Mixing cameras???

[Jason Francois]

Hello everybody,

I have a movie I'm producing that is being shot in New Jersey and Tokyo during 2008 and I need a bit of advice.

The movie will have three specific styles due to script and location requirements and I'm wondering if I will need to mix cameras.

First we will be shooting in Camden and need to give the footage a gritty, Super16-like feel. I figure we might be able to shoot on RED and do the dirty work in post on this one.

Second, we will be shooting mostly at night and interiors of Jazz clubs in Tokyo. For me the RED with wide-angles will make the most sense. Dark spaces, smoky rooms and not a lot of physical room to work with.

Last, we need to shoot exteriors. Mostly daytime in locations that we wont be able to control. Permits are very expensive and difficult to get from what I have heard up until now, so we'll be hooking up with a crew that is use to running-and-gunning around Tokyo. At this point I also think RED may ....and I said....may, be out of the question. In order to kit the RED up a bit I wonder if it won't be too conspicuous. I'm still thinking about it, but at this point I'm wondering if there might be a camera that would work to use, other than RED, for the exteriors??

Keep in mind that we will eventually be going to a film out on this.

Any thoughts about what camera might work to cut in with the RED footage that won't be too obvious on the streets of Tokyo?

Thanks for your time and thoughts,

Jason

[IAN SUN]

SI 2K Mini.

[Gunleik Groven]

If you're talking smaller, then the SI2k mini might be an option.

If you're talking "better at holding highlights and hash exposure conditions", from what I've seen thus far, 35mm isn't really not moving yet.

Gunleik

[Paul Watt]

Bolex s16, haha
Aatton minima
if the s16 is enough for you.
can't think of a 35 that's that discreet

[Poi Boy]

go with red, it will give you all the looks. the tough one will be run and gun; get a strong dp.
Aloha
-A

[Jason Francois]

Thanks guys. i really want to avoid film just because of the workflow issue, but I had kicked it around my head a bit.

Didn't even think about the Silicon Imagining. If I remember your tethered to a bit of gear???? but I'll look back into it.

Of course, I'm still wondering just how stripped i could get the RED. Put some of the other goodies in a backpack or something.

Thanks again.

[Jason Francois]

Yes, gunleik, the harsh conditions and contrasts of sky, buildings and shadows is definitely and issue.

[Paul Leeming]

Don't worry about the Red being too conspicuous here in Tokyo, there are always TV and doco crews wandering around shooting stuff. No one from the public will bat an eyelid, unless you have the full production thing going on with dollies, lights etc. If you are run and gun you'll be fine.

Also have a look at Gibby's EFP setup, that could be an option as well in making yourself and your crew look more like a TV crew than a movie crew.

Give me a buzz or email when you get closer to production, as I'll have multiple Reds here and be available in case of any problems, or if you need additional cameras or B unit stuff shot.

HTH

Paul

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Yes the SI2K itself is small but what is he to record to? He still want it to be run and gun. I don't know that much about the camera but I do know you need a recorder. Is that one small?


fred

[Dominic Jones]

can't think of a 35 that's that discreet
Arri 235's pretty compact - problem is, as soon as you get a film camera out anywhere, it just screams pro shoot. Tough to get away with claiming you're film students in another country, too - how's your Japanese?!

Also, if you do go the 35mm route, remember you'll need to have a loader changing mags somewhere discreetly (maybe the back of a van), and pretty often if you're on a 235 with small rolls.

Just a couple of thoughts...

[Evin Grant]

If you attach a small prime and clip on mattebox to the Red, strap the battery to your belt and try to stay handheld using the LCD you might just get under the radar. Try to have your cameraman operate from under his arm which will help to hide the size of the body. It's totally doable.

[Jason Francois]

Thanks Paul, Fred, Dominic and Evin.

I know that myself as well as everybody here would like to hear that RED is the way to go. :) I'm going to continue to noodle on it.

I'll have to get to Tokyo for a good scouting session before final determination is made. I'm hoping to push back until sometime around August (need to look at the almanac) so to have plenty of time to take a couple of trips there. I'll surely be in touch Paul. I did hear the same thing that you're saying....that there are people everywhere with cameras and not just consumer cameras.

Another thing is that we WILL be run and gun, but we will still need to have a tripod at times. Still working on what we can get away with.

Good call on a loader for 35mm Dominic. I'm not going to avoid having SOME crew, but it will be trimmed down on the streets.


I guess I should call this CREW-light rather than true run and gun, because tucking the cam under arm may work a for some of the shots, but some will need to be a bit more deliberate at others.

Thanks again everybody.

[Mick van Rossum, NSC]

Arri 235's pretty compact - problem is, as soon as you get a film camera out anywhere, it just screams pro shoot. Tough to get away with claiming you're film students in another country, too - how's your Japanese?!

Also, if you do go the 35mm route, remember you'll need to have a loader changing mags somewhere discreetly (maybe the back of a van), and pretty often if you're on a 235 with small rolls.

Just a couple of thoughts...

I did a commercial in Tokyo last year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yCmC6TXcDY about halfway there is the stuff from Tokyo. We shot Arri 235 with primes, no sound, director, me, AC, agency and a local producer. No permission ,acting like we were a documentary crew, shooting on Shibuya crossing with 30 extras. No problems, once we were in the Shibuya station, we were sent away, but had the shot we needed. Actually I am in Tokyo right now, shooting the same kind of setups with a Bolex, and will shoot a documentary on the streets of Tokyo in January with my Red. as far a I know both crews from Babel and Lost in Translation were chased away in those places, but if you are carefull, you will be fine, is n't it Paul ?

Good luck
Mick van Rossum nsc

[Jason Francois]

Thanks Mick. Great spot. Very infectious and fun and large-scale.

It's comforting to know that there are a group of talented people on this board familiar with Tokyo. I hope to meet up with some Tokyo-versed filmmakers when I get there.

Best,

Jason

[Rocco Schult]

the SI is a nice little cam. makes goos pictures. You need at least a laptop or some kind to hook up to via GigE and monitoring to be solved. Or you might have the OLED viewfinder that was presented at IBC.
I think it could be a good complement to RED, though it might have different looks. But thats what you're looking for, right ?

[Jason Francois]

the SI is a nice little cam. makes goos pictures. You need at least a laptop or some kind to hook up to via GigE and monitoring to be solved. Or you might have the OLED viewfinder that was presented at IBC.
I think it could be a good complement to RED, though it might have different looks. But thats what you're looking for, right ?

We are looking for different looks, but I don't want the interior and exterior shots to scream that they are from different cameras. The inside will be smoky and dark so the outside will be different anyway. I don't want it to be a thing where people go "that looks like it was shot on film and that looks like it was shot on video".

The only thing I'm seeing about the SI is having to be tethered. That may make it worth just shooting with RED and calling it good. I'm leaning towards that, but won't make up my mind for a while.

thanks,

J.

[Dominic Cochran]

go with red, it will give you all the looks. the tough one will be run and gun; get a strong dp.
Aloha
-A

I would either go with the Red or 235, but I had to laugh a little at needing a strong DP. This is one of the benefits of Red to me, I used to have to handhold 435's and even 535's (ouch). Red should be really perfect for handheld if rigged properly!

Have fun in Tokyo!

[Paul Leeming]

I did a commercial in Tokyo last year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yCmC6TXcDY about halfway there is the stuff from Tokyo. We shot Arri 235 with primes, no sound, director, me, AC, agency and a local producer. No permission ,acting like we were a documentary crew, shooting on Shibuya crossing with 30 extras. No problems, once we were in the Shibuya station, we were sent away, but had the shot we needed. Actually I am in Tokyo right now, shooting the same kind of setups with a Bolex, and will shoot a documentary on the streets of Tokyo in January with my Red. as far a I know both crews from Babel and Lost in Translation were chased away in those places, but if you are carefull, you will be fine, isn't it Paul?I think the trick is to get a permit, then as a first port of call where you want to shoot, go over to the local "Koban" or Police Box and show them your permit and explain what you will be doing. If you have them on side then everything else is golden. Shibuya Crossing is one of the most photographed places in Tokyo with THOUSANDS of people passing through every minute of the day, so it can be very hard to find a good vantage point, but it is possible ;)

http://www.visceralpsyche.com/misc/web_images/IMG_2248_shibuya.jpg

I'll be offering liaison services early next year to make this sort of stuff as easy as possible for visiting filmmakers so insanityfw, when you get closer to your scouting trip email me and we can maybe help put something together, or at worst just go out for a beer or two!

Cheers,

Paul

[Jason Francois]

Can't wait for the liaison services Paul. It's just in time for what we will be needing....and thanks for the pic. I have a feeling that a liaison will become one of the most important roles on this film, because of our limited budget, time and knowledge of the area. The writer/director has spent time there, which is where the concept came from, but he's never shot a movie there.

I heard that permits are very hard and expensive to get? That's why a lot of people shoot without them.

I hope to be seeing you in December or January for my first scouting trip. If you're around, I'll definitely call you. I'm going to need to get a couple of camera's together if we shoot RED, so we can talk about that as well.

Also, I'll keep in touch to see if you do any test shots that I might be able to take a look at, once you get your cams.

Best,

Jason


I think the trick is to get a permit, then as a first port of call where you want to shoot, go over to the local "Koban" or Police Box and show them your permit and explain what you will be doing. If you have them on side then everything else is golden. Shibuya Crossing is one of the most photographed places in Tokyo with THOUSANDS of people passing through every minute of the day, so it can be very hard to find a good vantage point, but it is possible ;)

http://www.visceralpsyche.com/misc/web_images/IMG_2248_shibuya.jpg

I'll be offering liaison services early next year to make this sort of stuff as easy as possible for visiting filmmakers so insanityfw, when you get closer to your scouting trip email me and we can maybe help put something together, or at worst just go out for a beer or two!

Cheers,

Paul

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

haha, I love the idea of professional filmmakers shooting without permits. Sometimes, you do what you gotta do, doesn't mean it's a great idea necessarily but the budget might just not allow for permits if they are unreasonable. You have to figure out what risk you are willing to take, I suppose. I'd always have a backup plan in case of disaster, though.

Don't shoot with film, what a pain in the ass, you're trying to run and gun, you can't bring a film camera to do that. Leave film where it belongs -- in the 20th century with other outdated but previously useful technology. ;)

[Stephen Williams]

Don't shoot with film, what a pain in the ass, you're trying to run and gun, you can't bring a film camera to do that. Leave film where it belongs -- in the 20th century with other outdated but previously useful technology. ;)

Hi Jonathan,

Funny thing is my film cameras start as soon as power is applied, sounds quite important when you're in a hurry.

Stephen

[Jason Francois]

Good thoughts. We will have backups. If nothing else we'll have a great bunch of wide, establishing shots with no actors. :)

Like you said, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I'm still looking into permits, but I'm not holding my breath.

RED will more than likely be used on a good portion of this film.

I am still a big lover of film. Started with it and will still use it when I feel it's right, but what better place than Tokyo to be shooting HD or even better, 4k. :) Just seems like a technological place. Hong Kong is next on my list. :)

best,

Jason


haha, I love the idea of professional filmmakers shooting without permits. Sometimes, you do what you gotta do, doesn't mean it's a great idea necessarily but the budget might just not allow for permits if they are unreasonable. You have to figure out what risk you are willing to take, I suppose. I'd always have a backup plan in case of disaster, though.

Don't shoot with film, what a pain in the ass, you're trying to run and gun, you can't bring a film camera to do that. Leave film where it belongs -- in the 20th century with other outdated but previously useful technology. ;)

[Greg M]

Don't shoot with film, what a pain in the ass, you're trying to run and gun, you can't bring a film camera to do that. Leave film where it belongs -- in the 20th century with other outdated but previously useful technology. ;)

your posts always seem to amuse me :tongue:

[mezmo]

haha, I love the idea of professional filmmakers shooting without permits. Sometimes, you do what you gotta do, doesn't mean it's a great idea necessarily but the budget might just not allow for permits if they are unreasonable. You have to figure out what risk you are willing to take, I suppose. I'd always have a backup plan in case of disaster, though.

Don't shoot with film, what a pain in the ass, you're trying to run and gun, you can't bring a film camera to do that. Leave film where it belongs -- in the 20th century with other outdated but previously useful technology. ;)

Sorry Jonathan ,
The only pain in the ass with film is if YOU don't know how to use it.
A 3 perf Arri235 or Super16SR, radio mikes, would kill this job in a heartbeat.
The guy wants a film look. Shoot film. Datacine or scan for a datacentric
post workflow similar to Red's, (still in development i might add).
Jason,
Run and Gun with Red, FOCUS will be your enemy.
Use it in the more controlled interior situations, It's fast
(effective ASA 320) and seems to behave well in low light conditions.
Using B4 lenses/+ adapter for a job that will go filmout ????
Don't go there. Have fun in Tokyo, not a heart attack.
Mezmo

[Paul Leeming]

I hope to be seeing you in December or January for my first scouting trip. If you're around, I'll definitely call you. I'm going to need to get a couple of camera's together if we shoot RED, so we can talk about that as well.

Also, I'll keep in touch to see if you do any test shots that I might be able to take a look at, once you get your cams.Sounds good, I'll be here. My first camera (#378) will be arriving around the same time as your #366 and yes, I'll be posting some Japanese footage as soon as I get it!

Cheers,

Paul