Fanboys and Hecklers... [Archive]

Jannard

12-31-2006, 11:05 AM

Our project is pretty controversial. Scam or revolution? In the last year, almost to the day, we announced what most deemed impossible. What did we know about sensors. How could we build a sensor that out-spec'd any other company in the industry? How could we build a camera in just over a year that had more features and a smaller price tag than anything else on the market? "Who ARE these guys?"

Then we took reservations with a "money back for any reason guarantee" and opened up our development process and actually communicated with our potential customers. Why would we do such a thing? This is all so new.

As time went on, we met milestones. Footage was posted. David Stump was impressed. And the industry now seems focused to see if we can make the finishline.

The result is a wide range of interest. Fanboys or REDheads (I fall in that group), vocal supporters, the genuinely intrigued and interested, sincere and respectful skeptics, disrespectful and adversarial critics, and hecklers.

While I do admit that the latter two categories actually help our cause (more attention to the accident) I struggle with thanking them for their help. While I am certainly motivated by someone telling me what "can't be done", I also strongly believe that someone who posts on a board should write ONLY what they are brave enough to say in person.

I expect that we will see hecklers infiltrate here as we get closer to the end. Maybe they work for a competitive company that is negatively affected by our program. Maybe they are just very insecure and find relief in making someone else's life frustrating. Whatever the motives, I want to discourage hecklers and disrespectful posts on this board. This is our home. The RED community. It is a place where information is shared, and celebration of community successes and growth is embraced. If your goal is to be disruptive... take it somewhere else.

Jim

Mardi_Gras

12-31-2006, 11:13 AM

And like the web address reads, reduser.net and not redsceptics or redbashers.com. It's that simple, I don't understand why folks fail to get it.

Steve Connor

12-31-2006, 11:21 AM

Some people are scared of change, it's also in some peoples nature to be cynical and suspicious. I would also imagine vested interests are at play but it doesn't mean they are going to spoil the party - and if RED One works as advertised then it's going to be a hell of a party!

Happy New Year to all the RED team.

Ruairi Robinson

12-31-2006, 11:22 AM

The thing that blows my mind is when people argue against needing higher image quality.

Does not compute.

Erik Greensmith

12-31-2006, 11:25 AM

There'll always be hecklers and hide-behind-the-safety-of-my-keyboard troublemakers because all they want is attention. I would bet that most of the irrational chaff that gets posted by people claiming RED is a scam is motivated simply by the desire to see people waste their time explaining how stupid they are. We should just stop humoring them. If somebody wants to bring forward a valid critizism then that's ducky since that's why these forums exist. But blatant war-mongering is something the Internet is know for and we should know better by now. Jim, just delete the dumb stuff.

Gunleik Groven

12-31-2006, 11:26 AM

The silence @ cinematography.com lately makes it boring for people to post there -;)

What I don't get is that most critics seem to assume that we don't know that we put down a DEPOSIT on what might be one of the funniest cameras ever and that we're having great fun watching the development. They seem to assume that we have "bought a non-existing camera".

I cannot really see I have done so, even though I hope to get an existing camera in six months time.

The insult is that some try to warn us all against our own very concious, fun and and risky business decission.

Who ever gained anything without entering some of those?

Happy new year and best wishes to all!

Gunleik

David Fairbanks

12-31-2006, 11:33 AM

The skeptics can be good to keep us grounded, but when they haven't done their homework, it's just rude.

So far they have met their claims. The have a camera (bench model) that produces images, and it has more range than anything on the market today. So while what they are trying to accomplish is astonishing, it takes innovators like the Red team to advance the industry. Unfortulately, the openness of the development process has invited the hecklers.

Blair S. Paulsen

12-31-2006, 11:37 AM

There is a difference between raising issues that challenge the developers and the community on specifics, and just stirring the pot. If you want to wade in here guns blazing making cogent points I say bring it on. By helping the larger professional community understand the myriad advantages of the RedOne and the RedCine/RedCode enabled workflow it will help all of us get gigs with the rig. Anytime you stand up and say "this is a better way" you need to explain why to folks in the biz. I firmly believe that once people with reasonably open minds have the "aha" moment we've got 'em!

I join the RedLeader in asking those that have nothing better to do than heckle just to purge their own bile to desist. I would even ask Jarred to police posts that simply recycle the same old cliches about how the RedOne is a fraud. We're wasting bandwidth by swearing our allegiance to Red every time some idiot wanders in off the street. I am sure the Red Team appreciates our support, they are human after all, but its getting boring and redundant.

Mardi_Gras

12-31-2006, 11:37 AM

Quite frankly, I count myself lucky to be in this company, I don't care what the hecklers, smart alecs and their likes think. Look at it this way, we will someday be regarded as the "naive" bunch that changed the face of 21st Century filmmaking.

Throughout man's history, there's always been mavericks and an equal numbers of naysayers. The good news is, the mavericks always prevailed.

Stephen Williams

12-31-2006, 11:52 AM

The silence @ cinematography.com lately makes it boring for people to post there -;)

Hi Gunleik,

The owner of the site banned discussions until Red was available for anyone to test. I was unaware of the Red forum @DVX user until recently, thats why I am here.

I fall into Jim's "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" categories I am very pleased to have been accepted by the people here.

Happy new year

Stephen

Mike the beginner

12-31-2006, 12:26 PM

I join the RedLeader in asking those that have nothing better to do than heckle just to purge their own bile to desist. I would even ask Jarred to police posts that simply recycle the same old cliches about how the RedOne is a fraud. We're wasting bandwidth by swearing our allegiance to Red every time some idiot wanders in off the street. I am sure the Red Team appreciates our support, they are human after all, but its getting boring and redundant.

As always your post make such good reading Blair:)

Now being a Scot:D I am off to celebrate:)

Having now studied the theory side of videography for one year exactly i salute you all. Kind helpful generous and sincere people who have helped me learn and given me some great laughs often in the wee smaw hours of the night.

A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OF YOU

Michael

Jarred Land

12-31-2006, 12:48 PM

JVB

12-31-2006, 12:56 PM

Way to go Jarred all these people who don't believe in this project can eat their hearts out when this camera gets into our hands.

Gavin Greenwalt

12-31-2006, 02:21 PM

Since Nigel seems to have been kickbanned how about we kill any thread like:

"THANK YOU RED FOR MAKING MY LIFE HAPPY!"

For at least the appearance of balance...

Jannard

12-31-2006, 03:32 PM

Since Nigel seems to have been kickbanned how about we kill any thread like:

"THANK YOU RED FOR MAKING MY LIFE HAPPY!"

For at least the appearance of balance...

Balance is not a requirement here. This is a RED site. Pro-RED is welcomed with open arms. :-)

Jim

Adrian Correia

12-31-2006, 03:36 PM

yeah....Red's allright. And lay off Stephen Williams. He's good people!

Don Woods

12-31-2006, 03:38 PM

I agree with all of this. This place is for RED users. Why should we have to listen to the people that have no interest in RED other then to see it hopefully fail. That makes no sense to me. So I support Jarred and Jim in there dicesions to delet anyone who dose not share a comon bond with the rest of the RED user.

Jannard

12-31-2006, 03:44 PM

I'm good with Stephen. Actually he is now my personal project. He is an acknowledged interested yet respectful skeptic. My job is to win him over. Someday he'll be shooting a RED ONE and when he speaks about his experience, people will listen.

Jim

Mark Thorpe

12-31-2006, 03:48 PM

There will always be hecklers (and kochs) who want to get a bite from those who dare to push the envelope. Let these people shout, scream and label us, who cares. At the end of the day we're gonna be the ones having the last laugh. Where will these individuals figure in your academy award winning speech??

Peace,
Mark.

Stephen Williams

12-31-2006, 03:53 PM

Adrian Correia

12-31-2006, 03:53 PM

Just kidding anyway Jim! Stephen on cinematography.com was always one of the most open, respectful and helpful people. He helped me in a big way when I bought my cine lenses. Also, if I become a skeptic can I come see Spike? Because if the answer is yes, then this whole project is just one big lie.....respectfully speaking.

Adam Jeal

12-31-2006, 03:54 PM

In the UK naysaying and general pi**ing and moaning is our national sport:)
Forget football (soccer)!

All I can say Is that I for one am so happy and proud to be part of this.

Steve Gibby

12-31-2006, 03:57 PM

I will simply not tolerate any bashing.. if i find it, it will be deleted and the poster removed from the site. It is perfectly fine to debate, but those looking for trouble and posts that are fishing or trolling will just be canned. Jim has opened the doors to us all to take a peek inside and i simply wont allow anyone to tarnish his generosity.

This will become the policy here, and pretty much one of the only rules.. i hope that doesn't offend anyone.

Thanks everyone.

With your permission Jarred, I'll repost a modification of a recent post I made on the DVX User RED forum in answer to a new user of that forum who felt the need to be a heckler and baiter:

"Good forum etiquette, especially when you first join a forum, calls for use of the search function to get up to speed on the issues that have been covered recently, and a measure of humility in approaching the existing forum members and the owner of the web site. To bait and troll existing members doesn't cut it even if you're a longtime member of the forum, much less when you have just joined. There's a mistaken notion that because forums are on the Internet that they are publicly property. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is private property. This is a RED web site, owned and operated by Jarred Land. Permission to enter is subject to the user rules that have been set, and is revocable at any time at the owner's discretion. Nobody has any "right" to use this web site, unless the owner grants him or her access.

Everyone using this web site has a decision to make: 1) Use the search tool, be respectful to the existing forum members, and have this forum be a good source of learning for you 2) Heckle, flame, harass, and bait, and potentially be removed from access to this forum and web site.

Constructive criticism and respectful dissent are absolutely encouraged by the forum member rules. Why else have a forum if we can't respectfully discuss and disagree. But baiting, trolling, and flaming are not allowed. Constructive learning ceases when those tactics enter the forum. This is an awesome forum, with a good cross-section of knowledgeable professionals, progressive intermediates, and curious novices. As a former moderator for the previous RED forum at DVX User, and someone who values everyone's opinions (even though I don't always agree with them), I'd like to see everyone stick around if they can play by the forum rules. If they can't or won't, then they may be banned.

We're all accountable for our choices. Using our free choice to break the forum rules will get us ejected, plain and simple, and we'll have nobody to blame but ourselves. Play by the rules and stay - break the rules and go.

It's patently ludicrous to categorize the conducting of progressive, respectful, constructive discussion on a forum as being fanboys.

Play by the house rules and stay - violate the rules of this RED house and "C-ya pal!"

Jarred Land

12-31-2006, 04:15 PM

well said Gibby.. well said. I just installed a new infraction system here as well, to give people a chance before getting completely banned, they get a warning so people can understand when they are crossing the lines.

Sanjin Jukic

12-31-2006, 04:33 PM

Jim,

you are right in all what you were saying about the RED development and I would suggest to all to heartily join opinion and share all what you're said. As a customer or reservation holder I am strongly supportive to you and the RED team.

Happy New RED year.

Alex Boothby

12-31-2006, 08:41 PM

Hi boys, glad to see you all made the trip safely - I'm a bit late myself. (oh, and thanks for the new home Jarred).

Back to the topic of this thread, I am often confused to read (misguided) comments that RED has an "aggressive" or "bombastic" marketing strategy. Anyone who has read the cordial, open and professional posts by Jim, Graeme, Rob, Stuart or Ted knows how ridiculous this is, and so I can only assume that much of the blame for the "bombastic reputation" comes directly from RED's biggest fans, who are often less than civilized when dispensing with heathen outsiders.

But like it or not, people will post on this forum with silly questions, misguided information, and skeptical biases. While it may be frustrating to read such posts, perhaps we should all count to ten before disemboweling them. Not all of these people are true adversaries and their opinions of RED may not yet be fully formed. But their skin will solidify pretty damn fast when they are being assailed from all sides.

Take a lesson from Herman Goering (or was it Bush?) - nothing unites a community faster than attacking them (I paraphrase). Do you really wish to unite any group against RED?

I think we all owe it to the RED team to act as good ambassadors for their cause. This is even more critical as Reduser.net becomes the hub for all things RED. As we get closer to the first release, I'm sure that more and more folks will drop by this forum, including some top DPs, directors, producers, etc. Let's save Jim, Greame, Rob et all some time by answering questions efficiently and professionally, by not dragging on pointless arguments, and by not being suckers for obvious baiters.

Well that's my two cents - I just wanted to make my first reduser post. Happy New Year all! :)

Jason Francois

12-31-2006, 08:43 PM

OK. I'll behave. :)

Alex Boothby

12-31-2006, 08:57 PM

You'll have to change your user name, Insanity. :D

Jason Francois

12-31-2006, 09:09 PM

You'll have to change your user name, Insanity. :D
Damn. I knew I had forgotten something. :)

Jason Francois

12-31-2006, 09:11 PM

Hey, being a junior member again should suck, but I feel young again. :)

robbo

12-31-2006, 10:03 PM

Guys - you may have missed the Nigel threads earlier on in the day.
It was hard to tell whether he was full-on trolling - but no matter they're/he's gone. Likely he was, with some of his comebacks.
There was a whole string of really funny responses (humorous) that I thought galvanised the vibe here.

The Red community doesn't have time for negative comments, nor does it have to justify itself to anybody - Jim and the guys are too busy delivering a revolutionary product to market.
And man, I wish one was coming my way ...

Matthew Greene

12-31-2006, 10:26 PM

Original message from: RedUser.net
You have been banned for the following reason: Ill-informed and unresearched attacks. Congratulations.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never

They sent you that, sent Nigel that or did you make it up?

robbo

12-31-2006, 10:30 PM

Nah - I made it up !
Not my call.

<removed>

Came in part from another board I frequent - heavy ? Yes.
Keeps the trolls in-line tho' ...

Feel a bit stupid for putting it up there - apologies.
oh well, Happy New Year.

Matthew Greene

12-31-2006, 10:51 PM

Oh, don't apologize, I thought it was funny. I'm not easily offended. Anyways, happy new year.

robbo

12-31-2006, 10:59 PM

Cheers Matt.
In the grips of, umm -
"over enthusiasm" - for the want of a better description ...

Jared VanLeuven

12-31-2006, 11:25 PM

This is a professional forum. Let's be professionals about it.

After picking ourselves up off the floor on the morning of Jan 1 tho. :)

Gregory Leno

01-01-2007, 01:05 AM

I'm not sure where to post this (this seems as good a place as any) but I just wanted to stop in and voice my support and admiration for everything that the RED team is doing. My background is in commercial still photography and I have been making the transition over to the motion universe in the last year or so.
I have been lurking on a few forums over the last few weeks and I have to say that I am amazed at the resistance and down right meanness of so many regarding the launch of this camera. Frankly, I just don't get it. Why wouldn't anyone (except competitors) want something like this to succeed? It can only benefit the state of movie making.
The things that gave me the willingness to put down my reservation money and have confidence in this teams integrity and ability were as follows:

1. Jim's experience and resources used in building Oakley.

2. Graeme Nattress's involvement. (this is not to downplay anyone else on the team. It is just that I have used his products and seen his knowledge at work in this technology. I have a great deal of respect for his abilities and knowledge)

3. Jim's personal skill in shooting his own photography (this may seem kind of a small thing but it impressed me that he has a personal interest and talent in shooting and producing his own work...just for his own interest.)

4. The Cool Factor. In other words Jim's understanding of the importance of good design.

These reasons have given me the belief that this has a great shot at succeeding and I for one want to support your efforts in anyway that I can.

I have been learning a lot from this community as I read your posts and I look forward to learning more in this new year.

So thanks, and Happy New Year!

Chris Gearhart

01-01-2007, 05:33 AM

Welcome, Gregory! Looking forward to benefitting from your input too.

Martin Drew

01-01-2007, 07:50 AM

I think there is another group that could be added to the list: "Critical supporters". I use critical in its true meaning of analysis and comment, it doesn't imply negativity. A critical supporter is a Red advocate who keeps an open mind and doesn't assume the worst (like a Red skeptic) or assume the best (like a Red head). Maybe the alternative reading of the term Critical supporter, that is: a type of supporter who is essential, is also apt, because I think that critical supporters tend to offer particularly useful feedback. Sometimes that feedback will be positive, sometimes negative (never unfairly though) but it can always been used constructively if it is taken in the spirit with which it was given. I find I spend a lot of time spreading the word amongst non-believers and I like to think that having a critical position, seeing the flaws as well as the strengths, gives my arguments of support some weight.

Having said that I can also appreciate the role of Red-Head: They keep the team encouraged and help make the project seem worthwhile on a daily basis; they soften any bad news or setbacks; they keep the forum fun. The Respectful skeptics also serve a very useful role tending to make the team push the envelope and to avoid complacency.

The key here is the correct balance between uncritical support, critical support and skepticism. The Red forum on DVXuser seems to me to have got it about right so far and I trust that 2007 will see the Reduser forum develop with the same kind of approach.

Happy New Year to all. Have a great 2007

Martin

Mardi_Gras

01-01-2007, 09:32 AM

The whole idea of the Red developers deciding to have an open door policy as it were, I guess is primarily to get constructive and useful feedback and/or criticism. They need this to help form and develop a product that's aimed at a certain target market. But this is where it ends, basically.

If you post inciting, unresearched and quite frankly, sometimes downright idiotic comments and assumptions based on rumours and innuedndos, then what is the purpose of that? This is what I fail to see.

You're either being educated, educating the forum or seeking answers to questions that will benefit the forum; anything outside of this and the usual joke or two, is and should be banned from this site, which for all purposes is strictly for Red and their community of believers and enthusiasts.

jamieson42

01-01-2007, 11:21 AM

Hi Gunleik,

The owner of the site banned discussions until Red was available for anyone to test. I was unaware of the Red forum @DVX user until recently, thats why I am here.

I fall into Jim's "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" categories I am very pleased to have been accepted by the people here.

Happy new year

Stephen

Stephen

is there such a thing? I feel a lot of DVX and cinematography forum users miss the input of Red in the forum, some have genuine professional curiosity, others professional or personal bias towards the Red project and Jim Jannard.

Either way a small group of users have learned to control their outbursts have made their way onto this forum.

I wonder what they have to gain by posting here and creating a "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" facade?

Roberto B

01-01-2007, 06:29 PM

OK. I'll behave. :)you'll behave..

"genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" categories.. where are my categories? ok, i must admit.. ours? :D

Roberto B

01-01-2007, 06:34 PM

you'll behave..

"genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" categories.. where are my categories? ok, i must admit.. ours? :Dwho lived or lives in a cultural environment strongly committed with a totalitarian heritage.. knows what means when the power is just speaking to the inner circle.. it's not good for anybody..

edit
in our business (filmmaking) there is a master rule.. a major rule.. whatever.. it says, the movie is the first reason.. and sometimes should be the only reason..

Deezie

01-01-2007, 06:44 PM

Stephen

is there such a thing? I feel a lot of DVX and cinematography forum users miss the input of Red in the forum, some have genuine professional curiosity, others professional or personal bias towards the Red project and Jim Jannard.

Either way a small group of users have learned to control their outbursts have made their way onto this forum.

I wonder what they have to gain by posting here and creating a "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" facade?

I would submit that the "Red" team has much to gain from their prospective demographic of "intrigued and interested." If 30 people in a room all have the same opinion, then 29 of them are irrelevant. There's nothing to be learned from the unsubstantiated rants of naysayers anymore than there is from gleeful fanboys. However, a credible Devil's advocate is critical to any venture -- especially a new startup. While the Red team is comprised of gentleman who've acheived success in other areas, there is no guarantee that their skills in a new venture will translate to favorable results. While in advertising, I was heavily involved in the launch of new products and models from autos to alcoholic beverages to the latest electronics. I have seen brilliant men of high status and success go down in flames in many of their ventures. Some of it was timing, some was execution, other times it just wasn't meant to be. I've also seen competing products of lesser value step in after the mess, and having learned from their competition, take over the market.

So, yes, feedback is critical. Especially for a company that is releasing a product into an entirely different industry than its current expertise commands. One concern I have is that Red doesn't have the infrastructure in place to handle tech support on this particualr product. It's new to them and they're going to have to learn on the fly. If you're using Red on a project where money and time is critical, what's going to happen?

Personally, I'm hoping for the best and wish the Red team success with flying colors. This camera is a fabulous idea, and the price point would appear to allow for a comfortable market. Their camera makes sense for my business and could enhance my bottom line if it performs as expected. Right now, there are no Red Users -- so this forum has to rely on more than fanboys to understand all the relevant questions if they are to succeed.

For those with only rants and complaints, I would suggest you think of something worthy of discussion.

Finner

01-01-2007, 06:46 PM

Stephen

I wonder what they have to gain by posting here and creating a "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" facade?

What to gain as a sincere critic!!!! If any of the members on this site are not at least a little bit critical to learn what the "CONS" will be of this camera they are either low on experience or low on the education of really understanding motion picture cameras. The "CONS" of any product is very important information for anyone who wants to buy or use a product. I have used pretty much every current (last 30 years) film camera and a lot of the HD cameras out there. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages and if you think RED will not have some dissadvantages you are simply wrong. All this said I have a reservation for a RED and believe what I have seen to be the advantages of the camera to be huge. But just as important to use this camera to its utmost I need to know the limitatations of the camera. An intelligent well thought out critical question is the most useful thing on this site for me and makes a person think. Unlike the verbal diarrea of "Red is Red" "Red is the best and the savior of the world" or even a qoute that may come out of this post I am writing saying "Red will have no limitations.". Posts along this line are nothing short of a waste of time to have to trudge through to get to the intellegent postings that actually say something.

I am so glad Jim assembled this team and I feel the camera will be great and I look forward to learning the limitations along with all the great things the camera can achive. So I sure hope anyone who has a well thought out critique of the camera will feel comfortable to post it.

Gavin Greenwalt

01-01-2007, 06:58 PM

Gbabymogul

01-01-2007, 07:47 PM

Research. Be honest. Be a gentleman/woman.

I don't think it's harder than that. If you do the aforementioned, then let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully, the wide array of experience by reservation holders balances out the info.-enthusiasm ratio... I'll fully admit to my enthusiasm, but my film experience is key to balancing it pragmatically.

As someone who likes to research and preplan; critical evaluation and knowing the cons of a product are essential. And oft times, many of the nuances of the product (not readily searchable) will be brought to the fore by constructive questions.

RED should be a pretty big tent. Room enough for all - Except for anyone acting unprofessional. http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/448_1167709106.jpg
yes, the tent should be RED but you get the idea hehe.

Hoffmann Films

01-01-2007, 08:01 PM

Change is a part of life and 2007 will be the start of something New...RED

Digigenic

01-01-2007, 08:49 PM

I will admit when word first broke out on this project, I was a skeptic.

Now, that has changed.

Even though I have yet to commit to purchasing a RED1, I'm definitely committed to the movement, and all of its potential.

I'm looking forward to using one of these cameras in the near future.

Jannard

01-01-2007, 10:33 PM

Here is the real scoop.

Fanboys motivate us the most. We will do everything in our power to NOT let them down. I will die trying to satisfy them.

Sincere critics give us food for thought. If the suggestions are valid and in our capability, they make the project better.

Disrespectful skeptics turn me off. Likely to make the "do not ever sell one to this guy" list. If they turn around quickly, we forgive quickly.

Hecklers absolutely make the "never sell this guy no matter what" list.

We have just added "we reserve the right to refuse service (or accept reservations) for any reason" to our program.

It is nice to be a private company.

Jim

Jaime Vallés

01-01-2007, 10:46 PM

Hecklers absolutely make the "never sell this guy no matter what" list.

We have just added "we reserve the right to refuse service (or accept reservations) for any reason" to our program.

It is nice to be a private company.

Jim

Hecklers just got pwned!!!!!

Owen

01-01-2007, 10:51 PM

Note to self: send flowers to Jim and team when placing order!

Gbabymogul

01-01-2007, 10:53 PM

Here is the real scoop.

Fanboys motivate us the most. We will do everything in our power to NOT let them down. That's a "for sure". ;)

The speed with which you guys watched the feedback and implemented suggestions where applicable (and useful) was reflective of that. Now that you've moved into the testing stage; it's our turn to prepare ... flexibly of course ...

Funny thing is, and forgive me for getting corny, but I still feel as excited (if not more so) than the first time I picked up the phone to make the reservation. Crazy eh ?

As always - cautiously optimistic :)

I'll still call a curve ball when I see one, but so far you guys are pitching like champs.

Roberto B

01-01-2007, 10:56 PM

Note to self: send flowers to Jim and team when placing order!if it was yesterday, i'd vote it for "quote of the year".. now, after jim's private company quote, i'll say: where can i send the flowers, sir? :D

robbo

01-01-2007, 11:09 PM

posted in worng thread <dopesmack>

Mardi_Gras

01-01-2007, 11:09 PM

Ok, here's the scoop, fanboys and hecklers alike are humans. Anyone in between is... um... human too. We all have red flowing in our veins whether we choose to acknowledge it or not. Red is the reason we're all here.... or not. Ok, I'm digressing again. Well, I hope you get it.

Now that's it!

jamieson42

01-01-2007, 11:14 PM

Forums will only work when positve exchanges take place. My issue was how long will this be able to go on when negative people from DVX and Cinematography post in a sanitized manner here. What they post here and what they post elsewhere under different names is a valid point

Sure every one has a different opinion, this is mine, and was directed at a few users

They know who they are, they have no business here

Andrew Benz

01-02-2007, 12:09 AM

...from DVX and Cinematography post in a sanitized manner here. What they post here and what they post elsewhere under different names is a valid point

Spot on... this is my feeling as well. Some of those haters now have reservations. Before and shortly after IBC one would have thought that the anti-christ was here. AS a matter of fact one who said he would only shoot film.. now has a RED#.

But in the end--We (those that believe in the concept and the people first) are the "fanboys" who offer nothing... Yeah, I am referring to you captain focus group... give me a break. "Cool is fear dressed in Black"...

Emanuel A.

01-02-2007, 12:12 AM

Spot on... this is my feeling as well. Some of those haters now have reservations. Before and shortly after IBC one would have thought that the anti-christ was here. AS a matter of fact one who said he would only shoot film.. now has a RED#.

But in the end--We (those that believe in the concept and the people first) are the "fanboys"Fair words! You sum some thoughts...and some RED reservation holders/supporters feelings (same POV) too.

EDIT -- As I have already been supporting (or some other future REDusers, as well), RED is and will always be ours. And you guys sorry some rant (if it seems or feels in that way :D) but RED is more ours than «the digital (cinema) camera project» of any one else...

Krisp

01-02-2007, 05:16 AM

Forgive me for jumping in amongst established posters and share my view, but I would like to take a minute to thank not just Jim, The Red Team and the key figures who normally populate these threads, but also to all the members who kindly impart their knowledge and experience without condescention or arrogance. The skill and knowledge level of the people who contribute regularly to this (and the 'old' dvxuser) forums are invaluable for those of us out there who are here to read and learn. The irritation of wasting time reading irrelevant or abusive posts is always superceeded by the combination of excitement, irreverance, expertise and kindness present in most posts from around the world. So thank you all for sharing, as I guess sharing is the key here. Even Red couldn't have happened with just one man and an idea...

REDHKSC

01-02-2007, 07:24 AM

I am a great believer in " Do not sleep with dogs " unless the dogs with his/her/neutral masters in wearing GOOD O sun glasses under the sun.

RED is a New Blood of Digital Imaging Community within our own space of REAL Time No Limits based PEOPLE BUISNESS networks worldwide which embrace with Technology beyond average standard of expectations.

Like my favorite brandings " F " in Car, " F " in Guitar, and R in Digital Moving pictures Camera etc. My favorite color for them are all in RED.

Only the people @RED and their up-coming users ( RED One camera with them soon ) and REDCORE members can share more inner-feelings about the product developments ahead NOT for Outsiders just make negative posts here because they have not seen nothing yet with no Involvment @RED.

Pay to Win to invest our future....

Stewart

Simon Wyndham

01-03-2007, 02:29 AM

I was a 'sceptic' at first. Well. more of a methodical sceptic ;) And yes, I have had a real go at the design of the camera over the development time. But never the concept itself, which I have always thought is a good one.

As the Red has developed it has become clearer that this thing will make the market, so these days you won't find me making comment on the ins and outs of the camera until I have used one. Or bought one. If Jim allows me! ;)

I took a chance on XDCAM despite people telling me that disc recording would skip and would be unreliable. I'm very glad I ignored people.

Red certainly deserves to be given the same chance.

Jason Ramsey

01-03-2007, 11:14 AM

planet e

01-03-2007, 11:43 AM

Here is the real scoop.

Fanboys motivate us the most. We will do everything in our power to NOT let them down. I will die trying to satisfy them.

what about your fangirls? i know there's probably not a ton of us out there, but....

my dirty little secret is that, to date, i have earned $11,000 towards my RED camera by successfully trading canon stock....

thanks, canon!

Robert Sanders

01-03-2007, 12:09 PM

I took a chance on XDCAM despite people telling me that disc recording would skip and would be unreliable. I'm very glad I ignored people.

Red certainly deserves to be given the same chance.

I took a chance on the Canon XLH1 when everyone was screaming bloody murder about interlaced CCDs. I'm glad I ignored them.

But I eagerly await when the rental houses get their REDONE cameras. Because my first plan is to rent one for a week and test the shit out of it. Then I'll make a valuation and decide whether or not to persue a purchase.

Jaime Vallés

01-03-2007, 02:50 PM

my dirty little secret is that, to date, i have earned $11,000 towards my RED camera by successfully trading canon stock....

thanks, canon!

That's hillarious! :D

robbo

01-03-2007, 03:43 PM

what about your fangirls? i know there's probably not a ton of us out there, but....

my dirty little secret is that, to date, i have earned $11,000 towards my RED camera by successfully trading canon stock....

thanks, canon!

Priceless - well done !

Jared VanLeuven

01-03-2007, 03:48 PM

One can truly take their hat off to Jim and team for their confidence and fearlessness in allowing the world to saunter in and stick their finger in the batter and start bellyaching to and fro over this spice and that. The art of creation, whether it is a painting, a symphony or a mechanical masterpiece, is an intimate, personal one. You're putting part of yourself into it (okay, no Sauron jokes), and to let the rest of us in for the ride is, well, damn manly of you. Balls to the wall and damn the torpedoes, on to NAB and beyond!

HD Hildebrand

01-03-2007, 06:06 PM

Here is the real scoop.

Fanboys motivate us the most. We will do everything in our power to NOT let them down. I will die trying to satisfy them.

Jim

Well this is what instills confidence and keeps me a fanboy. Sure Reduser is just as much PR-worthy as it is informative, but I don't come here or to DVXuser for people bashing any product. I'm here for information... and every day... I get more and more excited about the prospect of owning a Red. Thank you for the information - keep it coming.

d. sweetman

01-04-2007, 03:08 PM

It is nice to be a private company.

Jim

Sure, but they can always rent or even purchase through a friend, so this must be more to instill a "rennegade, eff-you attitude" for the company while doing all you can to coerce hecklers to keep quiet...good move, don't get me wrong, good move...

And like the web address reads, reduser.net and not redsceptics or redbashers.com. It's that simple, I don't understand why folks fail to get it.

However, it is possible to be a red skeptic, it is not possible at this point to be a red user, and therefore by your own terms you have no cause to post here either!

Anyway I don't "fail to get it." A few years ago, I was just as pumped for "Alien vs. Predator" as you are for Red. Then I saw "Alien vs. Predator."

I'm very interested and I'd like to see where red goes, but forgive me if I don't have the same kind of unfailing allegiance to hype...

Andrew Benz

01-04-2007, 03:24 PM

However, it is possible to be a red skeptic, it is not possible at this point to be a red user, and therefore by your own terms you have no cause to post here either!

...but forgive me if I don't have the same kind of unfailing allegiance to hype...

Nice backhand David...

Tom Lowe

01-04-2007, 10:27 PM

We know for a fact that some of the haters, naysayers and hecklers are frustrated competitors. That's a fact, on record.

Jim, I wouldn't sweat it too much. Just do your thing and make them all eat crow.

Isaac Brody

01-05-2007, 01:09 AM

What about those of us who are part fanboy and part heckler? Fecklers? :D

Jason Francois

01-05-2007, 11:46 AM

What about those of us who are part fanboy and part heckler? Fecklers? :D

Let's try it out...Isaac, you're such a Feckler. :)

Chris Gearhart

01-05-2007, 01:30 PM

heh heh. lol!

Jason Ramsey

01-06-2007, 06:30 AM

I love it all. I love the prospect of the RED camera.

I just hate rich people. :)

Jason (waiting for the day I can hate myself)

NOMADIC

01-13-2007, 06:41 PM

Jarred Land

01-13-2007, 06:46 PM

heh heh heh. yeah we all got them on our vehicles at Red. Right of Passage.

As cool the truck is, the stickers are even more bad-ass.

it doesnt really look like it because of the scale.. but that sticker is 20" around.

oh.. and no, the truck wasn't bought with reservation money lol... heh heh heh.

nenaD

01-13-2007, 06:55 PM

I'm a RED fan! Evangelist! I spoke about it to all my friends as if it was my project :D

This is all so exciting. It's a big thing when a project reaches the point of gaining followers, when the idea finds fertile turf and starts florishing. Public acceptance is vital. It has unavoidable side effects, not everyone lives things the same way.

Good things happen but sh..ty ones as well. If the users would not have GUI in between, everything would have been more obvious and probably quite different.

Thanks Jarred and Jannard for putting the effort and treating us this privilege to feel as being part of a project. This is quite unusual for a firm to be disclosed as RED Team is. I used to be amazed with dvxuser.

Greetings Jarred, one has to have it in blood to achieve such a vivid digital communities.

Best regards from Barcelona to the whole forum.

Chris Gearhart

01-13-2007, 09:10 PM

I'm a RED fan! Evangelist! I spoke about it to all my friends as if it was my project

heh heh heh. Me too. This is a wild ride, aint it?

Justin Anderson

01-15-2007, 07:59 PM

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r141/nomadicDP/IMAGE_00071.jpg

there's where your deposits are going. haha, just kidding, well maybe a little. I was driving past the airport and saw the red logo on that suv (tank) and was like, whhaa! so I had to take a pic.

Nice. I saw Jarred driving around about 2 weeks ago at the end of the 55 freeway. I noticed the logo so I had to get his attention, wave, and pretend I'm important. :D

Joe Carney

01-16-2007, 12:32 PM

Looks like you would need a second mortgage just to fill it up. Whats the range on that monster?

Joe C.

Blair S. Paulsen

01-16-2007, 12:42 PM

All right, who ya' gotta "#*!?" to get a sticker? :D

Stuart English

01-16-2007, 08:20 PM

You don't have to you can now buy one ..

http://red.com/webstore/

Steve Sherrick

01-16-2007, 08:38 PM

Brilliant!

Steve

Roberto B

03-11-2007, 05:05 PM

Fair words! You sum some thoughts...and some RED reservation holders/supporters feelings (same POV) too.

EDIT -- As I have already been supporting (or some other future REDusers, as well), RED is and will always be ours. And you guys sorry some rant (if it seems or feels in that way :D) but RED is more ours than «the digital (cinema) camera project» of any one else...same side here..

Marcus Irvin

03-11-2007, 06:56 PM

There is one unofficial milestone RED will likely cross on another forum rather than this one. That moment will occur when any "disrespectful heckler" becomes the first to take public credit for making the RED camera better with their "feedback". This is SOP for that type of character, like the general that rushes to the front as the shooting stops.

In contrast, RED's General J. has been out front and taking it even when it wasn't necessary. Anyone with historical business perspective would have to appreciate his commitment on several levels.

Give em Hell, General!

ChristopherKenworthy

03-11-2007, 08:15 PM

I came to this forum in the first place, because it helped me to enjoy the anticipation. Then I realised that a lot of talented and intelligent people were offering good information, which has helped me plan budgets, lens choice, workflow and other aspects of production, before the camera even ships. It's a useful site for Red users, and as such, I'm delighted if skeptics are removed. With that said, I do enjoy reading the odd skeptic from time to time, because I have a reservation and they don't, and they're starting to hurt because (deep down) they know they should have taken the leap.