Extreme wide angle lense

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

So what are our options when going for a extreme wide angle lense?

This is the only thing i can find:
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3301&navigator=6

Which might be not too bad but it slightly slow.

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

Wait a second.
The 10-20 mm covers up to 102.4 degrees.
But the 12-24 mm covers up to 122 degrees!

What am i missing here?

[Ken Corben]

I am not a lens expert like we have on this forum but I did read the fine print on the Sigma 10-20:

* Vignetting will occur if the lens is used with digital cameras with image sensors larger than APS-C size or 35mm SLR cameras.

AND the Nikon 12-24mm:

Don't use it (12-24mm) on a film camera or a 24 x 36mm CCD digital camera like the old Kodak 14n. This lens cannot fill the entire frame of a 35mm camera and will give a semicircular image in the middle of the frame of film or big CCD.


I am debating the best lens choice to build a Red 4K underwater housing on sooner than later and seem to be stuck on either Nikon 17-35mm or Nikkor 14mm.

14mm reviews:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1428.htm
http://www.naturfotograf.com/14nikkor_review.html

17-35mm review:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1735.htm

Sharky

[Teague Kennedy]

Here's a post made by matt uhry when I asked same question:


Try a Peleng 8mm, you can get them quite cheaply on ebay with a PL mount. I have one in PL and one in Nikon. I shot a Honda Insight commercial with it, which is still on my reel. The Nikon one will sometimes clip the mirror shutter on the d70 camera so be carefull when you put it on the first time.

It's a FISHEYE. no attempt has been made to correct distortion. it prettymuch covers academy 1.85 which is about what you will need for the red 4k. Better coverage than the nikon 8mm.

I projected one at clairmont, it was giving 200lp/mm in center and 140 at the edge which is damm good.

[Teague Kennedy]

I for one hope Red makes a super-wide. That would be very nice.

[Ken Corben]

$250 on ebay! Wow...were you happy with the results?

[Teague Kennedy]

I hope I was clear in giving credit for that post to Matt Uhry. He may not be paying attention to this thread. He's the one who tested the lens.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Vignetting, barrel distortions, ghosting and extremly CA all you get with most wide-angle lenses. About the prime lenses I will choose between these two solid performers

Tokina AF 17mm f/3.5 AT-X Pro

http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/tokina_17_35/lens.jpg

Review
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/tokina_17_35/index.htm


Or "The World's Widest SLR Lens"
Voigtländer Heliar 12mm f/5.6
with amazing 121 degree view


http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_asan6m4dwd.html/$file/12mmheliarschwarz.jpg

Read Luminous Landscape review

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/12mm.shtml

Original Voigtlaender web page
http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_asan6m4dwd.html

[Alex Boothby]

If money is no object (ha!) this is by far the coolest wide angle I've seen:

http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/ultra_prime_r8/ultra_prime_r8.htm

The Zeiss Ultra Prime 8R (8mm rectilinear lens). Try to view the sample footage or click this:

http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/tutorials/rectilinear-fishey/rectilinear-fishey.html

Because money IS the object I'll be buying the Peleng

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

The vignetting is not a problem. Any lense designed for digital SLR should work with the RED One, since the CCD is about the same size.

I dont want, and manyothers dont want a fish eye.

Also, we are talking about a extreme wide angle. A 17mm is not a very wide angle lense.

ciaO!

[Sanjin Jukic]

The vignetting is not a problem. Any lense designed for digital SLR should work with the RED One, since the CCD is about the same size.

I dont want, and manyothers dont want a fish eye.

Also, we are talking about a extreme wide angle. A 17mm is not a very wide angle lense.

ciaO!

OK Macgregor, per your request

"The World's Widest Lens"
Voigtländer Heliar 12mm f/5.6
with amazingly 121 degree view


http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_asan6m4dwd.html/$file/12mmheliarschwarz.jpg

Read Luminous Landscape review

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/12mm.shtml

Original Voigtlaender web page
http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_asan6m4dwd.html

Keep in mind AGAIN you don't get wider non-fisheye SLR lens. Just about extremes. Also it has Nikon F mount as an option.

Tomorrow I am about to look at it and maybe to get this lens. If it works I will include it in my short videos "Nikkors and non-Nikkors lens" tests for upcoming the RED ONE. Tell you later is it work with digital SLRs.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Reserve option 2

but only if we get Leica-R or Canon EOS (simplified) to the RED ONE mount wih Leica-R adaper

Leica Super Wide Angle 15mm f/2.8 Super Elmarit R Manual Focus Lens

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/243661.jpg

Original lens page

http://www.leica-camera.us/photography/r_system/lenses/503.html

US $ price page

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=7089&A=details&Q=&sku=243661&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

[Teague Kennedy]

I do want a fisheye, too. I want barrel distortion.

[Sanjin Jukic]

I do want a fisheye, too. I want barrel distortion.

You've got it...see the two posts above.

[Stephen Williams]

The vignetting is not a problem. Any lense designed for digital SLR should work with the RED One, since the CCD is about the same size.

ciaO!

Hi Mac,

That is correct but be aware that some lenses that work with film and a full size frame could vignette on a digital sensor because the rays of light on older lenses are not totally collimated. It's not an issue with film the angle that light hits the film plane, with a digital sensor or mini 35 adapter it is!

Stephen

[Policar]

That Arri 8mm lens looks amazing; how much does it cost?

To be honest, though, 18mm is wide enough for almost all purposes. Beyond that, rental might be a better option.

[Sanjin Jukic]

That Arri 8mm lens looks amazing; how much does it cost?

To be honest, though, 18mm is wide enough for almost all purposes. Beyond that, rental might be a better option.


Agree.

[Sanjin Jukic]

To continue info about
Voigtlaender Ultra Wide Heliar 12 mm
there are more user reviews here

http://www.apogeephoto.com/dec2000/Voigtlander_ultra.shtml

http://clemens-and.nihongonauts.com/?cat=1

Photo samples to get an idea how it makes ultra wide angle

http://www.apogeephoto.com/dec2000/CG_prahran.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/346644961_fb86de858c.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gullevek/346644279/in/set-72157594458892859/

http://clemens-and.nihongonauts.com/?p=397#more-397

[Sanjin Jukic]

Ultra Wide Angle Zooms for DSLRs by Gisle Hannemyr

"This is a link farm, linking to all online reviews of ultra-wide rectilinear zooms for digital SLRs I am aware of. I have listed zooms that cover a wider field of view (FOV) than 100 degrees. This will be 18 mm for full frame (aka. "135-format "), 12 mm for the DX-format, and wider than 9 mm for Four-thirds."

More

http://hannemyr.com/photo/uwaz.html

[Stephen Williams]

That Arri 8mm lens looks amazing; how much does it cost?


Hi,

19,950 euro LOL!

http://www.arri.de/prod/cam/2006_05-15_ARRI_Camera_Price_List.pdf

Stephen

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi,

19,950 euro LOL!

http://www.arri.de/prod/cam/2006_05-15_ARRI_Camera_Price_List.pdf

Stephen

For a poor-man RED shooter available for rent only. At the end not so bad.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Digging deeper in ultra wide angle lenses topic I found interesting text by Dutch photographer Erwin Puts:

"The focal lengths from 15mm to 21mm offer many interpretative opportunities for interesting images. One should realize however, that an angle of view of about 100°, is quite challenging from the viewpoint of perspective and subject. Optically the design of a very wide angle lens, is equally demanding. The very wide angle introduces many daunting aberrations, that need attention and the cosine-fourth-effect brings lots of vignetting. To make the problem manageable, the designers at first opted for a fully symmetrical design, as in this case several aberrations cancel out each other, simplifying the task. But a symmetrical design implies that the focal length is the same as the physical lens, bringing the lens very close to the film plane. That is OK for a rangefinder, (within limits!), but not practical for a SLR-camera, where a swinging mirror needs space too."
From "Leica Lens Compendium (revised and updated text)", page 136

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/ebooks/llcforweb.doc

After that I gave up idea to get Voigtländer 5.6/12mm Ultra wide Heliar because also didn't like extreme un-natural distortions, found it is not so useful for the movies when camera moves than an audiece could get dizzy. That I read "Wide-angle hall of fame" by 16-9.net were is written that:

"Among the wide angles, Leica and Zeiss rule the roost; whether your favour the Leica's nicer colour rendering and lower distortion, or the Zeiss' superior contrast, resolution and 3D quality depends on your subject matter and personal preference...However, Nikon's 17-35mm AF-S is not only beautifully made, unlike the Canon wide angles, it truly merits its price tag, and at the time of writing must be considered one of the most cost-effective and undervalued wide angle solutions available."

http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/best19_21.html

My dilemma now is Leica Elmarit 21 mm or Nikon Zoom AF-S 17-35mm.

Than I said the first option is always prime lens, zoom should be always
an alternative solution and than had a look at
Leica Super Wide Angle 21mm f/2.8 Elmarit M

Official page

http://www.leica-camera.us/photography/m_system/lenses/460.html

http://www.leica-camera.us/assets/media/img1508.jpg
Malibu, Sunrise

US $ price page

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=7074&A=details&Q=&sku=141649&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/141649.jpg

I was always impressed with Leica high quality lenses and pictures.
Have a look below at the Erwin Puts's Dutch blond beauty shot with Leica.
Amazing!!!

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/pictures/pictures/picture-5.jpg

Sorry it is not extreme wide angle example but forgive me, this Dutch girl is hot.

Tomorrow I will check it out is this ultra-wide lens with imaging angle of 92° work with my Leica M/VISO adapter to Nikon F or Canon EOS. If not I go for Nikon 17-35mm zoom (104° to 62°).

Stay tuned.

[Sanjin Jukic]

I am sorry because of my boring stories about a wide angle lens issue (extreme or not) but after slept overnight in the morning decided to go for Nikon Zoom AF-S Nikkor 17-35 1:2.8 D ED. I found used one here in Vienna for € 1.100 (about US $ 1.400). Now I finish with buying more lenses for the moment till the RED ONE ships. So all that means my widest shooting angle will be 104° with 17mm from Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8 Zoom to 13°40 with Zeiss Sonar 180mm f/2.8.

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Nikon_17-35.jpg
Picture shot with Leica Summicron 90 mm f/2 with Leica-VISO to Nikon F/EOS adapter on Canon 30D.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Sanjin,

I think you'll really like the Nikon 17-25mm. It's a beautiful lens!

Although, this thread was great... I had never taken a look at the specs for the Arri UP 8R or any footage from it. Amazing! I may have to rent one some day. :)

[Sanjin Jukic]

Thanks AppliedVisual,

Nikon 17-35 Zoom is already on camera with M2. Beautiful as you said. I think I had a good deal. My tests are coming soon or probably from the next week, depends on weather conditions here for outdoor shots. One more photo>>

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Nikon_17-35_M2_1.jpg

[Ken Corben]

Any chance you can throw a Century HD .8 converter on the Nikon 17-35mm for tests. Very interested in vignetting, ghosting etc for applications in an underwater housing.

Nikon 17mm is equivalent to [1.62 x 17mm = 27.54mm] x .8 converter = 22mm or Nikon 14mm equivalent coverage in 4k Red Raw.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Not so sure, with Nikon lenses compatibility is possible only with Nikon converters but for wide angle lenses there are no any.

[Evin Grant]

the .8 is a wide converter that fits on the front of the lens, I'm pretty sure it would not be acceptable quality for 4K but it might work for 1080.
http://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecommerce/site/images/Photo2/0WA-8XIF-20.jpg
You'd be better served getting either the Nikon or Tamron 14mm 2.8.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/162054.jpg

[Walter R]

Hi,

What about the Kinoptik 9.8mm lens (covers 35). I think it was used in The Shining for the Maze scene, used extensively for Soy Cuba and you can see some footage online in a spot by Geoff Boyle at: http://www.cinematography.net/GEOFF/MBC%20qt.HTM.

You can find an arri standard mount version which you can have converted for unde $1000 if you look long and hard enough.

A fun lens.

[Teague Kennedy]

I worry that 12 or 13mm will not be that wide once you have it on the Red (22.2 inch window for 4k recording) For a super wide we may need 8mm.

[Ken Corben]

OK,

I wasn't going to embarass the RED community, or my reputation, and show up on the set of Indiana Jones IV sporting RED #1438 with a Nikon 17-35mm and a $595 .8 converter. "No Steven, it really does shoot 4K."

"Check the gate!" (That would be the one I am being shown the way out).

hehe..

However, for an underwater ONLY solution I am curious if the new Century HD .8 converter will work on the 17-35mm so I have more possibilities than just the 14mm. I don't think I can fit an entire white shark, 15 feet long, in the frame at a nominal distance of 6-10 feet in 4K no matter what lens?

I am looking to pros like Evin for a solution that isn't $20K+ for the glass. I think the entire red community is waiting with baited breath for Evin's 17-35mm tests to be posted. I know I am.

Thanks for all the outstanding effort thus far,

Sharky

Century HD .8 Description:
The new compact and lightweight .8x HD Wide Angle Converter screws onto the front of a 72MM DV/HDV camera zoom lens, effectively shortening its focal length while maintaining full zoom capabilities. Attach the compact .8x HD Wide Angle Converter to the front of a lens for 20% more coverage when set to wide angle, telephoto or anywhere in between. This can be especially advantageous when shooting in tight quarters.
Features:?• Low Cost HD Quality?• Lightweight - Almost half the size and weight of other available wide angle attachments ?• Compact Size & Full Zoom-through ?• Universal 72MM Screw-on?• Front filter thread of 86mm. Schneider 86mm Clear filter available.?• Fits 72MM DV/HDV Cameras, Sony HVR-Z1U & HDR-FX1, Panasonic AG DVX100A & 100, Canon XL2 20X AF Lens and many more

[Evin Grant]

I know the 17-35 review is a big deal, I'm picking it up from ACS tomorrow but I have a short film and some other shooting this week so it's still gonna be a week+ I apologise but I've gotta make as much green as I can so I can pimp out my Red package by NAB. Hopefully the'll ship around then.

[Ken Corben]

I honestly don't know the answer to the difference between this Zeiss 18mm with a Zeiss Aspheron 14mm screwed on the front as compared to the Nikon 17-35mm w/Century HD .8 in terms of optical applicability for RED 4K?

Be gentle please...

[J. Bernard Vallon]

When i'm running around with my APS sized nikon, my 17mm is almost always wide enough for what i need. I cant see myself needing anything wider than a 14mm, which is what i'm probably going to end up getting.

[Ken Corben]

I love this...CKBK, a research and development optics spin off from the Russian military, produces fast ultra wide lenses that are supposedly Cooke equivalents. They may not be pretty but if the resolution specs and prices are true then WOW!

Photographical resolving power....60 lines per mm at center of lens and 22 lines per mm at corner of gate (fixed distance).

Manufacturer.......................... CKBK
Focal length...........................10.2mm
Actual aperture.............................. 1:3.0
Angle of coverage(Lens angle ).......115'
Transmittance factor.......................0.75
Diffusion coefficient........................0.025
Length of the lens.............................71.5mm
Most diameter of the optical block...96mm
Size of the frame......................16 x 22mm,
Weight............................................ .0.5 kg,

[Teague Kennedy]

Looks cool. I don't suppose anyone will make a Konvas adapter, though.

[Matt Uhry]

You can see some shots taken with the CKBK 10mm here:

http://fuzby.com/viewvacation.html

The CKBK 10mm is kind of a bargain at the prices it sells for. I think the only rectilinear lens near it's price is the kinoptic 9.8mm.

It's an easy conversion to PL mount.
Fixed Focus !

It has decent rectilinear characteristics, a bit of barrel distortion.
Not especially high resolution.
Low-ish contrast and poor handling of highlights. Looks like you are using a Fog #1

Matt Uhry
www.fuzby.com

[Evin Grant]

Matt, you are the master of Russian optics. When I get my Red we're going to have to put on some of that Rusky glass of yours and see how it does.
E.

[Matt Uhry]

Matt, you are the master of Russian optics. When I get my Red we're going to have to put on some of that Rusky glass of yours and see how it does.
E.

I don't have that much, most of the wild and strange Russian stuff belongs to a director friend of mine who shopped for unique optics obsessively for a few years. ( and with some killer results I might add )

I typically rent @ Panavision when in LA and Arri / Cooke s4's / Angenieux Optimos when overseas.

M