Stock Video/Timelapse Question

[Tom Lowe]

I was approached via email by a fairly bigtime feature and music video director asking if he could buy/license a couple my night timelapse shots for a major-label music video he's shooting. I guess he just saw the clip on vuze or youtube. He asked if I had my clips at a stock house and I said no, but he seems to be willing to work me directly. He's in LA, and I told him I could deliver in basically any format, since I have the shots in RAW 3.5K now.

Should I consider hooking up with a stock website?

He mentioned that a "one-time worldwide" typical rate is like $300-400 per clip, or that sometimes people might buy a clip outright for something like $1,000. Is that about right? These clips are only like 10 seconds long. I guess if you sell the clip outright, then that person owns it flat out and you no longer own it, whereas with the first option, it's just sort of a "rental" that they can use once in this one video.

I've never thought seriously about selling my stuff as stock, so I wonder if any of you guys can give me some general advice? Does anyone happen to know a good stock house to work with?

Much thanks.

[Steve Murray]

NEVER sell you stuff as buyout for only $1000.00 unless you do not think you will ever sell it again. I had a stock house offer me a buyout of $1k per 15 sec clip but they were willing to buy up to $50K per month.

If you stuff is time lapse and really good I would think $750-1,000.00 per clip based on how many clips and the total buy. That is about what most stock house charges.

[Tom Lowe]

If you stuff is time lapse and really good I would think $750-1,000.00 per clip based on how many clips and the total buy. That is about what most stock house charges.

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Are you saying the one-time use fee would be $1,000, or a "sell" price of $1,000 per clip?

My timelapse stuff is a little bit unique in that it is almost all night star trails, which is difficult to do.

[Mark Thorpe]

Tom you also forgot to add:

My timelapse stuff is a little bit unique in that it is almost all night star trails and its stongkingly good, drop dead gorgeous and pant wettingly enticing, so buy it all now"

Or something along those lines at least!

Cheers,
Mark.

[Tom Lowe]

haha, thanks!

I just got another email from the director and he wants four clips. So should I sell them outright or one-time use? The shots are nice, but nothing I couldn't part with. Plus it would be exciting for me to see my clips actually used somewhere, since it's really just a hobby for me! :)

[Curran Giddens]

I would only do the one-time use deal and sell for at least $1k each. Your stuff is really good and much harder to do then a regular stock clip.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Tom i will give you Advise ..do not ever insult your work by reducing its value
Ever ?? its from my expereince
as Enzo say's at least try to fixe your price (and keep some small space for bargain)
if you said 800 per clip to your director
dont accept less than 700 ...(very tied space do not jump too much)
good luck:devil:

[Finner]

Tom your time lapse stuff is 100% proffesional and it does not suprise me at all that someone is very interested. Just my thoughts but if he wants to buy I would imagine he plans to use it a few times or knows of people who would be interested in using it. Hence he will probably come back for more and I would suspect you would do better with 1 time use. Also then you can put it up to a stock company.

Just my thought's.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Guy's i think you have seen its timelaps clips or something ? where ?

[Tom Lowe]

This is my most recent reel, which the director saw on the web apparently.

http://digitallions.org/timescapes.mov

[P Sandoval]

Very impressive shots!!! Congratulations Tom.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Tom hope you update us for what will happen with you :wacko:

[Tom Lowe]

I think at this point I prefer just to sell the clips outright. It will be easier and I could use the money for this timelapse motion-control rig I'm working on. Any ideas about a fair price to sell each clip? The director mentioned that $1,000 is about normal. To me, that's a nice little chunk of change. :)

[Curran Giddens]

I guess you could always create some new clips similar to the ones you sell outright.

[Tom Lowe]

Exactly. And probably the next time I shot them, I could improve them, in terms of getting the exposure a little better, etc.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

1k For Each Clip Its Okay For Your Motion Control Rig Go For It

[Steve Murray]

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Are you saying the one-time use fee would be $1,000, or a "sell" price of $1,000 per clip?

My timelapse stuff is a little bit unique in that it is almost all night star trails, which is difficult to do.

Tom,

I would not sell these shots outright unless the price is right (see below). You have gone to a lot of trouble to produce these and they are very good.

What if you were injured and could not re-shoot them for a while?

I think you should ask for $1000.00 per clip for up to 10 sec. for one time non-exclusive use in one music video. If he comes back and wants to use them again give him a 25% discount on the 2nd use fees.

If he really wants to own them and you are willing to let him have them (don't do it man).... Then I would ask for $10,000.00 per 15 sec. cilp... that is what an agent would ask for and that is a cheap price to own these very fine shots.

Hell, I'll give you $1K each and then put them with my stock agent and make my investment back 10+ times in 4-5 years.

I get a nice check every month for shots I did 10-15 years ago.

Call one of the stock agents in LA and ask them before you do anything you will regret....

Unless you want to sell them to me and then I will deal with him..... And yes, I'm serious. PM me if you want to discuss.

Steve

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Tom,

I would personally not sell those clips outright, there's lots of potential for future customers here. Like Enzo said, you should consider placement with a stock footage company or even start promoting them yourself.

I hadn't thought of it until reading Enzo's post, but if you're interested in selling outright, I may be interested as well. I could lump them together with a couple of my timelapse efforts and place them with a stock agent. :)

[Steve Murray]

Hey Jeff I was here first!

Tom will probably have them on eBay soon...

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.

[Jim Arthurs]

Exactly. And probably the next time I shot them, I could improve them, in terms of getting the exposure a little better, etc.

Over the years there's only been a handful of the hundreds of timelapse clips I've got on the market that I wouldn't be tempted to sell outright if the money was decent... I don't know the specifics of your content, but in my case even the "above average" sunset/sunrises in my collections tend to come around again and again where I live.

I think you're on the right track... sell 'em and just go do them again... ain't that the fun part anyway?

Regards,

[Steve Murray]

Jim

You may want to take a look before you give advice on selling these clips:

http://digitallions.org/timescapes.mov

If you still say to sell... then tell him to sell them to me....

[Tom Lowe]

Hell, I'll give you $1K each and then put them with my stock agent and make my investment back 10+ times in 4-5 years.


Wow, we might be able to strike up a deal here! :)

To be honest, I'm not that proud of these clips. All I see are the flaws. I'm 100% self taught when it comes to timelapse (a lot of trial and error), and it seems like every time I shoot a new one, it gets better. That's why I am willing to part with these.

Plus I don't like the whole business side of art in general, so it's easier for me just to do a one-time deal. I do appreciate everyone's input very much. I'll have to give it some thought.

My main goal is shooting 20-40 really awesome timelapses for my first feature, but none of the shots I have already are that great, IMO. For me it's just been a hobby and a learning experience.

[Thom Steinhoff]

I have nothing really to add, except...

Holy Crap, Tom... Dude... your timelapses are amazing! I can definitely see why he would want to buy them. Those shots have "Red Funding" written all over them.

Shots like this could turn into a nice annuity--even funding the Mini-Red, not to mention plenty of accessories.

Again--nice work--really, really, nice work.

[Petr Dvorak]

Tom,

I would not sell these shots outright unless the price is right (see below). You have gone to a lot of trouble to produce these and they are very good.

What if you were injured and could not re-shoot them for a while?

I think you should ask for $1000.00 per clip for up to 10 sec. for one time non-exclusive use in one music video. If he comes back and wants to use them again give him a 25% discount on the 2nd use fees.

If he really wants to own them and you are willing to let him have them (don't do it man).... Then I would ask for $10,000.00 per 15 sec. cilp... that is what an agent would ask for and that is a cheap price to own these very fine shots.

Hell, I'll give you $1K each and then put them with my stock agent and make my investment back 10+ times in 4-5 years.

I get a nice check every month for shots I did 10-15 years ago.

Call one of the stock agents in LA and ask them before you do anything you will regret....

Unless you want to sell them to me and then I will deal with him..... And yes, I'm serious. PM me if you want to discuss.

Steve

I am with Enzo.

1. Your footage IS really good one, no doubt! (kind of NG, Discovery, IMAX level)
Dont underestimate yourself. If somebody well-known is contacting you and want to buy your footage,
then I am really sorry but you are in rank of PRO artists and so is your footage!!!

2. ABSOLUTELLY ALWAYS make good and exact content licence agreement (because now you are PRO artist :wink:)
so you can ALWAYS benefit from it in future and sleep well (dont forget specify penalty for misuse, etc...)
- learn and ask how other huge stock companies do it:
http://www.gettyimages.com/Corporate/LicenseInfo.aspx
http://www.gettyimages.com/Corporate/LicenseAgreements.aspx#
http://imagery.gettyimages.com/pdf/footage/RR_footage_pricingPDF_lores.en-US.pdf
http://www.corbismotion.com/About/Legal.aspx
http://pro.corbis.com/creative/terms/content/en-us/Certified_EULA_v1.0.pdf
http://www.creatas.com/legal.aspx

3. You can find some price range if you act like music video director or producer and simply ask at other stock companies for cost estimate (but only at best ones in your case :wink:)
http://www.gettyimages.com/Footage/FootageHome.aspx
(you can see prices after registration)
http://www.corbismotion.com/SectionFronts/Contemporary.aspx
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_search.php?action=file&text=timelapse&oldtext=&textDisambiguation=&majorterms=&fileTypeSizePrice=%5B%7B%22type%22%3A%22Video%22%2 C%22size%22%3A%22All%22%2C%22priceOption%22%3Anull %7D%2C%7B%22type%22%3A%22Image%22%2C%22size%22%3A% 22None%22%2C%22priceOption%22%3Anull%7D%2C%7B%22ty pe%22%3A%22Flash%22%2C%22size%22%3Anull%2C%22price Option%22%3A%22None%22%7D%2C%7B%22type%22%3A%22Ill ustration+%5BVector%5D%22%2C%22size%22%3Anull%2C%2 2priceOption%22%3A%22None%22%7D%5D&showPeople=&printAvailable=&exclusiveArtists=&extendedLicense=&illustrationLimit=Exactly&flashLimit=Exactly&showDeactivatedFiles=&membername=&userID=&lightboxID=&downloaderID=&approverID=&clearanceBin=&color=&copySpace=&orientation=7&minWidth=0&minHeight=0&showTitle=&showContributor=&showFileNumber=1&showDownload=1&enableLoupe=1&order=Best+Match&perPage=&within=4


4. ... sometimes you will find that is hard to repeat yourself and make that good footage or better again :wink:


5. I think that you can hardly find same quality footage at stock, so price should be higher :wink:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Over the years there's only been a handful of the hundreds of timelapse clips I've got on the market that I wouldn't be tempted to sell outright if the money was decent... I don't know the specifics of your content, but in my case even the "above average" sunset/sunrises in my collections tend to come around again and again where I live.

Yeah, we're spoiled around here with nice sunrises and sunsets. :biggrin:

I haven't really shot much stock, so maybe there isn't as big of a market as I'm imagining. But the little bit I have shot, I haven't had much trouble finding an outlet for it... The night timelapse shots that Tom has are the real gems. I'm still trying to refine my technique to get results that look as good as his. Not to mention, it's hard to get away and find the right spot. You really have to be in the middle of nowhere to not have other light interfering with your shoot.


I think you're on the right track... sell 'em and just go do them again... ain't that the fun part anyway?

Yes, if the money is right. For some of those shots you have, $1K may be a bit low. But it all depends on what you can live with and who you find for a buyer and all that.

[Gregory Leno]

Tom,

Another option would be to sell him unlimited rights forever to the footage and exclusivity for, say 3 years or so, but you still retain the copyright and ownership.
That way he can use it whenever and wherever he wants, but you would still be able to sell it again after the exclusivity time frame is up.

Usage rights are a pain, but there are ways to make it a win win scenario.

Sounds like a good opportunity though regardless of what you decide to do.

Greg

[Mark Thorpe]

Plus I don't like the whole business side of art in general......Understood mate but don't sell yourself cheap my friend. You work is very nice. Making my short films I see them over, and over and over again. I see all the flaws the same as you BUT other people don't.

Best of luck whatever you decide mate.

Best.
Mark

[Petr Dvorak]

I see all the flaws the same as you BUT other people don't.

... same here :shifty:

[Ed Watkins]

Amazing time lapses.

Out of interest what are you shooting them on?

[Tom Lowe]

Canon Rebel XT DLSR with a 10-22 EFS lens.

[Mike Prevette]

Tom the stuff looks outstanding. You should look into the new 40D It has a perminant mirror lockup mode that would be perfect to tlapse.

_mike

[Tom Lowe]

As an annotation to this thread, it turns out that the director actually saw my timelapse clip here on Reduser! I won't out him, in case he wants to retain his lurker status, but needless to say, there are more industry people checking out these forums than we think.

He paid me $1,000 cash for two short clips (one-time use only), and they will be featured in an upcoming Sony BMG video.

Now I am really inspired to get some of my timelapses up on a stock website. Can you guys tell me which stock house you think is the best for selling timelapse clips? I'm looking for a site with great technology, good people, and the most traffic.

Thanks!

[Curran Giddens]

Congrats, Tom!

I saw that you have the timelapse clip on Vuze, BTW.

[Tom Lowe]

haha, yeah, I saw some of HD for Indies stuff up there too! Vuse is pretty cool. I actually thought the director had seen my stuff on Vuze, but he told me in an email he saw it here. :)