
Canon 24mm f1.4L II____$1800
Canon 50mm f1.2L______$1600
Canon 70-200mm f2.8L II__$2250
Canon 85mm f1.2L II____$1800
Canon 500mm f/4____$6200

TOTAL
$45,000

LOL. Tom, you would add $30,000 to a Canon package just for one focal length? Don't you think most people would just buy the Canon 14mm f2.8 so the package looks like this?


Canon 14mm f2.8_____$2000
Canon 16-35mm f2.8______$1400
Canon 24mm f1.4L II____$1800
Canon 50mm f1.2L______$1600
Canon 85mm f1.2L II____$1800
Canon 70-200mm f2.8L II__$2250
Canon 500mm f/4____$6200
Total
$17,050

[Tom Lowe]

LOL. Tom, you would add $30,000 to a Canon package just for one focal length? Don't you think most people would just buy the Canon 14mm f2.8 so the package looks like this?

Hehe. But trust me when I tell you that I have some very specific uses for that 12mm or 14mm Master Prime! Mostly it's for specialized astrophotography... like filming astro timelapse from a moving boat at Lake Powell, for example. But I also love the idea of being able to use that 14mm MP on a Steadicam in super low light (after sunset or at night at 24fps), as another example. A couple stops could make a huge difference for some shots I have in mind, and the ultra-wide, ultra-fast, ultra-sharp, 5K-ready prime is the one thing missing from a Canon still lens package, from my point of view. I can live with the iris nonsense, and I actually prefer a shorter focus through for the type of stuff I am shooting now.

[Christopher Barrett]

Placing my deposit for the Cooke Panchros on monday with ZGC... to quote Tonaci:
Cooke Panchro Lens Set T2.8 across
Cooke 18mm PANCHRO Lens - 8900
PANCHRO Lens Set ( 25mm, 32mm , 50mm, 75mm & 100mm) - $33,600
Total 42,500

For low light I'll back these up with Zeiss ZF's

35 T/1.4 $2093 with Duclos Mod (This Lens shipping SOMETIME this year)
50 T/1.4 $1075 with Duclos Mod
85 T/1.4 $1625 with Duclos Mod

Plus I have my RPS 17-50 that I'm pretty sure I'll hold onto.

CB

[Julio Quintana]

I added a couple of more and went ahead and put them all in order by price. Does anybody know the f-stops for the Unique Optics Razor 7D Set?

[paul engstrom]

I would prefer the Nikon 14-24 over the 17-35, as would, I think, most people.

[Julio Quintana]

I would prefer the Nikon 14-24 over the 17-35, as would, I think, most people.

Done.

[paul engstrom]

Most would probably get the top Nikon 70-200 II as well, which goes for about $2100. It is the lens most similar to Canon's 70-200 II.

[Julio Quintana]

Most would probably get the top Nikon 70-200 II as well, which goes for about $2100. It is the lens most similar to Canon's 70-200 II.

Ha. Okay.

[Julio Quintana]

I just want to point out that the only lenses on this list cheaper than the RED Pro Primes (besides RED zooms) are ones designed for still cameras. RPP's seem to hold up as a pretty tremendous value.

[James Brundige]

I would prefer the Nikon 14-24 over the 17-35, as would, I think, most people.

14 - 24 is a special tool, and difficult to filter. It's an amazing lens, but my 17-35 spends a lot more time on the camera. When I'm on the move, it's a real go-to, and the screw on filters are quick.

The 17 -35 beats the hell out of my carefully collected AIS Nikkor prime set. There's something about the latest Nikon glass.

I've heard great things about the new G series primes, redesigned for digital. I've heard the new 85 finally surpasses the classic 85 AIS (which I will still keep), same for 35 mm.

For my Epic, I plan to compare those to the Zeiss ZF series.

Thoughts, reactions?

[Julio Quintana]

I own the Nikon 17-35mm and I really love it, but I've never used the 14-24mm so I'm just taking Paul's word for it.

The list is getting pretty comprehensive now. This would be a great time for people to start listing the strengths and weaknesses of the different options presented. It would also be great if people could say which set they would be most likely to buy vs. rent and why. Maybe people could also say how much they would be willing to pay to rent specific sets. Here, for example, are my votes:

Buy: RED Pro Primes
I haven't worked with them, but they seem like an amazing value compared to all other PL mount sets. I only wish they weren't so big. I have also seen some troubling posts about rainbow flares, but most people find it to be a very minor issue.

Rent: Zeiss Super Speeds
Although they are basically unusable wide open, they are really small and light, which is a big plus for me. They are also pretty abundant, so rates are reasonable. Here in Austin, a set of five rents for about $1000-$1200/week.

[James Brundige]

For my style, single operator with no need for AC's and the like, still lenses are great. I believe the new Nikons are every bit as good as most cine primes, optically speaking. (of course the mechanics of the cine lenses are far superior - you ought to get something for the extra $40K)

I'll be testing them against various Zeiss to make sure, but I'd like to nominate this set for consideration:

Nikon 24 mm 1.4 G $1900
Nikon 35 MM 1.4 G $1900
Nikon 50 mm 1.4 G $400
Nikon 85 mm 1.4 G $1800

Total for this set $6000

Add the 14 -24 zoom, 28 -70, and prime telephotos and it's a really full kit. The only thing I don't care for is the extra small size of the 50 mm - harder to share matteboxes.

This will of course rest on the availability of camera based electronic aperture control.

[Julio Quintana]

Thanks James. I added a Nikon 16mm f2.8 to your list just to try and keep it consistent with the other sets. You're probably right, though, that most people would probably cover the wide end with the 14-24mm instead since they're the same f-stop.

[Shane Kelly]

I added a couple of more and went ahead and put them all in order by price. Does anybody know the f-stops for the Unique Optics Razor 7D Set?

here:
http://www.uniqoptics.net/pdfs/uniqoptics_pricelist_2010.pdf
I haven't heard anything about these lenses since last NAB.

[Julio Quintana]

Thanks Shane. Updated.

[Rob Ruffo]

On Canon - the 135 is junk for cine - focus does not move nicely - it "jitters".

I'd say a 70-200 zoom is a better bet.

[Trevor Emmerson]

The only thing I don't care for is the extra small size of the 50 mm

Same. There are rumors going around that a 50 mm f1.2 G series lens might be released this year, which one would expect to be closer to the dimensions of the 24, 35, and 85 G's.

This is the prime set i am looking to put together for use with Epic-S, but with the 60mm f2.8 macro instead of the 50 1.4 to start, in the hope a 50 1.2 isn't far away

[Benjamin Rowland]

This post should be made a sticky.

[Bérenger Brillante]

If I had to go Nikon

I would take this :

Nikkor 14-24mm f2.8_____$2000
Nikon 35mm 1.4 G____$1900
Nikon 50mm 1.4 G____$400
Nikon 85mm 1.4 G____$1800
Nikkor 70-200mm f2.8 II__$2200

Total $8300
Most users rarely need the shallow dof below 25mm and longer than 85mm doesn't necessary need highspeed, because it's getting hard to focus, and 100mm at 2.8 is still nice, and the only faster lens is the 105mm only T2.0 not 1.4 (and an old lens too)

[James Brundige]

Same. There are rumors going around that a 50 mm f1.2 G series lens might be released this year, which one would expect to be closer to the dimensions of the 24, 35, and 85 G's.

This is the prime set i am looking to put together for use with Epic-S, but with the 60mm f2.8 macro instead of the 50 1.4 to start, in the hope a 50 1.2 isn't far away

Great news. A 77 mm front 50 mm lens would really make a set. Have you used the G primes? I'm waiting to see when Red actually supports electronic aperture control to pull the trigger. Zeiss ZF if it takes too long.

[Mike Van Laanen]

I agree with Benjamin on the sticky idea.

[Trevor Emmerson]

James, i haven't used the G primes as yet. I'm waiting to see how they will play with Epic as well. The 24 and 85 particularly have received rave reviews from stills guys, but across the board i think its pretty much as good as its going to get for a set of modern digital lenses.

Aperture control will almost certainly not be an issue as its been stated many times that all electronic features on these modern lenses will be able to be controlled by the camera.

It is more the unknown factors of how effective the algorithms Red is having to write for autofocus on these 3rd party lenses are, and how that autofocus works when tracking subjects in motion. As well as how the touch focus features work with nikon/canon stills glass compared with Reds upcoming electric offerings or the tried and tested manual everything shooting style used with traditional cine glass.

I'm loathe to misquote Jim on this, but i think from memory the phrase game changing or similar was mentioned in regard to this new hybrid style of shooting. We're all waiting with baited breath to see how it works in practice b4 making final decisions on glass. At least i am anyway.

If cine glass turns out to still be preferable for what i want to do, then its Cooke Panchros all the way for me. Haven't used them, but have been in love since moment i saw them and have heard nothing but good things. To me T2.8 is not too slow at all when matched to modern sensors like MX and the round the corner Monstro.

[James Brundige]

My only feature work is second unit, so I hope to stay with the still glass. I guess it depends on the DP's choice, so I'll rent if needed. I wonder if the Nikons can intercut with cine primes, or if the color rendition is too different.

Anyone tried this?

[Kobe Van Steenberghe]

The price for the illuminas is actually USD$29,995.

They were USD$26,995 but went up on newyear.

http://www.fjsinternational.com/lenses.html

[Julio Quintana]

The price for the optar illumina's is actually USD$29,995.

They were USD$26,995 but went up on newyear.

http://www.fjsinternational.com/lenses.html

Thanks, Kobe. Updated.

[Fred Salaff]

The S35mm lenses from Luma Tech, made by the LOMO factory in St. Petersburg are called S35mm Illuminas. There is no such name as S35mm Optar Illuminas.
The price for a set of S35mm Illuminas is now $29,995.

[Julio Quintana]

The S35mm lenses from Luma Tech, made by the LOMO factory in St. Petersburg are call S35mm Illuminas. There is no such name as S35mm Optar Illuminas.
The price for a set of S35mm Illuminas is now $29,995.

Thanks, Fred. I made the change.

[Julio Quintana]

Hey guys. I have a question about the Zeiss Compact Primes. With the completely inconsistent f-stops, especially in the wides, why would anyone pay $24,000 for these? If you want cinema grade PL glass, the RED Primes seem much more professional. If it's about the physical size, you could find a set of used Zeiss Super Speeds for just a little more. And if it's about needing a Canon mount, for $24,000 you could get two full sets of Canon primes and have a spare 5D to boot. Am I missing something here?

[Ryan Lalonde]

Hey guys. I have a question about the Zeiss Compact Primes. With the completely inconsistent f-stops, especially in the wides, why would anyone pay $24,000 for these? If you want cinema grade PL glass, the RED Primes seem much more professional. If it's about the physical size, you could find a set of used Zeiss Super Speeds for just a little more. And if it's about needing a Canon mount, for $24,000 you could get two full sets of Canon primes and have a spare 5D to boot. Am I missing something here?

I think the main selling point would be that they are primes you can use on your DSLR, but unlike using Canon L series primes they do not breathe. (I haven't used one Canon/Sigma lense that would be suitable for any type of film work where focus pulling is required)

[Julio Quintana]

I think the main selling point would be that they are primes you can use on your DSLR, but unlike using Canon L series primes they do not breathe. (I haven't used one Canon/Sigma lense that would be suitable for any type of film work where focus pulling is required)

Makes sense I guess. I just usually associate DSLR's with tighter budgets, and the Compact Primes seem a little pricey, especially when compared to their faster Canon counterparts.

Julio

[KETCH ROSSi]

The choice its easy..

Red Pro Prime Set T1.8 across
(18, 25, 35, 50, 85, 100)
Total
$23,000

Arri Master Prime set T1.3 across
(18, 25, 35, 50 75, 100 Macro)
Total $130ish

Leica Summilux-C Prime Set T1.4 across
(18, 21, 25, 35, 40, 50, 75, 100)
Total
$178,000

Still not sure on the Zoom side, need to have some serious tests done with the Customized RPZ 17-50's to know more, if not the best bet for 3D will be ...


Angenieux Optimo Zoom T2.8 Set
Angenieux Optimo DP Rouge 16-42mm Zoom Lens 20,500
Angenieux Optimo DP Rouge 30-80mm Zoom Lens 20,500
Total 41,000


Canon "L" series for some Photography work and possibly some DocuFilm work in super light set up.

[Julio Quintana]

Hey Ketch. Would you mind telling us why you prefer the Leicas over the Master Primes? I'm sure you've mentioned it in another thread, but it might be useful to post it in this thread as well.

[Christopher Barrett]

The choice its easy..

Still not sure on the Zoom side, need to have some serious tests done with the Customized RPZ 17-50's to know more, if not the best bet for 3D will be

Customized? Ketch, are you Duclosing your RPZ?

Duclos
-verb
1. to improve mechanically; to rehouse; to augment original designs; to smoothen movement; to increase the accuracy of (Specifically in regards to Cinematography Lenses)

[James Brundige]

Evin Grant. Thanks for all your lens information over the years. This thread seems more current than other stickies. What's the best way to keep the data base up to date?

[paul engstrom]

Hey Ketch. Would you mind telling us why you prefer the Leicas over the Master Primes? I'm sure you've mentioned it in another thread, but it might be useful to post it in this thread as well.

Why Leicas rather than Master Primes?

1. Leica glass creates a different image that many prefer (I'm basing this on stills and Primos -- the new lenses are sure to have similar characteristics) = happy DP
2. Size -- the Leica lenses are considerable smaller/lighter = happy camera op.
3. Scales -- the Leica lenses essentially share the same focus scales across their lens line -- crazy but true. An AC can get used to the focus distance on the lens(es) and achieve an extra degree of muscle memory with their focus pulls = happy AC
4. Cheaper than Master Primes -- people think these lenses are expensive; relative to their closest competitiong (Master Primes and S5i lenses) they are not expensive--they're actually pretty reasonably priced = happy PM

Add points 1-4 = Happy Producer

Oh -- and you can easily stick nets on 'em too.

[paul engstrom]

Other lenses:

Uniq Optics -- I know of two sets locally that are doing pretty well. Good build quality.
Arri Alura zooms -- same thing -- well received. The long one being used in lieu of the 12x Optimo.

[Eric Ulbrich]

Hey guys quick question regarding the Dp rouge set. Does anyone know if the image circle will cover 5k full from for both lenses without any vignetting on the edges? Seems to me that all these lens options are great but how many will actually cover 5k?

[Evin Grant]

The DPs actually have bigger image circles than their film counterparts so I think they will be GTG for 5K. Matt Duclos probably knows best.

You should add Zeiss Standards as well. They generally go for $16-17.5K per set of 5 (16,24,32,50 & 85mm). They are very sharp and small lenses that are popular with many Redusers (including me) because of their organic image and high resolution.
IMHO they are a much better choice for 4K & 5K than Supers. Also MKI Supers generally go for around $20-25K not $30K from what I've seen.

[paul engstrom]

Angenieux says the DP lenses will cover 32mm sensor size (5k) provided you get the second version of the 16-42, (as the first version only covered 28mm -- not enough for 5k). By the way, you can now order black (or blue) versions of these instead of the red colored version.

[Evin Grant]

Actually they come with both the red and blue rings, I had to pay extra for black. Although hopefully that has changed.

[Pierre Alt]

[QUOTE=Julio Quintana;709232]


ZEISS Compact Primes 2
50mm f1.5______$3900
85mm f1.5______$3900

ZEISS Compact Primes 1
50mm f1.5
85mm f1.5

but ZEISS Compact Primes 2 :
50mm t2.1
85mm t2.1

[Julio Quintana]

Thanks, Pierre. Updated.

[George A.]

We have tested many lenses on the RED ONE...

We found that the Canon K35 Superspeeds had the most cinematic look - they produce a very filmic, creamy image. After much testing, we became big supporters of slightly older glass on digital cameras in general, and of K35s in particular.

Compared to the Zeiss Superspeeds, they are sharper wide-open. The apertures and size are about the same.

They are small and compact - perfect for the smaller EPICs which are about to be released in the wild.

And, best of all, all the lenses cover 5K and the upcoming full-frame 6K (36mmx24mm). All the lenses in our set (14, 18, 24, 35, 55, 85, 135 and 200) cover full frame! They will be quite something on MONSTRO, when one will be able to take full advantage of the huge sensor (either for still application, or for cine - including 4x3 and all widescreen ratios).

And, they are not hugely expensive.

So we went with the Canon K35s.

[Julio Quintana]

Hi George. Do you have any images from the Canons you would be willing to share with us?

[George A.]

Hi George. Do you have any images from the Canons you would be willing to share with us?

Hopefully soon, if I get clearance from the producers.

However, the look is quite well-known, the K35s have been around for a while. They are getting more and more respect in the industry as they get better known, and I expect their popularity to explode once larger sensors hit the market.

[Martin Stevens]

Does anyone know where you can ACTUALLY buy a (new) set
of these Canon K35 lenses?

[Evin Grant]

Does anyone know where you can ACTUALLY buy a (new) set
of these Canon K35 lenses?

You can't, they haven't been made since the 80s.

[Martin Stevens]

You can't, they haven't been made since the 80s.

Thanks Evin,

Are there any used out there?

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hey Ketch. Would you mind telling us why you prefer the Leicas over the Master Primes? I'm sure you've mentioned it in another thread, but it might be useful to post it in this thread as well.



Actually I have loved the Master Primes ever since I first pay with them when they first came out, absolutely
the Best Glass i the World, and still are, however the new Leica Summilux-C are lighter and with a smaller
95mm front diameter same as the popular even smaller and lighter Ultra Primes.

But at the end we end up going with the RPZ and Master Primes for our new Studios ;)



Customized? Ketch, are you Duclosing your RPZ?

Duclos
-verb
1. to improve mechanically; to rehouse; to augment original designs; to smoothen movement; to increase the accuracy of (Specifically in regards to Cinematography Lenses)

Cristopher, our beautiful set of RPP's have been done by Duclos via a close collaboration to achieve the right Focal to be added, and they did in incredible job at it.

And as time will allow we will service our RPZ's as well.



Why Leicas rather than Master Primes?

1. Leica glass creates a different image that many prefer (I'm basing this on stills and Primos -- the new lenses are sure to have similar characteristics) = happy DP
2. Size -- the Leica lenses are considerable smaller/lighter = happy camera op.
3. Scales -- the Leica lenses essentially share the same focus scales across their lens line -- crazy but true. An AC can get used to the focus distance on the lens(es) and achieve an extra degree of muscle memory with their focus pulls = happy AC
4. Cheaper than Master Primes -- people think these lenses are expensive; relative to their closest competitiong (Master Primes and S5i lenses) they are not expensive--they're actually pretty reasonably priced = happy PM

Add points 1-4 = Happy Producer

Oh -- and you can easily stick nets on 'em too.


My main point of Leica vs. Master Primes was size/weight factor for 3D work,
but at the end as said above, I just love the Master Primes too much, and the long wait on
the Leica since we lost our place in line, is not a choice.

As far as image quality, Bokeh, and over all fill to me there is nothing yet that has come close to the Master Primes.

But wil enjoy playing wt the Leicas soon in off ;)

BUt the Leicas are NOT better then the Master Primes or Vice versa.

[Mark L. Pederson]

however the new Leica Summilux-C are lighter and with a smaller
95mm front diameter same as the popular even smaller and lighter Ultra Primes.

Not correct. Common misconception.

Ultra primes are 95mm front as well (except 10mm, 12mm, 14mm)

They are 91mm long - Leicas are 142mm long.

Ultra Primes weight 2.2-2.6 lbs for most of the set vs. 3.5-4lbs for Leicas.

MANY of the big 3D films are shooting on Ultra Primes.

[Mark L. Pederson]

The DPs actually have bigger image circles than their film counterparts so I think they will be GTG for 5K. Matt Duclos probably knows best.

You should add Zeiss Standards as well. They generally go for $16-17.5K per set of 5 (16,24,32,50 & 85mm). They are very sharp and small lenses that are popular with many Redusers (including me) because of their organic image and high resolution.
IMHO they are a much better choice for 4K & 5K than Supers. Also MKI Supers generally go for around $20-25K not $30K from what I've seen.

Both Optimo DPs - 16-42mm and 30-80mm fully cover 5K on EPIC.

Excellent glass - fast ROI - HIGHLY recommend.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Not correct. Common misconception.

Ultra primes are 95mm front as well (except 10mm, 12mm, 14mm)

They are 91mm long - Leicas are 142mm long.

Ultra Primes weight 2.2-2.6 lbs for most of the set vs. 3.5-4lbs for Leicas.

MANY of the big 3D films are shooting on Ultra Primes.

What I meant was to say that they are the same as the UP with 95mm front element, not exactly
as the same weight, as I know they are not, I have all measurements, sizes and full Spec shits
of all lenses ;)

Yeah I also am aware of almost every one shooting UP's on 3D, but I want T1.3, T1.4 and I will not use the hold
Super speed Zeiss ;) So its either Master Primes or Leicas, so for now its Master Primes ;)

[Jarred Land]

Not correct. Common misconception.

Ultra primes are 95mm front as well (except 10mm, 12mm, 14mm)

They are 91mm long - Leicas are 142mm long.

Ultra Primes weight 2.2-2.6 lbs for most of the set vs. 3.5-4lbs for Leicas.

MANY of the big 3D films are shooting on Ultra Primes.

yes yes yes and yes.

and not many.. most of the big 3D films are on Ultra Primes.. go try and buy a set of them right now, they are harder to get than an EPIC :)

[Evin Grant]

Both Optimo DPs - 16-42mm and 30-80mm fully cover 5K on EPIC.

Excellent glass - fast ROI - HIGHLY recommend.

Indeed, that's why I bought the 16-42, the 30-80 will be coming with my next TV show, hopefully along with the new Duclos/Nikkor zoom. 16-200mm T2.8 and handholdable in just three zooms.... Love it!:thumbsup:

[Ariel Weiss]

If I had to go Nikon

I would take this :

Nikkor 14-24mm f2.8_____$2000
Nikon 35mm 1.4 G____$1900
Nikon 50mm 1.4 G____$400
Nikon 85mm 1.4 G____$1800
Nikkor 70-200mm f2.8 II__$2200

Total $8300
Most users rarely need the shallow dof below 25mm and longer than 85mm doesn't necessary need highspeed, because it's getting hard to focus, and 100mm at 2.8 is still nice, and the only faster lens is the 105mm only T2.0 not 1.4 (and an old lens too)

I would add the new 24 f1.4 G. I think 28 is a must, there is a 28 f2.8 very cheap and excellent. http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/28f28ais.htm

[Mark L. Pederson]

Yeah I also am aware of almost every one shooting UP's on 3D, but I want T1.3, T1.4 and I will not use the hold
Super speed Zeiss ;) So its either Master Primes or Leicas, so for now its Master Primes ;)

Well ... I totally respect that you want T1.3, 1.4 for 2D work. Comes in handy. But for 3D - you will almost NEVER be at a T1.3 because the depth of field is too shallow. We shoot a couple 3D spots a month and our third all RED 3D feature film rolls March 14th in NYC - so ... I'm speaking from a fair amount of experience and testing.

Again, Master Primes are a great investment - I would just never use them for 3D. Just sayin ...

[Sven Seynaeve]

Has anyone used the Hawk anamorphs for 3d recently????

any experience. with them regarding 3d?

[KETCH ROSSi]

Well ... I totally respect that you want T1.3, 1.4 for 2D work. Comes in handy. But for 3D - you will almost NEVER be at a T1.3 because the depth of field is too shallow. We shoot a couple 3D spots a month and our third all RED 3D feature film rolls March 14th in NYC - so ... I'm speaking from a fair amount of experience and testing.

Again, Master Primes are a great investment - I would just never use them for 3D. Just sayin ...

While in deed the reason for the purchase of the Master Primes is for 2D work, and Photography work with Epic, we will in
deed do some serious tests in T1.3 for 3D, that is my intention, as I believe it could work well for what I envision.

So as son as we get our first 2 Epic cameras and our first Atom rig, will get a chance to test it ;)

[AnthonyFlores]

Yes, even though I'm not quite ready for them yet, really sad that the Leica C's are so delayed to mid-next year. Stupid Otto Nemenz!!! :P

Btw, will you be getting a set Mark?

I've considered the Ultra Primes for later this year, because of their lightness, 2.0 speed and also superior price to S4's ... but sad to see they are so hard to come by now ... $10,000 per lens is excellent for these :)

Mark, curious if you prefer the image of the Optimo DP Rouge on MX/Epic versus say the Cooke S4 or Panchro? Obviously the Optimo vs. Panchro is a better comparison because it's about the same speed/and price for the set of 6 Cookes versus the 2-lens set of Rouges (with both covering a pretty similar focal range) .... thoughts?

[Mark L. Pederson]

Yes, even though I'm not quite ready for them yet, really sad that the Leica C's are so delayed to mid-next year. Stupid Otto Nemenz!!! :P

Btw, will you be getting a set Mark?


Depends of what people want to rent. I'd like to see some tests shot on EPIC with those lenses when they are ready. I keep asking an getting the run around.



I've considered the Ultra Primes for later this year, because of their lightness, 2.0 speed and also superior price to S4's ... but sad to see they are so hard to come by now ... $10,000 per lens is excellent for these :)


Do yourself a favor - get a PO in now.




Mark, curious if you prefer the image of the Optimo DP Rouge on MX/Epic versus say the Cooke S4 or Panchro? Obviously the Optimo vs. Panchro is a better comparison because it's about the same speed/and price for the set of 6 Cookes versus the 2-lens set of Rouges (with both covering a pretty similar focal range) .... thoughts?

We are just wrapping a feature on MX with the Panchros - and I have to say - I REALLY like them - they are like "baby S4s" - and on a lens projector - they are VERY similar to the S4s but much smaller and lighter - but honestly, I like sharper glass for EPIC. I would buy the 2-lens set of Rouges over 6 Cookes for EPIC - but that's just me.

I have Cookes S4s are coming back from a job in a week or so - I'll post examples of the sharpness/falloff and you can judge for yourself.

[KETCH ROSSi]

I am with Mark on the Cookes, even so I know several friends DP's and Cinematographers that swear by them, I just don't like them,
not only for their well known Sharpness falloff, but for their warmer fill,

I much prefer the Very Sharp lenses such as the Master Primes, and now the Red Pro Primes,
as well as I love their Natural resolve in the IQ, just beautiful, then in Post I can direct any good Colorist to adjust at will,
but Sharpness it is something I crave, and place a softening filter when wanting that softer look, is better then the
need to do sharpening in post, even so many do no matter what, but I prefer to go much easy on the Sharpening tool.

Love the Optimo 24-290, but will be testing the new Arri/Fujinons before we buy in to Optimo.

[Mark L. Pederson]

will be testing the new Arri/Fujinons before we buy in to Optimo.

well ... you better test ten Arri/Fujinons to find the best one to test against an Optimo if you want a fair fight. Don't take my word for it - ask around.

[KETCH ROSSi]

well ... you better test ten Arri/Fujinons to find the best one to test against an Optimo if you want a fair fight. Don't take my word for it - ask around.

Oh, I have no doubts of the quality of the Optimo Mark, love them ;)

Just that need a smaller lighter zoom with similar range, and the new Arri/Fujinnon 45-250
16.5LB is not bad against the 24.5lb of the Optimo 24-290.

But, again I love the Optimos and the 24-290 is in the wish list, just that before buying I need to test teh Arri/Fujinon 45-250.

As far as smaller zooms, I'm not sure at all at the moment as I rarely will shoot Zooms,
and am extremely happy with the two RPZ's 17-50 and 18-85.

[AnthonyFlores]

Depends of what people want to rent. I'd like to see some tests shot on EPIC with those lenses when they are ready. I keep asking an getting the run around.



Do yourself a favor - get a PO in now.




We are just wrapping a feature on MX with the Panchros - and I have to say - I REALLY like them - they are like "baby S4s" - and on a lens projector - they are VERY similar to the S4s but much smaller and lighter - but honestly, I like sharper glass for EPIC. I would buy the 2-lens set of Rouges over 6 Cookes for EPIC - but that's just me.

I have Cookes S4s are coming back from a job in a week or so - I'll post examples of the sharpness/falloff and you can judge for yourself.

Thanks Mark, really appreciate the thoughtful reply. You rock! I will heed your advice ... and in the meantime, can't wait to see your examples of the Epic/S4 combo when the time comes :)

[AnthonyFlores]

I am with Mark on the Cookes, even so I know several friends DP's and Cinematographers that swear by them, I just don't like them,
not only for their well known Sharpness falloff, but for their warmer fill,

I much prefer the Very Sharp lenses such as the Master Primes, and now the Red Pro Primes,
as well as I love their Natural resolve in the IQ, just beautiful, then in Post I can direct any good Colorist to adjust at will,
but Sharpness it is something I crave, and place a softening filter when wanting that softer look, is better then the
need to do sharpening in post, even so many do no matter what, but I prefer to go much easy on the Sharpening tool.

Love the Optimo 24-290, but will be testing the new Arri/Fujinons before we buy in to Optimo.

Haha, yes Ketch I know you are not the biggest fan of Cookes. Actually the whole issue of lens sharpness vs. "character" is an fascinating debate to me -- there's an interesting thread about it from the GetDPI forum:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23184

(Sorry if it's not kosher to link to another forum.)

But I think ultimately it boils down quite often to personal preference. It's possible for certain lenses to be sharper but have less character or a less pleasing character, or vice versa.

As you know Ketch, some people would say that the Leicas are not quite as "razor sharp" as some other modern lenses ... but many people (me included) are totally in love with their character. Note: I'm talking about their still lenses, never seen a single image shot with their Cine line ...

Going back to the Cookes, for some people what the Cookes lose in sharpness they might make up for in character -- and as you say, it's often based on personal taste of the DP or director :)

Also, I'm guessing this is very much affected by the unique combination of lens to camera -- and lens character could be different depending on the camera/sensor it's being matched with. I think that's why we are all so eager to see Mark's tests with RPP's, Cookes, Optimos, etc because it will help us evaluate that subjective character aspect and better choose our lenses accordingly.

[Jason Sinclair]

I think what separates a great lens is how it does on the extremes and under difficult circumstances. Therefore, i hope the tests are run wide and at similar f/t stops in potential contrasting situations and hand held. I also hope a few nikons and canons will be included. I would pay a part for this service at this moment in time. I think it is really needed.

It's great to know someone can pick up a sub $100 lens (nikon 50mm 1.8) and seriously compete in this market like at no other point in time.

Obviously all round sharpness is king as it is the most workable entity in post environment.

What is the price point is what will be on everybody's lips.

[C.H.Haskell]

Both Optimo DPs - 16-42mm and 30-80mm fully cover 5K on EPIC.

Excellent glass - fast ROI - HIGHLY recommend.

What is considered a fast ROI...1 year, 2 years? Thanks Mark.

[rod bradley]

Julio, thanks for starting this thread. Very useful to many, I'm sure, including myself.

Just a note on the Nikon prime set -- if I'm not mistaken, the 16mm which I think is FF, would have the same FOV as the 24mm 1.4G -- so really would not be needed, lowering the overall cost by a grand.

[paul engstrom]

Julio, thanks for starting this thread. Very useful to many, I'm sure, including myself.

Just a note on the Nikon prime set -- if I'm not mistaken, the 16mm which I think is FF, would have the same FOV as the 24mm 1.4G -- so really would not be needed, lowering the overall cost by a grand.

This is a super great link for those of us interested in the new lens choices:

http://www.abelcine.com/fov/

I think you'll find the 24 to be, well, not quite as wide as you'd like on the Epic...

FOV would be same as putting a 20.5mm on the RED1.

[Julio Quintana]

Just a note on the Nikon prime set -- if I'm not mistaken, the 16mm which I think is FF, would have the same FOV as the 24mm 1.4G -- so really would not be needed, lowering the overall cost by a grand.

Hey Rod. A 16mm is a 16mm in every case and never changes, and a 24mm is always a 24mm and never changes. The only thing that changes the field of view of a certain lens is the frame size. For example, a 16mm on full frame might look like a 24mm if you put it on the RED, but that is because the smaller sensor is making the lens look tighter. But it is still a 16mm lens. The important thing is for people to know what a 16mm lens looks like on their particular format.

[James Brundige]

Just a note on the Nikon prime set -- if I'm not mistaken, the 16mm which I think is FF, would have the same FOV as the 24mm 1.4G -- so really would not be needed, lowering the overall cost by a grand.

The 16mm has a much wider FOV on every camera than the 24mm. Both lenses, when put on a camera with a smaller sensor, produce a narrower FOV. If you are used to Nikon speak, the Red sensor is close to a DX FOV.

For super wide, a lot of folks like the Tokina 11-16, built for the smaller (DX, APS-C, and Red) sensors.

I have the Nikon 10-24 DX, which is comparable to the Tokina. Neither can be used on a FF (Nikon FX) camera.

[Julio Quintana]

Hey guys. After much thought, I think I've finally decided on this Canon zoom set:

CANON ZOOM SET
Tokina 11-16mm f2.8______$600
Canon 16-35mm f2.8______$1400
Canon 24-70mm f2.8______$1300
Canon 70-200mm f2.8L II__$2250
TOTAL
$5,550


Here is why:

1. Price:
For $5500, I can cover every focal length from 11-200mm.

2. Weight and Size:
It is extremely convenient to be able to carry all of those focal lengths in one airline carry-on size bag.

3. Touch Screen and Auto Focus:
Although one of the biggest drawbacks of SLR lenses is their focus scales, one of the biggest drawbacks of PL lenses on Epic is the inability to take advantage of the electronic focus controls. Maybe the electronic controls will be crap. Or maybe it will usher in a new style of filmmaking. We'll see.

4. Rentability:
Most people testify that it is very difficult to rent out Red lenses as clients usually prefer Zeiss, Cooke, or Angenieux. That means that to tap into the cine market, I would have to invest around $30K minimum to get a used set of Zeiss Super Speeds. And unless I can make $25K on those lenses in the next two years, they don't make much financial sense over the Canon zooms.

So why not the Canon primes? Because I would probably rent a nice set of PL lenses for any serious project I do, so by purchasing SLR lenses, I am really just having something to get by. While it is nice that the Canon primes are faster, for $9700 I actually cover less focal range than the zooms (12-135mm), with a serious gap in the 13-23mm range. So for my purposes, the Canon zooms just seem like the best value in the sub $30K range.

Julio

[James Brundige]

Julio,

I own and use the Nikon version of that set, with a Canon 150-600 (converted to Nikon mount), and it works great. The zooms look better than the older Nikon primes I've collected, which is why I'll try some of the new G series primes, and compare to the Zeiss ZFs.

If you don't already own those lenses, you might consider the Nikon set, because the 14-24 is recognized as far superior. IMHO, the 17-35 Nikon is better in that range as well. The Canon 70-200 is fantastic, and Canon is known for their telephoto lenses.

I own both a D700 and 5D mkII, and have come to prefer Nikon for wider focal lengths, but clearly both manufacturers produce glass close enough to the resolving power of the Red. I am not a fan of the older still glass. I filter if I want a softer look for romantic close ups.

I'm waiting on a feature to see which cinema glass folks will go for, and can buy or rent at that time.

[Stephen Pruitt]

Hey there, Julio. . .

. . . there are going to be times when you are going to need some speed. Depending upon if your tastes run long or short, you will probably want to pick up a Canon 24, 35, or 50mm lens (1.4, 1.4, 1.2, respectively). I would probably pick the 35mm.

It just turns out that there is a heckofa speed difference between 2.8 and 1.4.

It's another $1500 or so, but you'll find you are using that fast lens quite a bit of the time at night.

Stephen

[Julio Quintana]

Stephen,
I think this is a good point. I had been debating adding the 24mm f1.4 to the set. Is it sharp wide open? I own a Nikon 50mm that i consider unusable at f1.4.

James,
I have been shooting with Nikons on my RED for the last 2 years, and I'm pretty tired of the reverse focus gear. And since the Epic will be shipping with a working Canon mount first, I'm ready to make the switch.

[Stephen Pruitt]

We absolutely LOVE the 24, 35, 50, and 85mm Canon L-glass wide open. (Oh, heck, we love all of our L-series glass wide-open.) In point of fact, I'll bet we shot 1/2 of our film using these lenses wide open in our new film, "Terminal." f1.4 was just fast enough for us to shoot interiors with absolutely minimum fill and practicals with only 15 watt bulbs (to keep from blowing out). We think all of these lenses are just super performers wide open. Remember, these are FF lenses, so edge sharpness is superb for our purposes.

The downside, of course, is that your depth of field is EXTREMELY narrow, especially for interior shots (when you're right up against the subjects), and that makes focus a real bear. But when you're on, you'll know it.

Like I said, I tend to shoot just about everything with a 35, 50, and 85mm lens anyway, so I'd get the 35 (we find it a nice compromise between too close and too far), but the 24 is a great lens, too, and is especially amazing for jib shots and stabilizers.

Trust me. . . you WILL need one of these lenses if you ever shoot at night. f2.8 is just way too slow if you don't want to bring a host of lights (which will add a lot of cost and take a ton of extra time). We were unable to use our 2.8 lenses on any night shots. But, then again, I loathe noise with a passion, so that could be part of our issue. We were able to use these lenses in very dark settings and not have any red on the lower goal post.

Stephen

[Tom Lowe]

The 24mm 1.4 II is sharp. The thing to look out for is coma when it's wide open. I've been told that the new Nikon G 24 1.4 is only marginally better.

[Julio Quintana]

The 24mm 1.4 II is sharp. The thing to look out for is coma when it's wide open. I've been told that the new Nikon G 24 1.4 is only marginally better.

Hey Tom, what do you mean by "coma"? Chromatic aberration?

[Steve Wake]

Hey Tom, what do you mean by "coma"? Chromatic aberration?

Two very different things:

http://www.lenstip.com/245.7-Lens_review-Canon_EF_24_mm_f_1.4L_II_USM_Coma_and_astigmatism. html

Not what you want if you want point sources like stars to look like points in the corners.

[Stephen Pruitt]

Coma is really not an issue at all with the 24mm on the RED. We have never found ANYTHING objectionable with that lens. Period. Now, if it is for you (or, rather, Julio), I can't say.

Stephen

[Steve Wake]

The link was mainly to clarify what is coma. And I probably should have said COMA is not what you want in the corners if you want stars to look like stars.

Probably not an issue for most people at any time given corner distortions are usually not too important. And from the test shots it is mitigated by the smaller APS/S35 sensor and stopping down. I wasn't trying to make a lens recommendation or diss anyone's 24.

[keith morton]

Updated

Red Pro Zoom 17-50- $6,000
Duclose/Nikon PL 80-200- $3,500
Duclose/Tokina PL 11-16- $3,500

updated total-$ 13,000

[Stephen Pruitt]

I'd like that set myself, Keith. . . just don't have $32,000. I think we have about $12,000 in all of our Canon glass. That extra $20,000 would have killed us.

And don't worry, Mr. Wake. . . I wasn't offended by your comments about the 24mm. I was just making a point to Julio that we have never experienced any problems using ours. Again, YMMV.

Stephen

[Julio Quintana]

Two very different things:

http://www.lenstip.com/245.7-Lens_review-Canon_EF_24_mm_f_1.4L_II_USM_Coma_and_astigmatism. html

Not what you want if you want point sources like stars to look like points in the corners.

Interesting. Thanks for the link, Steve.

[keith morton]

I'd like that set myself, Keith. . . just don't have $32,000. I think we have about $12,000 in all of our Canon glass. That extra $20,000 would have killed us.


Stephen

That's exactly what they're doing to me and also why I'm seriously thinking about selling the RPP (for the right offer) and replace them with Canon L series primes.

[William Graydon]

From a speculative stand point for now. IF I had the option (for mainly narrative filmmaking work) what prime lens package would be chosen.

UniQoptics prime set--$32,000
Zeiss CP.2 prime set-- $25,000
or Red Pro Prime set + 18mm-- $23,000

I do not have much knowledge on cine style prime lenses, hence the reason I am asking. I know UniQ has been getting alot of buzz on CML. Please advise.
Thanks to all in advance.

[Roberto Lequeux]

Hey Julio. Thanks for recompiling the list.

I found a typo on the Canon primes. You have a 12mm listed, which should be 14mm.

[Julio Quintana]

Thanks, Robert. Just fixed it.

[James Brundige]

James,
I have been shooting with Nikons on my RED for the last 2 years, and I'm pretty tired of the reverse focus gear. And since the Epic will be shipping with a working Canon mount first, I'm ready to make the switch.

Understandable. You can also add a follow focus with a reversed gear (I forgot the manufacturer).

Many seem to prefer the Nikon wide angles, as I do, but you have to get into some pretty extreme pixel peeping.

I guess the Canons come first because the focal distance is easier, or is it because Jarred has a bunch of Canons?

[Evin Grant]

I just got the new Nikon AF-S f1.4 G primes (24,35,50 & 85mm) and all I have to say is WOW! I think the only lenses I've seen perform this well wide open are master primes. truly stunning and IMHO totally blows the Canon 1.4/1.2s away. I'l try to post some samples later tonight.

[Julio Quintana]

I just got the new Nikon AF-S f1.4 G primes (24,35,50 & 85mm) and all I have to say is WOW! I think the only lenses I've seen perform this well wide open are master primes. truly stunning and IMHO totally blows the Canon 1.4/1.2s away. I'l try to post some samples later tonight.

I'm very curious to see these tests as I already own the Nikon 17-35mm f2.8 and the previous generation Nikon 50mm f1.4 (both on your recommendation). I was planning on making the jump over to Canon mostly because of the reverse focus direction, but if these new primes are as great as you say, I might just try and find a follow focus with reverse gearing.

[Evin Grant]

They are really only practical with the upcoming Nikon electronic mount from Red. The Redmote pro will give you customizable focus control similar to a Preston or Berger.

[Roberto Lequeux]

Evin, please do post samples. You are yet an other source I trust that I hear saying things like that about the new G primes. They sound like they might be a clear best still-set option with Epic once the Nikon mount is ready to hit the road.

[James Brundige]

I just got the new Nikon AF-S f1.4 G primes (24,35,50 & 85mm) and all I have to say is WOW! I think the only lenses I've seen perform this well wide open are master primes. truly stunning and IMHO totally blows the Canon 1.4/1.2s away. I'l try to post some samples later tonight.

I've heard raves about these lenses. In your opinion, how do they compare to the Zeiss ZF's ?

I wish they would make a 50 with a 77 mm front (I've heard rumors about an f 1.2 of that dimension??)

[Julio Quintana]

When's the last time we heard any news about the Nikon mount?

[paul engstrom]

They are really only practical with the upcoming Nikon electronic mount from Red. The Redmote pro will give you customizable focus control similar to a Preston or Berger.

I really wish RED would deliver basically just a focus knob that we can mount on a handle or rod. I love the Redmote Pro for a 1st AC pulling focus, but there have been plenty of times where I've pulled my own focus and would much prefer 'just a focus knob' on the operator side of the camera.

[Evin Grant]

I've heard raves about these lenses. In your opinion, how do they compare to the Zeiss ZF's ?

I wish they would make a 50 with a 77 mm front (I've heard rumors about an f 1.2 of that dimension??)

Different league entirely, I think the ZFs are fine lenses but they are 20 & 30 year old designs for the Contax system. They even hobbled the CP.2 85mm to T2.1 because the performance was noticeably lacking at 1.4. This is not an issue on a 5D but on an Epic it's going to be another story. The combination of new aspheric, floating element formulas as well as the new Nano crystal coating and AFS motor systems IMO really push the limits on what a still optic is capable of. Starting with the 14-24 & 24-70 2.8 zooms Nikon has really been pushing the bleeding edge of IQ, there is nothing like the 14-24 from any other manufacturer. I think the only other optical house pushing things to this level of IQ is Leica with the 21mm and 24mm 1.4 Summilux Ms, and the 50mm 1.4 Aspheric. They are of course considerably more expensive and as of yet not mountable on Epic. Pics to come shortly...

[Julio Quintana]

I really wish RED would deliver basically just a focus knob that we can mount on a handle or rod. I love the Redmote Pro for a 1st AC pulling focus, but there have been plenty of times where I've pulled my own focus and would much prefer 'just a focus knob' on the operator side of the camera.

We haven't seen or heard anything about the Redmote Pro in a long time. Why are people assuming that it will actually make for a good follow focus on still glass? Are the electronic focus controls on still lenses smooth enough to make this a viable solution? I've never worked with the Birger mount so I don't have any basis for comparison.

[Evin Grant]

Yes, when the Birger was working it worked quite well. I also heard from some engineers that in general the Nikon AF-S system had more steps, but that's just hearsay.

[paul engstrom]

Ditto what Evin said. I have a Birger and it works great with L lenses. Very smooth focusing. Focusing knob will be even better if they can add hard stops. I just hope RED has something good available more or less... now. And ideally for Nikon. I'm leaving Canon for Nikon with the Epic.

[Bob Gruen]

I also have a Birger and the L series lenses do focus a lot better than the non-L. I have both the 28mm f/1.8 and the 85mm f/1.8 (both ~$400 mid range lenses) and optically they are really good, but they do not focus as smoothly as my L lenses. The cheaper lenses have around 400~600 discreet focus points while the L series typically have double this. The Birger actually has two different focusing modes that has a noticable difference between the L and non-L lenses. I do not own one but there are posts here in the forum that the 135mm L series prime has major image shift issues - stay away from it. I have used the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS, which works very well.

The attractive thing about having wireless control is obvious, but it is not a perfect solution (of course wireless focusing systems for cine lenses are available). If Red can make autofocus tracking work then Canon stills my find their way into the mainstream, especially if the mounts can be changed out quickly.

Bob

[Tim Whitcomb]

GREAT THREAD!

With all these EPIC and Lenses in the wild. I would be happy to host a shoot out (if I can get help with some expenses) I'll put up the facility and EPIC X (3)
NOT A TECHNICAL SHOOT OUT! But all 3 EPIC's pointing at the same subject with the same focal length same distance etc. Not scientific, but what I wish more people would shoot
when comparing. They all are excellent choices... often it comes down to AESTHETIC preference. (ask Barrett about his love affair with Panchros) now we can see WHY.
I also want to do a GREEN SCREEN KEY comparison of these lenses.

LENSES I WOULD LIKE TO COMPARE
1. RED PRO PRIMES - Indent Studios
2. Illumina S35 - Paul Nordlin (Rental Rate?)
3. Cooke Panchros - Christopher Barret (Rental Rate)
4. UniQoptics Signature Series- ?? (Anyone rent these?)
5. Zeiss Ultra Primes - (I can rent these locally)

2nd Test would be A'C's weighing in on mechanics compared to the benchmark UP's .
We have some crusty A/C'S here in portland that don't sugar coat anything who will give us their opinions.

I again will provide EPIC and my Facility and RPP and UPP. Can anyone help with the other rentals?

Let's do this thing... I can also provide a couple Skype cams set up if people want phone in during the "Tests"

Real World shooting Tests. How does this lens compare to the other shooting the SAME subject.

I Dont always check PM so email is best tfw(at)indentstudios(dot)com

[Fred Salaff]

FJS International will contribute $100 to this great idea and effort by Tim.

[paul engstrom]

Hey Tim,

Inspired Cinema here in Vancouver have a couple sets of the Uniq Optics. Contact Richard Metzger.

[Paul Nordin]

Interesting idea Tim. I would be happy to come up there with my Illuminas and participate.

Two months ago I shot a very similar test with my Epic a friend's Alexa, my Illuminas and his Ultraprimes. Kept cameras as close to each other as possible same focal lengths and rotated lenses as we shot a basic low light scene. Right after I got crazy busy so we haven't written up the results yet, but will later this month.

[Illya Friedman]

Hi Tim,

I didn't see Zeiss CP lenses, or Schneider Cine-Xenars on your list, but if you were interested I could possibly facilitate those lenses for your test as well.

Let me know.

I.

[Christopher Barrett]

That sounds like fun... I could go to Portland for a day or two. When?

[SeanBrown]

I would be down to tell ya what I think.. Let me know.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Sounds great guys! I am not good at multiple quotes... so here goes.

@ Paul Nordlin - awesome! I can pay for your hotel (perhaps Fred can kick in airfare or gas $ its only 11 hour drive from SF)
@ Fred - sounds great - maybe help PauL Nordlin with Airfare?
@ Christopher Barrett _ whenever Paul can bring his Illuminas as they are the only ones I know of in US - I can pay your hotel
@ Ilya - thanks for the email. CP2 and Schneider Cine Xenars would be welcome to the party. (I think I can have a 3rd and maybe 4th EPIC there)
@ Paul Engstrom - awesome will do. I will pay shipping both ways.

@ Sean Brown. definitely can use your help. I will have a couple local DP A/C's there as well. You want to help coordinate all this?

We can build a couple "sets" on the stage and then do some exterior stuff on our roof as we have a decent view of the west hills and downtown - so lots of DETAIL - although it will most likely have a big giant silk in the sky called rain clouds.

my email is tfw (at) indentstudios (com)

MEW LIST OF LENSES
1. RED PRO PRIMES - Indent Studios
2. Illumina S35 - Paul Nordlin
3. Cooke Panchros - Christopher Barret
4. UniQoptics Signature Series- ?? (Found Em)
5. Zeiss Ultra Primes - (I can rent these locally)
6. Zeis CP 2 Primes
7. Schneider Cine-Xenars

I almost want to take the UP's off the list... but as the benchmark - lets keep them (presuming for this test that master primes and Leicas being in another class)

EDIT: Now all we need is Rick Darge to show up with his K35's!

EDIT AGAIN: I would also appreciate trading airfare and hotel digs in exchange for rental - as this is on my dime and for the greater good!

Im thinking right after Thanksgiving maybe? Before 10th of Dec.

[Fred Salaff]

I will do what you suggest, Tim. This sounds like a mini summit what a great event this could be.

[Christopher Barrett]

No need for rental, Tim. I can bring Epic too.

CB

[Tim Whitcomb]

Fantastic Chris. That will give us 4 to 5 EPIC's then... I wiil still get your airfare and hotel digs.

Now the unenviable job of finding a time that works for everyone. :)

We are pretty slow from now until until late December - then things get crazy busy as Indie Season in Portland begins. So it has to be sooner than later.

Let me get with Paul Nordlin and see what works. Im thinking over a weekend? Thoughts?

[paul engstrom]

Hey Tim, contact Pieter Stathis here in Vancouver and on REDuser. He's got a nice set of K35s -- the set that has the 50mm rather than the 55mm.

I might be able to drive down with the lenses if the weekend works out...

P

[Christopher Barrett]

Weekends are cool, but I'm booked Dec 3,4. I can probably get there on Mileage too.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Ok, so how about the 10th - 11th? Im in LA the 12 -14th and then we are all but toast with Holiday.

Paul Nordstrom, does the 10th weekend work?

[Tim Whitcomb]

Hey Tim, contact Pieter Stathis here in Vancouver and on REDuser. He's got a nice set of K35s -- the set that has the 50mm rather than the 55mm.

I might be able to drive down with the lenses if the weekend works out...

P

Cool, got tons of response locally too. So we will have lots of help.
Im thinking Dec 10th (Sat) weekend is ideal for me as Im in LA for a Mix Dec 12 to 14th... and then its the holidays.

I will gladly pay hotel and gas expenses if you can come!

thinking people arrive Friday or Sat eve and we shoot Sat and or Sun or BOTH -

Really need to hear from paul N and Christopher B as they want to come up to Portland as well and Id love to have all these lenses.

MINI STAGED "SETS"
1. Human Models for Skin Tones in Tungsten
2. Human Models for Skin Tones HMI
3. Lots of Silver and Chrome pieces - Tungsten and HMI
4. Green Screen VFX Key test Tungsten and HMI
5. Some bright Colored various items and candles under
a. Tungsten
b. LED
c. Flouro
d. HMI

6. Flare Testing - Bokeh Testing under Tungsten and HMI Candles, Flames, Bright Lights. Lasers (JK!)

7. Exterior Roof -
a. City Scape available light of Every Focal Length of each lens in the sets.
b. Night Shots of same if there is time and people are game

[SeanBrown]

Hey Tim, Lets talk Friday when I am up I would love to help you with this.

[Paul Nordin]

Tim, I'm good for that weekend. I'll bring my Illuminas and may bring my Epic-m as well. I have to figure out if I can take the time to drive there or need to fly. If you have a place for me to crash, that would be great. We should push into the wide-open shots too with not just flames and such, but low-light sets or night exteriors. And as much as possible, try to keep the lenses un-filtereed/NDed.

Cheers,
Paul

[Christopher Barrett]

Plans in the works. Making a little getaway for the family. We'll fly in Friday evening and fly out Monday. I'll bring Panchros, Epic-M, Canon mount too... Though my only glass are the tilt/shifts.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Plans in the works. Making a little getaway for the family. We'll fly in Friday evening and fly out Monday. I'll bring Panchros, Epic-M, Canon mount too... Though my only glass are the tilt/shifts.

Awesome, thanks Christoper! I didnt see this before I responded PM. Right now Saturday only... especially with it looking like we will have an EPIC for every set of lenses. That will speed things up. as theycan rotate from set to set. Thats the plan now anyway.

Paul Nordln, if you can make the 10th... we should have all the lens sets we need. AWESOME

[Emmanuel Suys]

...
MEW LIST OF LENSES
1. RED PRO PRIMES - Indent Studios
2. Illumina S35 - Paul Nordlin
3. Cooke Panchros - Christopher Barret
4. UniQoptics Signature Series- ?? (Found Em)
5. Zeiss Ultra Primes - (I can rent these locally)
6. Zeis CP 2 Primes
7. Schneider Cine-Xenars
...


Accidentally came across this thread whilst doing some research on the Schneider Xenar Primes. First this test looks like a great initiative, thumbs up. Wish I could be across the pond and assist during such a test. Assisted on a similar test when the first batch of Red One were delivered at Ludwig Kameraverleih here in Munich a long time ago. At the time an extensive lens test, Zeiss HS -Old Panchros-MP and many more, was conducted not only to find out what kind of look the Red One was capable of but also to check the usability/compatibilty of certain lens-accessories-camera combinations. Sorry for dropping in, so to speak, but I would be very interested in how some of the lenses, listed for testing, behave from a mechanical/practical point of view. This was mentioned at some point, and as focus puller/1st AC this is a big concern. Also if the Schneider Kreuznach Xenar are still planned, hopefully they are the MK II, apparently an improved version of the ones of poor manufacturing quality a lot of people seemed to complain about. Looking forward to the results. Have fun. :thumbsup: Cheers Manny

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks emmanuel- I started a new thread for the LENS test here so people can follow up on the results.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?67463-DEC-10-LENS-SHOOTOUT&p=879352&posted=1#post879352

[Christopher Barrett]

Dude.. are we getting the Schneiders? I really wanted to go with those lenses initially. I'd be psyched to compare them to my Cookes!

[Tim Whitcomb]

Looks like it! - got lots of local support / the tests are gonna be sick fun!!

[Gary Jones]

It would appear that you are only testing primes (and it looks like a great group of the more affordable sets you have there). I would just like to ask you to test some of the zooms as well (especially some of the more affordable once - Red, Optimo DP, Aluras etc). Tests of this size and quality are rare and it would be a great opportunity to see what compromises one makes when picking some of the zooms.

Personally, I am especially interested in the 2 Optimo DPs which appear to get good reviews, but it would be nice to have them included in such a comprehensive test. If I only did narrative, I would definitely be in the market for a set of primes, but I like to do other projects as well. My skill set is not 'there' yet, so I can't justify charging the amount needed that would cover the costs of hiring good lenses on top.

I understand if it isn't going to be practical, but I thought it was worth a plea.

Thanks either way,

Gary