RED Scarlet in Live Production environment

[James Kallemeyn]

Hi everyone,

First time poster, so big apologies for noob questions...
Im a video director a church that is looking to upgrade from a SD, 4x3, analog environment. We shoot on a mix of Sony DXC-D30s and 570s on Canon glass. We have two campuses with 3 primary cameras on each side. We have actually gone SDI everywhere (cabling, switcher, etc), with the capability to go HD-SDI. We use a variety of converters to convert our analog technology to SDI/HD-SDI. Our next upgrade will be cameras and projector.

With the release of the Scarlet, 2/3" camera body, I'm wondering if this would be a viable option for those of us in a studio configuration/live production environment. One challenge here is Camera Control. Does anyone know if the RedMote will have iris control? Would it be able to control Canon 2/3" B4 ENG lenses? Could this RedMote be hardwired to extend its distance up to 150'? Is this even viable as a typical Camera Control Unit? My best guess is that this would require some kind of custom cable - or even a infrared extender. But would this lead to interference across 3 different cameras?? We would just need to be able to shade them from our control room

Another subtler issue is interlacing - right now we are fairly used to the interlaced live TV look, and from what i've read the Scarlet won't do 1080i. I like progressive as much as the next guy, but for live production, should we consider a higher framerate with 720p at 60fps?

Besides the price point, there seem to be other major advantages of using the RED Scarlets in this environment. We have yet to do extensive testing with our existing lenses, but we would love to be able to use them with the new camera bodies. I know they aren't HD rated lenses but I've heard they can be serviceable :) We could potentially be able to keep our existing lenses and focus/zoom controls.

By the time the cameras are outfitted with HD monitor, RedMote, etc. it still seems like it would be under 10K a pop to make a huge upgrade to our cameras.

Any insights are greatly appreciated:)

Thanks

Jim Kallemeyn
Woodmen Valley Chapel
Colorado Springs, CO

[Andrew Gentle]

I don't know the answers to all of your questions and I don't think anyone will for another few months.


Does anyone know if the RedMote will have iris control? Would it be able to control Canon 2/3" B4 ENG lenses?

The REDMOTE can control the iris. It's likely that Scarlet will support B4 lens control but this isn't a certainty.


Could this RedMote be hardwired to extend its distance up to 150'? Is this even viable as a typical Camera Control Unit? My best guess is that this would require some kind of custom cable - or even a infrared extender. But would this lead to interference across 3 different cameras?? We would just need to be able to shade them from our control room

The REDMOTEs use a proprietary RF communication protocol called REDLink so extension via infra red would be impossible. RED have considered creating an 'umbilical cord' system which could allow modules including the REDMOTE to be placed away from the camera. Nobody knows if this will happen or how long the cable runs will be yet but I'm sure a solution will be produced eventually.


Another subtler issue is interlacing - right now we are fairly used to the interlaced live TV look, and from what i've read the Scarlet won't do 1080i. I like progressive as much as the next guy, but for live production, should we consider a higher framerate with 720p at 60fps?

No reason to go 720p, the clean HDMI output should be able to do 1080/60p with no problems.

I hope this is helpful!

-Andrew

[Albert C Martin]

Hi there James,

I am the video director at Church by the Glades in Coral Springs FL. We are currently in the midst of building a new auditorium on our main campus and will be making the move from SD in our current building to HD with entirely new infrastructure in the new building.

I've been looking at RED for quite awhile and researching the best way to blend the cinema-style shooting with a traditional ENG setup where an operator (and in our cases a volunteer) is sitting behind the camera on a tripod. I feel we've come up with a good approach and have designed our entire systems around these cameras. I thought I'd pop in here and share some thoughts.

The first thing to consider is that with the Epic and Scarlet (as far as we know) the HD-SDI output is a 3Gbps signal. Most inexpensive routers/switchers/etc. will only support 1.5Gbps signals which means you'll either need to get downconverters (like the Harris X50-3G) or you'll need to make sure your entire infrastructure is build on 3G equipment. The latter is more expensive but in the long run should be better than relying on converters.

As far as lens control goes, we still don't know if the RedMote PRO will control B4 lenses. Since we will be using Epics in our building, we are buying cinema zooms (Angenieux Optimo 24-290) as well as Heden lens motors and using Bartech equipment to control them. With some custom cables (from Bartech) we are able to use broadcast servo focus and zoom controls (Fujinon SRD-92B and FSD-11) connected to the Bartech gear and running the lens motors. The iris control from Bartech can be run wired, which we are connecting from the camera all the way to the back room where we can do remote shading. We'll be using the non-PRO RedMote to control other parts of the camera such as ISO, colour balancing, etc. I seem to recall the specs for the RedMote state they will also run wired via Ethernet but I don't seem to have the link to that page handy.

Another thing you'll need to consider are tally and return video if these are important to you. Right now we're just running an HD-SDI feed from the switcher to each camera with a SmallHD monitor for return video. As far as tally, I believe we are having them custom built.

A cool feature that we've only scratched the surface of in our testing is the ability to upload custom "looks" to the camera. This means you can theoretically shoot a test chart on your stage, take the R3D file back into RedCineX and make several look styles and export them back to the camera. Now you can change the entire look of the camera at will during your live production. This is a particularly exciting possibility.

Hope some of this is useful ... let me know if I can be of any further help!

Albert

[Albert C Martin]

Here's some test footage we shot when testing out gear for the new building. We are using our Red One (non-MX) along with Heden and Loon motors and Bartech controllers on an Angenieux Optimo 24-290 zoom. We didn't have the broadcast servo controls for this test and were just using the wired thumbwheel from Bartech for focus and a Libec ZC-9Pro for zoom. Iris was run via the wireless focus module from Bartech (sitting in the lap of the operator)

Everything ran remarkably well for the test. The wired thumbwheel for focus was extremely touchy, but that's because its so small. Even with that, after one or two services you got used to it. With a proper broadcast servo control (Fujinon FSD-11) there shouldn't be any issues whatsoever.

Fast forward to about 2:30 in the video for the start of the live footage.

http://www.cbglades.tv/index.php?series=11&video=41

[James Kallemeyn]

Thanks everybody for the replies and pics!
Indeed, the switchers we upgraded to last year only support a 1.5gbps signal, so we would need to throw some converters in there to make it work :(
Tally and return video are important to us, but we would build a custom tally and I think we would also do something similar to what Albert suggested...

We've been looking at the JVC GY-HM790Us in their Studio setup, it seems to have most of what we need...but its really tempting to hold off and see what the Scarlets are capable of once released. Hoping to see more at this year's NAB!