What's your take on Zeiss Compact Primes?

[Lewis-M Soucy]

They're light, small, pretty fast and quite cheap. I'm really considering going lightweight with my Epic.

I'm considering them a lot lately...

http://www.cameraaccess.com/camera/media/catalog/category/file_24.jpg

[Rob Castiglione]

I am interested as well. The main thing for me is the aesthetic look. They certainly make a lot of sense on the Epic because of their size and weight and the fact that they are full frame. However, the main thing is how they look i.e. the aesthetics of the look they produce. Will they be too sharp on the Epic?

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Will they be too sharp on the Epic?


These are DSLR glass rehoused.

They certainly won't be too sharp - although I don't know how a lens could be. If a lens is too sharp for what you are doing, then drop a filter on it.

Just remember though you can make a lens softer on set with filtration or in post, but you can't make it sharper. Hopefully this will obviate that question in the future.

They are not as sharp as the Arri/Zeiss Master Primes, that much is certain.

[Nils J. Nesse]

If they only were T2.1 across the set...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The 18mm sucks. Zeiss is designing a new one, no ETA yet... Probably at least a year or more away.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

They're light, small, pretty fast and quite cheap. I'm really considering going lightweight with my Epic.

I'm considering them a lot lately...

The Zeiss lenses are GREAT glass for the price.

My issues are that they are a bit slow. and they have a non-uniform t stop.

For cinema use I like the Red Pro Primes better over all.

The main issue with the RPP vs the Compact Primes is that the RPP are heavier, and larger. Also the focus marks are off a bit on the RPP. You can have them remarked/adjusted and have new rings installed at Duclos lenses for a reasonable price.

You should also consider the Cook Panchro/i lenses. Those lenses are slower at a uniform t/2.8, but they are remarkable nevertheless.

(I'd be much happier with the Cooke S5/i as my working set, because I like opening nice and wide ... but like the Master Primes and the Leica Summilux-C that is a whole other league.)

You should also have a look at some somewhat older Zeiss superspeeds. You can get a decent t/1.3 set of Mk 3 lenses for not too much more than the cost of the full set of the CP.2

You should also try and check out some of the Illumina lenses. T/1.3 set of 5 lenses just under $30000. A bit more than the CP set, but t/1.3. I'd expect to have to shoot those around t/2 for most work, but having the option to open up makes me happy.

Now part of my still developing style is that I shoot a bit more open than a typical cinematographer. I like to work around 2.8 for most indoors work, but I definitely do open to t/2 a bit, and I like to work around in the typical indoor split (t4-5.6) outdoors.

For night shots, I like to take a stop off those numbers. Hence my interest in very fast lenses.

Most cinematographers shoot everything a stop or two slower than I like to work... so many are very happy with the Panchros at t/2.8 or quality zooms which often let you shoot t/2.8 as well.

Getting back to the Zeiss CP.2 set, I'd almost definitely skip the Zeiss 18mm at t/3.5. This is extra "bad" as the wide shots where you are likely to use it are the ones you'll have the most difficulty putting light into. So, even if you are happy working at 2.8, I'd grab the RPP 18mm instead.

[Lee Saxon]

The 18mm sucks.

I don't love the 18 (I don't love any of them except the 21 and maybe the macro 50), but if we're gonna single one out for suckitude it should be the 28.

[Tom.Wong]

things to like about them... they are SUPER light, like a feather light. great for handheld and etc. where u need to keep the weight down.

the lenses aren't bad, they are plenty sharp, decent contrast. they are a decent set for personal owners, but don't expect them to ever rent. i haven't met anybody ever really interested in renting them, they are just kind of kitted with the owner. they don't do you bad though.

but they are unmatched not just in speed, but color is way off too between the lenses, especially with the faster lenses wide open. that's why they made the cp2's actually (one of the reasons) they slowed down the set so they could match better.

they are also full frame, so when monstro FF comes around if nothing else is out yet, these are the go to PL lenses. but honestly as I've said, they are just get the job done lenses. they won't give you a bad image, they'll look good, but there isn't anything horribly special about them either.

a better bang for the buck in the same price range might be the RPP's. more options, matched in speed. but if you need light and compact, these are a good choice.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I don't love the 18 (I don't love any of them except the 21 and maybe the macro 50), but if we're gonna single one out for suckitude it should be the 28.

Fair enough... I haven't used the 28. lol.

IMO, if you want this glass, buy the ZF set from Duclos. It's just under $9K and has de-clicked irises and gears attached, all tuned and in a nice case. Nikon F mount. If you're going for Epic or other system with a Canon mount, he could probably do you the ZE's instead and then the focus rotation would go the "cinema" way.

As others have pointed out, these lenses are built well with good mechanics. They cover FF35. They use the same primary optical elements used in the ZF and ZE SLR primes, but they have a different iris and different mechanical internals. To say they are simply re-housed is unfair, because they are not.

The biggest complaint is the mis-matched wide apertures across the set. The 50 and 85 apertures have been crippled from the first release. They advertise the set as being T2.1, but it's not. Some lenses are faster, some are slower. Not all of them have even field illumination or sharpness.

If you don't need to cover FF35 and you want nice, compact cinema lenses for about the same money, take a look at the Cooke i/Panchros. They are just plain awesome. T2.8 across the set. Tack sharp, that creamy Cooke bokeh, /i data support, good size and weight. They're just nice lenses.

[Timur Civan]

I have a set of CP's here... gimme a couple days to run em through the ringer i'lll write something comprehensive up.

[Brent .T]

Lewis
How about something like 4 RPP's & 3 CP2's and intercut them. 18, 21, 25, 28, 35, 50, 85 .
The RPP's being 18, 25, 50, 85. They all cover 5K

Total price: US $ 26,850

You could use the CP2's for steadycam , light, run 'n' gun while the RPP's keep a projects image quality high.

just a thought ....

Brent

[Rob Castiglione]

Look forward to that Tim. That is what we need a comprehensive review.

[Evin Grant]

We had a set of the original Compact Primes at SALT back in 2009 (Has it really been that long?) anyway the glass in the CP.2s is the same, here are our thoughts back then...

Me:
"The Zeiss Compacts preformed well but not extraordinary compared to the other new glass around. Although they did show nice contrast and bokeh they all had a tendency to flare in a strange star patten. They are very light though and cover the full 24x36mm still frame. It would also be nice if the wides were faster."

David Mullen:
The slight star filter effect from the Cooke S4’s iris blades was distinctive. Oddly enough, the Zeiss Compacts, which have a lot of iris blades, also had somewhat of a star filter effect, just a star with a lot more points.

Matt Duclos:
The Zeiss Compact Primes performed just as I expected. Again, considering the price, you get what you pay for. If you're looking for a set of lenses for steady cam or handheld work, consider these lenses an excellent option. Compared to the new crop of primes, these little guys are a breeze to work with. Their resolution was slightly lower than I had hoped for, but they made up for it in their contrast. Their mechanics are classic Zeiss; smooth, solid, and repeatable. Very nice fit and finish. All the lenses use the exact same outside dimensions, which is nice when you want to change focal lengths but keep the same setup. Their iris blades were almost a perfect circle at every stop. The set's variance in speed is a huge caveat. Especially the wide end at T3.5.

Matt Uhry:
Zeiss Compacts T1.5 - T3.4 Very Nice Mechanics and Markings. Disappointing performance wide open on the fast ones. Uneven color matching and flare characteristics throughout the set. They look decent at 2.8 but so does most everything else... Cover Full frame.

Brook Willard:

These lenses are a strange bunch. I don't really know what to make of them. On one hand, they're very pretty lenses that perform fairly well. On the other hand, they don't match at all. It's bizarre.

Optically, they're sharp and fairly appealing. The faster lenses are a bit of a bummer when wide open, which really makes them slower in practice. That said, because the slowest lens is T3.4... you'll need to gear your lighting package accordingly. They also aren't well color matched. That said, the iris is the sort of thing that dreams are made of.

Mechanically, they're great. It's like somebody sat on an Ultra Prime and put some blue paint on it. Some of the closer focus markings are a little random, but I'll always take too many over too few.

These lenses are like a runner in a bodybuilding competition. They're great at what they do, but we're not measuring to their strengths. I suspect that if we put them up against a bunch of VistaVision lenses, we'd absolutely love them. Their 8-perf coverage will make them very popular when the larger Epics ship. But against the other S35mm primes, their bizarre inconsistencies and steep price hurt.

So if you have 8-perf plans in the future, these lenses probably rock. If you don't... well, their strengths will be lost on you.

[Dan Kanes]

What is wrong with the 28? In the set I've used the 28 was my favorite...

[Lee Saxon]

IMO, if you want this glass, buy the ZF set from Duclos. It's just under $9K

Now that sounds about like the fair price for these things.


What is wrong with the 28? In the set I've used the 28 was my favorite...

Was this on FF35? Because in the center it's very nice, it just has AWFUL corners (which you wouldn't see on S35).

Which, come to think of it, probably explains in general why people on this cine-focused forum have had much better experiences with the CP set than I did shooting stills with the ZF set. Doh, didn't think of that.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Wow, bit of this, bit of that... I reckon they're very good but not great then... The Duclos set is a nice option too, I wonder how it will perform on Epic although I think they cover 5K. I have a Nikon mount for my Red (the Optitek one with aperture ring, not Doug's one), but I might get stuck a while with Epic before they make a Nikon mount. I am considering the RPP of course, they're awesome but they are huge! I wish I could afford Leicas :(

[Dan Kanes]

Now that sounds about like the fair price for these things.



Was this on FF35? Because in the center it's very nice, it just has AWFUL corners (which you wouldn't see on S35).

Which, come to think of it, probably explains in general why people on this cine-focused forum have had much better experiences with the CP set than I did shooting stills with the ZF set. Doh, didn't think of that.

It was a CP at 4k 2:1

[David Baumber]

I was really close to buying a set of these CP's (so close, I had them in the checkout bin at creativevideo online store). Really pleased I read this thread first - thank you.

[Ken Willinger]

I don't love the 18 (I don't love any of them except the 21 and maybe the macro 50), but if we're gonna single one out for suckitude it should be the 28.

I've been using the 21 on a job for the last 2 weeks (I have a very strange mix and match set of lenses on this job) and like the lens very much. Been using it for a lot of handheld and the weight is great. I haven't used the others in the set.

[Timur Civan]

Been doing some testing with these lenses. They aren't bad. I have CP1's, and despite the gross mismatch of Tstops, I kinda like having an emergency 50mm T1.5 when I need it. Yes I like my cookes A LOT MORE. But I wouldn't kick these on the curb either. They are inexpensive, but fully featured ergonomic PL glass. You get what you pay for.

[Rob Castiglione]

Hi Timur. Are you going to put something up on your website? Of course the CP.2 s have lost some of the advantage that you speak of by being limited in their T stop though I guess they have gained the advantage of having proper mechanics.

[Timur Civan]

Yea I'm working on an article. Gonna be a few days. Lots of work this week.

[Rob Castiglione]

Great. Look forward to it.

[Timur Civan]

I'll say this,

They are assloads better than working with Canon EF Lenses......

[Jiri Vrozina]

Please try to get your hands on new Zeiss 50mm MACRO. I am thinking of 28mm,50mm MACRO and 85mm. Can somebody find out if ZEISS will release NEW 18mm soon? I hope it will be T2.1...

[Adam Eden]

I have a the 28, 35, 50, 85 and I am still waiting for the 100mm all T2.1.
I also have the new Light weight zoom 2 15.5-45mm. All lenses match really well, they are sharp, nice bokeh and best of all, match other Zeiss lenses including my MK 3 super speeds and also Ultra prime lenses.

I wouldn't buy the 18,21 or 25mm as they are making T2.1 versions ( I was told this from 2 separate suppliers in australia).

T2.1 is perfect for most situations and from my tests the lenses are just as sharp from T16 to T2.1

[Jiri Vrozina]

I have a the 28, 35, 50, 85 and I am still waiting for the 100mm all T2.1.
I also have the new Light weight zoom 2 15.5-45mm. All lenses match really well, they are sharp, nice bokeh and best of all, match other Zeiss lenses including my MK 3 super speeds and also Ultra prime lenses.

I wouldn't buy the 18,21 or 25mm as they are making T2.1 versions ( I was told this from 2 separate suppliers in australia).

T2.1 is perfect for most situations and from my tests the lenses are just as sharp from T16 to T2.1

Thanks Adam.
Any idea if they release NEW 18mm T2.1 this year?

[Adam Eden]

I hope so, but apparently they are releasing a 15mm T2.1 first and I have one on order. I would really like to see them release a 135mm

For the price they are hard to go past and the feet focus scale is accurate which my CA loves!

[Jiri Vrozina]

thanks

[Shane Betts]

Anyone care to comment on how the Duclos compare to the CPs mechanically?

[Timur Civan]

I assume you mean the ZF's converted.

The CP's are smoother and purpose built. The ZF;s are geared and Iris declicked still lenses. Plus they rotate in the wrong direction.

[Shane Betts]

Thanks Timur. Good work on the reviews BTW. Very handy.

[Lee Saxon]

My understanding on the ZE/ZF line was that Zeiss licensed Cosina to put their name on a set of Contax lenses, and then once Contax went out of business they had nothing to do with that Japanese manufacturing capacity, so they sold them with Nikon/Canon mounts instead.

I'm confused by the idea of new ones (such as a replacement 18, or a new 15) being developed. Would these new lenses actually be designed (or built) by Zeiss in Germany?

[Alexander Ibrahim]

My understanding on the ZE/ZF line was that Zeiss licensed Cosina to put their name on a set of Contax lenses, and then once Contax went out of business they had nothing to do with that Japanese manufacturing capacity, so they sold them with Nikon/Canon mounts instead.

I'm confused by the idea of new ones (such as a replacement 18, or a new 15) being developed. Would these new lenses actually be designed (or built) by Zeiss in Germany?

I don't know a thing about that.

I thought Zeiss made the ZF (Nikon mount) lenses in Germany, and that they only expanded slowly into other mounts. Most of the other mounts are just not that popular. The EOS mount requires electronic aperture so it genuinely needed more engineering.

In any case the Zeiss reps I spoke with said that the ZE/ZF and compact Primes (and all related lines) are designed and manufactured in Germany.

[Jiri Vrozina]

All Zeiss CPs are designed and built in Germany....unlike ZF/ZEs..

[Alexander Ibrahim]

All Zeiss CPs are designed and built in Germany....unlike ZF/ZEs..

Its the exact same glass. The Compact Primes just use "selects" from the SLR lens line.

Out of curiosity, why does it matter? Who cares about the provenance of the hardware- I just care about the hardware.

[Paul Nordin]

Out of curiosity, why does it matter? Who cares about the provenance of the hardware- I just care about the hardware.

I've got the same question. Its not like Japan has shoddy manufacturing standards compared to Germany.

[Steve Wake]

A picture of my sharpest lens (Zeiss ZF 100 f2 Makro Planar "Made in Japan"). Ironically taken with a 20mm Cosina Voigtlander made in the same factory. Posting not to get in anyone's face, but in the interest of factual info, and to defend the rep of the manufacturer who I think is also making some glass for the RED brand. Even if he's not, Mr. Kobayashi deserves a lot of respect.

The CP's are hand-picked per Zeiss's own website. I would guess Duclos also checks them and possibly optimizes them as they do the rehoused Tokina 11-16.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

A picture of my sharpest lens (Zeiss ZF 100 f2 Makro Planar "Made in Japan"). Ironically taken with a 20mm Cosina Voigtlander made in the same factory. Posting not to get in anyone's face, but in the interest of factual info, and to defend the rep of the manufacturer who I think is also making some glass for the RED brand. Even if he's not, Mr. Kobayashi deserves a lot of respect.

The CP's are hand-picked per Zeiss's own website. I would guess Duclos also checks them and possibly optimizes them as they do the rehoused Tokina 11-16.

Ha ha.

Yes you are right of course!

I could have looked over at some ZF lenses I have right now and concluded the same thing! I feel a bit more doltish than usual.

Sorry for my errors.

So, here is where I think we are:

The Glass for the all the Zeiss SLR lenses and the Compact Primes are the same glass. The Compact Primes use selects from that manufacturing process.

The Zeiss SLR lenses are completely manufactured and assembled in Japan.

The Compact Primes have Japanese manufactured glass, but German housing manufacturing and assembly.

That still leaves me wondering why anyone cares? As you pointed out Kobayashi has a great reputation.

[Jiri Vrozina]

Its the exact same glass. The Compact Primes just use "selects" from the SLR lens line.

Out of curiosity, why does it matter? Who cares about the provenance of the hardware- I just care about the hardware.

i care:patriot:

[Alexander Ibrahim]

i care:patriot:

Fine.

Why does it matter where it comes from to you?

Do concerns about where it comes from over ride a frank evaluation of how the lens performs?

[Jiri Vrozina]

Fine.

Why does it matter where it comes from to you?

Do concerns about where it comes from over ride a frank evaluation of how the lens performs?

Please understand,
in Europe whole generations have built cars, lenses,planes etc... in past 100 years.
That knowledge is passed from father to son.....thats lot of experience and craft i do not mind paying for.
I like to buy Ferrari from Italy and Mercedes from Germany. I do not like spending my money on Omega Watch built in China.
I have owned ZF Zeiss-well made lenses for money but i prefer my Zeiss PL Lenses to be made in Germany.

Regards
jiri

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Please understand,
in Europe whole generations have built cars, lenses,planes etc... in past 100 years.
That knowledge is passed from father to son.....thats lot of experience and craft i do not mind paying for.
I like to buy Ferrari from Italy and Mercedes from Germany. I do not like spending my money on Omega Watch built in China.
I have owned ZF Zeiss-well made lenses for money but i prefer my Zeiss PL Lenses to be made in Germany.

Regards
jiri

Ha! That's your complaint?

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense!

Its rather unfair to compare a $25000 Arri/Zeiss Master Prime to a $1500 Zeiss ZF Prime. Of course the Master Prime is better! For more than 15 times the price it had better be!

What next? Are you going to compare a Ferrari to a Fiat?

Their defects are really a limit of the market they are targeted towards. The tradeoff is that you get a lens for $1500 that is "good enough" as opposed to a $25000 lens that's as perfect as human knowledge & technology permits.

If you want to be fair to the Japanese lens manufacturers, you have to offer a retail price equivalent to a Master Prime if you expect quality competitive to the Master Prime.

[B.Smith]

Does anyone know if the CP.2s rent well?

[Jiri Vrozina]

:beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5:I do not have any complaint at all.I do not compare Photo lenses to Cine ones. Just read and listen before you write silly things.
I just prefer my Zeiss cps to be made under the same roof as Zeiss Master Primes.
After all i am making money from what i do. I appreciate better things in life....anyway go to your local Shopping Centre and get whatever Photo lenses you want.

[Brian Broz]

Timur,

When you get a chance I'd love to hear your thoughts on the CP2s, and how they differ from the Panchros especially. I have been back and forth on which set makes the most sense for me as a growing Red rental / DIT / seemingly rarely shooting business. Basically Panchro 6 Lens set = CP2 5 Lens set + ARRI LWZ (later).

I'd love to hear an opinion and/or experiences and don't expect a full report:-)

I personally really want a set of the Cooke Panchros hands down but they are almost 2x the price....and alot of lower budget clients could use the extra stop.
Often my Red MX rents to small commercials, and corporate shoots including ones that end up shooting 5D (sigh). Therefore considering the CP2s for cost, size, versatility of PL/Canon mount , full frame futureproofing, and extra stop of T2 over most alternatives. RPPs are great but too heavy for me and plenty of sets already in town.

I realize you get what you pay for but am curious as to sharpness at T2.8 compared to the Panchros. I can deal with the lack of "warmth" but sharpness / falloff is important.

Much appreciated if and when you have the time.
Regards,

Brian Broz

[Lenny Manfred]

I have 3 CP1s, the 28/2.1, 50/1.5 and 85/1.5. I use them on my Alexa (yes, I said the A word). I just bought the 28, so i have only used it once so far, but it looked fine to me on the little on board monitor (i know, hard to judge there). The 50 and 85 are great at 2.0 or smaller, but i love having the option of going 1.5 if needed, and for people closeups, that softness looks rather nice.
I have to say so far I am very happy with this short set. i like to double (or close to double) my focal lengths between lenses, less than that would look like a jump cut, plus the small difference between a 35 and a 50 can be made up by taking a little step forward. so now i patiently wait for the 15mm. boy, i hope it's a 2.1, but since their 15mm leica mount lens is a 2.8, i don't have my hopes up too high.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

:beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5:I do not have any complaint at all.I do not compare Photo lenses to Cine ones. Just read and listen before you write silly things.
I just prefer my Zeiss cps to be made under the same roof as Zeiss Master Primes.
After all i am making money from what i do. I appreciate better things in life....anyway go to your local Shopping Centre and get whatever Photo lenses you want.

Jiri, I'm very sorry but you sound very much like you are comparing Cine lenses to photo lenses.

Look, the only Japanese company I know of making real cine glass is Fujinon which has their own line of PL zooms and is making the Alura zooms for that other German company now.

To be fair, those are the lenses you should be comparing to the European craftsman lenses you champion.

Now, I can't really offer any thoughts on the Fujinon PL glass ... I haven't touched it yet. I admit to being very curious.

That's what I am saying - compare the Fujinon 14.5-45 t/2 to the Cooke S4/i 15-40 t/2. Compare the Alura 18-80 to the Angenieux 17-80 t/2.2 lens.

Based on the fact that Arri has chosen Fujinon over Zeiss as their zoom manufacturer- they can't be all bad. Based on the specifications alone, I'd say Fujinon has something to learn still. Only time and the glass will tell the truth.

Regardless of the conclusion I might reach in using their lenses this at least is a fair comparison. Its Fujinon doing its best work.

As to my lens shopping habits- your insult is noted.

My response is simply that I choose lenses based on their ability to help me satisfy my clients and my audiences.

I am not buying mystique or tradition, or generational knowledge. I'm buying glass, and its the glass I have to look at not their origin, or the last name of the lens tech.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Does anyone know if the CP.2s rent well?

I have heard that the CP lenses rent better than the Red lenses or other nominally better lens sets, mostly by trading on the Zeiss name.

This depends on your market though.

[Adam Eden]

I have heard that the CP lenses rent better than the Red lenses or other nominally better lens sets, mostly by trading on the Zeiss name.

This depends on your market though.

YEP people in australia prefer CP lenses to RED primes. I know because everyone wants to rent mine. Especially that they also fit onto canon 5D/7d if you pay the extra for the interchangeable mounts.

But just so you know, I was testing my LWZ2, CP and MKIII super speeds for flare today buy placing a blonde (2K light) a few metres back from the camera and having someone close to the camera looking into the lens as I am shooting a sunrise tomorrow with someone pearing into my lens. The results were interesting..

LWZ2 (the new 15.5-45mm zoom) looked great, nice flares (red in colour) with an nice bokeh. Good contrast range

CP2 looked ok but nothing special, didnt really like the bokeh wasnt really round, but wasnt really octagonal either, flares were a bit weird (red/ purple and a bit of blue) Contrast a bit darker than other lenses.

MkIII super speeds, looked amazing, big flares (red/purple) with the traditional bokeh.. Awesome contrast the best by far.

All lenses had ND.9, F8 at ISO 640.

I should post up something here but I dont have time at the moment. Some one remind me in a couple of weeks.

I think that the CP2 lenses are sharp and great for commercial work as they are light and sit great on my steadicam archer2. But for arty stuff its pretty hard to beat Super speeds, but the LWZ did match really well with both sets of lenses.

Just goes to show that a 20-30yrs old set of lenses still hold up today!

[Lee Saxon]

Okay clearly my post came across as "Japanese lenses suck. German or bust" or something and started a mini flame war, which was totally not my point.

All I was saying is I thought the ZF line were "leftover" designs / manufacturing capacity, so maybe Zeiss would be taking over development if there were to be new ones.

[B.Smith]

I hear the CP.2s can be really soft when wide open, how true is this? Does this also apply to the 18mm as in does that mean the 18mm won't be perfectly sharp until closed down to a 4 or 5.6?

And what are the odds that Zeiss will release an improved 18,21 and 25 and if so, when? Do you think they will make a special offer for people who already own the current 18,21 and 25s?

[Shane Kelly]

I hear the CP.2s can be really soft when wide open, how true is this? Does this also apply to the 18mm as in does that mean the 18mm won't be perfectly sharp until closed down to a 4 or 5.6?

And what are the odds that Zeiss will release an improved 18,21 and 25 and if so, when? Do you think they will make a special offer for people who already own the current 18,21 and 25s?

You hear this from who?
It's not true. The CP1's may have been a little softer wide open and this is certainly true with the fast zf's but the cp2's are sharp wide open.
When you say improved, do you mean faster? I think that Mitch had mentioned them working on some faster wides. I don't think they'll have any special offers for people who own the originals, after all they're not Red.

[Adam Eden]

If anything the CP2 lenses are a bit sharp and i tend to put in a 1/4 ultra con to soften them out a bit. Same with the LWZ2.

I don't know if i mentioned this anywhere but the LWZ is super35 and on a 5d it looks like you are looking through a tunnel. 7d is fine though

[Rob Castiglione]

Hi Adam. That has always been my concern about the CP2 - from the footage that I have seen posted, they look a bit sharp for my tastes. I prefer a slightly softer look. On the other hand I really like the look of Red Cam and Zeiss standards.

[Adam Eden]

I would rather soften a lens on a shoot then have to try and sharpen it later in post though!

For TV commercials the CP2's are awesome, The arty stuff like music videos, drama etc. Can't beat MkIII super speeds..

[Jiri Vrozina]

Okay clearly my post came across as "Japanese lenses suck. German or bust" or something and started a mini flame war, which was totally not my point.

All I was saying is I thought the ZF line were "leftover" designs / manufacturing capacity, so maybe Zeiss would be taking over development if there were to be new ones.

I Never said That! My point was I prefer to buy Zeiss German made , Toyota Japanese made,RED Epic US made. Anyway if there is Epic Battletested available for sale Please let me know-can buy right now.........:-)

[Brian Broz]

Tough to sift through all the opinions of people who haven't actually used them. Would love to hear experiences from Timur or people who have actually used the CP2s.
CP1s had issues that have been adressed, and CP2s have issues with the wider lengths that hopefully will be addressed.
I rented a set of RPPs on the weekend, and although they are great lenses... the lack of markings between 6 - 15' and massive size/weight are a dealbreaker for me.
Timur...if you're still here I'd welcome your thoughts!

[Jiri Vrozina]

Tough to sift through all the opinions of people who haven't actually used them. Would love to hear experiences from Timur or people who have actually used the CP2s.
CP1s had issues that have been adressed, and CP2s have issues with the wider lengths that hopefully will be addressed.
I rented a set of RPPs on the weekend, and although they are great lenses... the lack of markings between 6 - 15' and massive size/weight are a dealbreaker for me.
Timur...if you're still here I'd welcome your thoughts!

For Your shots wait for Zeiss CP.2 15mm T2.1.

[Adam Eden]

Tough to sift through all the opinions of people who haven't actually used them. Would love to hear experiences from Timur or people who have actually used the CP2s.
CP1s had issues that have been adressed, and CP2s have issues with the wider lengths that hopefully will be addressed.
I rented a set of RPPs on the weekend, and although they are great lenses... the lack of markings between 6 - 15' and massive size/weight are a dealbreaker for me.
Timur...if you're still here I'd welcome your thoughts!

Read my earlier posts. I use CP2/ LWZ and my super speeds nearly everyday. I thoroughly recommend the CP2 lenses, especially for the price. Just us a 1/4 or 1/2 ultracon or similar for arty or drama stuff as they are very sharp.

[Timur Civan]

I have CP1's, but ive used CP2's. they are "standard speeds" for the new age. Nice build, sharp, relatively fast, and decent performers. good all around.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

I have CP1's, but ive used CP2's. they are "standard speeds" for the new age. Nice build, sharp, relatively fast, and decent performers. good all around.

That's kind of what I wanted to hear... I mean they're Zeiss lenses, they can't be that bad... Can they?

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Anyone know where to find the original CP1 lenses? Any search seems to lead me to CP.2s...

I'm looking for a "budget" PL set. Perhaps used CP1 would be the way to go over a modded ZF set.

[Jiri Vrozina]

DISCONTINUED!
The are not Full Frame .

[Jarek Zabczynski]

DISCONTINUED!
The are not Full Frame .

Yeeh...that's good to know. Thanks!

[Dave Blackham]

Ha! That's your complaint?

What next? Are you going to compare a Ferrari to a Fiat?



My mate has a Ferarri and a Fiat, The fiat is more reliable, economic and according to him more fun to drive as it doesnt tail end on the corners.

[Jack Heller]

with the epic they are amazing, so light so much freedom

[Jiri Vrozina]

would he like to swap?

[Jiri Vrozina]

I have CP1's, but ive used CP2's. they are "standard speeds" for the new age. Nice build, sharp, relatively fast, and decent performers. good all around.

I thought ZEISS were bad and sterile,cold and horrible 1-2 months ago.
What changed your perspective? So you can see the light now?... are they making money for your rental biz?

[Brent .T]

The CP1's are discontinued but they do cover full frame.

[Jiri Vrozina]

No they don't.
FULL frame i mean 5d frame.
Even latest 18mm CP.2 does not cover full frame....thats according ZEISS

[Brent .T]

Cover 24x36mm still frame (refer SALT), if this wasn't your meaning, I apologise, yes I'm aware 18mm vignettes , just thinking it doesn't account for the whole set. Hope someone can chime in and confirm all CP1's frame boundries. It's probably been done before but wouldn't hurt to go over again. Again , sorry Jiri if I'm way off or incorrect.

[Jiri Vrozina]

No problem.
Just talked to ZEISS rep at SEMPTE2011 in Sydney.

I just think for 1 man operation ZEISS ZF is great glass for money...I still love 21mm ZF even if it is bit slooow at 2.8. Their new 50mm MACRO 2.0 is great too if one is on budget and can't afford CPs.
Nice affordable poor man's CPs. And with Orbiteks new Nikon Gs look good too. Just don't like NIkon G50mm.....

[Brent .T]

No worries Jiri, just a side note, almost everyone who has Cp's or ZF glass love's the 21mm ( and wish it was T2.1) on the flip side they never seem to like the 25mm T2.8. The same for the 50mm T2.1( originally 1.5} instead they rave about the 50 macro.

Brent

[Timur Civan]

I thought ZEISS were bad and sterile,cold and horrible 1-2 months ago.
What changed your perspective? So you can see the light now?... are they making money for your rental biz?

i still think they are sterile. Last month I started using the cp's under tougher circumstances other than the occasional interview. Hooked em up to an Epic, F3, RedMX, and a AF100. They arent sharp till T4, and have mediocre color rendition and feel. Like i said, they take the place of Standard Speeds in Zeiss' current line. Though in reality, Ultras would probably be the real replacement since The Masters replaced the SupersSpeeds. But calling them sterile, cold etc doesnt mean horrible. I dont think I called them horrible. Those are adjectives describing them. They are still good lenses, they collect light, and focus it on a sensor.... So it does that prettywell.... and it has witness marks... so thats good.... They are good. not great. Not amazing. Just good.

I actually havent made a penny off of them. They rent often, but they dont generate money to offset their expenses. Not sure what im going to do with them. I mean, they are weird in that renting them is like throwing money away, for the owner. they cost 20+K, but its difficult to get the $300 a day they should. People with money want the panchros. People with no money want the CP's but they want them for 4 days for $300. In other words.... Bleh. Or they want just the 50mm, cause they are doing an interview and just need essenstially one lens.... breaks up the set so it kills it for the day, but you also only collect a portion of what you should cause its one lens. Did that once or twice, but screw it. Full days only.

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Anyone know where i could find used compact primes? Currently the plan is to go with ZFs, but if i can get a good deal on 3 or 4 compact primes that might be a good alternative for me.

[eric a wahl]

I have been extremely pleased with my Ziess Standard primes Mk. II 2.1
My 7 lens set is 12,16,24,28,40,85,100

I constantly get compliments from my customers on the visual captured from these lens's

They are roughly the same cost as the Compact Primes and are much smaller.

I had them serviced this year at Duclos (highly recommend them for any Len's servicing) and at that time inquired about the compact primes (which they had for sale in stock) and was basically told that the Len's I had, while much older, are a better product.

Hope that helps....

Carl Zeiss Lenses for Film and Digital Cinematography
http://cinematechnic.com/resources/zeiss_cinematography_lens.html

[Maz Mawlawi]

Eric, do the Standard Primes cover the FF5k sensor without vignetting? (especially the 12 and 16)

[eric a wahl]

I do not have the EPIC yet.. (STAGE 3 for me)
If anyone local to Long Beach, CA has an EPIC and want to test.. let me know...


Eric, do the Standard Primes cover the FF5k sensor without vignetting? (especially the 12 and 16)

[Linus Sagadore]

18, 21, 25, 28, 35, 50 & 85mm - very good condition $20,000
linus@techtraders.com 902.477.6860

[conrad gaunt]

These are DSLR glass rehoused.

They certainly won't be too sharp - although I don't know how a lens could be. If a lens is too sharp for what you are doing, then drop a filter on it.

Just remember though you can make a lens softer on set with filtration or in post, but you can't make it sharper. Hopefully this will obviate that question in the future.

They are not as sharp as the Arri/Zeiss Master Primes, that much is certain.

Still photography lenses can be very sharp, and in fullframe shooting will normally resolve more detail than a HQ s35 cine lense

, even a master prime I suspect. Not looked at compact primes though, I'm using ZFs with focus gears