View Full Version : Final Cut X - Now it is RED turn
Apple released a brand new version of iMovie called FCPX.
As we all know Apple is again declaring little interest on Red cameras and Red camera's users,
4K support but no native R3D decoding... and I am wondering.
On the other hand, isn't it time for Red to develope a FCPX plugin?
If Assimilate Scratch will soon implement a Mac OSX version of their finishing system, it would be real nice to stick with Apple hardware for the entire workflow.
Although something is telling me that we don't really know what's behind Apple's attitude towards Red...
so, maybe we will all be back to the 1/2 res Adobe preview OR hot transcoding nights!
J M Ferros
06-21-2011, 06:39 PM
There is more than one way for you to stay within the Mac world.
You could use Avid Media Composer on the Mac and use AMA to read directly from the R3Ds.
But you could also work as many do, and use SCRATCH to create a primary grade on the R3Ds before generating ProRes files (or whatever flavour of codec you prefer) for Final Cut.
I agree, that's all we have been doing here since FCP moved out of the professional market.
But don't you guys think that is Red turn now to come up witha codec?
Apple didn't even mention the lack of support for r3d files!
Maybe they are just waiting for each single company to come out with a plug-in.
Anyways you know what? I am waiting for Jim to come out with something revolutionary... it's just a matter to give Red Cine X a wider range of actions, including some good native ediing capabilities.
Solomon Nero
06-21-2011, 07:01 PM
This is kinda how I feel about it...
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?60135-The-quot-RED-quot-company-of-NLE
Adam Nielson
06-21-2011, 08:25 PM
That totally sucks. I would love to be able to harness the interface of FCPx and also the depth and resolution of the r3d file.
Subhadip Sen
06-21-2011, 10:54 PM
Graeme is stating firmly on Twitter that it is upto Apple - http://twitter.com/#!/gnattress.
Mark Toia
06-22-2011, 01:09 AM
AVID's biggest party ever yesterday !!!! ... I bet they have been holding there breath for weeks.. What a relief that FCPX is a complete dud.!
Good on you Avid :) and Adobe.. True PRO's
Eric Santiago
06-22-2011, 09:26 AM
Man I sure hope this thread becomes less hate and more informative...
Man I sure hope this thread becomes less hate and more informative...
I was waiting for something like that too.
In 2008 Red came out for the first time with an r3d codec for Quicktime. I only feel this should happen again with the new 64bit software from Apple.
Although I have to say... more I use FCPX more I understand where all this us going. A 4k iPhone for Christmas 2015.
Josh Beadle
10-22-2011, 06:13 PM
Who needs APPLE?!?!?! If they can't see the vision of what RED is about then screw them and learn the Adobe products!
Peter Strietmann
10-22-2011, 06:31 PM
The message from apple seems quite clear. Makes me sad...
Josh Beadle
10-22-2011, 06:34 PM
If you don't support RED - I don't support you!! Screw Apple!
Steve Sherrick
10-22-2011, 07:20 PM
Who needs APPLE?!?!?! If they can't see the vision of what RED is about then screw them and learn the Adobe products!
Apparently there are many millions of people who need Apple because they have made Apple one of the richest companies in the world. Our little niche of RED camera needs is a blip on their radar right now. Apple seems to be heading in a direction aimed at a mass market. The sense that I get is that if 3rd parties, such as RED want to plug into the FCP X world, Apple has left the door unlocked but not necessarily wide open. Time will tell how many walk through the door with FCP X.
Kenneth Williams
10-22-2011, 07:27 PM
Apparently there are many millions of people who need Apple because they have made Apple one of the richest companies in the world. Our little niche of RED camera needs is a blip on their radar right now. Apple seems to be heading in a direction aimed at a mass market. The sense that I get is that if 3rd parties, such as RED want to plug into the FCP X world, Apple has left the door unlocked but not necessarily wide open. Time will tell how many walk through the door with FCP X.
Well put Steve. It should never be an US VS. THEM mentality.
Josh Beadle
10-22-2011, 07:41 PM
Well put Steve. It should never be an US VS. THEM mentality.
Really? What's Nov 3rd all about then???
Matt Gottshalk
10-22-2011, 08:08 PM
Apparently there are many millions of people who need Apple because they have made Apple one of the richest companies in the world. Our little niche of RED camera needs is a blip on their radar right now. Apple seems to be heading in a direction aimed at a mass market. The sense that I get is that if 3rd parties, such as RED want to plug into the FCP X world, Apple has left the door unlocked but not necessarily wide open. Time will tell how many walk through the door with FCP X.
The 'millions of people who need Apple' are iPhone users, and that who Apple is now catering to, not film makers.
Stephen McCurry
10-22-2011, 08:27 PM
As much as I love Apple products and have been a FCP user. Apple doesn't seem to be heading in a good direction for professionals, despite their claims to want to support pro editors. Here is a list of what they have done in the past few years.
Apple discontinues Shake.
Stops making XRAID
Discontinues XSERVE with no announcement of a replacement
Releases FCP X
Discontinues Final Cut Server and Color at the same time.
I have a very expensive XSAN built on 3 XSERVES that includes a "never really worked" version of Final Cut Server. There are several blogs out there by former Apple employees that support the theory that Apple is getting away from Pro markets.
If FCP X does come out with RED support, we won't be using it. Currently we are looking at switching 5 edit suites over to Avid or Adobe products. I just hope I don't ever have to switch to a Windows PC because Apple stops making Mac Pro towers.
Kenneth Williams
10-22-2011, 08:40 PM
Really? What's Nov 3rd all about then???
I can't speak for the entire film industry. For me Nov. 3rd. will showcase two very important digital tools for film making. I know that RED will be the better of the two. RED Digital is a visionary company and I love their cameras. What I don't like is arguing on the set with "RED-HATERS"over what camera is better. The Alexa always wins, not because it's a better camera but because people are misinformed about RED. RED has made it possible for some to get into an industry that had been too exclusive for all of the wrong reasons. This has pissed a lot of people off. As Red-owners we have already put our money where our mouths are. It just seems to me that we could push this company far, far ahead of everyone else by informing ourselves and others of how great this camera is without making enemies.
Steve Sherrick
10-22-2011, 09:46 PM
Really? What's Nov 3rd all about then???
As of right now it's about RED and Canon making announcements about new cameras. For anyone working professionally in the industry, taking the US vs. them route is usually not very productive because at some point you are using all of these tools. I love RED cameras. But I can't use them exclusively because that is not realistic. I am faced with a variety of cameras in my line of work. So, for me most of my attention on Nov 3rd will be on what RED has done with Scarlet, but I won't ignore what Canon is doing because I need to know what they are doing because most likely one of those cameras will wind up on set at some point and I need to embrace whatever feature set it has because on the day of the shoot it doesn't matter if it is inferior to Scarlet, we'll still need to get the best possible image out of it that we can.
I see nothing wrong with being passionate about a particular brand of camera. That's been going on forever. It's why you see a lot of seasoned DPs embracing Arri's digital cinema cameras. They are passionate about the brand, just like many of us are passionate about RED, and why Apple users are passionate about that brand. It leads to these Us vs Them conversations and debates, which are often unproductive because in the end you choose a camera, NLE, compositor, etc based on what works best for you for the kind of work you do or in some cases the choice is made for you and you need to be able to adapt and embrace those choices.
November 3rd is for all practical purposes an informational day. No doubt exciting information but if you have to break it down to basics, it's a day for making an announcement about a product. That's not to downplay the impact it will have on many people, but I think Jim's thread about keeping expectations in check is important because even he recognizes that if you let this get too fantastical there is bound to be a lot of disappointed people who were expecting a miracle of all miracles.
Anyway, back to FCP X.
Josh Beadle
10-22-2011, 10:12 PM
I must be reading different messages from Jim than you guys. I see Nov 3rd as the day RED does a major beat down on Canon and sends a message to the industry. I think Arri found out this year you don't mess with RED - Canon is next. Both companies are behind the curve and have been given plenty of time to get with the program. Give this a year and people will be saying "5D what?" "Alexa who?". It's going down on Nov 3rd!!! Apple will see things our way in time. Jim and Jarred have a way of getting things done pronto!
Subhadip Sen
10-22-2011, 10:36 PM
Apparently there are many millions of people who need Apple because they have made Apple one of the richest companies in the world. Our little niche of RED camera needs is a blip on their radar right now. Apple seems to be heading in a direction aimed at a mass market. The sense that I get is that if 3rd parties, such as RED want to plug into the FCP X world, Apple has left the door unlocked but not necessarily wide open. Time will tell how many walk through the door with FCP X.
If RED had an option to enable R3D support in FCP X, they surely would. Deanan has repeatedly clarified the reason why there is no R3D support is because there is nothing to work with. So, I don't think the door is locked, it hasn't been built yet.
Steve Sherrick
10-22-2011, 11:01 PM
If RED had an option to enable R3D support in FCP X, they surely would. Deanan has repeatedly clarified the reason why there is no R3D support is because there is nothing to work with. So, I don't think the door is locked, it hasn't been built yet.
To clarify my sentence, I'm saying that Apple left the door unlocked, meaning they have mechanisms in place for 3rd parties to eventually tap in, but they haven't left the door wide open meaning I'm not sure they have made it easy for these 3rd parties such as RED yet. That's why the wait and see approach.
Steve Sherrick
10-22-2011, 11:19 PM
I must be reading different messages from Jim than you guys. I see Nov 3rd as the day RED does a major beat down on Canon and sends a message to the industry. I think Arri found out this year you don't mess with RED - Canon is next. Both companies are behind the curve and have been given plenty of time to get with the program. Give this a year and people will be saying "5D what?" "Alexa who?". It's going down on Nov 3rd!!! Apple will see things our way in time. Jim and Jarred have a way of getting things done pronto!
Josh, just out of curiosity what kind of productions are you working on? 5D and Alexa have had a major impact on commercial and TV market. Epic has been doing very well in the feature realm, and is starting to make some inroads in the TV market. I would agree with you that the 5D will probably be less relevant this time next year. Alexa I'm not so sure about, and it's not only specs we're talking about here, it's far deeper than that. I don't expect Arri to sit on their hands either. They may be willing to engage in some R&D warfare.
But even with Arri and Canon having some success, I think RED is doing very well and they have changed a lot of people's minds now that they have a track record. Epic has impressed many DPs, including long-time film shooters. I honestly think there is room for all three if Canon becomes a major player in this. RED has a head start in a lot of categories. Let's see how hard they can push each other. I congratulate all of them for their efforts. They have each contributed significantly in their own way over the years. If this continues, the customer will win for sure.
Eric Santiago
10-22-2011, 11:24 PM
I must be reading different messages from Jim than you guys. I see Nov 3rd as the day RED does a major beat down on Canon and sends a message to the industry. I think Arri found out this year you don't mess with RED - Canon is next. Both companies are behind the curve and have been given plenty of time to get with the program. Give this a year and people will be saying "5D what?" "Alexa who?". It's going down on Nov 3rd!!! Apple will see things our way in time. Jim and Jarred have a way of getting things done pronto!So what does this have to do with Apple?
Fredrik Callinggard
10-23-2011, 01:32 AM
Just as a reminder it took final cut 5 more then 6 months to become a program that pro's upgraded to. I can see the anger, but I can also see their side (I think). They believe in this new approach and have to make a road map for it. I doubt that they're not after it not being a true pro version. As far as I can tell the complete new approach and coding makes the road map slightly longer. THey also know it takes time for all dinosaurs to adapt to their new approach (and maybe they don't care? but then they're sure of that the new generation will catch on). It's supposed to be extremely user friendly for the ones whom never really edited..... so if it is and it eventually actually has all the features that we want... what is it then?
Ivan G
02-27-2012, 01:37 PM
This is seriously the biggest piece of shit software created. I thought Adobe Premier was bad in the 90's but FCP X has beat them. I started a new project since Apple has buried FCP7 and we no longer can choose which version to work with because 7 is just plain old garbage ad no longer being updated. But this is about X and not 7. I'm unable to move clips around with a independent audio file without having to add a slug. Can't find how to hide video tracks, not even sure if that exists. Unable to bring down clips into the timeline with the option of just video so now I have to go back and break the clip then delete. So I decided to bail and take what I've started to FCP 7 by using XML and of course 7 can't read it. The shit list goes on. FUCK YOU APPLE!
jaadgy akanni
02-27-2012, 01:40 PM
And still, in the end...you will learn to love it..to worship it even...I already do; in fact, I think of FCPX as the second coming....hehehe
Kalechi Noel
02-27-2012, 01:54 PM
@Ivan... Do yourself a favor and download Ripple Training DVD for FCPX. EVERY SINGLE ISSUE you complained about can be down, relatively easy.....
I'm 2x a fast, and efficient editing than i ever was at fcp 7 and Premiere....
It's the Future, Trust me!!
Michael Totten
02-27-2012, 02:14 PM
@Ivan... Do yourself a favor and download Ripple Training DVD for FCPX. EVERY SINGLE ISSUE you complained about can be down, relatively easy.....
I'm 2x a fast, and efficient editing than i ever was at fcp 7 and Premiere....
It's the Future, Trust me!!
I'm curious to hear why it's so much faster?
Truthfully, after I downloaded FCX (the first week it was released) I pretty much wrote if off for a couple years. Apple gave my $299 back... I'm willing to give it another shot though.
Now that they've updated the software and people have undoubtedly spent some time with it - what are the specific things that makes it faster (beyond the code).
Kalechi Noel
02-27-2012, 04:31 PM
@michael
In post, depending on project and what's required, we all have different needs.
What I can say with confidence is apple has simplified the most commonly used operations and consolidated some of features that were at one time only done in After Effects / Motion 5.
1) No rendering when applying effects!
2) skimming over footage to quickly navigate....
3) Consolidating all your music video takes into one compound clip , and instead dragging that one clip through out timeline instead of moving around 8 different takes.
4) Chroma Keying is damn accurate! (no need for primatte Pro keyer)
5) Syncing secondary audio in one click (no need for pluralize anymore).
6) The magnetic timeline is genius! It will take getting used to, but once you get hang of it, you won't want go back!
Download the ripple training DVD off torrents and have them teach and show it own it works .
Sergio Perez
02-27-2012, 04:51 PM
No native r3d support yet, which means a no go for me!
Felipe Leite
02-27-2012, 04:54 PM
[QUOTE=Kalechi Noel;951861]@Ivan... Do yourself a favor and download Ripple Training DVD for FCPX. EVERY SINGLE ISSUE you complained about can be down, relatively easy.....
yep, every issue you've complained about is just one click away, pretty basic. my real issue with FCPX is the SEND TO COLOR thing which is absolutely ridiculous, not acceptable. Also the XML doesn't work with color either.
Jeremy Neish
02-27-2012, 05:58 PM
I'd love R3D support. But in my experience, I don't think I'd actually use it all that often. It's just too slow, even with a Rocket. I think the combination of RedCine to do a basic color correction and white balance, then ProRes to FCP X is great.
And frankly, now that I've actually forced myself to learn FCP X, I love it. Sure there are things that are annoying and things that are missing, but over all it's a great editing experience, and I can now edit quite a bit faster than I could in FCP 7. I've always hated editing on Avid, it was so illogical to me. I'm much more happy learning FCP X than re-adapting to Avid.
Ivan G
02-28-2012, 05:53 AM
I've dug myself into a freaken hole! I've put over 6 hours of editing and google and I'm at a dead end. Frustrated as hell! No match frame, slip tool, solo tracks... It's lagging like crazy when I move clips around in the timeline.
I'll take a look at this and hope it helps.