"slums 13:city Of No Mercy" Martial Arts Action Short

[R.L. Scott]

SHADOW MOTION PICTURES/ A3E MEDIA


THIS IS A LINK TO THE UNFINISHED SHORT FILM... PLEASE NOTE THAT WE ARE STILL WORKING WITH THE COLOR CORRECTION AND THE CG ENDING CREDITS.



http://www.briandmoody.com/slums13/SlumsPromoV1LowRes.mov


username - rl

password - slums13






THIS IS A PROMOTIONAL ACTION SHORT WE SHOT EXCLUSIVELY ON RED FOR OUR UPCOMING FEATURE FILM "SLUMS 13: CITY OF NO MERCY" BEING DISTRIBUTED BY MIRAMAX FILMS.

THE SHORT IS BEING SHOT ON RED #43. there is more info on the film and clips of the martial artists in the film at...

www.myspace.com/slums13auditions

http://srv0106-06.oak1.imeem.com/g/269efd4eac779dd67308d0edf5bbc51e.jpg



"SLUMS 13:CITY OF NO MERCY"


UPDATE... THE BEHIND THE SCENES FOOTAGE IS UP IN MY MOST RECENT POST ON PAGE 3



PRODUCED BY...

TOM PORTANOVA
JIM MCKINNEY
JOE KLEBER
R.L. SCOTT


DIRECTED BY...

R.L. SCOTT

FIGHT CHOREOGRAPHY BY...

R.L. SCOTT
MITT LENIX

STARRING...

MITT LENIX
STACIE ALON
DAVID O CONNER
CARNELL HOLLEY
AARON ISREAL






DP/ CINEMATOGRAPHER...

JIM MCKINNEY




DIT/ RED #43 OWNER...

JOE KLEBER

[Alexander Nikishin]

Welcome to the world of RED, good shooting!

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Interesting how us DP's get more and more neglected. We used to be included at the end of the trailers that's not always the case anymore. Now we're not even mentioned in a forum for cameras. :rip_1:


:innocent:

[R.L. Scott]

actually bro,Jim Mckinney and Tom Portanova are the DP's... I should have mentioned that... point well taken my friend.... point well taken. thanks Alexander, I can't wait to get started... it'll be a long night.

[Ben Feuer]

Not to be finicky - but why is this in the footage section?

[ChrisLyon]

BETTER YET: WHY IS EVERYTHING IN CAPS?

I had to ask. Welcome to RedUser.

[Steve Sherrick]

Because he is going to be posting footage. Looks like they start shooting today, so I'd expect some pics up here soon.

Steve

[R.L. Scott]

well said Steve, there will be a making of documentary up here tomorrow, and the short will be up in two weeks.

[R.L. Scott]

sorry about the caps Chris... just too excited about the shoot.

[Andreas Fernbrant]

What differs this movie from Banlieue 13 made in 2004 by Luc Besson? This also a martial arts movie set in the slums of "district 13" :)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0414852/

[R.L. Scott]

The Story is completely different in every way. actually I haven't seen Banlieue 13. from the clips I have seen of it on youtube, it seems to have more Parkour and free running than martial arts, so I am really not worried about that... like I said my story is completely different. there are two films called Flashpoint, one with Kris Kristoferson made in the early nineties and one with Donnie Yen made this year... there are two films called Wasteland, the list goes on and on.

[Corey Culp]

What differs this movie from Banlieue 13 made in 2004 by Luc Besson? This also a martial arts movie set in the slums of "district 13" :)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0414852/

I was wondering the same thing, Andreas.


there are two films called Flashpoint, one with Kris Kristoferson made in the early ninetys and one with Donnie Yen made this year... there are two films called Wasteland, the list goes on and on.

Not to point fingers or anything, R.L., but Besson's movie is a unique title compared to the movies you mentioned. I instantly thought of District B13 once I saw the title of your project.

I also found it interesting that your MySpace page shows Luc Besson as one of your influential directors, as well as you having a project called Wasteland (a title you have already mentioned as being used more than once).

Again, not trying to make waves, R.L. It's just kind of curious.

[MystarInc]

How do I view the short??

[MystarInc]

Have you guys heard of a film called "Intimate Game" that Monyque Thompson was also in. Intimate Game is a martial art film that was also shot in Atlanta.

You can view the trailer at www.myspace.com/mystarentertainmentinc
and it's also avaliable on youtube and blackplanet.

[purefilm]

Are you filming this in Atlanta? If you are I would like to come out to set and see how things are going with the red. I am a experienced 2nd AC, so if you need any help I would like to get some experience with the red.

[MystarInc]

I saw Banlieue 13... Is Slums 13 a remake of that movie or something?

[R.L. Scott]

slums 13 Has Nothing To Do With B 13. Luc Besson Rocks, but I haven't been able to see the film yet to make any kind of comparison. The Title Doesn't Make The Film, It's The Content... Anyway, It's Not A Remake... I Am Not Recreating The Same Film, The Names Are Just Similar.

The Film Will Be Shot Here In Atlanta And We Have Several Actors From L.a. And New York Coming In. The Film Stars Singer Akon, The Last Dragons Taimak, Ernie Reyes Jr. And Many Other Talented Actors And Martial Artists. The film also stars Hip Hop Legend Stic.man of the rap group Dead Prez. but honestly, I thought that this forum was about Red users using Red, not who is naming their film what. have my brothers in arms forsaken me? no worries.

[purefilm]

I am big fan of Ernie Reyes Jr. That sounds like a fun shoot. How do I get on board. I am a experienced Loader/2nd AC who will be owning his own red soon. I would love to come out and get some experience with the Red. If you don't need a 2nd I would just like to come out and check things out.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

No images yet, not a single pic :sad: . I thought the whole point with going RED was skipping the lab process for your dailies :innocent:

[R.L. Scott]

I am uploading the making of right now my friend... those files are huge, but boy do they look great. thanks for the offer Pure, I'll send you some info and we can discuss it.

[PaulClements]

Hi R.L. Scott,

I recall chatting to you briefly over at DVXuser days gone by (I don't have time to read/write there much these days). I remember being impressed to discover you were the writer of the original screenplay that was adapted to become Underworld, even though you said they basically butchered it or something along those lines.

If you get the chance to checkout District 13 there's some pretty good parkour and fight scene's in there.

Good to see you posting over here and adopting the equipment. Good luck with your shoot and do keep us upto date. Looks like you've secured a decent lineup.

Paul

[Brandon Rice]

Still not seeing anything here R.L.

[R.L. Scott]

thanks Paul, sorry about the wait Brice... I've been at lab 601 working with the files. An exclusive clip of the post production process from Lab 601 is below and the official behind the scenes footage will be up by tomorrow.


Post Production at Lab 601

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdU9ZWZ1nTU

[PaulClements]

Looking good, what are your initial impressions of the footage... And when can we expect a sneak preview!!!

Paul

[purefilm]

Looks like a fun film, I want to check it out.
Is Ross your 1st AC? I have worked with him, he is a good AC.

Can't wait to see some footage.

[R.L. Scott]

Yeah, Ross was fantastic. the footage looks amazing. I have to say all of the praise the Red gets is truly deserved. I should have some solid Tiffs up or footage pretty soon.

[purefilm]

I can't wait to see some images, have be some of the most exciting footage to date. When does production begin?

[R.L. Scott]

we wrapped Sunday night at 5:30pm. I am currently loading up a video of some of the post production work at Lab 601 studios. it shows some of the footage and the official behind the scenes footage will be up late tonight.

[R.L. Scott]

official behind the scenes clips

part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcDJ52cIR_0

part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar8_Gnl_SSY

part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzonlY5Tdm4

[SidKant]

wow, the stuff looks great. I'm just bummed that i read this forum so late. I'm a Second year undergrad at Gatech and have walked down that alley 1000 times. I just happend to not be there the one time a crew shooting on Red shows up.......

[R.L. Scott]

Whats your major Sid? we can always use a passionate filmmaker.

[SidKant]

Media Studies and going for the minor in film theory. Do you do alot of work around atlanta?

[R.L. Scott]

I have done a lot, but after Slums 13 I'll be moving to L.A. to begin working on my next film.

[SidKant]

Well it looks great, and like everyone else here cant wait to see those beautiful red images. If ever you need some extra hands while you're still out here in ATL, there's a handful of us cinefiles at Tech with just the passion (and a few of us with the experience) you're looking for.

[R.L. Scott]

Thanks... actually I will be looking to hire some extra crew members in about a month. send me an email address and I can get you some info.

[CJ Roy]

Did I miss the footage of this somewhere or is it all BTS?

thanks.

-CJ

[Corey Culp]

I looked at the BTS footage and it looks like you guys are having a good time. (Always a good thing.)

Looking forward to the final product!

[R.L. Scott]

Thanks unfiltered, actually CJ the short will be up in two weeks.

[shashbugu]

yo R.L Scott, that looks real good, your journey is gonna be smooth. Before you come out to Los Angeles hit me up, I will hook you up with a whole crew of AFI grads. We like working with promising young cats.

[R.L. Scott]

cool, I appreciate that Shash... let's exchange info and talk about it. I have a two picture deal, and the next one will be shot all green/ blue screen 300 style. it's a dark anime style action film.

[R.L. Scott]

Here are a few set photos from the shoot



http://srv0106-08.oak1.imeem.com/g/a87bdecaffe9b3fbef418283d6665b37.jpg

http://srv0106-08.oak1.imeem.com/g/bbb3a765840db2f89812ba330995ae45.jpg

http://srv0106-08.oak1.imeem.com/g/92be7da64059fa37cc36e3afd4500f06.jpg

http://srv0106-10.oak1.imeem.com/g/ea8a4bc00c56d388a3c27e59ac3792d6.jpg

[Alfeo]

yo R.L Scott, that looks real good, your journey is gonna be smooth. Before you come out to Los Angeles hit me up, I will hook you up with a whole crew of AFI grads. We like working with promising young cats.

Actually... R.L.'s gonna fly out his Atlanta crew to LA for the 2 pictures, but you AFI cats can PA. :)

-Alfeo

[Kholi Hicks]

There's no footage here.

Was this just a fight test on a RED cam?

[Alfeo]

thats the "REDaphone" R.L. is holding

[Fredrik Callinggard]

With all respect R.L.Scott but this thread has become so boring that I use it to go to sleep. Are you going to show any actual footage at all? Or are you going to continue to spam us with meaningless behind the scenes material?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[R.L. Scott]

as everyone knows, working with Red footage takes time. I wish it was an overnight thing but it's not. and just so you know, it's not meaningless to the talented people who worked their asses of to make a great product... if you have had an opportunity to work with the Red you would know that, but thanks for putting me back to the top of the thread

[chuck colburn]

With all respect R.L.Scott but this thread has become so boring that I use it to go to sleep. Are you going to show any actual footage at all? Or are you going to continue to spam us with meaningless behind the scenes material?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

I like the second clip where the guy calling action is using a bullhorn when he's about five feet from the camera and talent. LOL Plus I wish I could post in big a fat white font. How does he do that?

[R.L. Scott]

wow... more jealousy, sweet. my work is done. and as far as the horn goes, we can pretty much do whatever we choose to do... that's the great thing about this country. nothing any simple minded human being can say will ever make any difference to me because at the end of the day, Miramax is putting out my next two films. something I worked very hard to accomplish, so I don't have time to hate on anyone else, simply put.... I'm too busy to care about that sort of thing.

[Rbs-ent]

Preach...Revenge is the best success!!!

True say, I'm sure hoping to see some damn great footage when it comes through, At this stage it's still rare to get anything of quality as the camera is still a lil baby. And i remember the same thing with the HVX, when we all moved from dloading great samples from DV to HD, It's a slow evolution process. I think a little bit of curtsy is needed.

[R.L. Scott]

Thanks RBS - Ent, we are all allies in our search for RED satisfaction... I'll post the footage hot off the presses.

[Geoff Reisner]

Hey R.L., I'm anxious to see some footage as well! I also just PM'd u with some steadicam questions...

[Jim McKinney]

Hey R.L., I'm anxious to see some footage as well! I also just PM'd u with some steadicam questions...

Hey Geoff, while RL is a great guy, you might want to check with Alfeo who was the steadicam operator. RL is the director/producer.

[R.L. Scott]

yeah, Alfeo is the master steadicam operator... I've sent his info to you. also, the action short will be up Tuesday.

[James T Mather]

With all respect R.L.Scott but this thread has become so boring that I use it to go to sleep. Are you going to show any actual footage at all? Or are you going to continue to spam us with meaningless behind the scenes material?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

since the internet whatever happened to good manners and politeness?

[Fredrik Callinggard]

since the internet whatever happened to good manners and politeness?

Apparantly 3 sarcasm smileys didn't do the trick so I'll spell it.

I was kidding. :wink:

(I was cheeky in saying this is a footage thread without any footage so far, but that's simply because I'm curious in seeing something and every time there's a post on this thread I'm here to see if there is).

[Álex Montoya]

He was rude and right at the same time.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

He was rude and right at the same time.

I know I was rude that's the point with being cheeky but I thought that the sarcasm smileys would explain that. That's the point with smileys - they're there to show the facial expressions we can't show because it's on the internet and not in person.

Anyway, enough with the explanations. I agree with ....and right at the same time. I think it's about time to show some material this thread has been on for ages now.

[R.L. Scott]

all of the post work is done and the short will be up tomorrow my friends... whew, cumbersome but great fun, those files are enormous.

[purefilm]

So what is going on with the feature of "Slums 13: City of No Mercy" When are you scheduled to begin shooting? Who is crewed for this job. I know Mike Felosa mentioned something about being the first audio guy to work with the red in Atlanta. Is it still going to be shoot on the Red? I am really interested to hear more about this project.

[Rick Darge]

all of the post work is done and the short will be up tomorrow my friends... whew, cumbersome but great fun, those files are enormous.

Where is the flick sucka?

[Jim McKinney]

:w00t: It's kinda like NAB 2006. Is it for real - or is it a scam!?!

[Álex Montoya]

That's a bluff.

[R.L. Scott]

This is a link to the unfinished roughcut of city of no mercy... please note that after review, we are still fixing some of the problems with the color correction, but I wanted you guys to see what we have done so far.


http://www.briandmoody.com/slums13/SlumsPromoV1LowRes.mov

username - rl

password - slums13

[Rudi Herbert]

Cannot access server, it's password protected.

[Rick Darge]

son of a f***ing b***

I really want to see this

[Rick Darge]

Woo-hoo!

[R.L. Scott]

sorry about that guys...

username - rl

password - slums13

[R.L. Scott]

No Woories Bro, Hope You Guys Are Entertained.

[jaadgy akanni]

Saw a little bit of capoeira there.

[R.L. Scott]

Yeah, One Of The Fighters Studies It.

[ChrisLyon]

slums 13 Has Nothing To Do With B 13.

The names are similar and they are similar in nature. I'd change the name so people don't confuse (or laugh at) your film with thoughts of B13.

Also, I'm sitting 1/3 the way through the promotional short and I'm still staring at text. I cant wait to see some footage... :bleh:

Also, typing in bold doesnt mean anything. It comes off as extremely rude.

[Corey Culp]

I'm a little by myself, R.L. Who was the short made for again? You kill nearly a third of your time with text that seems to be more exhibition than of any meaning to the viewer. The sequence really goes nowhere, none of which was helped by the 1:07 of text. ( I assume that was the point of spending that much time "asking" the audience to read.)

The editing seemed as though you didn't really have enough coverage to mix it up a bit with your shots.

I'm glad you've got your deal in place, as I don't think this would open too many doors. I hope you get some really good corrective criticism from the posters in hopes of shaping what you have planned for the feature.

Maybe it's the expectation you set up, but I was pretty disappointed.

[ChrisLyon]

Criticisms on the story, not you as a person:

I agree with unfiltered. I'm not sure what Miramax sees in this feature based on this short alone. The text is especially revealing on one aspect- that we have seen this story before, maybe not in B13, but certainly in other sources.

"And with that power, came greed"? "They began to fight amongst themselves"? The text isn't even grammatically correct. It seems like something that you are using to sell your idea would (at the very least) be worthy of a grammar check.

No one cares about the production companies to make this promotional short. Maybe they care, but not enough to sit through all these company splashes that no one has ever heard of before.

The logo is also pretty trite. Graffiti? Are we to believe these men in suits are gangsters?

Nothing against you, mate. It just seems like this production is based on effects, cameras and karate and not on story. If I wanted to see cool karate moves I'd go to my local championships for free and get hours of entertainment. The question I would ask myself if I were you is: "What would make someone pick this up at Blockbuster?" As of right now- taking in consideration the artwork and preview- the answer is "nothing."

[Álex Montoya]

I don't really see the need to be that harsh.

[Corey Culp]

I don't really see the need to be that harsh.

I don't think either my post or Chris' post of particularly harsh. We weren't attacking the guy, personally or otherwise. It seems we both feel that it is lacking. The footage plays like a demo reel for a stuntman/martial artist/choreographer, and not a narrative piece , which is what R.L. is selling.

I'm giving he man all kinds of credit here. Putting aside the amount of time that passed since he announced his project (27 days), he has built up a little bit of hype in this forum. In this, he has set himself up for criticism, positive or negative. While I don't think my comments were harsh, they were honest and constructive. I pointed out why it didn't reach me, without alternative advice. That's his job as a filmmaker to take his criticism and adapt it if he sees fit. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't.

I don't wish any ill towards R.L. or his project. I just think it does him a disservice to sugarcoat things. I'm sure he'd appreciate my input even if he doesn't agree with it.

[Karl H]

In all fairness I think this little short is a 'demo' piece only. I dont think it's meant to get into the feature films narrative. He isnt selling the story, it sounds like he's already done that. At least I hope, as this does look more like a showreel piece.

Perhaps they were asked to prove they could pull off the action sequences and nothing more. If Miramax were happy with the script then maybe they wanted to see how it would look technically.

Anyhow, on that level I thought this was quite good and I dont see much wrong with it. As you say, with tweeks to the CC it should flow well. (there was a shadow of a flag waving on the floor which kept getting my attention, but maybe thats just me). I thought it was professionally done overall. I would have prefered a higher res version :-), but thanks for posting R.L.Scott, and good luck with the feature film.

[Corey Culp]

In all fairness I think this little short is a 'demo' piece only. I dont think it's meant to get into the feature films narrative. He isnt selling the story, it sounds like he's already done that. At least I hope, as this does look more like a showreel piece.

Perhaps they were asked to prove they could pull off the action sequences and nothing more. If Miramax were happy with the script then maybe they wanted to see how it would look technically.

Anyhow, on that level I thought this was quite good and I dont see much wrong with it. As you say, with tweeks to the CC it should flow well. (there was a shadow of a flag waving on the floor which kept getting my attention, but maybe thats just me). I thought it was professionally done overall. I would have prefered a higher res version :-), but thanks for posting R.L.Scott, and good luck with the feature film.


THIS IS A PROMOTIONAL ACTION SHORT WE SHOT EXCLUSIVELY ON RED FOR OUR UPCOMING FEATURE FILM "SLUMS 13: CITY OF NO MERCY" BEING DISTRIBUTED BY MIRAMAX FILMS.

That sounds to me like it a short that is based on the feature film itself, and not a demo piece or showreel.

R.L. mentions the CC that needs to be done and that it's an "unfinished roughtcut." I have to assume that what he posted is where his short is at editorially. If so, my feeling still remains.

With the way he has presented this project from the first day, I figured this was a narrative short based on his feature that he has Mirmax fitting the bill for.

This entire thread reminds me of a writer friend of mine. He always talked about this script he was working on. Telling me about this scene. Then a week later, tells me of another scene. This lasted for months until I asked him "how's the script?" He hadn't gotten passed page 10. So I told him "get on it! You talked about this script so much, I want to read it."

Two months later, he finished his first draft and gave it to me to read. While I liked some of it, and it was just a first draft, he had given away key things in the story. Things that would've had more of an impact on me had he just finished the script and had me read it, without ever giving away these bits. These were key moments in story that wouldn't have been written out, regardless of the rewrite count. It became anti-climactic after knowing about these pivotal moments.



That's what I'm getting at with this post. If he just wanted to show off some footage (as this forum was created for), then just show some footage that's been in the can for over three weeks. But don't promise the short for nearly a month, then throw up an incomplete piece. It doesn't look good on him.

[Karl H]

Hi Unfiltered,

My gut still says he shot a 'scene' from the film. It's just a fight scene and an incomplete one at that. He says it's a 'promotional action short', so I take that to read its a short showing how the action will be handled. Probably best for Scott to tell us this.

I am just glad to see some footage, there are an increasing number of threads in this forum now that dont contain any footage at all, so I was glad he put up the goods :-)

[Tonaci Tran]

Looking forward to checking this out. The connection here at the ramada sucks so its telling me 2 hours for download. argh. looks like I'll have to download it later.

[R.L. Scott]

I'm a little by myself, R.L. Who was the short made for again? You kill nearly a third of your time with text that seems to be more exhibition than of any meaning to the viewer. The sequence really goes nowhere, none of which was helped by the 1:07 of text. ( I assume that was the point of spending that much time "asking" the audience to read.)

The editing seemed as though you didn't really have enough coverage to mix it up a bit with your shots.

I'm glad you've got your deal in place, as I don't think this would open too many doors. I hope you get some really good corrective criticism from the posters in hopes of shaping what you have planned for the feature.

Maybe it's the expectation you set up, but I was pretty disappointed.


it was actually made for the producers... not really a short for the masses... it's a promo.

[R.L. Scott]

we are still working on it guys... that's why I posted it... to get some feed back from other experienced filmmakers in order to make it better... thanks for the criticism.

[ChrisLyon]

So I'm assuming then that the producers have already read the script and the promotional short was just for proof of commitment?

I worked on a promotional short (www.derekwaynejohnson.com/innocentsway) that was made for just that purpose. It was for some pretty big producers in Hollywood. The short doesn't make sense unless you have read the script. That's so no one would be able to work on a similar story. So I totally understand the whole promotional short mentality.

With the text at the beginning of your short being all we have to go on, I'm sure our criticism is more of confusion based on lack of information. However, I think that it's about the same amount of information we would get in a trailer. It would be good to get some real "trailer" info so that we can make a better judgement.

[R.L. Scott]

your spot on Chris... they have read the script and bought into it, so this is just some visual representation of that. so thats why it's so credit heavy in the beginning.

[Corey Culp]

So I'm assuming then that the producers have already read the script and the promotional short was just for proof of commitment?

I worked on a promotional short (www.derekwaynejohnson.com/innocentsway) that was made for just that purpose. It was for some pretty big producers in Hollywood. The short doesn't make sense unless you have read the script. That's so no one would be able to work on a similar story. So I totally understand the whole promotional short mentality.

With the text at the beginning of your short being all we have to go on, I'm sure our criticism is more of confusion based on lack of information. However, I think that it's about the same amount of information we would get in a trailer. It would be good to get some real "trailer" info so that we can make a better judgement.

Completely agree with this. With the information provided up to this point, I understood it as a short, which is different than what it actually is.

I'm with it now. :)

[Drew Mylrea]

looks like a couple of guys dancing with one and other.

[R.L. Scott]

I feel like we as producers needed more time to prepare

[purefilm]

Well I enjoyed what was shot. It is cool to see someone stepping out side the box and trying to take the Red to the next level. I just watch the first action fight scene on the red! Granted There are some CC errors, butt I am sure that will be taken care of in time. It kind of had a throw back feel to the late 80's, early 90's action movies. I also like the concept of an American martial arts movie, with a mix of different styles and groups of people. Not completely Asian. Keep it up and I look forward to seeing what is next.

[Ben Feuer]

I dug it. Thanks for sharing. Only question...why is Kaneda fighting when everybody else sent a flunky?

[Rudi Herbert]

I dug it. Thanks for sharing. Only question...why is Kaneda fighting when everybody else sent a flunky?

Well, you know how control obssesed the Japanese bosses are :-)

[Khan Bui]

It looks like going to a dojo and watch a match.

[R.L. Scott]

I'm not sure I really understood Hollywood's comment, but thanks guys. the guy playing Kaneda is the current world record holder for board breaking... Mitt Lenix. he was just on ESPN ( the Paul Mitchell Open ) a month ago.

[Corey Culp]

I dug it. Thanks for sharing. Only question...why is Kaneda fighting when everybody else sent a flunky?

And why did it seem like the flunkies were appearing out of nowhere? :huh:

[R.L. Scott]

not enough daylight left for all of the shots we wanted and we only wanted to spend one days worth of budget on the promo as it was to only act as a visual for the producers. there are several more things I would have liked to have done, but another time.

[Kholi Hicks]

The combat here, while directional, is kind of slow and stodgy. From the other side of the line, not the spectator. Was this choreographed on the day of? Spur of the moment?

Also, you said that some of these guys are big in the LA fight/stunt community? I've never seen their faces but would sure like to get in contact with them. Where abouts are they stationed?

The other posts cleared up my questions about this project. Although, i'm still confused as to why there's a need for a small fight sequence if there's distribution in place. That seems counter-productive: do the investors think the efforts are better placed here than going into actual production?

[R.L. Scott]

the producers gave us little time to prepare. they wanted to see the Red footage in an actual test clip basically to see if it was what everyone says it is since we decided not to shoot on film long story short. they wanted to see how it would fare against 35mm. as it would be more cost effective to shoot on RED.

[Nick Shaw]

RL, this is slightly off topic, but do you realise that part of the reason the movie takes a very long time to download is that the audio track is actually slightly larger than the video track. The video is quite compressed (3Mb/s MPEG-4) but the audio is uncompressed (32 bit float 48KHz, which is massive overkill for a web viewing QuickTime).

[R.L. Scott]

I 'd like to make a statement. I commented in a previous post about why the promo needed work. I feel that as the director, I should have taken more time to prepare the cast for the shoot, even though we were pressed by the producers to have a finished clip to show them.

the fault is all my own... I had a tremendously talented group of martial arts actors and I didn't schedule enough time to train them for the promo... so I would like to apologize to Staci Alon, Aaron Isreal, Cornell Holley and David OConner.

[ChrisLyon]

Why are you apologizing? You sold the script and you are apparently greenlit for distribution. Don't apologize! You said it yourself that the promo was just icing on the cake.

[R.L. Scott]

Why are you apologizing? You sold the script and you are apparently greenlit for distribution. Don't apologize! You said it yourself that the promo was just icing on the cake.

well, honestly I felt like when several people kept pointing out it's flaws, I put too much of the fault in the hands of the martial arts performers and not enough on myself... just how I feel.

[Rudi Herbert]

well, honestly I felt like when several people kept pointing out it's flaws, I put too much of the fault in the hands of the martial arts performers and not enough on myself... just how I feel.

Well, like he said, you've gone farther than most people will ever go, so, even if the short indeed feels unpolished and somewhat visually stagnant, you surely must have ways to convince that most jaded of all creatures, the studio executive, that you can pull it off. So, me being you, I would relax and get to work on it. Your cast seems first rate skills wise and they even appear comfortable in front of the camera, now all you need is practice, practice, practice.

I took part in an interview with Dony Yuen once where he said that the most important thing about martial arts films is to rehearse every scene ad nauseum without rolling camera and to walk around the actors while they're at it so you can get a feel of where to put the camera at each particular point. This in fact works much better than any schematics or storyboarding, and I would agree with that. He elevated the at-best mediocre fight scenes in "The Transporter" to something really fun to watch.

[liquidigital]

That sounds to me like it a short that is based on the feature film itself, and not a demo piece or showreel.

R.L. mentions the CC that needs to be done and that it's an "unfinished roughtcut." I have to assume that what he posted is where his short is at editorially. If so, my feeling still remains.

With the way he has presented this project from the first day, I figured this was a narrative short based on his feature that he has Mirmax fitting the bill for.

This entire thread reminds me of a writer friend of mine. He always talked about this script he was working on. Telling me about this scene. Then a week later, tells me of another scene. This lasted for months until I asked him "how's the script?" He hadn't gotten passed page 10. So I told him "get on it! You talked about this script so much, I want to read it."

Two months later, he finished his first draft and gave it to me to read. While I liked some of it, and it was just a first draft, he had given away key things in the story. Things that would've had more of an impact on me had he just finished the script and had me read it, without ever giving away these bits. These were key moments in story that wouldn't have been written out, regardless of the rewrite count. It became anti-climactic after knowing about these pivotal moments.



That's what I'm getting at with this post. If he just wanted to show off some footage (as this forum was created for), then just show some footage that's been in the can for over three weeks. But don't promise the short for nearly a month, then throw up an incomplete piece. It doesn't look good on him.


I'm a writer and it is very hard to find people that will be honest with their critiques. I certainly appreciate the honesty because I want it to be market ready when I show it. So although things may seem harsh sometimes, that's what I look for. That's why I let my mom read the scripts. She is fucking vicious. lol

Oh, I'm downloading it now. Looking forward to seeing it. Thanks for posting R.L.

[R.L. Scott]

Thanks a lot guys... I hated that we only had one day to rehearse before shooting... the producers didn't give much time or budget for prep... but we got the film budget and will begin in January. seeing the examples in this forum has helped me to grow as a director. I have learned so much from all of your input, thanks.

[liquidigital]

R.L. I like the concept. Story has elements like the manga Basilisk. Check it out if you can, maybe give you some ideas for storyboards and such.

[R.L. Scott]

thanks Liquidigital...will do. I have never seen the Manga but I have the live action version
( Shinobi - heart under blade )

[Petr Dvorak]

very funny sfx :)

[joe12south]

So, we've all learned the dangers of over-hyping!

Now, knowing what this actually is at this point, the one critique I would offer to take going into the real deal is:

If you're going to do this kind of highly choreographed fake dance fighting, you're going to have to cover the hell out of it and really punch-up the editing for the viewer to feel any visceral impact. The bar has been set pretty high for this type of stuff in recent years (post "Matrix") and you've got to really work the edit to sell a fight.

[R.L. Scott]

I've God some great choreographers coming in from China named Fabien Garcia and Lohan. the film will be done differently... more prep.

[Steve Sherrick]

So, we've all learned the dangers of over-hyping!

Now, knowing what this actually is at this point, the one critique I would offer to take going into the real deal is:

If you're going to do this kind of highly choreographed fake dance fighting, you're going to have to cover the hell out of it and really punch-up the editing for the viewer to feel any visceral impact. The bar has been set pretty high for this type of stuff in recent years (post "Matrix") and you've got to really work the edit to sell a fight.

Maybe, although in some instances I would say things have become overly slick, with cut after cut after cut in such rapid succession that it can actually become boring. Need substance along with fast action. Smart timing, interesting angles, personality, etc all go into good fight sequences.

Steve

[Ruairi Robinson]

Hmm... a few notes on action scenes, if you'll permit me...

1) goals and obstacles. We have to be clear at all times about what each character is trying to achieve in the fight. (if it's just to beat up the other guy, then there is zero emotional connection for the audience - they aren't characters, they are props) This works on multiple scales from the top down "rescue the president and escape the city" to the macro level "get the gun off bad guy"

2) anticipation and follow through are just as important as the blows themselves...

3) space relationships and geography need to be clearly established. Long lens shakeycam means you can cut anything to anything else, and you don't have to worry about continuity, but it also means nobody knows what the fuck is going on because nobody knows how anything relates in space. Since you haven't shot it this way, this means the geography is ultra important.

4) words like edgy, slick, visceral impact, "working the edit" are all meaningless buzzwords. Coverage is irrevant in shooting action - PLANNING is everything. Coverage is when you have no idea what you want, and you dump footage on an editors lap in the hope they can pull a story out somehow. Hence the widespread use of long lens shakeycam in fights these days. Beats planning!

Anyway, that's off the top of my head... best of luck with your film!

R.

[Joel Kaye]

Hmm... a few notes on action scenes, if you'll permit me...


Nice post. I thought this topic deserved it's own thread so I started one here:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=119155

[BENTrandom]

Having read this whole thread and knowing what the demo/short is I have one thing to say.
Thank god it wasn't a nasty blur of colors and sound. You may not have had the time or money to get the fight done properly but at least I can see what is going on in it. That's more than I can say for a slew of recent Hollywood action movies.
Good luck.

[R.L. Scott]

thanks Bent, we are in rehearsals and fight choreo right now and will begin shooting in Febuary, finishing in March.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

thanks Bent, we are in rehearsals and fight choreo right now and will begin shooting in Febuary, finishing in March.

Hi,

A bit of constructive criticism. I know you said they were all amateurs but something that I think that your little film showed quite clearly, which is good to think about - Is that it's important to really direct the acting during fight scenes as well. No offense here, but the acting was appalling by all of them at all times. I know you had budget and time restraints but see it as a lesson learnt. At least I think that's something to think about and learn from.

Cheers,


fred

[R.L. Scott]

they are not amateurs, but I do agree that I didn't focus enough on the performances as a whole. thanks for the criticism Fred.