DC - DP / RED Owner Needed for Short Film - NBF - Great Story.

[kevin holmgren]

We will be shooting a short film near Dulles Airport area (Chantilly/South Riding) that we really want shot on Red.

Since this is our first film, we are looking for someone that would be willing to bring their Red and their experience for a brief 1-2 day shoot. Eventually we would like to buy a Scarlet, just like everyone else.

We are asking for a volunteer = No budget. (well, we will buy pizza for everyone) but this project is about as No Budget as you can get. Its a fairly simple shoot, easy to no setups, quick, but because some is shot in low light conditions, we really want to use all the stops the Red can dish out. Happy to answer any questions. Our last project is here: http://www.haute-spot.com.

We also think the story is very compelling and easy to shoot. My nieces and nephew are the primary actors. Small cast. Few locations.

Thanks for the help in advance and open to any suggestions. Are there some Red User groups in DC area?

Kevin

[Alexander Ibrahim]

We will be shooting a short film near Dulles Airport area (Chantilly/South Riding) that we really want shot on Red.

Since this is our first film, we are looking for someone that would be willing to bring their Red and their experience for a brief 1-2 day shoot. Eventually we would like to buy a Scarlet, just like everyone else.

We are asking for a volunteer = No budget. (well, we will buy pizza for everyone) but this project is about as No Budget as you can get. Its a fairly simple shoot, easy to no setups, quick, but because some is shot in low light conditions, we really want to use all the stops the Red can dish out. Happy to answer any questions. Our last project is here: http://www.haute-spot.com.

We also think the story is very compelling and easy to shoot. My nieces and nephew are the primary actors. Small cast. Few locations.

Thanks for the help in advance and open to any suggestions. Are there some Red User groups in DC area?

Kevin

So, being a DC area RedUser I may be willing to help out. If it doesn't conflict with a paid gig or my life. I'm in Chantilly actually, close to the high school.

The words Red and "no budget" have no business in the same sentence.

I'm shooting a super low budget music video this weekend. We had an offer for a FREE rental of a Red One. I'll be shooting primarily on my 7D despite that.

Why?

Well, there isn't enough budget to handle data for a Red One. Or budget for a DIT.

I recommend you use my 7D kit, and that you augment with a few rented lenses.

Another thing you said that worries me as a DP ... you want Red to shoot low light.

As it says in the Box book - A film without light is called radio.

Having shot with Epic ... it isn't magic. Even HDRx requires light. So my advice there is that you get some lighting for your project.

[Kemalettin Sert]

We will be shooting a short film near Dulles Airport area (Chantilly/South Riding) that we really want shot on Red.

Since this is our first film, we are looking for someone that would be willing to bring their Red and their experience for a brief 1-2 day shoot. Eventually we would like to buy a Scarlet, just like everyone else.

We are asking for a volunteer = No budget. (well, we will buy pizza for everyone) but this project is about as No Budget as you can get. Its a fairly simple shoot, easy to no setups, quick, but because some is shot in low light conditions, we really want to use all the stops the Red can dish out. Happy to answer any questions. Our last project is here: http://www.haute-spot.com.

We also think the story is very compelling and easy to shoot. My nieces and nephew are the primary actors. Small cast. Few locations.

Thanks for the help in advance and open to any suggestions. Are there some Red User groups in DC area?

Kevin

Cool Story Bro...

[Jon Thomasberg]

Depending on when you are shooting and the script for the project, I might be able to assist and bring my 5D kit. My R1 is in Cairo right now.

I concur with Alexander ... RedOne and low-light do not go together -- expecially non-MXed. Are you planning to shoot all your scenes outdoor using available sunlight?
Even if you are, you could get away with some reflectors & modifiers, but for any decent production you pretty much need at least a minimal light kit (kinos, LEDs/lightpanels, china balls, HMIs, heck even some HomeDepot shop lights might work depending on the scenes, not to mention a/multiple generators if your locations do not have available power outlets for you to run whips/extension cords). Doesn't have to get crazy expensive, but I'm sure you don't want a ton of harsh shadows on your talent.

As for lenses, I have 24-70 L2.8 and 70-200 L2.8 IS, but I usually rent any glass that I don't have from AcePhoto in Ashburn. If you are going for low-lights, are going for a very shallow DOF and can properly pull super-tight focus using Canon L glass, or Zeiss like 1.2 or 1.4 35, 50, and 85mm primes, that might work.

Also, have you got audio covered?

[kevin holmgren]

Wrote this several days ago and just uploading now. Sorry for delay:

Thank you very much for your quick reply and offer to help. We will be filming near Loudon County Parkway and 50. We have a simple story idea that we want to use as a learning experience, including getting familiar with Red; as I hope to buy at some point in the future when all the others get theirs. Since this is a more experimental film by it's nature; I want it to more "run and gun" than long set ups. Please keep in mind, what little I know about film, I taught myself. But I am also smart enough to hope to surround myself with people way smarter than me and learn fast by asking good questions.

I also hope to get more involved in the DC film scene, being from So Cal.

My primary reason for wanting to learn the ways of the Red camera is 1) I need a camera that reduces the learning curve lighting scenes/ fiddling with settings. 2) if I am going to invest my time and the valuable time of others, then I want the footage to be as good as possible for film use. And since the experimental film is basically a retelling of a zombie movie as viewed from a small group of kids perspective; with a Twilight Zone twist at the end. All shot as if it was one long day. So the night scene with massively rising action, will need to be shot in progressive darker scenes; including one scene near the end when the power to the house gets cut, so there might be some real high key lighting via flashlights and candles; with a some quick fire guns shots. So I hope that the Red can get the kids scared faces as the gun shots go off.

We might be able to get most of the coverage in one day. Like I said, quick setups. More gritty realism. Cinema verte'. But again, I really want to learn from someone who is willing and interested in mentoring a bit.

And I would be very willing to swap use of my future Red Scarlet that someone might want to use for a future two camera setup in exchange for anyone helping us shoot with theirs.

Another note: how many Red users are here in DC area? ARE there many film people? Do you know if any of the local cable cable channels lend use of good cameras? Are there many other passionate film crew people here in DC? Makeup? sound?

THANKS again fir your offer to help.

Care to meet up for coffee sometime?

[kevin holmgren]

Just getting the hang of this bulletin board system. I replied below. Thanks.

[kevin holmgren]

Thanks for the reply. See my generic comments below. But Since this is somewhat of a "zombie" movie told from a young kids perspective, then as the sun goes down and action starts to rise, then more and more coverage will have to be shot in progressively less light. IF i had an Scarlet, then... but even an Epic, but I figure there are no Epics near here. and since its ZERO budget; cant rent one. - also, yes, I bought about 5 halogen shop lights. (not part of budget if I can re-use for some other purpose) but LIGHT will be very important for creating a progressively scary feeling. I assume you are also in the Chantilly area?

[Alexander Ibrahim]

My primary reason for wanting to learn the ways of the Red camera is

1) I need a camera that reduces the learning curve lighting scenes/ fiddling with settings.

Man have you got the wrong idea about Red. The workflow for Red can be straightforward ... but you deo have to know what you are doing. There are lots of things to fiddle with and .

Also, I am sorry but the only way to learn to light is the hard way. Lighting lots of stuff with a light meter. Shooting it and looking at the results. Rinse. repeat.

No camera makes that easier for you. A Red can give you a little more leeway to screw it up ... but you still have to get it pretty close to correct to produce good images.

There is no magic except that which you learn through arcane studies and arduous labors.


2) if I am going to invest my time and the valuable time of others, then I want the footage to be as good as possible for film use.

Yeah, don't we all?

Like I said I used a 7D on a music video this weekend. It looks great.

You have to learn the craft first, then you get the toys.

Don't try to arrive without taking the journey first.


And since the experimental film is basically a retelling of a zombie movie as viewed from a small group of kids perspective; with a Twilight Zone twist at the end. All shot as if it was one long day. So the night scene with massively rising action, will need to be shot in progressive darker scenes; including one scene near the end when the power to the house gets cut, so there might be some real high key lighting via flashlights and candles; with a some quick fire guns shots. So I hope that the Red can get the kids scared faces as the gun shots go off.

We might be able to get most of the coverage in one day. Like I said, quick setups. More gritty realism. Cinema verte'. But again, I really want to learn from someone who is willing and interested in mentoring a bit.

That isn't a one day shoot really, and you are setting yourself up for failure by trying to make it a one day shoot.

Here are a few "red flags" : "massively rising action", ""some quick fire guns shots", "key lighting via flashlights and candles", "I hope that the Red can get the kids scared faces as the gun shots go off."

Let's look at two of those items: The word "guns"

You live in the DC area now.

The last time I had a shoot with guns, I made sure to get permission, informed the police and so on.

What happened on the day? SWAT showed up!!

Why the insane response? You live in DC that's why. You probably have no clue how many government installations are near you.

Second issue ... lighting with flashlights as kids are acting.

That could take a whole day to choreograph.

So, in summary, my first advice as a DP on your shoot would be schedule more days. My second advice is to plan on using more lights ... and if you can't rent film lights, then you have to at least invest in grip rental. If you use those hardware store lights, well they work, but you have to create shadows to have good lighting.

My advice as a producer: don't write a script that includes firearms anywhere near the DC area unless you have a major feature budget.

I hate to be a downer, but this is not as easy as you seem to think.

That doesn't mean its impossible of course. If you are dedicated to this story, then shoot it somewhere other than DC. I think you can do it on a long weekend, and it would be a fun little trip. In the meantime ... write something even simpler to get your feet wet. What you learn shooting the oh so boring kids talking in a cafe rip off of Kevin Smith will be ultimately a lifesaver when you get back to your zombie kids picture.

[Scott Crawley]

You've got some high aspirations and take initiative... I like that. For that you should be applauded, but I'm going to take Alexander's suggestion one step further. I think DV might even be more appropriate for your shoot. There will certainly be far more people within your reach who have that kind of gear and interest enough to put some thought into how to get results from it. An inexperienced director working with kids has more than enough challenges on his plate to be dealing with 35mm camera technique, and even a 5D on a kid's zombie movie is overkill unless all the necessary gear is handy and you already know how to get results with it.

Have more fun. Enjoy the kids. Play with performances. Keep it simple. DV, until you get some legs under you.

[Scott Crawley]

I just took a quick glance at you link. It looks like you already have access to DV gear, no? If so, why aren't you planning to use that?

[kevin holmgren]

The camera we used then was from my other Emmy award winning buddy... But we don't have access to that panasonic P2 HD camera. So we are looking for a camera on craisslist, but I am hesitant to spend over 2,000 bucks on a camera, if I plan to buy a $6,000 Scarlet (the current low end model). If I could buy a camera that I could turn around and sell for about the same price, I might. But haven't found one that does 1080p 24 yet. The DSLR route can be too pricy, because of all the little things I need to buy. Sound will also be important, as is light. We (my cinematographer) and I really want to get exposure to Red, so we are also view this Kid Zombie flick as a tutorial - learning experience.

[A.Fetchko]

Not to be blunt... well yes... I'm going to be blunt.

If you want a learning experience then then stop award dropping (it wins you no points here) and re-read all the informative and free information everyone has been so good to give you.

[kevin holmgren]

Thanks for being blunt. MY point was, I am trying to learn. I can safely say that I am the LEAST knowledgeable guy about filming on this whole site. My two friends by contrast have at least enough experience that maybe someone will take us seriously. My cinemaptographer won his Emmy for motion graphics, so we BOTH have a lot to learn and frankly are very open to learning as much as we can from anyone willing to share. And we have already revised many plans as a result of the suggestions here; including researching lighting and Trying to get some gopro cameras so we can start now, rather than wait on a Red; and some better sound equipment.

So if you are in the DC area, schedules permitting, we are open to providing free labor, just to get more "film" experience.

But ultimately I just want a break from my crappy day job, to tell some; hopefully, compelling stories.

Roger?

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Yeah ... I'm not taking you seriously anymore.

Your buying a camera in a few months ... and I should help you out because why? OH, because I have a Red and you want a free rental. And for my magnanimous gift, you are offering a day of labor in return? Thanks?

Look, if you really want to shoot a Red, rent one. And the glass. And the DIT station. And the DIT. I think you don't really get what you are asking. Head over to DC Camera and price out a Red Kit with lenses.

If you really want to learn that is another matter.

I firmly believe that you can learn lighting and composition with just about any camera you can get your hands on. I'm teaching a lighting seminar, and I'll have a DSLR, an old Canon XL-1 and maybe a Red showing the scene we are working. The point of that? Despite a ten year gap in technology, they will respond more the same than different to proper craft/lighting.

A Red is just an expensive toy if you don't know how to light and compose.

So, where is your lighting kit?

Your little video will be awful if you don't have sound lined up ... I don't see that you do.

You say that you don't want to invest in a DSLR ? You do realize that with just a little care all the accessories you need to make a DSLR a usable video system are also de rigeur on a Red camera right?

Look ... if you are serious then stop worrying about "Red" just take the offers of help you do get, with whatever gear that is, and go shoot.

Experience, not camera gear, is what makes you a film maker.

Another bit of advice: it sounds like you have no business buying a camera yet. So, don't.

Buy some lights instead. Then maybe some mics.

Save buying the camera for last. Cameras change too fast. I made that mistake. I bough an XL-1 back in 2000. That XL-1 gathers dust on my shelf. If I had bough an Arri light kit instead ... it would still be on jobs making me money with Red One or Epic.

The same can be said of audio. If I had bought mics instead ... that audio kit would still be working. I know because I have a kit made of mics all of which were available for sale in 2000. It gets hired.

[kevin holmgren]

Thanks for the reply. Really late so my quick response. Like I said above earlier, trying to learn fast and appreciate all the advice.

Current plan. 1 goprohd, 1 DSLR (d1300? - like the Sony a55) and buy a 1080p camera off craigslist.

Go pro is for this but mostly for the car sequence. Have a bunch of shop lights, but am looking at borrowing a art buddies lights. Sound will be via a digital recorder still to be ordered. And the DSLR is a B camera. He'll, it might be the A if it looks good.

Want to shoot with all cameras simultaneously, even if the look is different.

Hopefully storyboarding will be done soon. Visually, I want to really plan some simple, but visually compelling shots (yeah, who doesn't)

And again, want to learn. So not even suggesting a 1=1 help ratio. Learning starts with watching, then doing. So yes, we are happy to help. (no time frame suggested) so DO you have a shoot coming up that we might be able to help on?

What did you think of our earlier work at haute-spot.com?

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Thanks for the reply. Really late so my quick response. Like I said above earlier, trying to learn fast and appreciate all the advice.

Current plan. 1 goprohd, 1 DSLR (d1300? - like the Sony a55) and buy a 1080p camera off craigslist.

Go pro is for this but mostly for the car sequence. Have a bunch of shop lights, but am looking at borrowing a art buddies lights. Sound will be via a digital recorder still to be ordered. And the DSLR is a B camera. He'll, it might be the A if it looks good.

Want to shoot with all cameras simultaneously, even if the look is different.

Hopefully storyboarding will be done soon. Visually, I want to really plan some simple, but visually compelling shots (yeah, who doesn't)

And again, want to learn. So not even suggesting a 1=1 help ratio. Learning starts with watching, then doing. So yes, we are happy to help. (no time frame suggested) so DO you have a shoot coming up that we might be able to help on?

What did you think of our earlier work at haute-spot.com?

Clearly I wasn't snarky enough because you responded like I was a decent human being.

I wasn't asking for your help, but rather remarking that in thanks for lending a camera rental I get to work on your shoot - because I don't recall you offering to trade labor before.

The kit you wrote about above is better suited to the scale of project I am hearing about. You're still aiming a bit high.

I'd cut the kit down to a DSLR and the GoPro. Most DSLR's are 1080p cameras. They've been used in feature films and broadcast TV ... if you know what you are doing they'll be fine - in fact they'll look very much better in most cases than the GoPro.

In fact, with the right lens selection, you may even be able to use JUST the DSLR. I shot a feature on a Canon 7D. "A" as in just one. That was the only camera on the whole shoot.

I would advise you to not go for multicamera on most shots. Its a nightmare in ways you aren't expecting. Go single camera and focus on getting that right - which can be hard enough!

I still advise you to focus on lighting and audio. Begin your purchases with that gear, not camera. If you have light and sound working properly, you'll get better results even if you end up shooting the whole thing on an iPhone, as opposed to having shop lights and a scanty sound kit with a Red. (Not exaggerating.)

As for shoots I have coming up ... I have two. One set is closed for pyro, the other is closed due to nudity. (Actually not shooting nude, its a music video with risque costumes and wardrobe malfunctions happen ... a lot.) If I have something else come up, I'll keep you in mind.