720P Monitoring not 1080P [Archive]

Chris Reynolds

11-02-2007, 05:04 PM

Hi All

Long time follower, first time poster. (Sorry been a little under the pump for the last year)

As I am currently in the process of building a spilt system for our Red One I am finding it increasing difficult to find hardware such as SDI Converters and capture cards that support the full range of frame rates of 720P. Is Red plaining in the future to have there SDI Preview out at 1080P? Don't get me wrong, the camera absolutely rocks. Just want a flexible split system that supports it.

Cheers, Chris

Sanjin Jukic

11-02-2007, 05:17 PM

RED BUDGET MONITORING:

Get Blackmagic HDLink (http://www.decklink.com/products/hdlink/techspecs/)

and

EIZO FlexScan S1931 19" LCD monitor (http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/s1931_21/index.asp)

that both of that together cost about $/€ 800.

RED Camera>>Video Preview>>1280x720>>HD-SDI out>>HDLINK HD-SDI in>>DVI out>>LCD monitor DVI in.

Chris Reynolds

11-02-2007, 05:32 PM

Thats fine if you are sooting 25fps, 29.97 or 30fps but they are the only 3 supported formats at 720P. What about all the other frame rates the 1080P does support? I am plaining on building the whole system base around SDI. Capture in SDI and output around the set in SDI to all monitors. The 40' Bravia that I am running for agency and client monitor will have the AJA Hi5 on it to convert the HDSDI to HDMI but once again only supports 25, 59.97 of 30fps as does most capture cards.

Cheers, Chris

Stuart English

11-02-2007, 05:39 PM

The other frame rates? Please explain Chris?

Chris Reynolds

11-02-2007, 05:44 PM

M Most

11-02-2007, 05:48 PM

24fps there is no a lot hardware that I am aware of that support 720p 24fps. Even my Sony Grade 1s at work don't support 720P at 25 we have to up-convert to 1080. It is what has always driven me around the bend with the Panisonic format.

It doesn't work because 720p/24 and 25 do not exist as a video format, only as a data format. The only valid video frame rates for 720p are 60 (and its 59.94 variation) and 50.

Chris Reynolds

11-02-2007, 05:54 PM

I understand that. Hence my original question as I am concerned on how to build an SDI split system that will work on set with all frame rates.

Cheers, Chris

Stuart English

11-02-2007, 06:19 PM

Well the way you do that is using 720p / 60 as the transport format, i.e 24 fps capture has 2:3 pulldown added to it and the signal is sent over HD-SDI as 720p/60 fps. (or it can be 720p/59.94 or 720p/50fps for 23.98 and 25.00)

So no you won't find any 720p / 24 HD-SDI equipment, it doesn't exist. The monitor you send the video to, may or may not srip out the pulldown and get you back to a native captire rate display.

Chris Reynolds

11-02-2007, 06:26 PM

Sorry very tired here. I just jumped back on the website and realized that we are all talking about the preview out here and not the 2 x HDSDI (single or dual link). So my question is will these ports be active in the future for live output as you are recording to a CFcard?

Thanks in advance, Chris

RED,BLUE&GREEN

11-02-2007, 08:10 PM

What is the Monitor output for the camera? Both the Preview and the SDI Outputs right. Theses will be 1080p on the next build of the camera right! It would be hard to find a consumer HD camera that doesen't have 1080 output.

As far as the CF cards...let hope soon you won't have to use them except to input/septup the camera.

I think when the camera comes out in the next few months ...it will have both 1080p& 2k output for monitoring and record (duel link) to SR......and a reddrive to capture redcode 2k/4k ....

Stuart English

11-02-2007, 09:20 PM

The HD Preview output runs at 1280 x 720p over HD-SDI, or you can have 1280 x 848 over HDMI. These resolutions were chosen because of supported framerates and the reality that most professional in-field monitors are 1024 x 576 resolution and one of the most popular computer and projector display resolutions is SXGA (1280 x 1024 @ 60Hz)

Also bear in mind that both 720p and 1080p are only proxies to the 4K resolution that REDCODE RAW is capturing to the digital media. So think of this as a Preview or Video Assist rather than Program output. Existing HD recorders are incapable of faithfully representing the RED images, its such a quantum leap in image quality.

BTW: Shooting 4K or 2K to a CF card is pretty incredible. When you try one I think you will be a convert.

Chris Reynolds

11-02-2007, 10:45 PM

I still want to use my split system and everything that is attached to it in 1080. So then I can record at the correct frame rate in all situations. So my question is will the HDSDI out (not the preview) output 1080 while going down to CFcard? I don't care if it is a proxy I just don't want to be doing a whole lot of frame interpolation from 720 60P. My post house will definitly be using the raw files (I am a huge fan) Just trying to build this split system and I have so far designed it around 1080.

Cheers, Chris

Andrew M.

11-03-2007, 08:00 AM

The same question here but more precise.
While recording to CF card 4K format can we see proxy of it in 1080p at 30fps coming out of dual HD-SDI link at 4:4:4 ?
Also, can we use single HD-SDI link at 3Gb/sec or dual link at 1.5Gb/sec?

Looking on some Stuart comments we do not have option to monitor on HDMI or HD-SDI at higher resolution then 720p / 848

What about the playback via HD-SDI can we play 4K material stored on the CF card or Hard Disk at 1080p via HD-SDI?

Andrew

Joel Kaye

11-03-2007, 08:21 AM

he reality that most professional in-field monitors are 1024 x 576 resolution and one of the most popular computer and projector display resolutions is SXGA (1280 x 1024 @ 60Hz)

Plus there are a zillion consumer LCD TV's under $500 now that support 720P via HDMI. I'm thinking that's the fastest/lowest cost way to get a quick look at things. Some of those units have to be halfway decent.

Häakon

11-03-2007, 08:47 AM

Plus there are a zillion consumer LCD TV's under $500 now that support 720P via HDMI. I'm thinking that's the fastest/lowest cost way to get a quick look at things. Some of those units have to be halfway decent.

There are a bunch that support 1080, too. It's a shame we can't get 1080 from the HDMI port. :-\

Rocco Schult

11-03-2007, 01:34 PM

I understand Chris and Andrews reuqest. And if the system exists partly already, then of course you want to use it.
In Europe the 720 displays as currently sold (they call them HD-ready) have crappy scalers, no pleasure to watch and you wouldn't you client to sit in front of those monitors, at least I wouldn't.

Re the 1080 via HD-SDI: I was told on NAB that they would show a cropped 2:1 scale from the 4.5k image.
Wonder what happened to that. Maybe the built-in scaler is already at max throttle with EVF, LCD (if in a new build both might be enabled simultaneously), HDMI out (which will probably be the same as EVF looking at the resolution) and then HD-SDI...phew.
Gotta be a hell of a scaler to do that all.

Stuart English

11-03-2007, 05:47 PM

Michael Lindsay

11-03-2007, 06:54 PM

want to preview a 2K 72 fps recording at 1080p 24 fps ?

With regards post shot preview:

Yes at 24fps? (more probably 25fps)... all the likely base rates are possible at 1080p

Never at 72fps. Not a very likely base rate.

With regards to while shooting monitoring:

I may be a little confused but when shooting off speed I don't need to see every frame. When shooting on a Phantom at 150fps you don't see every frame as you shoot. Smooth rendition would be good but I didn't think 720p at 72fps was possible anyway?

regards

Michael

Andrew M.

11-03-2007, 07:22 PM

I think that is just the point, a lot of the cheap LCD-TV's are junk. Those that claim 1080p resolution are usually the worst of all, as they have the smallest pixels. So the practical question to ask is - if I'm monitoring this camera in the field, whats the optimal resolution to use?

As the majority of battery powered field monitors are only 1024 x 576 pixels the answer is 720p and not 1080p. Providing a higher resolution preview output wouldn't be any more use to checking focus, framing or color, but it would limit the fps that we could repesent - want to preview a 2K 72 fps recording at 1080p 24 fps ?

If you are recording 1080p then that is a different argument. Then you want a dual link 1080p signal aout of the HD-SDI ports too (i.e as well as the above)
Monitoring is one thing and playback is the other.

You can have monitoring output active while recording or on standby.
The playback output as strange as it sounds could be active while recording (instant playback)

I agree that 720p for focus and frame setup in small 7 to 14” form factor is reality right now.
However the instant playback on 24 or 30” screen of good quality is a must.
Yes, for now we can take CF card stick it in the laptop connected to the Sony 24” LMD2450WHD or better and see what we got but instant playback is so convenient.

So what is the Playback HD-SDI output for on RED and what format it supports right now?

Chris Reynolds

11-03-2007, 07:26 PM

Hi Stuart
I am not concerned with field monitoring no prob at all. My problem is designing a capture system to use as a split. So I would like to keep the question simple. Will RED in the future be able to output 1080 at the same time as recording 4K redcode and 2K redcode?

Thanks in advance, Chris

RED,BLUE&GREEN

11-04-2007, 06:35 PM

TO THE SENIOR MEMBERS:

About Monitoring the Red. Why only 720p? Is this camera a consumer camcorder? I don't think so. This is 2007. 7 years ago was 720p. The monitor output should be 1080p or 2k. This camera is to be used by everyone including professionals. 1080p is even the standard for over a year now on the consumer tv's and projectors. Sony has a series of projectors that are "almost" 4k. The Red footage looks great on that. Wow, want to see Red on a 640x480 vga??? 1080 monitors are the Astro, Marshall, Sony, Jvc, stc. I have been using a 1080 monitor for a long time now.

Talking about 720p as the standard for computers monitors is a cop-out. You would be hard pressed to meet somone in our business who has not heard of an apple cinema display. Is 480p, or 720p good enough for you??? Not for me. I want new technology for my new technology......is that so much to ask?

Im sure Red will re-think this output and make it 2007.

The CF card. Again the stardard for record time is a least 30 - to 40 mins.
4 mins record time? When do the 64gig cards get here? My bet is on the Reddrive system. Sure it is highly compressed...but you get more than three takes per card!

Redcode Raw? What is that? As in full image not compressed. Redcode is compressed, not raw. I dont know anything "yet" that can record or capture 1.8 gigs per sec. Again, 1080 cameras have a 1080 monitor output...shouldn't a 2540 camera have at least a 1080 output.

Just wanting the best for the best.

Brook Willard

11-05-2007, 12:11 AM

RGB, chill.

Output is 720p because 1080p isn't done yet.

Record times on CF are 5 minutes because CF cards are only 8GB at this point. The 64GB cards get here when somebody invents them.

There is no difference in the compression between the CF system and the RED DRIVE. The RED DRIVE is just bigger.

REDCODE RAW is compressed and RAW. You are wrong.

Don't proclaim your opinions and misinformation as fact. You're 18 posts in and already I'm getting PMs about you.

GlennChan

11-05-2007, 12:36 AM

RAW is this case does not mean not compressed. It means that the sensor information is captured without demosaicing/processing it into a 4:4:4 image. And white balance isn't burned in, there is no image sharpening burned in, etc. etc.

Like RAW files from a dSLR.

filip kovcin

11-05-2007, 12:43 AM

...

The CF card. ... 4 mins record time? ...

just as reminder:

remember 35mm film? how often you are forced to change the roll? it's also (usually) 4 minute long story, and nobody in 35mm world is complaining about that. if you are lucky to have huge magazine with 300m (1000ft) negative inside
you can shoot ENORMOUS :) - almost 10 minute long sequence (see hitchcock's "rope"). nobody complains exept the loader - too heavy, and 1AC - camera needs proper ballance. and this solutioin is known and unchanged for almost 100 years. we will wait significantly less for proper recording time :)

RED,BLUE&GREEN

11-05-2007, 01:45 AM

To Mr. Right....Brook

Thanks for the info...But what is wrong with 1080 or 2k monitors? Im sure that the red was designed with full hd output in mind.

Looks like we both got an answer to our question. Looks like 64gig is close at hand!!! The thread... samsung 64gig -nand .........take a look. Also 16gig CF cards are in production today, just not in use by Red yet. Take a look at the Sandisk web site!! What I mean is instead of an 8 gig card I would prefer a 120 gig reddrive.

As far as Red code...you can have your Opinion..too!!

I understand Raw to mean uncompressed files..... i.e jpeg vs a tiff.. as in many still cameras. In todays technology a 4 stream uncompressed "raw 4k recording would be approx a 1.8gig/s. When using such a high compression such as Redcode at 24 to 27 meg/s .. you are not at it purest form..."raw".

In simple terms...ever had a raw carrot? Love them myself. When I step on it ..its compressed.....not raw anymore!! same carrot.

Im not saying that Redcode is bad...( its great!)..chill as you say!!! ..you don't have to be so defensive!!! Most forms of compression/algorithms are truely amazing today. Artifacting is very very limited if at all.

Im on this site to learn, educate......whatever!!...lets just make better pictures!!!!....ok.

PaulClements

11-05-2007, 05:45 AM

RED,BLUE&GREEN you are confused as to the differences between compression and RAW. RAW does not infact mean footage that is necessarily untouched direct from the camera. RAW is footage that allows access to the red, green and blue channels of the image. A JPEG or Tiff file has gone through a raw converter to create a final image. By using RAW files the ability to choose that final image is greater. RAW in effect is the digital equivilent of a film negative.

Redcode RAW is virtually loseless. Which means it might show compression artifacts under certain situations. Typically however little signs of this have been found in the footage and we are told that Graeme Natress is constantly working to improve the RedCode RAW codec so that any small amount is minimilized further. Side by side impressions of RAW and RedCode RAW have to date proven that few can tell the difference even on 4K projection.

As for the resolution issue I was under the impression that 1080p could be output from the camera at 4:4:4 RGB 1080p via dual link HD-SDI, as was YUV 4:2:2 720p/1080i/1080p.

Perhaps this is an option that can be turned on later via firmware upgrades Stuart?

Paul

Dalibor Fencl

11-05-2007, 09:06 AM

Hi RBG,

we all are here to learn, educate......whatever!! as you say.

But for learning, educate......whatever... we need to talk. For talking we need words. Those words should mean approximately same meaning for all of us. No sense if someone change their meaning deliberately, than arguing. Just a mess.

So I would offer to you this sense of words:

Uncompress just mean there is no compression, but there might be debayering, color correction, sharpening etc.

RAW on the other hand means there is no debayering, color correction, sharpening etc. but there might be some compression.

I guess 99% would agree with the above. If you really don't like it, it's your freedom of speech not to respect it, but then you can hardly talk with others.

David Mullen ASC

11-05-2007, 09:09 AM

Err... typical 35mm roll is 1000', which is 11-minutes long (and longer at 3-perf, more like 15-minutes). The smaller 400' rolls are usually for handheld/Steadicam, which is more like 5 minutes. This is where I think it is a bit odd that there isn't more complaining about the 4-minute record times with the RED, since having 50-minute record times on HD cameras is always one of those big selling points over film, fewer reloads per day, etc. Recording all day to the RED DRIVE was one of the things that Jackson praised when doing "Crossing the Line" wasn't it? Would he have seen the same time savings over film if he were downloading every four minutes? (Though of course putting in a new CF card is pretty fast... you don't stop production to empty CF cards.)

As far as monitoring goes, I don't see a problem with 720P monitoring on set; that's already pretty darn sharp on a decent-sized monitor, and most people aren't dragging around 50" flat panel displays for on-set HD monitoring, though possible (and even on those 720P can look pretty good.) Much better than a video tap inside a 35mm camera. 720P is certainly more than enough resolution for small LCD's.

I think the bigger issue is the lack of multiple live feeds from the camera, since often you have a separate SD monitor at the sound cart at least, plus perhaps a separate producer's HD video village, perhaps a clamshell SD mini-monitor for a roving script supervisor, etc. Lots of monitors these days on a movie set...

So is 1080P out of the HD-SDI just a later upgrade issue?

David Mullen ASC

11-05-2007, 09:19 AM

As far a "RAW" goes, that's a pretty abused term, like "LINEAR"...

I was at a demo for the F23 and they labelled the displayed 10-bit Sony Log image as "RAW" on the screen, but as I was watching in-camera speed ramps and whatnot, and some night stuff with gain added, and I asked "how can it be RAW if there is gain employed?" -- they said it was RAW because it was not color-corrected yet, and they knew that they were using the term loosely, it wasn't RAW in the correct usage of the word. It was just the Log image recorded by the camera and they wanted to explain the Log look and that the image had not had any post work done to it. I guess a "RAW" label takes up less space on a screen than "NOT COLOR-CORRECTED"...

And for a long time, people were calling the uncompressed 10-bit Log files from a Viper as being "RAW", which is not accurate either.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_image_format

A raw image file (sometimes written RAW image file) contains minimally processed data from the image sensor of a digital camera or image scanner. Raw files are so named because they are not yet processed and ready to be used with a bitmap graphics editor or printed. Normally, the image will be processed by a raw converter in a wide-gamut internal colorspace where precise adjustments can be made before conversion to an RGB file format such as TIFF or JPEG for storage, printing, or further manipulation. <snip>

Camera raw files are typically 2–6 times larger than JPEG files. Some raw formats do not use compression, some implement lossless data compression to reduce the size of the files without affecting image quality and others use lossy data compression where quantization and filtering is performed on the image data.

RivaiC

11-05-2007, 09:22 AM

Term being abused BIG TIME

Greg M

11-05-2007, 09:23 AM

David,
I agree with your points...the features needed in order of importance for me are:
1. Longer record times (20-40 minute minimum)
2. More than one monitor active at one time.
3. EVF (really need this option asap)
4. Audio on board
5. then start adding more features, formats, etc.

Although it would be very nice to have 1080P monitors, 720P is more than adequate. Save the 1080 and 2k monitors for the edit suites.

PaulClements

11-05-2007, 09:32 AM

Err... typical 35mm roll is 1000', which is 11-minutes long (and longer at 3-perf, more like 15-minutes). The smaller 400' rolls are usually for handheld/Steadicam, which is more like 5 minutes. This is where I think it is a bit odd that there isn't more complaining about the 4-minute record times with the RED, since having 50-minute record times on HD cameras is always one of those big selling points over film, fewer reloads per day, etc. Recording all day to the RED DRIVE was one of the things that Jackson praised when doing "Crossing the Line" wasn't it? Would he have seen the same time savings over film if he were downloading every four minutes? (Though of course putting in a new CF card is pretty fast... you don't stop production to empty CF cards.)

I brought this up earlier. 32GB CF cards are already available at around the $400 mark, but are simply not fast enough to cope with recording 27MBps. 2K at around 7-8MBps could be used to deliver over an hours worth of footage per card though. Not ideal shooting at the lower resolution and I hope the option for scaled 2K is just around the corner. But this is something I am considering using for low budget work to condense the onset and post workflows. 2K, uprezzed, cut into 4K should also look ok.

Paul

David Mullen ASC

11-05-2007, 09:37 AM

Or use the RED DRIVE when it gets released...

Blair S. Paulsen

11-05-2007, 10:01 AM

For the sake of this forum might I suggest we limit the meaning of the term RAW to mean unprocessed data, whether compressed or not. I generally use RAW to describe the color space vs RGB, YUV or JPEG (which I know is not a color space per se, but is a familiar file type to dSLR shooters). I suggest the wavelet compressed vs uncompressed discussion needs to be kept separate. FWIW uncompressed 4K is a format only hard disk manufacturers can love.

The key bit here is that the RedOne puts an incredibly rich data set onto on-board recording solutions - CF at the moment - which makes it very real world friendly while giving post a very elastic image.

It would be great if the preview HD-SDI and HDMI outputs were 1080 but they are not. Fortunately, when the clean dual link HD-SDI outs are lit up, you will be able to take a 1080P signal and split it as you see fit. I even support the concept of using that 1080P signal not just for video assist but for making a "fail safe" copy to disk or tape to keep the risk management folks away from the edge of the cliff. IMHO, with some careful grading and assuming a 1080 video finish distributed via MPEG-2 at some horrid bit rate, few would notice the insertion of the backup material in a typical viewing environment. It might look like ass on a good production monitor in a post house, but at least you wouldn't have to punch a re-shoot into the budget.

Now the real stuff - the biggest feature upgrade I want is to have the RedLCD, the RedEVF and the preview outs all hot at the same time - even if they are "only" 720. Please, please, ...

PaulClements

11-05-2007, 10:30 AM

Or use the RED DRIVE when it gets released...

For sure, but many are hesitant to rely on a drive based solution. The RedDriveFlash might well be seen as a viable option for larger budget productions with it's 96GB capacity giving approximately 1 hour @ 4k.

Paul

WesG

11-06-2007, 03:56 AM

Will RED in the future be able to output 1080 at the same time as recording 4K redcode and 2K redcode?

Was this answered??
Would be great to know what the situation is, as running out a live feed at 1080 whilst recording 4K or 2K could be important.

Jean Déraps

11-06-2007, 08:05 AM

Has anyone checked out or used the JVC DT-V24L1DU 24" Multi-Format LCD with native 1080p Monitor with the RED?

Stuart English

11-06-2007, 08:42 AM

TO THE SENIOR MEMBERS:

About Monitoring the Red. Why only 720p? Is this camera a consumer camcorder? I don't think so. This is 2007. 7 years ago was 720p. The monitor output should be 1080p or 2k. This camera is to be used by everyone including professionals. 1080p is even the standard for over a year now on the consumer tv's and projectors. Sony has a series of projectors that are "almost" 4k. The Red footage looks great on that. Wow, want to see Red on a 640x480 vga??? 1080 monitors are the Astro, Marshall, Sony, Jvc, stc. I have been using a 1080 monitor for a long time now.

Talking about 720p as the standard for computers monitors is a cop-out. You would be hard pressed to meet somone in our business who has not heard of an apple cinema display. Is 480p, or 720p good enough for you??? Not for me. I want new technology for my new technology......is that so much to ask?

Im sure Red will re-think this output and make it 2007..

This has been explained many times, so I'll refrain from doing so again, except to ask - this is about monitoring the camera for what purpose?

Also I will repeat the challenge I laid out earlier. As cameras operate most of the time in the field and not the studio, please identify a battery powered 1080p resolution, portable field production monitor? And I mean a monitor with 1080p resolution, not just 1080p inputs.

PaulClements

11-06-2007, 09:12 AM

This has been explained many times, so I'll refrain from doing so again, except to ask - this is about monitoring the camera for what purpose?

Also I will repeat the challenge I laid out earlier. As cameras operate most of the time in the field and not the studio, please identify a battery powered 1080p resolution, portable field production monitor? And I mean a monitor with 1080p resolution, not just 1080p inputs.

Hi Stuart,

I believe there are one or two field monitors on the cusp of arriving and I see it as a natural progression, with more and more high resolution cameras being used in the field, that such devices will become more common place. There's also the studio use, where having a 1080p preview would be slightly more to work with than the 720p signal. Again improvements in screen technology for studio use is certainly being pushed toward the higher resolution.

Whilst I am not overly concerned, and will happily be able to contend with 720p, the question that has popped up a couple of times recently is simply whether the capability is already built into the camera in one form or another. Could firmware be applied and allow 1080p out at some point in the future as and when 1080p field previews start to become common place with HD+ cameras.

My main concern is simply the futureproofing of the camera and whether it's going to be a software fix or a factory installed hardware fix.

Thanks for you time to answer this

Paul

Stuart English

11-06-2007, 09:55 AM

Ultimately its a framestore formatting question Paul. If you are recording 1080p, then yes you could generate a 1080p dual link HD-SDI output in addition to the 720p Preview output.

If you are recording 2K or 4K RAW things get more complex. That's all I can say at this stage is you are absoluetly correct, the RED ONE camera is very flexible as far as firmware structure is concerned.

Nick Shaw

11-06-2007, 09:58 AM

If you are recording 1080p…

Should any significance be read into this statement? I thought there was not going to be any 1080p recording.

I don't want to re-open an old debate, but 1080p60 recording from the full sensor (or at least a 3840 pixel wide window on it) could be very handy.

Joel Kaye

11-06-2007, 10:02 AM

Should any significance be read into this statement? I thought there was not going to be any 1080p recording.

He did say the camera was very flexible. If I could record 1080P sampled down from the 4K to a 32MG CF card that would sure make life easier for me. I'd take 2K if I couldn't get 1080P though.

Guy

11-06-2007, 10:23 AM

Also I will repeat the challenge I laid out earlier. As cameras operate most of the time in the field and not the studio, please identify a battery powered 1080p resolution, portable field production monitor? And I mean a monitor with 1080p resolution, not just 1080p inputs.

The cine-tal can run off 24v DC and is 1080p:

http://www.cine-tal.com/cinemage.htm

Jeff Kilgroe

11-06-2007, 10:29 AM

The cine-tal can run off 24v DC and is 1080p:

http://www.cine-tal.com/cinemage.htm

Yeah, but their 1080p models, like the one in this link, are neither battery powered, nor are they that portable.

I seriously don't see what all the fuss is about. 1080p out of an HDMI port would be nice for a video village application or a larger studio monitor configuration. But in reality, I think for most users it's not a big concern. If you need 1080p / 2K monitoring, there's the HD-SDI outs on the camera.

If it's an issue of wanting to hook up to a 1080p consumer HDTV for the sake of cost, well, uh... I understand. But I guess we can't have it all, or at least not right now. There's always the SDI to DVI converter box route.

Guy

11-06-2007, 10:36 AM

Yeah, but their 1080p models, like the one in this link, are neither battery powered, nor are they that portable.

from the cinemage specs:
Resolution: 1920 x 1200 (1920 x 1080 active video area)
Power: 120/220 AC or 24vdc ; 200W

http://www.cine-tal.com/products/cinemage/cinemage_specs.htm

They are a lot more portable than a CRT.

Jeff Kilgroe

11-06-2007, 11:04 AM

Ah, missed the 24vdc input. And yes, more portable than a CRT, but that's subjective. Anything is "portable" it's all a matter of what you and your crew are willing to lug around with you. Sometimes lugging a 22lb screen just isn't at all practical.

<snip> I snipped the rest of my post, becasue I'm a dumbass.

Guy

11-06-2007, 11:22 AM

I thought we were talking about 1080p over HD-SDI not HDMI.

Jeff Kilgroe

11-06-2007, 11:30 AM

Sorry... You're right, Guy. Ooops.

I'm going to go find some sleep...

Chris Reynolds

11-06-2007, 12:30 PM

I think my original post is getting way lost. I am not concerned about monitoring it's about capturing. If I am on set using the split that I have designed and they are shooting 24fps I don't want to be capturing at 720 60P. For many reasons this is. I eventually plan on capturing timecode along with the hdsi so I can use the split captures to go straight into offline. So if the shoot was to be 24fps I would like to capture at 24fps, and the only format that supports that is 1080. It's also a great backup LAST RESORT if the CF media gets corrupt I have a uncompressed (NOT RAW) 1080 feed. So all I was after was a simple answer and not an explanation on why they have gone 720 (I understand that) On whether the camera will support 1080 in the future. If you don't know the thats fine with me just say so.

Cheers, Chris

Blair S. Paulsen

11-11-2007, 01:04 AM

Curran Giddens

11-11-2007, 05:58 AM

At HD Expo there was a guy hawking a lightweight, portable, DC powerable 1080 monitor:
http://www.j-lab.com/LCD.pt

that guy's website could definitely use an upgrade. any word on price?

check out this setup
http://www.j-lab.com/images/CFS-1.jpg

Stuart English

11-11-2007, 09:30 AM

I think my original post is getting way lost. I am not concerned about monitoring it's about capturing. So if the shoot was to be 24fps I would like to capture at 24fps, and the only format that supports that is 1080.

Cheers, Chris

Chris, to do what you want the camera needs to record 1080p.

Steve Freebairn

11-11-2007, 12:04 PM

This is one of those issues where it sounds like we need to wait and see what Red will be able to do. If Stuart says something that they're working on, and then they are unable to do it, it would make people really upset. I'd rather be left in the dark and then get told when it is a sure thing than have a bunch of promises that only some turn out to be right.