Tripod, what to buy

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

Hello.
I need to buy a tripod soon. And i want to buy something that i can use with the Red One.
Right now i have a manfrotto 510 (i think the new version is called 518) which is quite nice if the camera weights less than 4 or 5 Kgs.

So any recommendations that you might have?

Note: i dont have the money for an O´connor 2575c :)

[tj williams]

Hi Macgregor.
This type of question is probably better answered on any of the cine. forums.
Red one is different than other cameras that you might buy only in that it might be configured in a wider variety of weights. Tripos selection depends on use and budget. If you can't afford a 2575 and intend to configure the red in a large heavy way maybe you should consider the O'conner 100 which is the classic B camera head in low budget.

[Martin Drew]

For anyone to give really helpful recommendations you probably should say how you intend to use the camera and what additional kit you will be using with it. With the RedOne you could be shooting wildlife for documentary with an S16 lens, or a feature film with a 35mm zoom and 6x6 mattebox. The RedOne will find uses across a wide range of applications and each is likely to have very different constraints.

M

[Jeff Kilgroe]

We already had a big thread here on tripods.... There were a few suggestion, but the general consensus was that waiting until Red is delivered and configured would be best. It seemed that the O'Connor 1030 and 2060 heads were nominated for top honors. I'm seriously considering an O'Connor 1030, but I will wait and see how my Cartoni Focus head performs. I just had my Focus replaced under warranty after it started to fail under moderate use with an HVX200. So I'm a bit skeptical there... OTOH, even though my use was moderate, my usage conditions/environment are probably atpypical. Lots of cold weather use here (well below freezing), blowing snow, etc..

If you need a tripod right now, I would suggest looking around various sites for reviews and discussions. But it seems like O'Connor, Sachtler, Miller, Cartoni all keep getting recommended. Go look at a few and demo some. And I would make sure that whatever you buy will perform well with what you have now as well as any camera ranging from about 10lbs up to 25lbs. That should get you pretty close for RED. I wouldn't recommend buying a tripod system that's rated to hold up to the 25lbs or so - you'll be pushing its limits at some point and most fluid heads perform best with weight that falls comfortably below their limit.

[PaulClements]

What about Manfrotto's 519 fluid head, looks quite good at $860. It lists it as HD and can hold upto 22lbs. I would've thought the advantages of the lightweight of RedOne made it better for use with HD accessories rather than the expensive film equivilents such as O'Connor, Cartoni etc, seems a little overkill perhaps? In your opinions why would something such as the 519 be bad to use rather than spending 5 times as much on the O'Connor or Cartoni? What benefits do you get or lose from either one?

519 LINK at BH (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=3918&A=details&Q=&sku=341506&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation)

[Stephen Williams]

Hi All,

I would wait till you have your Red camera & Lenses before choosing a tripod head. Once your camera is delivered go to your local dealer or rental house and play for a few hours. Only then will you really know.

Stephen

[PaulClements]

Hi Stephen, I'm not entirely convinced there are a great many places near where I live that either have or will allow me to spend a few hours testing all of their tripods and fluid heads. That's kind of why I was wondering what in the opinion of users that have used these before would they say the benefit was of spending 5 times the ammount on a product. Lets just say that if, in theory, the RedOne setup is less than the stated allowance on a tripod such as the Manfrotto 519 fluid head and 3190 Tripod at 22lbs, why would anyone choose to spend upward of $6000 on a system such as O'connor and Cartoni? What would make it worth that much more?

And is there not a topic to be discussed here in that the camera's size and weight is less than a loaded film camera and therefore perhaps doesn't necessarily require such hefty fluid heads or tripods to weild it sufficiently for desired effects?

As someone pointed out there are other threads about this but they do all seem to be wait and see rather than anyone giving the exact reasons for choosing an established professional name over something like the bogen/manfrotto setups.

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Stephen, I'm not entirely convinced there are a great many places near where I live that either have or will allow me to spend a few hours testing all of their tripods and fluid heads. That's kind of why I was wondering what in the opinion of users that have used these before would they say the benefit was of spending 5 times the ammount on a product. Lets just say that if, in theory, the RedOne setup is less than the stated allowance on a tripod such as the Manfrotto 519 fluid head and 3190 Tripod at 22lbs, why would anyone choose to spend upward of $6000 on a system such as O'connor and Cartoni? What would make it worth that much more?

And is there not a topic to be discussed here in that the camera's size and weight is less than a loaded film camera and therefore perhaps doesn't necessarily require such hefty fluid heads or tripods to weild it sufficiently for desired effects?

As someone pointed out there are other threads about this but they do all seem to be wait and see rather than anyone giving the exact reasons for choosing an established professional name over something like the bogen/manfrotto setups.


Hi Paul,

If you will have a light set up with Nikon lenses, then the Cartoni Focus (head only) $799 is hard to beat. Problem is the cost will soar from there and you could easily spend $6000 on a new head.

FWIW old Occonner 50 & 100 heads go very cheap on Ebay, if they are in good condition worth about $1000 IMHO.

Stephen

[PaulClements]

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the reply. I edited my other thread but thought I'd repost because you probably missed this answering the last one:

Perhaps this would be a good one to begin with LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=5136&A=details&Q=&sku=408412&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation)
The fluid head can hold 30lbs, the legs can hold 66lbs and are suitable for jib arms and it costs $1700 for the head and tripod.

Possible weight of setup:

RedOne: 8lbs
Cine Lense: 10lbs
Battery: 6lbs
RedDrive: 2lbs
Rails: 4lbs

Total: 30lbs

The above weights are estimates based on existing products and are infact slightly generous in each case. The Cine Lense for example is quite heavy and was based on a Cooke 20-100mm (Big Lense) at 9.35lbs (Hopefully that is correct).

I understand why anyone would say use the best, but for those looking for a cheaper solution that wouldn't exactly hamper their creativity a great deal, why would this not be as useful as a 2nd hand old O'connor.

Thanks, Paul

[Billy Summers]

Maybe a lighter, smaller, cheaper fluid head will do the trick with minimal accessories. But imagine you happened to be hired as DP for a big commercial or feature project. Your going to need the right lenses, follow focus, matte-box w/filters, on-camera monitor/LCD, power supply, Data-Storage, handheld setup etc.

This, or similiar set-ups could tend to get pretty heavy... I don't know like 25-30lbs or more.

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the reply. I edited my other thread but thought I'd repost because you probably missed this answering the last one:

Perhaps this would be a good one to begin with LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=5136&A=details&Q=&sku=408412&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation)
The fluid head can hold 30lbs, the legs can hold 66lbs and are suitable for jib arms and it costs $1700 for the head and tripod.

Possible weight of setup:

RedOne: 8lbs
Cine Lense: 10lbs
Battery: 6lbs
RedDrive: 2lbs
Rails: 4lbs

Total: 30lbs

The above weights are estimates based on existing products and are infact slightly generous in each case. The Cine Lense for example is quite heavy and was based on a Cooke 20-100mm (Big Lense) at 9.35lbs (Hopefully that is correct).

I understand why anyone would say use the best, but for those looking for a cheaper solution that wouldn't exactly hamper their creativity a great deal, why would this not be as useful as a 2nd hand old O'connor.

Thanks, Paul


Hi Paul,

As a rule of thumb work in the middle of the recomended range. For a 30 lbs load I would look for a head that is recomended at 40-45 lbs. I would recomend upto 22lbs for a head with a max of 30lbs.

I know the price sky rockets, that's where the O'conner 50 comes in.

Stephen

[Chris Kenny]

Maybe a lighter, smaller, cheaper fluid head will do the trick with minimal accessories. But imagine you happened to be hired as DP for a big commercial or feature project. Your going to need the right lenses, follow focus, matte-box w/filters, on-camera monitor/LCD, power supply, Data-Storage, handheld setup etc.

This, or similiar set-ups could tend to get pretty heavy... I don't know like 25-30lbs or more.

Yeah, but in that scenario you're probably going to be making a trip to the rental house anyway (most owner-operators won't own everything they'd need for a major production), so just rent a more serious tripod head while you're there. Unless you're doing jobs like this all the time, or you need something that can support a heavy camera rig for your own everyday use of the camera, it probably doesn't make sense to buy.

[Stephen Williams]

Yeah, but in the scenario you're probably going to be making a trip to the rental house anyway (most owner-operators won't own everything they'd need for a major production), so just rent a more serious tripod head while you're there.

Hi Chris,

I agree with you!:)

Stephen

[Holosynthetic]

How much is the O'connor 2060HD selling for?

[PaulClements]

How much is the O'connor 2060HD selling for?

$7500

[PaulClements]

Going back and looking again the manfrotto 526 is actually 35lbs with the tripod at 66lbs for $1700

LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=5136&A=details&Q=&sku=408412&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#Head)

The head bought alone is $1440 and the tripod alone is $620 so buying both together at $1700 looks like quite a good deal. How much more than 35lb do most people think is needed.

Thanks for the replies.

Paul

[Holosynthetic]

$7500

this does include both the head and tripod yes?

[PaulClements]

this does include both the head and tripod yes?

No just the head:

LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=3918&A=details&Q=&sku=404748&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation)

Tripod will be about $2000 ontop of that

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi All,

I would wait till you have your Red camera & Lenses before choosing a tripod head. Once your camera is delivered go to your local dealer or rental house and play for a few hours. Only then will you really know.

Stephen

Stephen,

thanks,

the best advice.

[Brook Willard]

[fires away]

[Brian Ferguson]

Hiya folks...
There are two threads here about heads... I am heading up this part of the Red configuration support issue. We are investigating this in house as the parts come together and we figure out weight, balance, etc. You might want to go to this thread...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=590&page=2

Hope this helps.

[Billy Summers]

Yeah, but in that scenario you're probably going to be making a trip to the rental house anyway (most owner-operators won't own everything they'd need for a major production), so just rent a more serious tripod head while you're there. Unless you're doing jobs like this all the time, or you need something that can support a heavy camera rig for your own everyday use of the camera, it probably doesn't make sense to buy.


GOOD POINT!:)

but how many accessories will you buy for your camera?
and how much is all that going to end up weighing?

[Pig]

Hello.
I need to buy a tripod soon. And i want to buy something that i can use with the Red One.
Right now i have a manfrotto 510 (i think the new version is called 518) which is quite nice if the camera weights less than 4 or 5 Kgs.

macgregor, if you need something soon, check out the Bogen 526 with some 528XB legs. That is not much money (~$1700.00) and should handle the Red pretty well. No, not an O'Connor, but quite nice.

Here's a link for ya:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=408412&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

[Blaine Golden]

I love my Cartoni Focus but if it turns out to be too small for RED, I'll probably give them the first look. Not exclusive, but first.

[Ralph Oshiro]

My favorite head is Vinten. Sachtler is great, but expensive.

[Blaine Golden]

Outfitting is definitely going to be a difficult decision making process.

[PaulClements]

macgregor, if you need something soon, check out the Bogen 526 with some 528XB legs. That is not much money (~$1700.00) and should handle the Red pretty well. No, not an O'Connor, but quite nice.

Here's a link for ya:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=408412&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Hi Pig,

I brought this setup up earlier in the thread, I was wondering... Have you actually used this or do you know of any good reliable reviews or comparisons. I know it's aimed at the the High end ENG EFP market, but I look at the RedOne's size and weight as possibly falling into that category rather than it's heavier film counterparts in some respects. From a small indie budget point of view it looks to make a fair bit of sense.

Thanks

Paul

[Pig]

Re: Bogen 526 & 528XB legs

Tried the combo at NAB2006. Had a 2/3" cam on it. It was a VERY impressive performance!
Felt much better than Vinten or Miller equivalents.

[PaulClements]

Thanks alot Pig, from what I can see at the moment it certainly sounds like a possible budget alternative, the 1030HD from O'connor only holds 4lbs more and some people are touting that as a viable option for Red One setups.

Comparisons (From a spec viewpoint and not an actual comparison):

O = O'Connor 1030HD Fluid Head Packaged with tripod (Link (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=3918&A=details&Q=&sku=447432&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation))

M = Manfrotto 528XB Heavy Duty Tripod with 526 Fluid Head (Link (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=5136&A=details&Q=&sku=408412&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation))

Price:
O = $5100
M = $1700

Load Capacity:
O = 39lbs
M = 35lbs

Counter Balance System:
O = Dual-Axis Sinusoidal
M = Adjustable Spring

Tilt Range:
O = -90° to +90°
M = -70° to +70°

Tilt/Pan Drag:
O = Continuously variable fluid
M = 0 plus three step

Tilt Lock/Pan Lock:
O = Yes/Not Specified
M = Independent/Independent

Temperature Range:
O = -40 to +60°C
M = -20°C +60°C

Warranty:
O = 5 Years
M = 2 Years

Otherwise I believe most other specs are equivilent with the only other question on build quality and durability. Would love to hear from anyone that's used both of them and can give us some first hand feedback.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks alot Pig, from what I can see at the moment it certainly sounds like a possible budget alternative, the 1030HD from O'connor only holds 4lbs more and some people are touting that as a viable option for Red One setups.

Good general spec comparison. The Bogen/Manfrotto 526 may fit the bill for a lot of people.

Be careful using that Manfrotto head outdoors in cold weather! It's surprisingly only rated to -20C/-4F, that's not great at all. In fact, that'scould be problematic for anyone shooting winter sports or any other activity in the cold/snow with a potential wind chill. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid because -10F was enough to screw up my Cartoni Focus head that's rated for colder weather than that.

That aside and if the limited tilt angles and adjustment steps don't bother you, this could be a nice tripod/head combo for a tighter budget.

The OConnor 1030 still has my vote for the heads that I've tried, but I would still like to test drive a Panther. I may take a look at this Manfrotto 526 head, but I need cold weather performance and would prefer the increased tilt and motion adjustments.

[Pig]

In fact, that'scould be problematic for anyone shooting winter sports or any other activity in the cold/snow with a potential wind chill.

http://fog.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p100132dt.jpg


:)

[PaulClements]

I may take a look at this Manfrotto 526 head, but I need cold weather performance and would prefer the increased tilt and motion adjustments.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on it AV, if and when you do. Personally I have no experience to compare it to so I rely on those who do to tell me the pro's and con's of choosing the cheaper option.

When you say "-10F was enough to screw up my Cartoni Focus head" what actually happens to it when it's that cold? Does it just seize up? and is it fine once it is back in a suitable temprature or does it leave lasting damage?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

http://fog.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p100132dt.jpg

Yeah, a few of those and some string to tie 'em on. ...Problem solved. ;)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

When you say "-10F was enough to screw up my Cartoni Focus head" what actually happens to it when it's that cold? Does it just seize up? and is it fine once it is back in a suitable temprature or does it leave lasting damage?

I spent 2 days in -10F (about 6 hours each day) with my Focus and then did it again at -5F a couple days later. Immediately in the cold temperature on that third day, the head would no longer hold its position and would slowly sag or drift with the weight of the camera on it (HVX200 with no additional lenses or gear in this case). I was trying to do a timelapse sunrise and it wouldn't cooperate and within minutes the camera would go from pointing at the horizon to pointing at the dirt. Taking the camera off and playing with the head showed that there was very little resistance to any directional movement and it felt "sloppy" or like none of the components were fitting together properly anymore. Like it was worn out.

After taking the head back inside and letting it adjust to room temps (about 68F), everything seemed fine again. It would adjust, everything felt OK moving the head alone. As soon as I mounted the camera back onto it, it still felt a bit sloppy. But it would hold position, it just wasn't right. I attemtped to contact Cartoni (their support request is e-mail only on their web site -- never got a response). I contacted Ste-Mann, the US distributor and they had me send it in for repair/replace. I don't know what they ever determined or anything like that... But I received a brand new Focus head in exactly 1 week from when I handed my broken one to the FedEx guy.

I haven't had it out in the cold since then. I've only had the replacement for a couple weeks now and it's been warmer here, in the 40's and 50's -- at least until today, about 15F right now, probably won't get much colder than that with this current storm or until next winter, but who knows really. I'm planning to sell the Focus head & Cartoni sticks in favor of something like the OConnor 1030 to use with RED.

Anyway, that's all there is to say about that... I really like the Focus head and I was very, very pleased with it for the last 10 months or so that I've owned it, right up until it failed. The cold was the only thing I could figure that would cause it to fail in the way it did. I never abused it or used it excessively -- maybe 8 hours/week on average and it was only out in the cold on occasion. Those two days at -10 were not typical - usually it's more like +10 or warmer if I'm shooting snowboarding or other such things. If we have blowing snow or significant moisture, I usually cover the tripod and have the HVX in a rain slicker.

[Steve Gibby]

Jeff, by process of elimination with your Focus head problem, either it was a unique problem with that particular head, or it indicates that Focus heads aren't made for -10 Fahrenheit work. I haven't heard other similar complaints about Focus heads, so maybe you just had one that wasn't happy in the cold.

Having directed and shot a lot of action sports programs in extreme environments, I've seen tripod heads take a real beating. Some take it well. For example, I was on the ESPN, Fox, NBC, and OLN crews that covered the pro snowboarding tours worldwide for several years. We shot with Betacam SP equipment, switching to Digi Beta and DVCPro50 later on. Occasionally we'd use Satchler tripods, but more than anything else we used Vinten. On a typical shooting day we'd setup on the mountain early in the morning, sometimes when it was as cold as -30 degrees Fahrenheit. I never remember a Vinten failing in those conditions. Right after that shoot, we would leave for tropical shoots in Hawaii, Fiji, and the Caribbean to cover pro water sports tours (surfing, sailboarding, etc.), and use the same Vinten tripods in 90-degree heat and tropical rains - uncovered. I don't remember having a Vinten fail in those conditions either. We'd beat them to death year in and year out, and they'd still work fine! They were the mid-sized Vinton tripods, rated for around 28 pounds, because we often had to hike long ways with a camera, tripod and backpack.

I've also had good luck in adventure travel, action sports, and doco shooting with Satchler tripods. For heavier, more stationary work I've often used O'Connor, with very good results.

I do a wide range of production genres, so one tripod simply won't work for all of them. I'll probably buy a Miller Solo #1514, with carbon fiber sticks, for mobile work with lighter weight RED one equipment/lens setups, and perhaps a mid range (up to 35 lbs rating) Vinten or Satchler for the rest. When I need to load up my RED One cameras, and the production will be more stationary, I'll rent an O'Connor on a per project basis. For heavier systems, I've also heard good reports about the Vinten Vision 100 heads/tripods, which have a payload range of 15 to 44 lbs.

This all fits my career-long motto: "Buy what you will use regularly, and rent the rest on a per project basis". I buy used, reconditioned equipment whenever possible.

Others needs may be different depending on the types of projects they do. I think it would be wise to hold off on buying new tripods until RED One ships and we can test it on various tripods with different weight loads of accessories/lenses.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks for the comments, Gibby!

Yeah, my Focus head may have been a bum unit or they may just not handle the cold all that well. I don't know. But like I said, I really like the Focus head and outside of it taking a dump on me a few weeks ago, it's been great - especially for the price. Head with 2-stage carbon sticks and soft bag was right at $1100.

I do shoot snowboard events on occasion, I'm not following tours or anything like that, but it's more promotional or commercial video work for some of the local board manufacturers. Other than that, I tend to just do a lot of shooting year round in various conditions for my own purposes. :)

I'm planning to buy one tripod setup that will serve most of my general day to day use. So far, I'm liking the OConnor 1030 as I gave one a test drive. I've looked at Miller and Vinten at the local shop/rental house, but I plan to also give them a more thorough look before making a final decision. Input from guys like you is really helpful too. :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

OK, I'm resurrecting this thread...

I was going to hold out for the RED ONE, but I'm in a bind. I need to pick up a new tripod system and want something pretty good. Ideally, I'd like the O'Connor 2060 head, but the budget for it just isn't here at the moment. So, if anyone wants to chime in with suggestions, I'm listening. I need something that has a load rating of at least 30lbs, preferably 40lbs or more. And the budget is $5500 or less.

I'm seriously thinking I'm going to just order that Bogen 526 head with the 538XB stix package from B&H. At $1699, I don't see how I'm going to beat it and that way, I can still try and use it with my RED ONE (it supports 39lbs I think). And perhaps later this year I can spring for the O'Connor 2060 head.

Anyone care to comment? Anyone know of any good deals on used/refurb heads anywhere? I'd just go for the O'Connor 1030, as it will work just great now, but I don't know if it will handle a full RED setup. I'd hate to spend all that money now only to replace it in 7 months. That's why that Bogen kit is so attractive at the moment.

[Pig]

I'm seriously thinking I'm going to just order that Bogen 526 head with the 538XB stix package from B&H. At $1699, I don't see how I'm going to beat it and that way, I can still try and use it with my RED ONE (it supports 39lbs I think).

A good choice, me thinks.
But in any event, you should probably go try it out first yourself. I have the tripod's predecessor, the Manfrotto 132XB, and those sticks are SOLID. Flex? I don't think so.
The 526 head was the highlight at NAB 2006 for me....wait, no, there was this cam that was the highlight...can't remember the name now, but it had a color as its name... :tongue:

The 528XB, by the way, is not very transportation friendly; that is to say, it is quite bulky and not light. However, I checked out another combo that Bogen/Manfrotto offered with the 526 at NAB2006, and it was a joke. That 526 head demands SOLID sticks, and the 528XB sure are that.

It's a totally underrated piece IMO; and for $1600 a real steal. A shame some apparently reject the Bogen/Manfrotto brand as being "non-professional", as it [526+528XB] really is deserving of praise.
The 526 is on our shopping list...

[PaulClements]

One thing you might consider Jeff is the resale value of the O'connor over the Manfrotto, then again the ammount you might lose reselling it might cover the cost of buying the whole manfrotto setup.

I'm seriously considering buying the Manfrotto myself and it would be great to hear your opinions on it with a similarly weighted setup to that expected of RedOne. The Manfrotto setup is aimed at the high end heavy ENG/EFP market, but in my opinion that's the kind of size and weight that RedOne is more comparible to than film cameras.

I don't see why this shouldn't work out too well and if you did choose to upgrade in a few months when you get your Red I'd buy it off you for $1300 :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks, Pig. Are there any other sticks to recommend? Reading the specs, I was figuring it to not be transport friendly, which will probably be OK for this setup. Considering the head alone is $1500 and B&H is throwing in the sticks for another $200 (vs. $600 for sticks alone) I don't see how I can go wrong.

I'm going to order the 526+528XB combo. If I don't like it, I'll send it back in favor of something else.

Paul, I'll definitely let you know how it works out. You'll have your RED before me I think with your #445, so I probably won't be ready to trade this tripod system in at that time.

Anyway, after losing one Cartoni head already and now I have two projects starting that will use the tripod system continuously, I need a new one. I've sold the Cartoni Focus system I had and this time around its 22lb capacity wasn't going to cut it anyway. I'd try to tough it out and rent a tripod until my RED shows up, but I just can't... The local shops have O'Connor 1030, Vinten Vision 11 and some Miller offerings that fit the bill. But at $125/day for most 30lb+ tripod systems, (that seems high to me), it makes no sense. After two weeks of use, I've already paid for the Bogen kit and the projects I'm starting will take 4 to 5 weeks to complete.

[Holosynthetic]

I'll be honest for a minute and say I don't know much about equipment, so in the coming months I might be asking a lot of questions regarding what to get etc. so if you could bare with me I would be grateful. In this case I'm wondering what makes a tripod better or worse? I hear about the O'connor as being one of the best from a lot on here, but what makes it the best? for a fluid head $7400+ (2060) I have to question what does that money buy that makes the system even worth that much? for a system that pans and tilts a camera, something which seems not all that technical, how do you rate which is better?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

For fluid heads what makes one better is typically a combination of things. Construction quality, load capacity, how easy it is to adjust drag and how many potential settings, how easy it is to repeat a setup, ergonomics in terms of balance, how well the arm attaches and allows the operator to make camera moves... It's just a matter of which unit is "better" and much of this is subjective.

When shopping for a head or tripod system, go to some of the local shops and try some out. Have them mount a camera system comparable in weight and size to what you're using (or bring yours along). You may find that you prefer an O'Connor over another brand or that you really like Vinten.

As for price, fluid heads are one section of the market that is truly overpriced. A huge problem is the majority of large vendors (O'Connor, Sachtler, Vinten) are all owned by Vinten and its parent company. There's some price fixing going on... Other companies like Cartoni are selling some of their products cheaper, but only just.

I really liked my Cartoni Focus head until it failed. They replaced it under warranty, no questions, sent me a new one. But I'm moving on, it won't fit my needs over the next couple months, let alone when my RED ONE arrives. Besides, I think the cold combined with having it maxed is what did it in. I re-added the weights of my gear and I was right at 18lbs. In severe cold for a few days straight on a 22lb rated head, that may have something to do with the failure. Anyway, here I am. going for that Bogen 526 kit. We'll see how it works out. I'd prefer the O'Connor 2060 -- I've rented it before and played with it on several occasions. I love that head. But my current tripod budget is about $5K, or less than the 2060 head alone. And I've searched in vain for the last few days trying to find a used one.

[PaulClements]

I'm going to order the 526+528XB combo. If I don't like it, I'll send it back in favor of something else.

Paul, I'll definitely let you know how it works out. You'll have your RED before me I think with your #445, so I probably won't be ready to trade this tripod system in at that time.

Great Stuff Jeff, I look forward to your review. I was only joking about buying it off of you anyway (Although if you were selling it and I needed it then I'd be interested of course :))

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hey that's OK. I still haven't ordered it... I'm trying to haggle a better rental deal from a local shop before I just blow $1700. I'd probably do better buying and then re-selling, but I'd rather just go pick up the tripod, use it and return it and hope I can get by for $1K or less.

I need the new tripod system to actualy be here next week, preferably so I can start using it on thursday/friday. So I'll have to make up my mind here pretty quick.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

OK, here's the update on the tripod...

I did order the Bogen/Manfrotto 526 head w/528XB legs combo -- it includes a bag too, btw, which the B&H site doesn't specify. Anyway, B&H called to inform me that it's actually out of stock and will take another 7 to 10 days for them to get it in stock and then it ships to me. Wasn't going to work... Because of their pricing with Bogen, they couldn't sell me the head and sticks and the bag (all in stock as separate items) as the same discount bundle. Oh well... They did make me the offer of 15% off any tripod legs and bag I bought to go with the 526 head. Not a bad deal, but I couldn't come up with anything (that they actually had in stock, which is like nothing) that would fit my needs and the budget I've set. Since I'm going with the cheaper 526 head, I wanted to keep this as a cheaper kit since it's an interim solution..

So, I did some more searching and thinking and happened to do a search on nextag for the 526. And Amazon.com has the same kit for the same price plus free shipping - should've checked there to begin with. 3 left in stock it said, so I ordered on there. Should have it in a few days and will let everyone know what I think.

[Ivan G]

The O'Connor 2060 is an amazing head. I've been checking it out for past week. It's a decision between the Vinten Vision 11 and the O'Connor 1030. However B&H doesn't stock O'Connor and all sales are final :huh:

[Finner]

Abu

Make sure you get the 1030HD or whatever they are calling the heavier weight capacity 1030 now. It does not cost that much more but takes quite a bit more weight.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, I'm lovin the O'Connor heads - my favorite of all the ones I've tried. I just couldn't squeeze one into the budget on short notice and I didn't want to spend that much before I get my RED setup and before NAB. I almost bought a Vision 11 package from B&H with the 2-stage CF sticks, carry case, mid-level spreader. It's about $6,500. But I'm concerned that a fully loaded RED may get to 35lbs or so and put a real strain on these heads.... So I think this Bogen will work for starters... I'm also glad that I ordered from Amazon too -- if the Bogen kit is junk I can send it back and not pay that nasty 15% restock fee from B&H.

If the Bogen is junk, then I'm probably going to just say fk it and go for the Vinten Vision 100. It's about $1K more than the Vision 11 for a complete package, but then I can support any camera system up to 44lbs and that should prove to be a nice comfortable limit for the RED ONE. Other than that, the Vision 11, Cartoni Delta and O'Connor 1030 are all great, but top out at 35 to 39lbs. ...If I could afford $10K for a tripod system, I would just get the O'Connor 2060 and some really nice stix to go with it, a nice spreader, padded bag and some other goodies.

[Ivan G]

Abu

Make sure you get the 1030HD or whatever they are calling the heavier weight capacity 1030 now. It does not cost that much more but takes quite a bit more weight.

1030HD 39lbs or 1030HDS 53lbs

Similar to the 1030HD, the 1030HDS has a greater load bearing ability, but with a reduced tilt range of -60° to +60°

Finner, so your suggesting the HDS?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Make sure you get the 1030HD or whatever they are calling the heavier weight capacity 1030 now. It does not cost that much more but takes quite a bit more weight.

There's the 1030HD and the 1030HDS. The 'S' model supports about 14lbs more, but you compromise the tilt range -- it's only +/-60 instead of +/-90. Other than that, they're are identical. Oh and the 'S' model is about $550 more.

<edit> Abu beat me to it... :)

[Ivan G]

:bleh:

[Ivan G]

Dam!!! Now it's the decision between +/-60 or +/-90 I think a -90 pan and up looks sweet!

[Finner]

1030HD 39lbs or 1030HDS 53lbs

Similar to the 1030HD, the 1030HDS has a greater load bearing ability, but with a reduced tilt range of -60° to +60°

Finner, so your suggesting the HDS?

Thats a tough decision I was not aware of the tilt reduction factor.

my advice for what it is, is wait for NAB. There has been a bunch of little hints on this site by key people that seem to know quite a bit that we should wait till NAB. People in the RED loop of information have hinted to wait for both software and hardware camera support products because there will be a bit of a surprise. I have a feeling there could be a bunch of companies teaming up with red to offer support equipment at a fair price.

[RedMagent]

Plus, if you are going you can try all of your opions out and see what works best for you.

[Ralph Oshiro]

The O'Connor 2060 is an amazing head. I've been checking it out for past week. It's a decision between the Vinten Vision 11 and the O'Connor 1030. However B&H doesn't stock O'Connor and all sales are final :huh:Have you actually tried operating with Vinten Vision heads? I think they're awesome! I love their drag system--much different from Sachtler. No matter what drag you set, you can always pull off a whip pan, if needed. I mean, Sachtlers are arguably the best, IMO, but I prefer the Vintens. I use Sachtlers at work for our BVW600s, but bought a used Vinten Vision 5 for only $1,000, for my full-sized, 15-lb. Sony DSR450.

[Ivan G]

I purchased the Sachtler DV 8/100 SB Fluid Head. Believe it or not I wasn't to crazy about it. However, I did get a chance to visit the Vinten booth a few years back at NAB. I was impressed with their products.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'll second Ralph's opinion of Vinten! I've really been checking out the Vision 11 and Vision 100 heads / systems. When they told me the cheap Bogen kit was out of stock, I almost went for a Vision 11 package (even though it blows my currrent budget by $1500). The Vision 100 would be the Vinten to get, but that starts pushing $7500 with the head, sticks mid-level spreader... But we'll see what the Bogen is like. Even though it's only $1700, I have this sick feeling like I just bought a real turd and I'm not too confident about the whole thing. But it should hold me until NAB and hopefully until I get my RED (August if my prediction holds up).

Of all the heads I've tried lately in the local shop, the O'Connors are still my favorite. The shop had an XLH1 mounted with a mini35, rods, mattebox, follow-focus, 7" monitor. I was ready to buy that 2060 package until they quoted me just under $11K ($7400 for the head, $2600 legs, plus other goodies). The O'Coonors are so silky smooth and the continuous adjustments work the same every time. The Vintens are a close second. They have a nearly continuous drag system, technically it's 9 levels, but you can dial in between. I wasn't as impressed with the Sachtler or Miller heads, but I think I like the Sachtler tripod legs the best. I'd like to try some of the nicer Cartoni heads (Delta, etc..), but no local shops stock them - special order only.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Well, UPS has amazed me... They delivered that Bogn 526/528XB kit just now. Not only did Amazon ship it 2-day air for free, UPS brought it from KY to CO and delivered it in less than a day. sweeeeet...

Anyway, I'm going to go unpack it and set it up. I'll report back. I'll take some pictures and whatnot too I guess.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

My initial impression of the 526/528XB combo...

IT'S CRAP! ...more to come in a bit.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

OK, I was going to write up a detailed review, take pictures and all that, but honestly it's not worth it. If anyone wants to see pictures of the 526/528XB combo kit, let me know I'll snap a few before I box it up monday morning.

This package is complete shite. That's the nicest I can put it, but I'll elaborate with a mini-review.

The good:

Cosmetically, the 526 head looks pretty good. It doesn't have that beefy, robust, rugged quality look of the bigger Sachtler or O'Connor heads, but it looks good. The 100mm bowl mount works as it should and even though the spirit level isn't illuminated, it's still easy to see and level-up the head before tightening it down, it has a nice rubberized grip to tighten the bowl clamp which is easy to work with and nicer than some of the steel or aluminum shaft I've used on some other heads in the past. Directional locks for pan and tilt work as they should and do lock the head/camera firmly in place. fluid motion for panning horizontally is smooth all the way around the full 360 degrees and very consistant. However, it doesn't allow for a whip-pan type action and tends to tighten if forced if moved too quickly.

As for the 528XB tripod... It's solid built, decent mid-level spreader is included, the end shafts with rubber feet can be flipped over for heavy duty steel spikes.

The carrying bag included is nice. Holds the legs, head and there's an internal zippered pouch for pan-bar and other goodies. It dual nylon strap handles on each side of zippered opening that velcro together. There's also a shoulder strap that can be detached or adjusted. The spreader has 5 steps to it's teloscoping arms... so that's handy.

The bad:

Fluid drag only has four settings -- 0=totally off, 1=low, 2=medium, 3=high... Setting #3 should also be known as the must weight-down tripod with sandbags setting, because you'll push the tripod over if you're not careful, even with 20lbs of crap mounted on the head. With the drag system off, it's free motion. Panning is smooth most of the way around, but as you come full circle, it catches or rubs slightly and consistantly in the same spot as you continuously rotate 360 degrees. Doesn't matter if you rotate clockwise or counter. The tilt isn't as smooth as the pan by far, with or without the drag. The internal spring system gains tension the farther you tilt the head and more so tilting forward than back. There is a tension control knob that shifts spring tension front to back or back to front to help counter-balance your camera gear. I found it is nearly impossible to turn this knob in most situations, and I often felt as if I was going to break something by turning it. The trick is to find the point where spring tension between front and back is relatively even and turn the knob slowly as you tilt the head to keep spring tension constant. But even with that, I can't see any effects of this tension control, or at least not with any significant amount of gear mounted. With just the stock HVX and nothing else or with an empty head, the tension does have an effect. The pan bar is cheap and crappy and uses plastic ring clamps with a thumb screw to tighten the clamps and hold pieces in place. I can see where over time these will easily wear and become non-functional.... Deliberately cheap and poor design for the pan bar as well as the lock-down mechanism for the quick-release plate.

The tripod is excessively heavy. All stainless steel construction, the spreader is a bit weak for this level of tripod and so is the plastic top piece/bowl mount with leg hinges. The inner leg pipes that telescope out are locked into place by a locking knob or thumb screw that simply applies pressure against the pipe. These inner pipes aren't all that thick either. I wouldn't trust the locking knobs with a full 30lbs of camera gear on this thing and obviously Manfrotto felt the same way. There are holes in the internal pipes at about 8" increments and they give you a solid-steel pin attached to each leg by a thin steel cable. The pin is to go through these leg holes as a safety measure or even as a means of support and then the lock knobs are there just to aid in holding position. The reversable feet are relatively weak at the point where the rubber foot piece is attatched to the steel spike. It's a thin piece of stamped steel bent into a tube shape and open 1/8" along the side. if this tripod were dropped onto the rubber feet or spikes (even in it's bag), it could pop the feet or spikes out of this metal holding piece. Another example of just crappy design. One of my rubber feet was loose, but I fixed that with some water-pump pliers and a dishrag (so as not to scuff up the metal piece). Did I mention this tripod is heavy? It is, tripod legs and head in the bag weigh 34lbs. And it's 48" long. Not exactly the most portable unit, but I knew that going into it.

The ugly:

Oh where to begin... Let's pick up with the quick-release plate. The anti-rotation pin is loose and sloppy and is pushed into place by a thin spring. There's hardly enough force there to even consider it functional. Even with the 1/4" screw titghtened down as far as I'm willing to crank it, the anti-rotation pin fails to firmly hold the HVX from shifting slightly on the front if pushed on without much force. I don't foresee this as a huge issue, but it is something representative of the overall quality of this unit. The plate slides onto the head from the front or rear and another wimpy-ass spring latches in to keep the plate from sliding all the way out on either side (uh, yeah, right). Balancing the camera is accomplished by turning the tilt drag to 0/off and positioning the plate forward or backward of center to balance. There is no spirit level or indicators for leveling the camera - so have one handy or trust your eye. Even with the drag off, the spring tension in the head is enough to screw with your leveling efforts if that's not adjusted right too. Anyway, once you're leveled up, you tighten down the plate with a singel thumb screw that does nothing more than push against the side of the plate. This is a serious joke... If this thumb screw fails, and that isn't far fetched at all, in fact quite likely in outdoor shooting environments if the temperature drops rapidly or other factors kick in. But if it fails and your camera/plate starts to slide if you're tilted, there's no way that wimpy-ass spring clip I mentioned is going to hold back 20lbs of camera.

The fluid drag settings are selected by a dial for pan/rotation and another for tilt. The dials lock into place on each setting. When engaging a drag setting of 1, 2 or 3, the head must be moved a bit for it to lock-in and take effect.

There is no way on Earth to actually balance any camera on this head. None. Turning the tilt drag off and doing my best to adjust tension and veriftying that jsut my stock HVX at about 8lbs is perfectly balanced and level, I can switch on the drag and let it sit for 10 minutes. It will be tilted slightly up or down when I come back. The head does nothing to return to a level state other than what the internal front/back spring tension dictates and even with that, when the fluid drag is on, all bets are off on it being consistant. If I let the camera sit and it tilts up, I can push it back to level and let it sit again and in another 10 minutes it could be tilted slightly down, without adjusting the plate positon or anyting and even using an 8" spirit level to verify the camera is stitting balanced and level before I walk away.

Heavier loads fare even worse. In fact, there is no way this head could handle the full 35lb rated capacity. My 22lb rated Cartoni Focus 100 handled 20lbs of gear a lot more elegantly than this head does. At least it would properly balance and remain consistant. It would also tilt smoothly and consistantly.

As I mentioned before, the tension increases as you tilt further off-center. It's bad, on drag level 3, I felt as if I was going to break the pan-bar free from its tooth-washer and cheap plastic thumb-screw before I reached the full +70 degree tilt.

The end...

There you have it folks, my review of the $1700 P.O.S. tripod kit. I don't know what I'm going to do now, but I'm going to keep hunting for deals or I may just suck it up and buy that Vinten kit I've tried at the shop. Why do those O'Connors have to be so expensive? Probably because they work, whereas this one doesn't. I wouldn't even recommend this Bogen/Manfrotto head to a casual hobbyist. And I'm not any elitist filmmaker either. I suppose it's possible that I received a dud, but I already spent a whole day playing with it and I'm done. I'll go ahead and snap some pictures tomorrow morning then the light is better and I'll post a couple.

So if you guys read all the way through this, thanks for your time. All I can say is don't buy this tripod head/combo -- even if you're on a really tight budget. It isn't worth half of what I paid. It was $1700... I only paid $1200 for my Cartoni Focus setup and while it's rated for 13lbs less, it's an overall much better and more elegant unit.

[Ralph Oshiro]

So if you guys read all the way through this, thanks for your time. All I can say is don't buy this tripod head/combo -- even if you're on a really tight budget. It isn't worth half of what I paid. It was $1700... I only paid $1200 for my Cartoni Focus setup and while it's rated for 13lbs less, it's an overall much better and more elegant unit.Sorry to hear of your disappointment, AV! I was going to suggest you try to find a used Vinten haed and pair it up with some Libec legs to save some cash, but it looks like you already committed. If you purchased from B+H, they DO have a return policy. It's just real short. But I would at least attempt to obtain an RMA number from them. It may be a bit of a hassle, but I've always managed to eventually get very satisfactory customer service resolutions from B+H. They once exchanged a digital camera for me, MONTHS after I had purchased it, because I didn't realize part of it was defective until way after the fact. I asked for a supervisor, gave her my sob story, and she bought it. They sent me a new camera. Another time, when I bought my Steadicam Flyer from them, they misread some special instructions. They paid for the return shipping in full, then drop-shipped a new Flyer from Tiffen--all at their cost, with no re-stocking fees.

By the way . . . thanks for taking the time to write that detailed review!

[Ralph Oshiro]

Oh crap. You bought it from Amazon. Well, it's still worth trying for an RMA number from the vendor. Just say, it really wasn't the quality you thought was going to be. The actual truth always sounds "real genuine."

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Actually, the Amazon purchase worked out good in this regard. The tripod package was sold by Amazon.com and not a third-party vendor through Amazon. So I already have my RMA #. No restocking fee and I was able to choose that I was dissatisfied with the item as a reason for return. I originally attempted to buy from B&H, but they were out of stock. I didn't think to try Amazon for such a tripod package until a search for this particular head/leg combo showed up in a nextag search. Amazon was offering it with free shipping, so I figured I'd give it a try.

[Ralph Oshiro]

Actually, the Amazon purchase worked out good in this regard. The tripod package was sold by Amazon.com and not a third-party vendor through Amazon. So I already have my RMA #. No restocking fee and I was able to choose that I was dissatisfied with the item as a reason for return. I originally attempted to buy from B&H, but they were out of stock. I didn't think to try Amazon for such a tripod package until a search for this particular head/leg combo showed up in a nextag search. Amazon was offering it with free shipping, so I figured I'd give it a try.Whew! Good! I was feeling ill for you for having spent all that money on something you thought was such a piece of crap!

[PaulClements]

Thats a shame to hear Jeff, but a good review and thanks for the heads up. I guess the best bet the budget conscious is going to be the second hand market by the looks of it.

Thanks
Paul

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I guess the best bet the budget conscious is going to be the second hand market by the looks of it.

That's what I'm thinking. I'm just going to rent for now... Or at least until NAB comes along and then I'll keep my eyes open for any good deals on used gear.

[Steve Gibby]

Yeah, Jeff, NAB is just 6 weeks away. There may be some new heads rolled out - and some heads will probably roll!

If you're there on the last day of exhibitions you can sometimes snag some really cool deals on floor models exhibitors don't want to cart back to the factory. I gave my good impression of Vinten earlier in this thread. I've used tripods/heads from every manufacturer, but for the mobile, non-hardlined EFP work I do a lot of, Vinten has been great over the years. I think the trick there is to get a great head that will take a lot of load if needed, but one that isn't too heavy to carry around. If you're shooting mobile EFP and stock footage, carrying weight is an issue. I always get sticks with mid-level spreaders - never floor level. In outdoor shooting with floor level spreaders I've had many nightmares with dirt-clogged spreader channels. Carbon fiber conducts less vibration than aluminum alloy, so if you're shooting content where the air or ground shakes, that may be an issue.

Vinten is expensive - but it's because they have a long history, a solid reputation, and demand is high. Sometimes you can pick off a good reconditioned Vinten from a rental house. I've done that before with good luck. With tripods, as with most everything else, you get what you for. But there are workarounds (reconditioned, “going out of business” sales, last day of NAB, word of mouth sales from associates, luck, etc.)

I agree with Ralph’s opinion of good opinion of Vinten. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've heard some real good reports on the Vinten Vision 100 for when heavier load capacity is needed. With my REDs I'll probably end up using an O'Connor or Vinten Vision 100 for heavy loads/stationary work, a mid-range Vinten for general use/medium loads/mobile work, and a Miller Solo with carbon fiber sticks for real mobile/light to low-medium loads shooting.

I'm going to wait until NAB to finalize any more purchase decisions of any kind...as you know, it's a big candy store!

[Finner]

Sorry to hear about that Jeff, I know you were kind of counting on this head getting you through the next few months. I will be looking for a new head at NAB as well.

[Ivan G]

My initial impression of the 526/528XB combo...

IT'S CRAP! ...more to come in a bit.

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaats BOGEN!

I honestly enjoyed reading that little article on Bogen. Seriously! I'd love to get info like that on products.

[Mike the beginner]

That was a great review Jeff. You saved me from getting a load of rubbish.

I really need something that i can use with the red zoom most of the time and the red 300mm at other times. I had hoped to purchase a tripod around the same time my red 312 will arrive but have now decided to wait. I need carbon fibre legs for sure so maybe some of the wildlife pros will purchase a red and buy a suitable tripod hopefully giving us a review of their purchase.

Its galling when i think of paying more than $6,000 for a tripod when there is so many other things i need.

Mike the beginner

[Stephen Williams]

H
I mean, Sachtlers are arguably the best, IMO, but I prefer the Vintens. I use Sachtlers at work for our BVW600s,

Ralph,

You are joking?

I have just been using a 75HD with a loaded Viper, fine when straight ahead but total crap when on a crane pointing down. O'conner is IMHO by far the best.

Stephen

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Here's a few images...

The system fitted with the stock HVX so you can see the size relationship of the head. ...About what I expected, maybe a bit big.

The view of the quick release plate halfway removed from the head. The red button on the front side of the quickplate track is the spring-clip that "keeps it from falling out". I can pull the quick plate out of the track without depressing this button with about 15lbs of force. ...Lame. Directly across from this on the other side of the track is the thumb screw that applies pressure on the side of the plate to "hold it in place". There are no divets, insets, etc.. points for this to screw into, it's a compression design only with a 1/4" diameter screw head holding your camera from falling off. In most situations, it probably will work just fine. Until that one time it fails...

And a view of the lower foot of the tripod. The lock knob is another 1/4" screw that applies pressure to the internal leg shaft. It doesn't actually lock into anything unless you manage to rotate the internal leg shaft and align the lock-knob with one of those pin-holes that are about 8" apart. You can see the included steel pin that goes in those pin holes as a backup measure. The metal piece that holds the rubber foot is just bent around it. You can see the small gap running the length of the piece. It's no big deal to pop the rubber foot out without noticing.

I'll post a few more if the site will let me...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Gibby,

Thanks for the comments again... I've been looking at the Vinten Vision 11 as well as the O'Conor 1030HD/HDS and 2060 at the local shop. IMO, the O'Connor 2060 is THE HEAD to get. But it's a bit big and heavy for being mobile and also I think it's going to be out of my budget range... I won't know that for sure until we get all the accessory pricing from RED in the next couple weeks. The Vision 11 and the O'Connor 1030HD are very even in terms of what they do, I like the 1030HD a little better, but it's $1200 more. I want to try a Vision 100 and will do so, but I think it's going to work out about the same as an O'Connor 2060 -- a little too big, not near as expensive though. In terms of size and payload capacity, the O'Connor 1030HDS is great, but I don't think I could live with the +/-60 tilt range.

As for tripod legs, I prefer carbon fiber just because of the weight. I do shoot outoors a lot and want to have a fairly mobile option. This Bogen kit isn't very mobile, but that didn't bother me so much... I figured that if the head worked out well, I could buy another set of legs. Just as a full kit with the legs and bag for $250 more than the head alone, this made sense for an immediate solution.

You mention the Miller Solo VJ tripod. I'd be interested in knowing what your overall opinion is of it (I'm guessing it's good since you brought it up). A lot of HVX200 users have chosen the Miller Solo to use with the Focus 100 head and the Solo seems like a great mobile option if it can handle a bigger head like the Vision 11 or 1030HD. I do occasionally shoot where the ground vibrates (construction sites, etc..), I haven't had much trouble with vibration. But then again with my DVX I had an old klunker steel tripod and I had the Cartoni F103 kit with the carbon legs, which I was pleased with overall.

I'd really like to go to NAB. I'm trying to find a way to pull it off, but I just don't know yet. As much as I'd like to see the RED booth, I don't need to, buying the camera is a done deal. I just want to go to meet a lot of the people from these forums and to take a look for a good tripod system along with a few other things.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Here's 3 more... Thie first is the bottom of the quick release plate. You can see the flimsy little spring that pushes the anti-rotation pin into place. But it isn't as strong as a mini-paperclip and the pin itself is very loose and sloppy.

The quick plate track itself. Red button on the left is that spring latch again, the thumb screw is on the other side of the track, kinda blurry.

The last pic shows the spirit level. The knob above it is the internal spring tension control. Below and to the right is the fluid drag setting for panning. The knob on the left side of the head is the fluid drag setting for the tilt. Above that and forward, near the Manfrotto logo is the lock-knob for locking the tilt of the head. Slightly below and forward from the fluid drag knob for tilt is the lock-knob for the pan rotation.

Sorry for the extra blurriness on the shots, I should have changed lenses on the camera. I just had the 50mm lens on and no flash, the light wasn't all that great just inside my front door.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If anyone wants some specific pictures, let me know. I can probably snap a few more later today or in the morning before I pack it up. It gets shipped back tomorrow afternoon.

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Hu…Hum… Panther X15… anybody ?

Emmanuel

[Ralph Oshiro]

Ralph,

You are joking?

I have just been using a 75HD with a loaded Viper, fine when straight ahead but total crap when on a crane pointing down. O'conner is IMHO by far the best.

StephenWell, I haven't played with O'Conner heads since probably the mid-1980s, and I really didn't like their heads back then (I especially hated their tiny little, metal pan/tilt locks). I'm sure they're much improved since then. For whatever reason, O'Conner isn't very popluar in ENG use--everyone I know has a Sachtler. Guess I'll have to check one out sometime, although I'm very happy with my Vinten. I know with larger cameras, such as the Viper you mentioned, counterbalanced-sprung weight is probably a must, but when I use my Sachtler at work, I ALWAYS have all counterbalance springs "off," simply because they adversely affect my tilt.

[Steve Gibby]

You mention the Miller Solo VJ tripod. I'd be interested in knowing what your overall opinion is of it (I'm guessing it's good since you brought it up). A lot of HVX200 users have chosen the Miller Solo to use with the Focus 100 head and the Solo seems like a great mobile option if it can handle a bigger head like the Vision 11 or 1030HD. I do occasionally shoot where the ground vibrates (construction sites, etc..), I haven't had much trouble with vibration.

I have no connection whatsoever to Miller, but an associate of mine has a Miller Solo DS20 tripod system, which is the 1501 carbon fiber sticks, and the DS20 fluid head. I’ve borrowed it several times and used it for shooting real mobile stock footage of nature, adventure travel, and alternative sports, with mid-sized camera systems. For that kind of shooting, I’m usually by myself, and I hike long distances with a camera backpack, tripod, and survival supplies. I loved it and I intend to buy one for when I do that kind of shooting.

The payload of the DS20 head is a max of 22 lbs, but a hike-in RED camera package should weigh around 19 pounds: camera, viewfinder, lens (RED 300mm, RED 18-85mm, or prime), battery, Flash or RED Drive, lightweight follow focus, lightweight clip-on matte box. I’ve had loads I estimated at around 24 pounds on the DS20 head and it still performed well.

The cool thing I like about the 1501 sticks for that kind of shooting is that they are lightweight, don’t need a spreader (3-position lockable), and you can put them on the low to the ground setting for creative low-level shots.

The vibration issue I mentioned is that carbon fiber does not transfer vibration either direction up/down the sticks like metal does. On windy days the carbon fiber sticks seem to dampen down the slight shakes the camera can get – a problem with long lenses. If you’re shooting by rushing water, motor sports, etc. the slight vibrations coming from the ground don’t reach the camera/lens, because the carbon fiber sticks absorb them.

Again, this is only my solution for the types of shooting/equipment I mentioned above. Perhaps a different 75mm ball fluid head on the 1501 sticks, with a higher load capacity, would be a good option, because then you’d have the option to put that same head on a sturdy pair of conventional sticks for a mid-range normal use tripod system.

For the heavier load, more stationary shooting, it’s hard to go wrong with the O’Connor and Vinten systems you have been mentioning. I rarely do hyper-load tripod shooting in my work – 55 lbs on up. If I have a call for that with my REDs, I’ll rent what I need for that on a per-project basis. In between the Miller Solo and the heavy tripod rentals, I’ll probably buy a used, reconditioned Vinten head and put it on some sturdy, but relatively lightweight sticks, with mid-level spreaders. Between those three systems, I’ll have the bases covered for 95% of what I normally shoot.

As I mentioned on other posts, I've had very good results in ENG/EFP work with both Vinten and Sachtler.


Some Miller links:

Miller Solo in the Arctic in temperatures as low as –70 degrees Fahrenheit: http://www.millertripods.com/inthefield.cfm?sectid=50&subsec=5011&ID=111

Miller Solo 1501 carbon fiber sticks:
http://www.millertripods.com/products.cfm?sectid=20&subsec=2020&productID=178

Weight = 5.7lbs. Payload = 44lbs. Minimum height = 9.2”. 3-position locking, with no spreader needed.

Miller DS20 fluid head specs:
http://www.millertripods.com/products.cfm?sectid=20&subsec=2020&productID=15

Miller DS20 tripod system:
http://www.millertripods.com/products.cfm?sectid=20&subsec=2020&productID=181

(Solo 1501 carbon fiber sticks + DS20 fluid head)

[Pig]

Wow, AppliedVisual, that's amazing; the review I mean.
This just goes to show how deceiving a quick NAB test can be.
I really was EXTREMELY impressed with this tripod head (526) when I briefly tested it at Nab 2006. I am quite perplexed to read your review here.
I can also confirm some of the negatives though; especially relating to the QR plate and its security. I was surprised Bogen/Manfrotto didn't make that a more pro design, but instead adopt the rather flimsy design of their cheaper units.
I am amazed at your take on the functionality of the head though. It may well be that other offerings at Nab lacked proper set-ups; Sachtler for instance (I think it was Sachtler) had a TERRIBLE, repeat TERRIBLE display of their heads. They were mounted on columns that would flex at their base, and basically rendered any tests useless.
Bogen had a nice set-up with their 526. A 2/3" cam and a decent tripod. Certainly a much more favourable way of testing the head.
I may have not read correctly, but I hope you tested this heads with something beefier than an HVX. I doubt this head would balance or preform well with such a light cam. AND: the HVX has its Center Of Gravity very low. This head will/should perform much better with a heavier cam and a higher Center of gravity.

Anyway, certainly appreciate your taking the time to review it. Makes me take back what I said about this combo, and just goes to show that sometimes things look to good to be true.

We still use our Vinten Vision 10 and our OLD O'Connor, and are still in the market for a new tripod and head. Maybe the 526 is not the answer after all....bummer!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hi Pig,

I tested the 526 very thoroughly. I even kept it a few more days after the review and gave it another thorough test again just because I had high hopes for it.

Yes, I did test it with some heavier payloads, an HVX rig with Century wide glass on the front, mic, 13" LCD. Even tied a couple heavy books on top to play with making it more top-heavy and just heavier in general. Also tried it with a Sony DSR-350 (non functional), same monitor, etc.. Neither config got that close to the 35lb rating of the head, but both were well over half. Performance was better with more weight, but still not great. The #3 drag setting didn't improve much with more weight and the tripod would have to be anchored or the legs would have to be spread very wide. I was not impressed with the legs at all. The spring tension on the tilt was a joke. Tension control doesn't really do anything truly functional, or my head was defective. I also thought how the slight motion back and forth needed to lock-in or engage a new drag setting was inexcusable. ...I'm not alone with that thinking, seems that the other Manfrotto fluid heads have this issue as well as other people with the 526 report this same thing.

Anyway, it went back and I received my refund. I had high hopes for it, but it just isn't a good product. Since then I rented a Vinten Vision 11 kit from a local shop and I was pleased with that overall. Probably not beefy enough for a full RED setup, but I'm just going to hold off and rent whant I need until I have my RED and know what I need for sure.