Wave or Euphonix?

[Eric Santiago]

Well basically Wave Tangent vs Avid MC Color (Euphonix) for Davinci use and REDCineX.
Ive Googled and found a few opinions worthy but couldnt find any from REDUSER.
Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

[M Most]

Resolve 7.1 - the current version- does not supprt MC Color, although the forthcoming version 8 will. Redcine X works with MC Color, but the control scaling is very extreme and not very usable. That has been noted here several times and my guess it that it will eventually be addressed. Now, having said those two things, I personally prefer MC Color for a number of reasons. It is much more compact than the Wave and matches up well with a keyboard placed in front of it, the rings and trackballs have, for me, a much better feel than the Wave's separate controls, it is widely supported, has a nice, simple customization application, and it connects via Ethernet, which allows it to be shared among multiple systems without having to re-cable. The feel of the controls is quite nice on an application that supports it (I've been using it with Assimilate Scratch), and I expect that will be the same with Resolve 8.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The Wave works well and is relatively low-cost, it's rather popular around here. Personally, I found the ergonomics of the Wave to be strange and just did not like it. I recommend you try before you buy if you can.

[Eric Santiago]

Thanks folks for the help. M Most, Ill be buying version 8 and hopefully by then updates will be made to your findings.
Jeff I had the pleasure to test both at NAB this year but only briefly. Seems to me everyone was trying to get their hands on them at the BlackMagic booth :)
Im hoping more will chime in on this topic.
They are both priced the same so thats moot.

[Frank Weeks]

I like the Wave with Davinci but in all fairness I have not used the others. As Jeff points out the Wave is reasonably priced and has become quite comfortable and intuitive to me. Both will be available for DaVinci very soon. Both will make your grading easier.

[Tim Sutherland]

I just ordered the Euphonix, was waiting and hoping it would work with Resolve, and now that it soon will, plus storm and redcine x, we just need to get the rcx sensitivity adjusted, and i will be in business.

Didn't want to go with the wave since i like having the rotary wheel placed around the trackballs.

Tim

[jimhare]

Eric, another factor is how much you will be on it. If it's just for short periods once in a while, you may want the Wave so you can put funds elsewhere. But if it's heavy duty use, go Euphonix.

I have the Wave and love it! But I only need it once in a while. For me it was the right tool for the job.

[Joseph Hutson]

The Wave is what Michael Cioni suggested at REDucation...

[Tim Sutherland]

The Euphonix panel is actually cheaper than the Wave, at B&H at least, although you don't have a jog/shuttle wheel, there are button transport controls. With the MC Transport jog shuttle, it's move expensive, but the feel of the Euphonix makes it easily worth it for me.

I would guess Michael Cioni suggested the wave due to the RCX sensitivity issue with the Euphonix, that and possibly the easy bus powered usb connector on the wave as opposed to the ethernet connection and separate power of the MC Color.

I chose Euphonix due to the feel and support across applications that is finally good enough to warrant a purchase for me.

Tim

[Eric Santiago]

The Wave is what Michael Cioni suggested at REDucation...I met Michael at the LivePlay booth at Supermeet. Great guy very helpful :)
Now as far as price both units are the same according to Google.
So far pricing hasn't been the factor its the size and where I can put this unit.
Desk space is a min where Im thinking :(

Thanks everyone for their recommendations.
Every here at REDUSER is so helpful ;)

[Rob Gardner]

We bought the Euphonix after a lot of research because it just had more positive feedback than the Wave. We have been very happy with it.

[M Most]

The Wave is what Michael Cioni suggested at REDucation...

That's probably because that's what he's used for a while with Redcine X. It doesn't mean it's also the best choice for other applications. Ergonomics, feel, the flexibility of Ethernet connectivity, and size all play a part in a personal choice. If you're only going to use Redcine X, he's probably right. If you're going to use, well, just about anything else, you might want to try other devices.

[jake blackstone]

Euphonics works with Smoke, which for me is a deal breaker. So is the new Fuse from Nucoda. Also, an upcoming Baselight plugin too was demonstrated with Euphonics. Thus, I would take FilmLight's and Digital Vision's implied suggestion over anyone else's...
Anyone, who grades for an extensive period of time wouldn't choose a split trackballs configuration, as on the Wave. I originally had purchased the Wave for the beta testing of Resolve and within days it was sent back to B&H. It's just no contest in my book.

[M Most]

Anyone, who grades for an extensive period of time wouldn't choose a split trackballs configuration, as on the Wave. I originally had purchased the Wave for the beta testing of Resolve and within days it was sent back to B&H. It's just no contest in my book.

Interesting you would say that, seeing as how that's exactly the way DaVinci panels were for years, right up through the 2K in fact. It's only the new Resolve "Impresario" panels that went to a ring design. And I know a lot of colorists who prefer the 2K panels....

[jake blackstone]

Interesting you would say that, seeing as how that's exactly the way DaVinci panels were for years, right up through the 2K in fact. It's only the new Resolve "Impresario" panels that went to a ring design. And I know a lot of colorists who prefer the 2K panels....
Prefer? It may be too strong of a statement. Used to, more like it.
Having used DaVinci panels for years in the past, as well as CP-100 more recently with Lustre, I can't imagine ever going back. And, yes, my good friend and top feature colorist prefers CP-100 over a standard Lustre panel. There is a reason why pretty much everyone, including even DaVinci chose the ring design.

[Zach Gray]

Had a wave since before it was supported in color. Don't use it that much because the feel of the physical controls is strange. It works fine, but to me, doesn't feel right. I'll echo what Jeff says, try one first.

[OlaHaldor]

I was lucky to get my hands on the MC Color a few days in March last year. With experience only with MC Color and not with the Wave, I'm biased. But I'd take the MC Color any day over the Wave because of it's ergonomics.

It's supported in Resolve which will be released in June. No mention about when, but it'll be worth the wait. Trust me. ;)

[Eric Santiago]

Thanks again everyone for your input.
We decided with the MC Color due to form factor alone.
Since I have no major experience with the Wave, Itll all be new to us :)

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Thanks again everyone for your input.
We decided with the MC Color due to form factor alone.
Since I have no major experience with the Wave, Itll all be new to us :)

I was going to chime in supporting the MC Color on form factor and feel.

I also like the whole Euphonix Artist Series controller set. MC transport and MC color are built very well, the other panels aren't as well built IMO, but they are really good.

As a guy who needs a "do everything" box, the Euphonix panels suite me well. As someone who may need to break tasks up with limited resources, the Euphonix panels suit me very well, as I can then set an audio workstation up at my laptop and run video on my desktop just by separating the panels.

[brandon thomas]

I own both panels. Had the MC Color and then bought the Wave when i switched to Resolve. I'm excited for MC Color support with Resolve 8.

The Wave feels cheap, and i prefer the trackwheels around the trackballs. That being said, i've become very comfortable with the Wave and accustomed to the arrangement. It takes over my desk though, i want to cut off the bottom 4 inches of plastic so i can fit my keyboard where i'd like it.

[Kaku Ito]

Adding MC Transport to MC Color adds a lot and MC Transport feels so much better than the jog on the MC Color.

Storm supports MC color and supporting Wave soon, or maybe it was supported on 1.03 release.

[Eric Santiago]

Just received Resolve last week.
To date I cant get it to work with the MC Color (Avid/Euphonix).
Anyone else using this unit with Resolve 8?

[Rohit Gupta]

Hi Eric,

Did you install the latest Eucon 2.6 from Avid's website?

Also remember to choose the panel in Resolve Preferences if you have not already done so.

Regards,
Rohit

[Eric Santiago]

Hi Eric,

Did you install the latest Eucon 2.6 from Avid's website?

Also remember to choose the panel in Resolve Preferences if you have not already done so.

Regards,
RohitThe Eucon 2.6 not sure but selecting it in Resolve 8 yes.
Ill check asap.
Thanks!

[Eric Santiago]

Hi Eric,

Did you install the latest Eucon 2.6 from Avid's website?

Also remember to choose the panel in Resolve Preferences if you have not already done so.

Regards,
Rohit

Thanks Im downloading 2.6 now. I had 2.5.7 prior.
Im sure itll work now :)

Again thanks!

[Tom.Wong]

wave is lower cost, and it gets the job done, but everything bad people say about it is true, lol. I use it, it gets the job done, it gets me through my work. But I'm def gonna be trading it in for a Euphonix someday. or just take the wave on set for RCX one lights, and leave the euphonix for all the heavy lifting.

[Eric Santiago]

wave is lower cost, and it gets the job done, but everything bad people say about it is true, lol. I use it, it gets the job done, it gets me through my work. But I'm def gonna be trading it in for a Euphonix someday. or just take the wave on set for RCX one lights, and leave the euphonix for all the heavy lifting.we would have gone with the Wave but my the studio desk wasnt deep enough. So far this Artist Color aka MC Color is fitting well. Now to learn Resolve ;)

[Tim Sutherland]

I had to enable, disable, and re enable the Artist Color in Resolve 8 to get mine to work.

As a side note, I just realized today that with the Artist Color in RCX you get a 4 bank grade memory instead of one. Nice bonus.

[mcKayj]

Another point worth mentioning here is that the Wave will slide snugly into a 2U rack space while the MC Color is too wide. This was the deciding factor for me as I only use it on set.

[Jose Lomeña]

For me the most important is the transport section of the wave. Can you use euphonic artist transport control?. Or any other control in the market to do that?, no only playback. I use a lot the wipe between memory and playback with the transport wheel.
The only problem that i find with waves is that i can't personalize it, like with color. This is the only feature that i need for waves + resolve.

[Tom.Wong]

we would have gone with the Wave but my the studio desk wasnt deep enough. So far this Artist Color aka MC Color is fitting well. Now to learn Resolve ;)

Yeh, a lot of people complain about the ergonomics the most. The thing is just a bit wacky, and the super plastic make of it doesn't make it feel like it should be worth more than a 100 bux. but again, it works, and I've had no hiccups at all when it comes to functionality. Going for a Euphonix later this year, really feel no need to trade up as of yet. But i feel you with how deep the device goes, it sits awkwardly at my work station as is.

[Eric Santiago]

So far this thread has been helpful for this newbie :)
Im just starting on Resolve and havent gone deep yet.
I might have to call tech support for a few things bugging e.g. Master Sessions not saving, users not saving etc...
If anyone else is on the same boat as I am, Ill start a new thread and of course itll be RED centric ;)

[Tom.Wong]

I suggest going to the Cow forums for resolve tech support. they are LIGHTNING fast there.

[M Most]

I had to enable, disable, and re enable the Artist Color in Resolve 8 to get mine to work.



The 2.6 software fixes that.

[Rohit Gupta]

Hi Eric,

I would recommend contacting our support with logs. It is important to capture the logs immediately after you have the issue, and if you can also send an exported project, that would be useful.

You can capture logs using CaptureLogs.app at /Library/Application Support/Blackmagic Design/DaVinci Resolve/

And email it to davincihelp (at) blackmagic-design.com

Our support team will sort it out for you!

Regards,
Rohit

[Andrae Palmer]

This thread has been very informative. It seems euphonic is the way to go.

[Eric Santiago]

I suggest going to the Cow forums for resolve tech support. they are LIGHTNING fast there.
Thanks Tom Ill do that :)

Rohit thanks I just crashed again using R3D files. Ill find that log and send asap.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

This thread has been very informative. It seems euphonic is the way to go.

...Unless you can afford the JL Cooper or DaVinci panels. ;)

[Alexander Ibrahim]

...Unless you can afford the JL Cooper or DaVinci panels. ;)

I'm a little confused by the DaVinci panels.

I played with one a bit at Henninger in Arlington VA. Its really nice, I like it. Lots of useful buttons ... and I like the fourth wheel/ring. I kind of lust after it.

It doesn't seem $28,400 better than a Euphonix MC Color though. I could understand if it was maybe $6000 tops, but even then I'd question the value compared to the Euphonix Artist system.

Is there some extra magic in the system I'm not aware of? I mean, there isn't a GPU or two in there or anything is there? Does it make sales calls for you? Is there a a cute barista tucked inside that provides me with espresso on demand?

OK, I'm trying to be funny, but seriously ... why are these worth so much?

[jake blackstone]

I'm a little confused by the DaVinci panels.

I played with one a bit at Henninger in Arlington VA. Its really nice, I like it. Lots of useful buttons ... and I like the fourth wheel/ring. I kind of lust after it.

It doesn't seem $28,400 better than a Euphonix MC Color though. I could understand if it was maybe $6000 tops, but even then I'd question the value compared to the Euphonix Artist system.

Is there some extra magic in the system I'm not aware of? I mean, there isn't a GPU or two in there or anything is there? Does it make sales calls for you? Is there a a cute barista tucked inside that provides me with espresso on demand?

OK, I'm trying to be funny, but seriously ... why are these worth so much?
All pro panels are expensive. I think the new Baselight 2 panel is something like $70k. They all expensive, because they usually handmade in very small quantities...

[Alexander Ibrahim]

All pro panels are expensive. I think the new Baselight 2 panel is something like $70k. They all expensive, because they usually handmade in very small quantities...

I'm not sure that this is an application where hand building the gear makes a difference.

I mean this is a system where you want regularity and precision, not hand craftsmanship.

I suppose we all should all be looking forward to 3D printing and FPGA arrays.

[M Most]

I'm a little confused by the DaVinci panels...

OK, I'm trying to be funny, but seriously ... why are these worth so much?

Because they promote colorist efficiency. Direct access to more functions means quicker and more frequent use of those functions, allowing a good colorist to do a more thorough job with more artistry in the same amount of time. Efficiency may not be that critical when you've got many days to do a DI or commercial work, but when youre turning around, say, a television series, you have to do a awful lot in a reasonably short period of time. Series producers don't want to hear that it would take too long to do some of the things they're asking for, and a more extensive panel tool set allows you to get to those things and control them quicker. Not to mention that the controls on those panels are generally a bit more precise, with a better feel. And in the case of DaVinci, there are software functions that are only exposed if you have their panels, and that includes such basic things as cueing by time code (something you really need when you're doing notes on a long form job with the client sitting there), applying the correction from either the previous shot or two shots back (a nice time saver when you're doing a back and forth dialogue scene), and perhaps most significantly of all, rippling values down the timeline. None of these things - all very familiar to 2K users - are available unless you're using the DaVinci panels.

I haven't even brought up the fader handle and some other things, but hopefully that provides a reasonable colorists perspective for you. As for cost, the cost of the panels can't really be judged in a competitive sense because the DaVinci panels not only provide all of the things I just described, bu they also just present a more "professional" image to the client. And some clients in major markets not only want that, but expect it. So the cost of the panel is just part of the cost of doing business, not a competitive choice. For individuals and small specialty shops, much of what I said doesn't really apply, which is probably why you asked the question. But for major facilities and major market clients, it's a bit of a different picture.

[Stivan Widick]

Is the MC Color panel compatible with REDCINE-X in Windows 64-bit? Thanks.

[Hillary Knox]

So, not to hijack the thread, but to you guys who have used the big-boy panels (Blackboard, DaVinci, Digital Vision, Pablo...) which do you like best & why?

[M Most]

So, not to hijack the thread, but to you guys who have used the big-boy panels (Blackboard, DaVinci, Digital Vision, Pablo...) which do you like best & why?

There's no real answer to that because each of the panels is specifically designed to work with the software it's sold with. If you like the software you probably like the panel and vice versa. So I really like the Blackboard whem I'm using a Baselight. And I really like the DaVinci 2K panels when I'm using a 2K.

I'm not so fond of the 2K panel when being used for Resolve, which is often the case in facilities that have migrated from the 2K to Resolve.

[Eric Santiago]

Well Im not happy with my MC Color at the moment.
I upgraded to Euphonix 2.6 yesterday and today I tried Resolve 8.01 beta.
Now Ive lost all connections to the MC from Resolve and RCX.
I tried rolling back to v 8 and still no go.
Im not sure if it was the beta or this 2.6 Euphonix update :P

Update: Shut everything down. Unplugged Control Surface.
Boot everything up. Attach CS.
All good with RCX. Not sure about Resolve 8 yet.

Update 2: Not recognized with Resolve 8 anymore :(

[Eric Santiago]

Ill start a new post to state that all is good.
I think I see a pattern in Euphonix where perm issues are the cause.
When I chose an option in the utility app, it asked for my admin passoword.
weird.

[jake blackstone]

Very seldom MC color doesn't connect to Resolve. I use a solution, that works for me every time.
1. Select in Preferences no panel, save, restart.
2. Start, select, MC panel, save, restart.
3. Start Resolve and all is good:-)
Works every time.

[Eric Santiago]

Very seldom MC color doesn't connect to Resolve. I use a solution, that works for me every time.
1. Select in Preferences no panel, save, restart.
2. Start, select, MC panel, save, restart.
3. Start Resolve and all is good:-)
Works every time.And you mean restart as in restart the Utility right? Thanks Jake Ill try that :)

[Patrick O'Sullivan]

Does anyone know if the latest Resolve build supports the MC Transport?

[Dwaine Maggart]

No, it does not.

[ERIC PECK]

There's no real answer to that because each of the panels is specifically designed to work with the software it's sold with. If you like the software you probably like the panel and vice versa. So I really like the Blackboard whem I'm using a Baselight. And I really like the DaVinci 2K panels when I'm using a 2K.

I'm not so fond of the 2K panel when being used for Resolve, which is often the case in facilities that have migrated from the 2K to Resolve.

Wait, what? can you use a 2k panel on Resolve? how is that? I thought Resolve only worked with their newer (is it USB?) based panel. (and the Tangent, MC color, etc).

[M Most]

Wait, what? can you use a 2k panel on Resolve? how is that? I thought Resolve only worked with their newer (is it USB?) based panel. (and the Tangent, MC color, etc).

You can use the 2K panels, but it is only supported on Linux systems. DaVinci will supply you with a set of replacement key caps if you choose that option. A number of facilities who were invested in 2K's have gone that route, including Company 3, Level 3 Post, and a number of others. That's why you'll often see pictures of Stefan Sonnenfeld using what appears to be a 2K, but is in fact a Resolve. For some 2K trained users, the old panels are preferable to the new, in part because of familiarity, but also because of feel.