Angenieux Rouge [Archive]

KETCH ROSSi

02-01-2011, 07:28 AM

Peter,

both the 16-42 and 30-80 are great zooms, but even so we have not tested them on Epic as of yet,
I don't think that they will cover the full 5k.

They are sharp and contrasty, but not as god as the Optimo 17-80, which really is as god as the Optimo 24-90,
but this last does not cover 5k at the wide end.

As far as comparing to Primes, well, they don't.

But I'm also sure that if you were to film a Scene with a set of Primes and the Angenioux Zooms set at
same aperture and Focal, there would be very few if any in the Audience that could ever notice a difference.

Off course Zooms vs. Primes, is not only a matter of Focus, Aperture and Sharpness, but it is a also a matter of
Rendering of the Bokeh at the same apertures, depending on the number of Blades and shape of the Iris,
how well they resolve the Image, and the Contrast they give, and even so much can be done in post, some things can not.

I prefer Primes, and for this we finally decided to add a Set of Master Primes to the Red Pro Primes, but also have
the RPZ 17-50 and RPZ 18-85, and love them, but never replace Primes.

Tom.Wong

02-01-2011, 07:54 AM

Image coverage on the rouge lenses are

31.1 mm

it should cover full 5k i believe. I've heard nothing but good things about the rouge lenses and from what I've seen I agree, razor sharp, great build, light, and great color matching, with that classic angenioux look.

of course primes always have their advantages but that's not the discussion. I think the rouge lenses are probably some of the finest zooms ever made when you look at the price, size, weight, and optical quality. for 23kish a pop, I think it's a steal.

Lewis-M Soucy

02-01-2011, 07:56 AM

Hi Peter,

I used them and they are really nice... The upside is they are not too big or heavy for a zoom, the downside is they are HD lenses so you won't be able to use them with film should you need to...

Ketch is right, not sure how they'll handle the 5K... Already, my MB-20 vignettes in 4,5K with the Red 18-50mm zoom...

Carlos Gonzalez

02-01-2011, 09:24 AM

I own both the 16-42mm and 30-80mm Rouges and they are great lenses. We also own the 17-80mm and the 24-290mm and we intercut them all the time and you can't tell the difference. I bought them to use with Steadycam and also for a lightweight package which I complemented with an LMB-5, a 2060 head and medium duty Ronford-Bakers. I couldn't be happier.

My understanding is that they will cover 5K.

KETCH ROSSi

02-01-2011, 10:27 AM

Carlos we know for sure that the 24-290 does not cover 5k at the wide end, just not sure with the rouge.

MIKE TESTIN

02-01-2011, 12:04 PM

I'm almost positive they cover 5k and have at least if not more coverage than the 17-80.

Eric Ulbrich

02-01-2011, 12:22 PM

Hey Guys,
Just put my order in for a set today. Super excited to get them, Ive used them before and they are great handheld zooms which will work with not only EPIC but the new af100 and sony F3. In regards to 5K I believe Mark has clarified this...

Both Optimo DPs - 16-42mm and 30-80mm fully cover 5K on EPIC.

Excellent glass - fast ROI - HIGHLY recommend.

KETCH ROSSi

02-01-2011, 12:30 PM

Great, they do cover 5k, so its the 24-290 that does not cover it and in need of an adaptor ;)

hdcrew

02-01-2011, 12:38 PM

After much deliberation I went for the 30-80mm and it's turned out to be a fantastic lens, I'm using it on my RED and my Alexa and it produces great images on both.

It intercuts with the Ultra's and masters that I regularly hire for bigger jobs.

I will be purchasing the 16-42mm soon.

Nick

http://web.me.com/nickbennett/Nick_Bennett_Cinematographer/Reel.html

Tom.Wong

02-01-2011, 01:52 PM

Great, they do cover 5k, so its the 24-290 that does not cover it and in need of an adaptor ;)

pretty much all the other optimos will need that adapter. I think when the made the rouge, they had 5k in the back of their heads :)

generally most of your modern day lenses, especially made in the past 10 years will cover 5k, or a upwards super 35 mm. but it's always good to check, since Epic has the largest s35 size sensor on the market....

Fredrik Harreschou

02-01-2011, 03:04 PM

We have both of the Rouge lenses in our rental department. They are superb. To the OP, you will not regret to get these lenses.

paul engstrom

02-01-2011, 03:04 PM

KETCH ROSSi

02-01-2011, 03:12 PM

Rouge 30-80 always covered 5k.

First version of 16-42 came out before 5k was announced; it doesn't cover 5k. Second version (the current version) was redesigned to cover 5k.

You can get matched sets from the factory for 3d. Apparently perfect lenses for 3d.

Regards,
Paul

Good to know on the 16-42, differences in the new version, so that some one does not make the wrong purchase if buying used ;)

As far as been able to order matched sets for 3D,

we now are faced with spending some do time with Arri, and hopefully Red to get two sets of Master Primes and
two sets of Red Pro Primes Matched, so ahving Angenioux offer this form factory its totally Cool, Cudos to them ;)

paul engstrom

02-01-2011, 04:16 PM

Good to know on the 16-42, differences in the new version, so that some one does not make the wrong purchase if buying used ;)

As far as been able to order matched sets for 3D,

we now are faced with spending some do time with Arri, and hopefully Red to get two sets of Master Primes and
two sets of Red Pro Primes Matched, so ahving Angenioux offer this form factory its totally Cool, Cudos to them ;)

Yes indeed--forward thinking on their part re: 3d usage!

Should be noted: the 5k sensor is a bigger sensor than we're used to which means lenses will feel wider than we're used -- because indeed, we're seeing a larger field of view than before. With this rouge's this means the 16 will be give a fov similar to 14 or 15 on a RED1 (which is great!) while the 80 will feel something like 75 on a RED1, (which is not great). This means some users may feel like they're lacking sufficient focal length on the long end with this 2 lens setup. A 30-90 or 35-100 would have been more helpful in 5k land.

Regards,
Paul

AnthonyFlores

02-01-2011, 04:28 PM

I can't wait to see Mark's tests with them! Heard nothing but good things ...

On a more trivial note, I hate the bright red stripe ... but I think Evan said you can special order with blue or black instead. I'm thinking black, even if I have to pay a few bucks extra. That would look sweet on the Epic :)

Tom.Wong

02-01-2011, 05:25 PM

Yes indeed--forward thinking on their part re: 3d usage!

Should be noted: the 5k sensor is a bigger sensor than we're used to which means lenses will feel wider than we're used -- because indeed, we're seeing a larger field of view than before. With this rouge's this means the 16 will be give a fov similar to 14 or 15 on a RED1 (which is great!) while the 80 will feel something like 75 on a RED1, (which is not great). This means some users may feel like they're lacking sufficient focal length on the long end with this 2 lens setup. A 30-90 or 35-100 would have been more helpful in 5k land.

Regards,
Paul

if you're shooting 3d, you won't be using your longer focal lengths... if you do, it will be VERY rare.

Tim Duran

02-01-2011, 07:24 PM

Anthony, the red rubber band comes off easily. My box included a blue one for an option--no charge. I like the red. Where this makes a difference is if you have both lenses. It a good way to identify them from each other ie: one red, the other blue or black.

Evin Grant

02-01-2011, 08:37 PM

Here's my 16-42 with the black bands...
http://evingrant.com/pics/1642F7.jpg

They originally cost me $160, but I complained to Angenieux and they credited it back to me. They are beautiful lenses with solid customer service.

Antoine Fabi

02-04-2011, 11:04 AM

Ah! that beautifull Angenieux look :)

Evin,

could you post a couple of frame grabs taken with these lenses ?

Antoine

KETCH ROSSi

02-04-2011, 12:52 PM

Nice Evin,

yeah if we go for the two sets of 16-42 & 30-80's will be definitely with the Black bands ;)

Eric Ulbrich

02-04-2011, 02:10 PM

Mine just came in and I got both blue and black bands included. Nice!

C.H.Haskell

02-20-2011, 05:38 PM

Considering these lenses myself, what did you decid on Peter? Any examples of work someone can post or link to on either of these lenses?

Zakaree Sandberg

02-20-2011, 06:34 PM

Carlos we know for sure that the 24-290 does not cover 5k at the wide end, just not sure with the rouge.

Looks like 5k is really not going to be the leg up winner in the dog fight.

I dont think people are going to stop using proven cine lenses just to cover a larger resolution..

but shooting high speed at 4k is the entire reason i believe epic has its value..
and of course the higher data rate (less compression)

Mark L. Pederson

02-20-2011, 06:38 PM

Looks like 5k is really not going to be the leg up winner in the dog fight.

I dont think people are going to stop using proven cine lenses just to cover a larger resolution..

but shooting high speed at 4k is the entire reason i believe epic has its value..
and of course the higher data rate (less compression)

Wrong.

Rouge 16-42 + 30-80 = full coverage
Optimo 15-40mm = full coverage
Ultra Primes = full coverage
Master Primes = full coverage

adapter coming from Ang. that will allow full coverage on Optimo 24-290, 17-80 + 28-76 in 5K FF.

Only looser in the 5K world IMO is Cooke S4s. Too much barrel distortion and too soft unless you crop to 4K.

C.H.Haskell

02-20-2011, 07:41 PM

Mark, Can that be said about the panchros in terms of barrel distortion in 5k or no?

AnthonyFlores

02-20-2011, 07:45 PM

Mark, Can that be said about the panchros in terms of barrel distortion in 5k or no?

Also, from what I've read and when I asked ZGC they told me the 5i's covered the S35 image circle. Since both the 5i's and Panchros are newer than the S4's I wonder if they are not better suited for a more modern camera like the Epic.

dino g

02-20-2011, 07:48 PM

Wrong.

Rouge 16-42 + 30-80 = full 5K FF coverage
Optimo 15-40mm = full 5K FF coverage
Ultra Primes = full 5K FF coverage
Master Primes = full 4K FF coverage

adapter coming from Ang. that will allow full coverage on Optimo 24-290, 17-80 + 28-76 in 5K FF.

Only looser in the 5K world IMO is Cooke S4s. Too much barrel distortion and too soft unless you crop to 4K.

Second this post. But would like to add that the s5's are from what I have heard not going to cover either.

Tim Duran

02-20-2011, 10:54 PM

Ryan Patrick O'Hara

02-20-2011, 11:26 PM

Second this post. But would like to add that the s5's are from what I have heard not going to cover either.

Not sure about 5i's but new Panchro/i's do. :)

Mark L. Pederson

02-21-2011, 03:13 AM

Mark, you post is confusing. What are to referring to when you say "full coverage?" Prior threads discussed 4k and 5k. If you are saying 5k, then you may want to revisit the Duclos charts and related comments regarding Optimo coverage, which is S35, not 5K. If you have other information, I would love to hear about it.

Sorry Tim - I should have said "full 5K FF coverage"

** It should be noted that on the Rouge 16-42 + 30-80 - the design was updated for 5K coverage at some point. I'm not sure what date that took effect, but if you have an early Rouge(s) - (like we did) - they have to be upgraded to 5K compatibility by Angenieux. If you own these lenses and are not sure if yours are "5K compatible" - contact Angenieux. All new Rouge 16-42 + 30-80 that ship now (and for a while now) have the 5K compatible upgraded design.

Sanjin Jukic

02-21-2011, 03:45 AM

From Angenieux Optimo DP 16-42mm & Optimo DP 30-80mm Data Sheet catalogues:

http://www.angenieux.com/image/cinema/produits/16-428_v2.jpg
Angenieux Optimo DP 16-42mm.

Angenieux Optimo DP 16-42mm image coverage: S35 5K (32mm diagonal) PDF >>> (http://www.angenieux.com/file/datasheets/cinema/2011catalogue1642.pdf)

http://www.angenieux.com/image/cinema/produits/30-80.jpg
Angenieux Optimo DP 30-80mm.

Angenieux Optimo DP 30-80mm image coverage: S35 5K (32mm diagonal) PDF >>> (http://www.angenieux.com/file/datasheets/cinema/2011catalogue3080.pdf)

AnthonyFlores

02-21-2011, 05:55 AM

I agree with others here ... amazing how much better the black bands look on the Optimos, a very sexy combination when combined with the Epic and can't wait to get my first set. For 99% of my work right now, the Rouge set will perfectly cover my needs. I don't need super fast ... yet. 2.8 will be fine for a while -- though if I absolutely need primes, I may get a set of RPP's while I raise the necessary funds (and patiently wait) for the Leica C's sometime in 2012.

Out of curiosity -- where is the best place to order them? Lead times? I'm probably about 2-3 months away (waiting for Stage 3 to get closer) but I'm starting to plan and budget now.

I know they are sold at B&H ... also Abel carries them. But for best service, price, etc just curious -- especially since it seems like you (Evan) ordered them directly from Angenieux.

Thanks for the help guys :)

Anthony

C.H.Haskell

02-21-2011, 06:58 AM

If your out of state Anthony you will save on Tax from BH. Also give Abel a call and see what deal they can give you. Good luck!

AnthonyFlores

02-21-2011, 07:33 AM

If your out of state Anthony you will save on Tax from BH. Also give Abel a call and see what deal they can give you. Good luck!

Thanks CH. Yah the tax savings from BH is nice since I'm based out of California (though in the Carribean now) -- but BH service is not all that personal.

I will check Abel, there's a slight tax for being in Cali -- which is discounted due to being a professional -- but I have a feeling they would at least match the final price from BH. I will check with them.

Where did everyone else get theirs?

Tim Duran

02-21-2011, 10:10 AM

Anthony, the price ranges on these lenses in very narrow. I bought my first Rouge via one of the well known used glass dealers who got me a one time deal on a NEW lens. No cc, no tax @$19,000. I had to promise not to give out his name. I got a very good deal from Abel on my second, but that included $20,000+ of additional equipment. No tax, no cc.

NOTE: Angenieux's prices change with the euro/dollar situation. If you think dollar is going down, try to lock in a price today with a lay away plan.

Tim Duran

02-21-2011, 10:39 AM

Sanjin, I would love to say you're right, but your comment is not in line with Duclos's charts nor what I've heard from Angenieux. There is confusion between "5k" and "Epic". Rightly or wrongly, most people equate Epic with 5k. Epic per the chart is 33.5+mm. S35 is 32. And 4k is 29mm.

It is my understanding that Angenieux is rejiggering their line to allow for Epic needs. That's why I'm waiting for NAB to see what's news, if anything, before I buy a 24-290.

John Brawley

02-21-2011, 12:23 PM

Anybody have any recent feedback about the 2 Rouge zooms?
How they compare to other zooms and/or primes?

Just looking for some lenses for personal use and I am tired of changing my PL mount to a Nikon mount over and over again.....

Peter

Hi Peter.

We use a pair of both as our workhorse lenses on an episodic TV drama I'm shooting. I love them for being smaller and lighter whilst still being reasonably fast.

The only downside I've found with them is that they aren't very flat when you're wide open and at the wider end of the lenses. At T2.8 on the 16-42, you'll find almost a 2 stop drop off on the corners. Digital cameras also tend to show up the field flatness a lot more.

This evens out by the time you're at T5.6, but shooting interiors is where I notice it the most, especially panning through a wall on a wider lens.

Otherwise they are visually great. Sharp and easy on the focus pullers.
jb

AnthonyFlores

02-21-2011, 09:15 PM

Hi Peter.

We use a pair of both as our workhorse lenses on an episodic TV drama I'm shooting. I love them for being smaller and lighter whilst still being reasonably fast.

The only downside I've found with them is that they aren't very flat when you're wide open and at the wider end of the lenses. At T2.8 on the 16-42, you'll find almost a 2 stop drop off on the corners. Digital cameras also tend to show up the field flatness a lot more.

This evens out by the time you're at T5.6, but shooting interiors is where I notice it the most, especially panning through a wall on a wider lens.

Otherwise they are visually great. Sharp and easy on the focus pullers.
jb

This is a bit concerning John, and something I haven't heard before. I would like to be able to use them on the Epic, wide open ... are you saying the edges of the frame get distorted when you're using them on the wide end?

Anyone else have this issue? From everything others have posted, the lenses act in many ways like slightly slower primes -- extremely sharp and excellent overall across the full range of the zoom and apertures.

Evin Grant

02-21-2011, 09:25 PM

I bought mine from Joe at Abel Burbank.

C.H.Haskell

02-21-2011, 10:07 PM

This is a bit concerning John, and something I haven't heard before. I would like to be able to use them on the Epic, wide open ... are you saying the edges of the frame get distorted when you're using them on the wide end?

Anyone else have this issue? From everything others have posted, the lenses act in many ways like slightly slower primes -- extremely sharp and excellent overall across the full range of the zoom and apertures.

1st time I am hearing this as well. I have heard that they ramp a little on the long end and a little distortion is expected on the wide. Will test soon.

Tom.Wong

02-22-2011, 08:01 AM

This is a bit concerning John, and something I haven't heard before. I would like to be able to use them on the Epic, wide open ... are you saying the edges of the frame get distorted when you're using them on the wide end?

Anyone else have this issue? From everything others have posted, the lenses act in many ways like slightly slower primes -- extremely sharp and excellent overall across the full range of the zoom and apertures.

it really isn't THAT much to be concerned about. these are inherent problems with zoom lenses in general. that's why the rouge lenses are priced so well, the sacrifice had to be somewhere. great optics, little bit of ramping and falloff. you can't blame it for what you are paying. it's the best zoom for the price period. there is no arguing that, but they aren't perfect.

Evin Grant

02-22-2011, 09:41 AM

Most primes show falloff at the edges of their image circle too. The only exception might be Master primes or the new Leicas. I'll have some updated info soon.

John Brawley

02-22-2011, 12:13 PM

This is a bit concerning John, and something I haven't heard before. I would like to be able to use them on the Epic, wide open ... are you saying the edges of the frame get distorted when you're using them on the wide end?

Anyone else have this issue? From everything others have posted, the lenses act in many ways like slightly slower primes -- extremely sharp and excellent overall across the full range of the zoom and apertures.

It's very obvious once you put it on the camera and point it at a flat field. I'll try and take a screenshot today.

Most zooms have a similar issue. The 25-250HR is also very pronounced.

It's particularily pronounced though on the rouge, especially the wider 16-42.

I'm not knocking them. But the OP was asking about them and it's worth noting the downsides as well as the upsides.

jb

John Brawley

02-22-2011, 12:16 PM

1st time I am hearing this as well. I have heard that they ramp a little on the long end and a little distortion is expected on the wide. Will test soon.

As I've said, it's very obvious when you use them. They even out by the time you're at T5.6. I've actually found that they do hold on to the very end of their zoom range really well, and better than most. There has to be a compromise somewhere. The lens is small, fast and cheap....all things considered, it's still a great lens.

jb

C.H.Haskell

02-22-2011, 12:22 PM

AnthonyFlores

02-22-2011, 03:28 PM

For what ever its worth they are in high demand around here...(NYC) and according to offhollywood they go out on every 3D shoot. A matched pair is something to consider if your going in that direction. Personally I am still stuck between a pair of these (16-42/30-80) or panchros. Waiting for NAB and will try and test and share more info soon.

Me too dude, same dilemma here. Was also strongly considering getting some Leica S lenses as my mainstay but the fact that there's only 35, 70, 120, 180 is just a bit limiting right now. And I don't have much faith that Leica will quickly release the additional focal lengths anytime soon.

Anyways, I will still get them someday, but like Ketch I'm going to wait until Leica fills out the lens line a bit more. Also, rental value on these is kinda iffy since they are not true cine lenses.

I've kinda come to the conclusion that the best path for me is to get Optimos in the near future, with my Epic ... fantastic quality, high demand, fast ROI on rentals. This thread is literally the first knock I've ever heard on them. Besides, I trust Mark a TON and he recommended the Optimos over the Panchros, if he were to choose just one way to go.

In terms of primes, what I'll probably do is get on the deposit/waiting list for the Leica C's ... and work on coming up with the funding for them next year. In the meantime, I may get some RPP's to have primes on hand until the Leicas C's are ready in 2012. But as I said in another thread, the Optimos can handle 95% of my workload this year. So I will recoup that investment insanely fast.

Crossing my fingers, hoping I can make all of this happen (Especially the Leicas!). Lenses are one of the funnest parts of being in this business, I LOVE THEM :)

Anthony

John Brawley

02-22-2011, 03:28 PM

jonnycom

02-22-2011, 09:28 PM

We love the Optimos and have no complaints. we have 20 of them so far with more coming. on the matched 3D sets we send out one red and one blue, which is nice for 3d stuff... But I like the black ones, they seem a little sharper.....

They both work great on the 5k Epic.

C.H.Haskell

02-22-2011, 09:46 PM

Thanks for sharing Jonny, Nice case in the 1st pic, where did you get that?

jonnycom

02-22-2011, 10:07 PM

We got that one from Angenleux, the only thing I don't like about it is that it has wheels which might encourage someone to wheel it around.

Ned Wilson

02-22-2011, 10:09 PM

it really isn't THAT much to be concerned about. these are inherent problems with zoom lenses in general. that's why the rouge lenses are priced so well, the sacrifice had to be somewhere. great optics, little bit of ramping and falloff. you can't blame it for what you are paying. it's the best zoom for the price period. there is no arguing that, but they aren't perfect.

Tom, that's a total deal breaker for me. I shoot alot of 2:35 these days and frame way out to the ends. Significant fall off is not pretty for this kind of shooting. I think this thread put it in perspective:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55089&page=6

Perhaps the problem lies with these zooms is that they were never conceived in their early design for 4.5 k plus like RPP's.

John Brawley

02-23-2011, 02:28 AM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawley/5470831886/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawley/5470831886/

Taken today. 30-80 at T2.8

JB

Evin Grant

02-23-2011, 09:29 PM

Frank_L

02-23-2011, 10:19 PM

If you could only afford 1 rouge dp, which would it be for starters, the 16-42 or 30-80mm? Thanks.

Cüneyt Kaya

02-24-2011, 02:49 AM

If you could only afford 1 rouge dp, which would it be for starters, the 16-42 or 30-80mm? Thanks.

16-42 zoom......for handheld, steadycam, etc.

Frank_L

02-24-2011, 03:23 AM

Can't you just use a prime for steadicam or handheld? I mean in terms of value wouldn't more value come from the 30-80mm as it covers more focal lengths, and just use a prime for wide?

Evin Grant

02-24-2011, 08:31 AM

+1 for the 16-42, my most used primes are 20, 28 and 40mm so the 16-40 is a no brainer, but to each his own.

C.H.Haskell

02-24-2011, 08:43 AM

The 1st feature to use the Rouge lens pair was "Cyrus" with John C Reilly, shot on RED. If you know any other music videos or projects shot with them, please share a link. Cheers.
http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/fox_searchlight/cyrus/

John Brawley

02-24-2011, 12:44 PM

John, how were you lighting that test? I don't doubt you but after trying many different techniques I found a piece of white plexi over the front element back-lit by a soft source seemed to give the most even field of illumination and really accurately displayed the falloff. Also the amount of falloff can be exaggerated by the curve in redspace, so you really need to open an R3D in redcine and check it out there. My guess is it's actually 2/3 to a 1/2 stop in the RAW.

HI Evin.

That shot was simply pointing at bounced diffuse daylight bouncing into the roof of the location I was at.

If it was video I could pan it and you'd see it moving across the roof.

I don't really have time to set up a test to show it.

I found that it was more like 1 -1.5 stops when I tested it last season.

I'm interested you would say that the "curve" would make flatness of field appear worse. How so ?

jb

Harry Clark

02-24-2011, 03:40 PM

Too soft unless you crop?
What do you mean? MTF is MTF. The optical low pass filter does not change.
I'm not sure how a lens appears "sharper" if you crop.
I'm sure S4s will look fantastic shooting people's faces, which are what we get paid for. Maybe we can replicate the SALT test with Epic, when yours has some down time... which I'm sure is never ;)
Cheers,
Harry

Wrong.

Rouge 16-42 + 30-80 = full coverage
Optimo 15-40mm = full coverage
Ultra Primes = full coverage
Master Primes = full coverage

adapter coming from Ang. that will allow full coverage on Optimo 24-290, 17-80 + 28-76 in 5K FF.

Only looser in the 5K world IMO is Cooke S4s. Too much barrel distortion and too soft unless you crop to 4K.

jonnycom

02-24-2011, 04:42 PM

Both Optimo's have amazing coverage, almost as much as the Lecia's, I put them up on the projector at Band Pro when I was playing with the Leica's 2 weeks ago and was really impressed with the Optimos.

If you only had 1 I would say get the 16-42, you can always go 3k or 2k if you have to.

I shot some pick up shots of Super8 with our MX and 30-80 and they blended perfectly with the ana 35 film. I'll tell what was shot on Red after the movie comes out.

Evin Grant

02-24-2011, 06:17 PM

I'm interested you would say that the "curve" would make flatness of field appear worse. How so ?
jb

The Redspace curve bumps up the tones in the upper mids (green/gray/pink in the false color) and this accentuates contrast in these tones. It's designed for skin tones but may make a 2:1 ratio look more like 2.5 or 3:1 depending on where on the curve the tone is placed. Since most often this aberration would be seen in the flatter high key shoulder area where the highs are rolled off it will be less apparent. It's very hard to determine the actual falloff without checking it with a flatter curve like Rec709.

John Brawley

02-25-2011, 01:55 AM

The Redspace curve bumps up the tones in the upper mids (green/gray/pink in the false color) and this accentuates contrast in these tones. It's designed for skin tones but may make a 2:1 ratio look more like 2.5 or 3:1 depending on where on the curve the tone is placed. Since most often this aberration would be seen in the flatter high key shoulder area where the highs are rolled off it will be less apparent. It's very hard to determine the actual falloff without checking it with a flatter curve like Rec709.

I find that hard to beleive (that it would cause field flatness to be accentuated more). Surely the *contrast* bump doesn't affect different parts of the image field...it's an across the board adjustrment.

(*EDIT. Even when you change the exposure up and down on the camera, it still shows up. I just set it there to illustrate how obvious it is. I could have easily done the same thing down the lower end of the exposure scale.)

No matter. The lens isn't flat and I was just pointing it out to those that hadn't heard about it with regards to the rouge lenses. Very few lenses are of course, especially zooms.

If it's a half a stop or a stop and half....you'll see it on the day and you'll certainly see it in rushes and in the grade. Most of the time I don't mind. It's a natural vignette. I hate it post when I'm pannig through a frame with large flat fields and it becomes VERY obvious....

jb

Evin Grant

02-25-2011, 03:43 PM

John Brawley

02-25-2011, 06:31 PM

It doesn't accentuate different parts of the frame it just exaggerates the overall contrast of the scene, which can cause a 1 stop fall off to look like it's more that that. That's all.

I'll do a more controlled test when my 30-80 arrives.

Hi Evin...

It's more than a stop, especially on the 16-42 at 16mm. I was simply illustrating in the easiest way for me to do so right now....taking a shot of my lcd screen with false colour up to show that it's not flat. We can argue about how much and people should do their own tests. Let me know what you think it is. I know what it is *for me* from grading hours of finished broadcast drama.

I was surprised when I found the fall-off to be so dramatic. I'd assumed the rouge were of a more tele-centric design which should help reduce this problem...Just to check, I also tested the regular (film) optimos, thinking I would use them instead and found them to be exactly the same....

jb