Cooke Red Lenses

[Steve Sherrick]

Sorry if this was already posted somewhere.

http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf

Steve

[Adrian Correia]

$96,000.00 Steve - blowin' my budget out the water!

[Finner]

Come on Adrian don't be cheap with your art!

[Steve Sherrick]

Yeah, makes you want to come up with some get rich schemes pretty quickly.

Steve

[Steve Sherrick]

I've decided that I would sell my left arm and right foot to get these. How's that for sacrificing for art.

Steve

[Cüneyt Kaya]

do know a price? looks cool

i was toooooooooo slow

q is ansered

[Adrian Correia]

Come on Adrian don't be cheap with your art!

I'll stay with the K35s for now....maybe when the whole rig is paid off!

[Michael Schrengohst]

*Warning: The red on RED enhancement may or may not enhance your creativity, but it'll look awesome while your shooting.

And isn't that what counts???

[Sanjin Jukic]

http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/cooke_red_special_6x6.jpg


Cooke S4/i 15-40mm, T2.0 CXX Zoom Lens
Cooke S4/i 50mm, T2.0 Prime Lens
Cooke S4/i 75mm, T2.0 Prime Lens
Cooke S4/i 100mm, T2.0 Prime Lenses


Amazing!

[Alexis Hanawalt]

Did anyone ever make a pinhole camera in photography class? I'm going to save my $96K and just tape a shoebox to the camera mount with a lil' pinhole.

There's art.

[Steve Sherrick]

How much will you sell those for Alexis?

Steve

[Finner]

Ya how much for a # reservation on a set of those boxes.

[Dalibor Fencl]

96K pretty nice price.

What a family - each of them the price of fully equipped camera.

[Chris Parker]

Is there anything different about this set than the normal Cooke i/lenses? And is $96,000 really the price for this set?

I am seriously considering picking this set up, as it seems like the perfect addition to a RED cam......

[Brent J. Craig]

That set would rent for at least $1000 to 1250 per day. Less than 80 shoot days to pay them off. Not bad.

[Finner]

On a standard 2 or 3 day week it takes a while.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Did anyone ever make a pinhole camera in photography class? I'm going to save my $96K and just tape a shoebox to the camera mount with a lil' pinhole.

There's art.

Hehe... Pinhole camera. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=23563&postcount=77

...No shoebox required either. You could just order an extra RED body cap and drill an appropriately sized pinhole in the middle of it. The smaller the pinhole, the sharper the image and the longer the exposure time.

[I Bloom]

Hehe... Pinhole camera. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=23563&postcount=77

...No shoebox required either. You could just order an extra RED body cap and drill an appropriately sized pinhole in the middle of it. The smaller the pinhole, the sharper the image and the longer the exposure time.

Wow Jeff. That's amazing. I missed that thread. It seems Red took notice of the competition, as we now all shoot R3D.

Ian

[Steve Sherrick]

So, about these Cooke Red lenses...

Just kidding Jeff. That was really cool. Somehow I missed that thread as well. You are way more ambitious than I am.

Steve

[Michele Gavazzeni]

97.000$

maybe thay havent understood what the RED REVOLUTION is about!!!!

No wait

I'm sure thay havent understood!

[Zack Birlew]

Yeesh, $96,000? Well, there are some nice lenses there but if I were going to get anything, I'd get the RED Prime Set for $20,000. For rental places, I'm sure the $96,000 price tag is nothing but as an indie filmmaker, that's really beyond steep, heck, $20,000 was pretty tough already. Maybe after my first RED feature hits it big I'll consider it but until then it's still lenses for me.

[Paul Hazlett]

I am going to sell my camera to buy these and just travel around renting them
to red users.

[chuck colburn]

I am going to sell my camera to buy these and just travel around renting them
to red users.

Hahahaha
Good idea. Don't forget to add about another 25K or so for a couple of Zeiss/Arri wides.
Can I be your personel lens tech? We (Jake and I) are also availble for location security of your optics.

[Steve Sherrick]

Well keep in mind these are not Red specific lenses. They are S4/i that they have branded with Red coloring scheme. There is no difference in these from the regular ones. These are precision optics, so they can charge a premium for it. If Red had a lens that had no breathing and all of the other great specs these lenses offer and priced them at "Red rebellion" prices then I think we might see some kind of move by the optics manufacturers. Red has done what they can to give us options but I haven't heard anyone say that the 18-50 is going to perform at the level of say the Cooke 15-40.

I'm with you guys as far as these being a bit out of reach for the small production companies. I'll have to go with renting when needed. We'll have to wait and see how the Red Primes perform.

Steve

[Michael Stanmore]

Yeah, I'll rent these if anyone in Europe (preferably UK) gets a set... yummy glass!

[Michael Lindsay]

movietech (amongst others in the UK) has all the lenses in that set..

[Emmanuel Cambier]

I'll probably get a set of those, if anybody wants to rent it, let me know.

[Bruce Allen]

From the tech specs, the only difference between these and the regular Cookes are that they're painted red and bundled together with a slight discount?

What if you want to add another prime from their set? Can you get those in Red too, to match? Or will you have to settle for mixing Yellow and Red lenses on set? Oh man, the indignity...

"Show Off Your Credentials as a Charter Member of the Rebellion"
Hahahaahahahaaaa! This has got to be the most expensive rebellion ever, per-capita. Glad I'm not part of it.

Nothing against Cooke, they are beautiful lenses.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.co

[Jim Hoffman]

Sorry if this is answered somewhere but...

Do RED lenses store metadata as well??? doesn't seem like it would be that tough.

[I Bloom]

Sorry if this is answered somewhere but...

Do RED lenses store metadata as well??? does seem like it would be that tough,

Yes. Red is licensing /i from Cooke.

IBloom

[C.H.Haskell]

Oh wow...yeah thats nice. Uhmmm anyone game for a group purchase? Haha...

So what makes this set "RED"....red logo?

[Anthony Gratl]

I am going to sell my camera to buy these and just travel around renting them
to red users.

LMAO!!!!That is funny mister phaz. Westfalia?

[jimhare]

Oh wow...yeah thats nice. Uhmmm anyone game for a group purchase? Haha...

So what makes this set "RED"....red logo?

Sure. Let's see... 4000 Red users will mean we only pay $24 each. I'll get to use them for half a day in 2011... :wink:

[Mark Pedersen]

Has anyone tested the Red lenses against Cooke or Zeiss glass? And if so, how much difference is there in optical and mechanical performance? I've seen test comparisons of Cooke vs Zeiss on this forum, but nothing comparing them to Red. Any benchmarks out there?

I've heard rumors that the Red lenses are re-packaged Sigma glass. I'd hate to think that was the case... But does anyone really know??

Thanks, and please don't crucify me for asking! I have Red lenses on order and hope they are designed to deliver resolution and optical performance that is at or beyond the sensor's capabilities.

It would be great if performance specs were published so we all knew what we are buying :)

Thanks!

[Blue]

A Red lens IS a Cooke lens

[Frank Mirbach]

I heard Red lenses are Sigma, Nikon and Cooke so far. Anyone here who knows the truth ?

[Brook Willard]

Nobody knows the truth except for the guys at RED. Everybody else [including Blue who made his statement as though he were proclaiming fact] is just guessing. I have my own guesses too.


Has anyone tested the Red lenses against Cooke or Zeiss glass? And if so, how much difference is there in optical and mechanical performance? I've seen test comparisons of Cooke vs Zeiss on this forum, but nothing comparing them to Red. Any benchmarks out there?

Evin did some when we had a set of S4s for a commercial. Check the lens tests forum.

I dig the "red" Cooke lenses. I hope they offer the zoom with the red lettering as a stand alone... that lens is rockin.

[Blue]

Nobody knows the truth except for the guys at RED. Everybody else [including Blue who made his statement as though he were proclaiming fact] is just guessing.

Guilty! In fact not even a guess, more of a grossly misleading statement. Sue me, I deserve it.

[Evin Grant]

I liked the S4s a bunch and would rent them again in a heart beat but if you're looking for a miracle it's just not there. Every lens I've tested so far looks great on the Red. The Red 18-50 has some very pretty characteristics especially the "depth of flare" (inside joke). It's just as sharp as the Cooke and the Zeiss lenses and I expect the Nikon, Canon and Sigmas. One great thing about a 35mm sensor is it's much more forgiving at the sensor level than a 2/3" sensor. I just wish Fujinon would make some 35mm primes they'd be sweet.

[Damien Molineaux]

...

I've heard rumors that the Red lenses are re-packaged Sigma glass. I'd hate to think that was the case... But does anyone really know??

Thanks, and please don't crucify me for asking! I have Red lenses on order and hope they are designed to deliver resolution and optical performance that is at or beyond the sensor's capabilities.

It would be great if performance specs were published so we all knew what we are buying :)

Thanks!

A Red lens IS a Cooke lens

No ! Red lenses are not made by Cooke.

Stop dreaming people, get real. There's no way (yet) a 6'500 lens equals a 25'000 lens. However, the value for the money seems good, even very good, at least concerning the 18-50.

As to the theory that Red lenses use Sigma glass, I'd say it's very likely, and that's okay. Remember a lot of what makes a cine lens is the packaging : accurate focus throughout the zoom range, precise PL mount, T-stops, long focus throw with annotations (feet or meters ?), no stops on aperture ring, i-technology, etc.

Check out these two lenses from sigma:
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3320&navigator=6
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3318&navigator=6
same zoom range, constant f-stop throughout the range. Sorry if I'm bursting the bubble for some of you, but hey, as mentioned above, the lens housing is a big part of what makes a cine lens, and if I had the dough, I'd buy Red lenses. I actually placed a reservation on their elusive 18-85mm, that's the lens I really want, so I'm holding on to that, and I'm still hoping it'll come out one day.

Cheers,
Damien

[Blue]

No ! Red lenses are not made by Cooke.

I already came clean. Im just annoyed but not overly that $6500 gets you only 95% of the quality of a $25k lens. It's a huge premium you pay for that last 5% but it's the same with anything. Value levels out at a relatively low price point then you get screwed for anything over and above and severely screwed if you want the best. Case in point :Red One - 95% the quality of a D20 and 1/10 of the price.

[Sanjin Jukic]

No ! Red lenses are not made by Cooke.

Stop dreaming people, get real. There's no way (yet) a 6'500 lens equals a 25'000 lens. However, the value for the money seems good, even very good, at least concerning the 18-50.

As to the theory that Red lenses use Sigma glass, I'd say it's very likely, and that's okay. Remember a lot of what makes a cine lens is the packaging : accurate focus throughout the zoom range, precise PL mount, T-stops, long focus throw with annotations (feet or meters ?), no stops on aperture ring, i-technology, etc.

Check out these two lenses from sigma:
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3320&navigator=6
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3318&navigator=6
same zoom range, constant f-stop throughout the range. Sorry if I'm bursting the bubble for some of you, but hey, as mentioned above, the lens housing is a big part of what makes a cine lens, and if I had the dough, I'd buy Red lenses. I actually placed a reservation on their elusive 18-85mm, that's the lens I really want, so I'm holding on to that, and I'm still hoping it'll come out one day.

Cheers,
Damien

Sigma has very good lens line that meets a price and performance.

But first just a calculation:

Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 EX DC MACRO>>MSRP: $670.00 USD (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3320&navigator=6)

RED 18-50mm T3 F2.8 Zoom>>Price: $6,500.00 USD (http://www.red.com/store/product_detail/32)

So re-barreling/re-housing/finishing like a cine lens costs approximately about 10 X than the original lens.

What about to try out with Leica!?

The second calculation is using Leica lens:

Leica Zoom Wide Angle-Tele 28-90mm f/2.8-4.5 Aspherical Vario-Elmarit-R Manual Focus Lens>>Price: $ 4,195.00 USD (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/305179-USA/Leica_11365_28_90mm_f_2_8_4_5_Aspherical_Vario_Elm arit_R.html)

To make a cine lens out of this particular lens with the calculation 10 X that would cost about $42.000 USD.

This example for the (RED) cine lens with its price and also picture quality could enter in a competition (price/performance) to the main cine zoom lenses from Cooke, Zeiss and Angenieux.
For sure Leica glass would bring Leica picture quality to RED cine lens line that could compete and even later to win the high end cine lens race. RED desperately needs Oscar.

And Jim could do it if he wants to extend RED lens line to the highest quality.

It's about just to join Leica Cinema GmbH (http://www.easymonitoring.ch/handelsregister/leica_cinema_gmbh_859115.aspx) in Zürich and DO IT.

Also Leica desperately needs inroad to the cinema industry with its high quality glass.

To give you the comparison about a different picture quality between Leica and Sigma at the pictures below:

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Leica_Summicron_90mm.jpg
Leica Summicron M 90mm Leitz Canada f2 at f5.6 ISO 100 on Canon 30D with CMOS sensor

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Sigma_50-500mm.jpg
Sigma 50-500mm zoom focused at 90mm ISO 100 on Canon 30D with CMOS sensor

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Leica-resolution.jpg
Leica Telyt M (Visoflex) - Ernst Leitz GmbH Wetzlar Germany - 200mm at f5.6 ISO 100 on Canon 30D

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Sigma-resolution.jpg
Sigma 50-500mm zoom focused at 200mm ISO 100 on Canon 30D with CMOS sensor

Here at the above picture examples you could say there are no difference at all but there are.
Leica is a bit more sharper, has more resolution and the colors are outstanding compared with Sigma that has more cooler colors.

In 4K all that differences are even more visible.

If RED has a goal to compete with camera/lens makers like
ARRI and Panavision all about that is to have high end lens line.

Also RED could have two lens lines, high and low.

Affordable line could be based on Sigma or what ever and a high end lens line based on Leica R glass.

[Nils J. Nesse]

Are Red lenses rehoused Sigmas?

Sigma do have a 18-50mm f/2.8, a 50-150mm f/2.8 and also a 300mm f/2.8 (very highly rated in the reviews I've read).

But looking at the upcoming Red primes, none of those have excisting equivalents in the Sigma lineup. Well, they DO have a 15mm f/2.8, but that's a fisheye, and I'm guessing/hoping Red's will be rectilinear.

I guess if Sigma announces a new line of primes, consisting of 25mm f1.9, 35mm f1.9, 50mm f1.9, and 85mm f1.9, then we'll know they are the maker of the Red glass. (Though I've never seen a still lens in f/1.9. Weird aperture number they've got there.)

As for quality, I think Sigma's best models are right up there with the Nikons and Canons when it comes to picture quality. The down side seems to be that they have lacking quality control; inconsistent quality from one lens to the next. But if this is the case, I think we can assume that Red has a system for picking the good ones for rehousing.

I wish we could have an official statement on this. Sigma or not?

[Stephen Webb]

I don't think Red are going to answer who is making their lenses. I'll go out on a limb though and say I'm certain they're not Sigma.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I don't think Red are going to answer who is making their lenses. I'll go out on a limb though and say I'm certain they're not Sigma.

I'm going to agree here. Just because Sigma has an 18-50 and a 300 doesn't mean that RED is using them.

There's a good bet that RED themselves are having the lenses manufactured in their own or contracted facilities. They could be buying glass elements from a known lens manufacturer, or maybe not. Perhaps there is some credibility to the RED / Cooke rumors, but maybe it's just an issue of licensing and intellectual property sharing and not an indicator of who is manufacturing the lenses. One of the prototype lenses had a "Made in England" stamped on it (if I recall) and that combined with the /i support made a lot of people assume the lenses would be made by Cooke. Perhaps through initial design processes and the /i licensing, that one prototype was made by Cooke? Or maybe it was a conversion done by a lens shop in that area? Actual production lenses may be made by someone else entirely. They could be made in Mexico for all we know...

Until RED says something, I doubt we'll ever know for sure. And I'm betting they won't say anything.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sooner or later people would find out who is making glass and housing for RED lenses.
Prototypes could be made in Lake Forest, California but the lens glass probably not.

My suggestion is to join Leica Cinema GmbH (http://www.easymonitoring.ch/handelsregister/leica_cinema_gmbh_859115.aspx) and with its own RED cine lens design make the excellent cine lenses.
Then with it high end lens set go in a competition with lenses from Arri-Zeiss, Cooke, Angenieux and Panavision.

By the way I was talking with Geoffrey from Cooke at the Cooke stand on IBC 2007 about RED lenses.
He was not so impressed (!?). Then he repeated all those stories about hand-made high end Cooke
lenses, measuring, etc...that I almost missed RED 4K presentation.

[filip kovcin]

first person who receives red lenses should go to the nearest airport with all possible cine lenses he can rent for one hour, lay it down inside xray or whatever "scanner" and freeze the frame. or make picture of it. then can send it to this forum and we can compare models by checking design of glasses inside the body of lenses. :)

what do you think?

filip

[Obin Olson]

are you kidding already? 96k?!?!? the POINT of the RED Mr Cooke is that you and I can buy the camera !

[Paris Remillard]

Hey, Sanjin. You keep talking about Leica lenses for motion pictures, but I think Panavision beat you to the punch. Just get a PV mount for your Red and you're good. According to this article and the ELCAN website, Ernst Leitz Canada makes Primos. Or at least L-series Primos. So, there's your leica motion picture glass.

http://optics.org/cws/product/P000002510

also

http://www.elcan.com/ELCAN_News/SuccessFiles/commercialOEM_panavision.php

and

http://www.elcan.com/ELCAN_Business_Areas/Commercial_OEM/Complete_Customer_Solutions/Applications/Entertainment.php

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hey, Sanjin. You keep talking about Leica lenses for motion pictures, but I think Panavision beat you to the punch. Just get a PV mount for your Red and you're good. According to this article and the ELCAN website, Ernst Leitz Canada makes Primos. Or at least L-series Primos. So, there's your leica motion picture glass.

http://optics.org/cws/product/P000002510

also

http://www.elcan.com/ELCAN_News/SuccessFiles/commercialOEM_panavision.php

and

http://www.elcan.com/ELCAN_Business_Areas/Commercial_OEM/Complete_Customer_Solutions/Applications/Entertainment.php

I know all that from before (ELCAN History (http://www.elcan.com/About_ELCAN/ELCAN_History/)) and I was pointing out on the Leica glass today made in Leica Camera AG, Solms Germany (http://www.leica.com/).

By the way Leica collectors are rating German made glass still more valuable than Midland Leica glass made in Canada.
Maybe for Panavision was easy to go in Canada for the glass. But anyhow they did it and have got four Academy Awards (http://www.elcan.com/ELCAN_News/SuccessFiles/commercialOEM_panavision.php) for that.
Even Spielberg and Scorsese were pleased with Primo L Series lenses.

To repeat again it's about just to join Leica Cinema GmbH (http://www.easymonitoring.ch/handelsregister/leica_cinema_gmbh_859115.aspx) in Zürich and DO IT something for the first RED Oscar.

By the way I do have two vintage Leitz Canada lenses that are waiting for RED with Nikon mount:

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/leica_elmar_65.jpg
Leica Elmar M 65mm f3.5 Leitz Canada

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/leica_summicron_90.jpg
Leica Summicron M 90mm f2 Leitz Canada

[Rocco Schult]

Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 EX DC MACRO>>MSRP: $670.00 USD

RED 18-50mm T3 F2.8 Zoom>>Price: $6,500.00 USD

So re-barreling/re-housing/finishing like a cine lens costs approximately about 10 X than the original lens.
...
To make a cine lens out of this particular lens with the calculation 10 X that would cost about $42.000 USD.
...
It's about just to join Leica Cinema GmbH (http://www.easymonitoring.ch/handelsregister/leica_cinema_gmbh_859115.aspx) in Zürich and DO IT.
...
To give you the comparison about a different picture quality between Leica and Sigma at the pictures below:

IMAGE (http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Leica_Summicron_90mm.jpg) Leica Summicron 90mm ...

IMAGE (http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Sigma_50-500mm.jpg) Sigma 50-500mm zoom ...

IMAGE (http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Leica-resolution.jpg) Leica Telyt 200mm ...

IMAGE (http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Sigma-resolution.jpg) Sigma 50-500mm zoom ...

Here on the above picture examples you could say there are no difference at all but there are.
Leica is a bit more sharper, has more resolution and the colors are outstanding compared with Sigma that has more cooler colors.

In 4K all that differences are even more visible.

If RED has a goal to compete with camera/lens makers like
ARRI and Panavision all about that is to have high end lens line.

Also RED could have two lens lines, high and low.

Affordable line could be based on Sigma or what ever and a high end lens line based on Leica R glass.

I have to answer now. Leica makes beautifuil glass, yes. Period.

1st: Rehousing is a mechanical work. That does not cost "10x" of a lens. If you take THIS (http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/EF_Lenses/Fixed_Focal_Length/EF_1200mm_f56L_USM/) big Canon Tele, NO, the rehousing would NOT cost 900.000!
2nd: Don't read anything out of the Swiss company monitoring thats not there. They are not merging with anybody, at least it's not written there. It states the purpose of a company and its permissions. They have the right to merge, to buy, to expand. Thats it. No merger.
3rd: Don't compare primes with zooms. You should know that zooms, if not of the youngest age and engineering, are usually comparably minor due to their higher mechanical and especially optical demands, nearly impossible to achieve until the last decade, when optical engineering made a major leap.

[Sanjin Jukic]

I have to answer now. Leica makes beautifuil glass, yes. Period.

1st: Rehousing is a mechanical work. That does not cost "10x" of a lens. If you take THIS (http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/EF_Lenses/Fixed_Focal_Length/EF_1200mm_f56L_USM/) big Canon Tele, NO, the rehousing would NOT cost 900.000!
2nd: Don't read anything out of the Swiss company monitoring thats not there. They are not merging with anybody, at least it's not written there. It states the purpose of a company and its permissions. They have the right to merge, to buy, to expand. Thats it. No merger.
3rd: Don't compare primes with zooms. You should know that zooms, if not of the youngest age and engineering, are usually comparably minor due to their higher mechanical and especially optical demands, nearly impossible to achieve until the last decade, when optical engineering made a major leap.

OK I would not discuss some of your points here and now because I need more time for the research that I do not have at all.

But shortly I'm asking myself how Panavision did with ELCAN and recently how Dalsa did with Leica too.
Somebody would say that all those (Leica) lenses from Panavision and Dalsa are not for sale, that's true.
But I believe in a smell of money (a real business>>Money Makes The World Go Round) and if you want you could do it.
Only you have to pay for it and that's true again.

So take it or leave it.

[Steve Sanacore]

I have been using Leica R lenses on my Canon's for a few years and I can tell you with certainty - they are absolutely the finest optics made. Erwin Putts has a book that will teach you more about Leica optics then you will ever want to know. Worth a look if you are interested in why lens performance is so complex and difficult to design.

His web site is: http://www.imx.nl/photo/

I have two new Sigma Zooms and they are soft compared with Nikon or Canon, which in turn are soft compared to Leica :-)

I can't imagine a Sigma having the resolution for the RED at 4K.

Can't wait to try them all though....

[Sanjin Jukic]

I have been using Leica R lenses on my Canon's for a few years and I can tell you with certainty - they are absolutely the finest optics made. Erwin Putts has a book that will teach you more about Leica optics then you will ever want to know. Worth a look if you are interested in why lens performance is so complex and difficult to design.

His web site is: http://www.imx.nl/photo/

I have two new Sigma Zooms and they are soft compared with Nikon or Canon, which in turn are soft compared to Leica :-)

I can't imagine a Sigma having the resolution for the RED at 4K.

Can't wait to try them all though....

Steve thanks!

Great report and wish you the best with Leica R lenses on RED.

Also Erwin's page was already mentioned on this forum as Leica source. (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=105228&postcount=19)

[Steve Sanacore]

Yes, I have also been thinking about picking up a few more before Leica comes out with their new Digital SLR body next year, when the demand may creep up again.

But the real problem will be mixing the optics in the same project between different brand lenses. In the end I still think I will wind up with a set of matched cine lenses or rent them on a job by job basis. Cooke and Zeiss know their business well and hopefully the RED lenses will be a good option.

[Bruce Allen]

Sanjin, you are a crazy crazy fella but very passionate and observant too. I don't think Red needs Leicas to win an Oscar though ;)

I think Red is maybe unlikely to partner with Leica in the near future, because Dalsa has already partnered with Leica for their lenses... we had this discussion already? (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2997) Dalsa (despite making a 4K camera of their own) aren't Red-unfriendly - you could always rent theirs? Or better yet, use that nifty EOS adapter...

Maybe someone should learn how to re-house lenses... surely it can't be THAT expensive? Get some old used lenses and start practicing ;) Some Reduser hsould start a rehousing business...

...actually I bet it's harder than fixing one of those tricky little Swiss watches...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Sanjin Jukic]

Great Bruce.

Actually Dalsa did rehousing Leica R lenses just for their own Origin 4K camera and all you can rent. Not for sale.

Have a look below.

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Dalsa4Klenses.jpg

All this does not mean anything because one another company did PL convergion (P+S Technik (http://www.pstechnik.de/en/optics-leica.php)).

What I wanted to say that everybody interested could do it. Simply you buy a stock of Leica R lenses
from Leica Camera AG Solms Germany and rehouse it somewhere else.
Then you could sell or rent it's up to you.

And by the way of Swiss watches I do have one

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/jomashop_1976_205944773

Tag Heuer Carrera new model that is not working so perfect.
After that I do not believe in any Swiss perfectionism.

Hype is just hype.

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Great Bruce.

After that I do not believe in any Swiss perfectionism.

Hype is just hype.

I married a swiss… and I have to agree with you (but just this time, right?) :)

Emmanuel

[tj williams]

I just wanna put up a nice Leica lens and some diffusion to make it look more like a sigma.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I just wanna put up a nice Leica lens and some diffusion to make it look more like a sigma.

posts 666 ....:) congrats


i know it has nothing to do with the thread.

[Mark Pedersen]

Guys, I was interested in knowing about the performance of Red lenses compared to Cookes or Ziess. Not Leica. Or Nikon or Canon still lenses, etc. I own a set if Zeiss ZF still primes modified with focus rings that I used on a mini-35 and they are nice and sharp, but they are not cine lenses, and who wants to change mounts on a shoot?

Has anyone done optical bench tests, or can someone convey any practical, in field comparisons between Red lenses and Zeiss and/or Cooke regarding optical quality, CA, build quality, breathing, bokah, etc.. the things that matter when choosing a quality cine lens?? There was a great thread comparing Zeiss and Cooke, but nothing that I could find comparing them to Red lenses.

Bottom line, I really don't care where Red sources their glass or who they contract with to house or re-house glass as long as they build quality lenses that perform well and hold up to critical production demands over the years.

I think it's admirable that they are offering cine lenses at these price points, but I just want to what I'm buying, since there's precious little info in the store.

If Red is building lenses that compare well to the top lenses out there, then that's COOL! Knowing Jim's design philosophy, I assume they are, but I was looking for some third party analysis.

Thanks to anyone who can provide some perspective... :)

[Evin Grant]

So far the Red 18-50mm and 300mm have compared very well optically to the Zeiss and Cooke lenses. The 18-50 does breathe a little more than the primes but that's to be expected in a compact zoom. Nobody on this board save the Red team have ever touched a production Red prime so there really isn't any hard data on them yet. If they are anything like the 300mm prime though I'm sold.

[Alexander Nikishin]

I shot a commercial a little over a month ago on the RED / Cooke S4 prime set. During the shoot, I made sure to get in a small comparison shot for curiosity sake and found the difference between the two images discernable.

I must say, the build quality on the Cooke S4 set is top notch with buttery smooth focus/iris rings whereas the RED zoom has it's hiccups as would be expected from a $6,500 lens.

Never the less, I'm very confident in the quality of the RED 18-50. So much so that I don't find myself wanting to shoot on the S4's anymore. Rather, the lenses I find to be of value in particualr to RED are the Zeiss super speeds and Zeiss Master Primes due to their T1.3 speed and crispness.

Some may find the Master Primes to be too crisp but if that's the case, put on a soft pro mist filter, or if using RED Alert! use the leading lady output and give the image a bit more softness if needed.

[Evin Grant]

I can't imagine a Sigma having the resolution for the RED at 4K.

I'd bet you a beer it does. Almost every optic I've put on the Red out resolves the sensor easily. It's an interesting characteristic of the sensor but I've heard here (and belive) you probably don't need more than 100LP/mm to out resolve the sensor (despite the astounding rez of the image). Most 35mm optics, even cheap ones can achieve that. It's the other characteristics that are much harder to do, like CA control, breathing, contrst wide open and color uniformity. Not to mention build quality and focus throw. BTW that 18-50 Sigma has been reviewed very well by a number of reputable photo mags and online resources. And even leica and Zeiss have had thier duds, you just can't make blanket statements like the one above before actually getting some hands on time with the glass and a Red One.:shiftyph34r:

[Alexander Nikishin]

Even if it is a re-housed Sigma.....that sure says something about the prestige of "high-end" cine glass being that I find the images so much alike.

[Stephen Williams]

I heard Red lenses are Sigma, Nikon and Cooke so far. Anyone here who knows the truth ?

Hi,

The Red 18-50 is a Sigma for sure.
As for who converted them, thats another matter.

Stephen

[Jim McKinney]

. . . whereas the RED zoom has it's hiccups as would be expected from a $6,500 lens.

Do you mind sharing the specifics of these 'hiccups?' (Are you referring to the mechanical smoothness, and/or something else?)

Thanks in advance.

[Michael Hastings]

So far the Red 18-50mm and 300mm have compared very well optically to the Zeiss and Cooke lenses. The 18-50 does breathe a little more than the primes but that's to be expected in a compact zoom. Nobody on this board save the Red team have ever touched a production Red prime so there really isn't any hard data on them yet. If they are anything like the 300mm prime though I'm sold.

Doesn't gibby have a 300?

[Michael Schrengohst]

Doesn't gibby have a 300?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=105951#post105951

[Brook Willard]

Doesn't gibby have a 300?

Everybody has a 300... it's quite a popular lens. Testing the 300 will bring a smile to almost anybody's face... this thing is sharp from corner to corner. :)

[Alexander Nikishin]

Do you mind sharing the specifics of these 'hiccups?' (Are you referring to the mechanical smoothness, and/or something else?)

Thanks in advance.

Yes, the smoothness of the barrel pull isn't that of the Cooke S4 series, but where it lacks in that department it more than makes up for it in its price/performance.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Everybody has a 300... it's quite a popular lens. Testing the 300 will bring a smile to almost anybody's face... this thing is sharp from corner to corner. :)

Brook,

No doubts for that and I believe you 100%.

But go back to the "theory of RED lens rehousing kitchen":
RED 300mm f2.8 probably could not be rehoused Sigma 300mm f2.8 that cost a bit less than RED
lens or even rehoused Olympus ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 300mm f2.8 that costs a bit more than RED lens.

So what it should be?

The RED house made glass?!?!?!.

Or again should I go back to the "theory of RED lens rehousing kitchen"!?

With RED probably you get what you pay for.

In the case of the "theory of RED lens rehousing kitchen"
could be nice in a near future to see RED rehoused range of Leica R lenses.
Because it would be probably more affordable and easy to buy them.
Panavision Primo L Series that are rehoused Leica R lenses you could only rent.

At the end I wanted to say that Leica R lenses could add value to RED
and also that of course RED could add value to the line of Leica R lenses.

By the way I still stay with a couple of cheap vintage 35mm/16mm cine lenses and the mix of
diverse brands from 35mm still lenses for my little RED Lab.

All other lenses (RED, COOKE, ZEISS, ANGENIEUX, ETC...high-end cine lenses)
if I need I should or could rent it.:) :shiftyph34r:

[Noah Kadner]

Intriguing.:w00t: Though I'd prefer primes on the wide end- wonder what the price is.

-Noah

[Alexis Hanawalt]

We've been through this. Shoebox + pinhole + tape to front of camera = free lens.

[Brook Willard]

Brook,

No doubts for that and I believe you 100%.

But go back to the "theory of RED lens rehousing kitchen":
RED 300mm f2.8 probably could not be rehoused Sigma 300mm f2.8 that cost a bit less than RED
lens or even rehoused Olympus ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 300mm f2.8 that costs a bit more than RED lens.

So what it should be?

The RED house made glass?!?!?!.

Or again should I go back to the "theory of RED lens rehousing kitchen"!?

With RED probably you get what you pay for.

In the case of the "theory of RED lens rehousing kitchen"
could be nice in a near future to see RED rehoused range of Leica R lenses.
Because it would be probably more affordable and easy to buy them.
Panavision Primo L Series that are rehoused Leica R lenses you could only rent.

At the end I wanted to say that Leica R lenses could add value to RED
and also that of course RED could add value to the line of Leica R lenses.

By the way I still stay with a couple of cheap vintage 35mm/16mm cine lenses and the mix of
diverse brands from 35mm still lenses for my little RED Lab.

All other lenses (RED, COOKE, ZEISS, ANGENIEUX, ETC...high-end cine lenses)
if I need I should or could rent it.:) :shiftyph34r:

I'm not really sure what you mean here. I'm not saying that you should buy everything... I was merely commenting that there are lots of RED 300mm primes out there and lots people like 'em.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Brook,

As I said about high end cine lenses I will rent them.

Vintage cine lenses that I owe now is just to have a first look and try out.

With still photo lenses is about to do experimental work and really I do have
very good set of primes and zooms from a different lens makers starting with
Nikon, Canon, Zeiss, Leica, Cooke, Schneider-Kreuznach, Sigma, etc...

A lot of fun.

[Poi Boy]

Hi,

The Red 18-50 is a Sigma for sure.
As for who converted them, thats another matter.

Stephen

Why are you so sure Stephen ?
Aloha
-A

[John V]

Its always easy to point out differences in color and sharpness when it comes to a still picture from a lens. But when it comes down to it do the people sitting in a movie theatre see the difference in a moving picture? I still think that most lenses are overpriced because they can get it. lLow cost does not always mean inferior. High price does not always equal great.

On the issue of who makes what...does anyone think that RED make the lens..Jim has a great deal of knowledge when it comes to optics...Oakley anyone?

[Steve Sherrick]

Its always easy to point out differences in color and sharpness when it comes to a still picture from a lens. But when it comes down to it do the people sitting in a movie theatre see the difference in a moving picture?
It's not only the end result that counts. It's how you get there and cine lenses have advantages over still lenses for motion picture purposes because they are designed for motion pictures. That does come with a price. The beauty of the Red camera is the options. Shoot with PL mount, Nikon Mount, Birger mount, etc. Opens up all kinds of possibilities, so you can spend as much or as little as you want depending on your situation.

[Robert Jackson]

Is there anything different about this set than the normal Cooke i/lenses? And is $96,000 really the price for this set?


The only difference is the engraving, but you have to admit those lenses look really cool. Heh...

And the normal price through ZGC is $16,250 each for the primes and $47,500 for the zoom. So that's $96,250 for the set without the Red graphics. Looks like Cooke is giving a $250 discount to Red users. ;-)