DaVinci Resolve 8 released and available

[Peter Chamberlain]

DaVinci Resolve 8 includes multi-layer timeline support with editing, and XML import and export with Apple Final Cut Pro 7™. Also includes OpenCL processing to allow use on Apple iMac and MacBook Pro computers, new advanced processing tools have been added for real time noise reduction, curve grading, advanced multi point stabilization as well as automatic stereoscopic 3D image alignment. DaVinci Resolve 8 also supports the Avid™ Artist Color™ control panel. The full new features list is available in the read-me file and in the user guide.

Existing owners of DaVinci Resolve can visit the BMD web site to download the application. The web site also has a new user guide, configuration guide for Mac OS X and supported codec list.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/

Peter

[paulherrin]

nice!

wait, it runs on windows now?!

[Bruce Allen]

It's also awesome. Congrats!

BTW, the beta was INSANELY STABLE.

I work at a conservative company. We are on some betas but pretty much everything is kept a version behind... never upgrade OS X until others have tested, etc.

The big exception to this is Resolve. Even in beta it is solid as a rock and the support is fantastic. Maybe we've just had great luck - but the feeling is that if we ever hit a big problem, Blackmagic would be there for us day and night.

Thank you so much for doing it right. BTW the multitrack editor you guys stuck in it is pretty darn fun too!


nice!

wait, it runs on windows now?!
Get a Mac for it! Even if you include the price of a fully-specced Mac in the price of Resolve, you'll still have saved thousands or tens of thousands vs any other software that can even begin to attempt to compete.

Hope I don't sound like a blathering fanboy. But give it a go - you might be hooked too :P

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Adam Eden]

When does the LITE version come out? Hurry up!!!!

[Brandon J.F.]

When does the LITE version come out? Hurry up!!!!

I think next month.

[Peter Chamberlain]

Our Resolve Lite will be available later in July, as we promised at NAB. In the meantime, enjoy Resolve 8.0

[David Kellermann]

Downloading it right now. Thanks for giving this version out for free for us Resolve 7 users!

[Adam Eden]

Peter we have spoken before, I want to test your product pre SMPTE, I have spoken to quite a few of your dealers in AUSTRALIA and I am still not convinced any of them know how to integrate and AVID/ RED workflow as no one has shown me that yet. And I never received a response back from you.

I have $$$$$ burning a hole in my pocket at the moment and I am looking at the big control surface version IE $30K one. And still your resellers are saying MAC is better than Linux and blah blah blah.

The only one I have faith in so fair is Emmy ( i wont mention his name in full but you know who i am talking about).

Please release the LITE version ASAP so I can see if both my staff and myself can get my head around your interface as If i like it i will be dropping a bomb of money on your system.

I would also like to know if you in the foreseeable future will have the ability to make a DCP directly out of RESOLVE. As most boxes I have seen are over $100K and dont have even a 10th of the grading capabilities of your system

[Bruce Allen]

Peter we have spoken before, I want to test your product pre SMPTE, I have spoken to quite a few of your dealers in AUSTRALIA and I am still not convinced any of them know how to integrate and AVID/ RED workflow as no one has shown me that yet. And I never received a response back from you.

I have $$$$$ burning a hole in my pocket at the moment and I am looking at the big control surface version IE $30K one. And still your resellers are saying MAC is better than Linux and blah blah blah.

Adam, we're doing Avid & Resolve & RED combo on Mac with great joy.

I'd frikkin' lend you the dongle if you weren't on the other side of the Pacific.

Email me if you have questions - b o a c i n e m a (at) g m a i l . c o m

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Adam Eden]

So Bruce let me tell you what I want to do and tell me if this works....

1. Shoot RED/EPIC
2. Transcode to DNX36 or DNX-185x (some clients don't understand off-line!) via RED ROCKET/ REDCINE X
3. Export ALE to RESOLVE
4. Resolve picks up r3d files and works in real time with red rocket card and an awesome MAC/Linux
5. Colour grade/ Pan scan 4K to 1080P for finishing.
6. Export back as DNX-185X to finish in Avid Symphony
6a. DI workflow.... Export DPX or JPEG2000 sequence to "Something else" for DCP output.

This is what I want if poss.

Also if I am working primarily with r3d is a MAC or LINUX better?

I am looking at the large DaVinci control surface BTW

Thanks in advance

[paulherrin]

Get a Mac for it! Even if you include the price of a fully-specced Mac in the price of Resolve, you'll still have saved thousands or tens of thousands vs any other software that can even begin to attempt to compete.

I think I just looked at it wrong, there was a windows option on the site I just noticed, but I think that was geared towards their other software, or something.
I do have a mac I can run it on, I'd just like to run it on my more powerful and less expensive windows machine that I already have and do most of my work on... I don't think that's an unreasonable want. I guess I'll probably focus on a triple system next time...

[Bruce Allen]

So Bruce let me tell you what I want to do and tell me if this works....

1. Shoot RED/EPIC
2. Transcode to DNX36 or DNX-185x (some clients don't understand off-line!) via RED ROCKET/ REDCINE X
3. Export ALE to RESOLVE
4. Resolve picks up r3d files and works in real time with red rocket card and an awesome MAC/Linux
5. Colour grade/ Pan scan 4K to 1080P for finishing.
6. Export back as DNX-185X to finish in Avid Symphony

6a. DI workflow.... Export DPX or JPEG2000 sequence to "Something else" for DCP output.

That's pretty much exactly our workflow, which we do on a Mac Pro. Except:
- we ditched RedCineX the initial transcode. Just make the offline MXF files straight out of Resolve (need a $500 Avid DNxHD license). It's faster than RedCineX for us. Not sure why. Only drawback as a dailies tool is lack of internal RED audio output (this is on Resolve roadmap but not yet implemented) - but we shoot dual system and autosync in Avid so it's cool.
- we don't do the DCP in house.

But yes - you can work off offline from RedCine or whatever - then Resolve can later pick up the r3d files for the online.

RE: Mac vs Linux. Yeah, tough question. Mac Pro + redrocket is good enough for us. But we're not super demanding.

The thing is: if you get the Linux version it'd still be nice to have a $1000 Mac license to use for an assistant station. Heck, it's nice just for the ProRes output.

So why not just buy the surface (which includes the Mac version).

Hook it up to a Mac. See what the performance is like. Also see what happens with the new Mac Pros / Sandy Bridge Xeon Linux machines that are supposed to come out July/Aug...

The either:
1. souped up Mac Pro with control surface
or
2. linux hero box with control surface + cheap Mac with MC Color for assistant / on-set station. Or heck, even give it to your favorite client so they can enjoy the remote grading thing (it's crazy, try it!).

My 2c :)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[jimhare]

Hey Bruce, I want to get Resolve and still use the Red Rocket, though if you follow BM's configuration advice there aren't enough slots.

Can you let us know what card configuration you use and if there are drawbacks?

[Eric Santiago]

Our Resolve Lite will be available later in July, as we promised at NAB. In the meantime, enjoy Resolve 8.0
In the meantime? Is it released? My credit card and MC Color awaits ;)

[Christopher Barrett]

I've been reorganizing my tower since buying Resolve a couple weeks ago. Here's what I've done... left the ATI 5870 in Slot 1 for GUI, Quadro 4000 in Slot 2 for Resolve (no monitors attached), Rocket moved to Slot 3 (x4... drag but still functions) and a Decklink HD Extreme 3d in Slot 4 going out to my Flanders. I'm running a 12 core with 48 GB Ram. Premier and Resolve are handling R3D's beautifully with no hiccups in playback. I am so loving this raw workflow! I'm not transcoding anything for VFX and haven't tested how much speed I've lost for dailies yet.

I love the power and speed of Resolve with the Wave panel and though new to it am finding the learning curve manageable. Just upgraded to 8 and looking forwarding to checking out its stabilization feature.

[Eric Santiago]

I've been reorganizing my tower since buying Resolve a couple weeks ago. Here's what I've done... left the ATI 5870 in Slot 1 for GUI, Quadro 4000 in Slot 2 for Resolve (no monitors attached), Rocket moved to Slot 3 (x4... drag but still functions) and a Decklink HD Extreme 3d in Slot 4 going out to my Flanders. I'm running a 12 core with 48 GB Ram. Premier and Resolve are handling R3D's beautifully with no hiccups in playback. I am so loving this raw workflow! I'm not transcoding anything for VFX and haven't tested how much speed I've lost for dailies yet.

I love the power and speed or Resolve with the Wave panel and though new to it am finding the learning curve manageable. Just upgraded to 8 and looking forwarding to checking out its stabilization feature.Wow Chris your set-up is almost the same as mine :) Except that were waiting for our Flanders 24". What I didnt order is the Decklink HD Extreme. Cant I just hook up the Flanders to the RR card > BOB for now? We dont have Resolve yes so we've been mostly in REDCineX. And how is the RR working in the 4x speed? I tried to do that months ago but RCX didnt even recognize it.

[Peter Chamberlain]

I recommend you download the mac config guide and follow the guidelines there. Rocket BoB does not work with Resolve for good reason. All Resolve grading is performed in the GPU and output to the HD-SDI monitor via a Decklink.
Peter

[Eric Santiago]

I recommend you download the mac config guide and follow the guidelines there. Rocket BoB does not work with Resolve for good reason. All Resolve grading is performed in the GPU and output to the HD-SDI monitor via a Decklink.
PeterThanks Peter I suspected that. In the interim (since we dont have Resolve 8 yet), can we hook up the Flanders to the BOB for RCX.

[Christopher Barrett]

Eric, RCX gives me a warning about the Rocket being in a 4x slot but it still worked. I went to the DeckLink card as the Rocket only provides an SDI image through RCX, not Resolve. I don't have a BOB, does that change things? I'd love to get a slot back. And then there's the whole goofy "you can't get an image in Premier via the BM card unless your project is set to the BM HD Preset" Lame.

I currently just have my 17" Field monitor hooked up, but if this workflow / station prove to be ideal for me then I'll get the bigger Flanders too.

[Alan Gordon]

The real question I have is how many nodes can I get on an 2011 MBP?

[Eric Santiago]

Eric, RCX gives me a warning about the Rocket being in a 4x slot but it still worked. I went to the DeckLink card as the Rocket only provides an SDI image through RCX, not Resolve. I don't have a BOB, does that change things? I'd love to get a slot back. And then there's the whole goofy "you can't get an image in Premier via the BM card unless your project is set to the BM HD Preset" Lame.

I currently just have my 17" Field monitor hooked up, but if this workflow / station prove to be ideal for me then I'll get the bigger Flanders too.Thanks for the info Chris :) I guess Resolve 8 is out. Checking BM site and noticed the Decklink HD as well. You placed yours in the 4 slot, isnt the Decklink a two slot card? Im looking at it from their website of course. itll take some time for me to get Resolve 8 going. I have the basics like MC Color and Quadoro 4000. however the BM website states that the Quadro 4800 works best (not mentioning the 4000?)? I have one of those handy too.

[Chris Parker]

Does Resolve export ALE files?

Looking for a way to get the CDL information into the AVID bins' metadata. How are you doing this Bruce?

[Christopher Barrett]

I called tech support before I bought everything. The tech actually had the 4000's in his system (multiple via expansion chassis) and others here have mentioned using 4000's in their systems so I figured it was good enough for me. The card has ports out for HDMI which don't take up an extra slot, just a tab in back (like the Rocket's BNC ports). I just didn't install those. I recommend calling them if you have any serious quandaries. They were quite helpful!

[Eric Santiago]

I called tech support before I bought everything. The tech actually had the 4000's in his system (multiple via expansion chassis) and others here have mentioned using 4000's in their systems so I figured it was good enough for me. The card has ports out for HDMI which don't take up an extra slot, just a tab in back (like the Rocket's BNC ports). I just didn't install those. I recommend calling them if you have any serious quandaries. They were quite helpful!
THanks Chris! First buy Resolve 8 :)

[jake blackstone]

As most boxes I have seen are over $100K and dont have even a 10th of the grading capabilities of your system

Boxes like what?

[jimhare]

I have an ATI 5770, would that work? If I add a Quadro 4000/4800 would it drive my HDMI monitor with Resolve? I don't have HD-SDI monitoring and would rather not get a Decklink if it's not required.

It's been a bit difficult to get straight answers about altering the config and what will and will not work. I definitely want to keep using the Rocket and am monitoring HDMI only. Any advice?


Here's what I've done... left the ATI 5870 in Slot 1 for GUI, Quadro 4000 in Slot 2 for Resolve (no monitors attached), Rocket moved to Slot 3 (x4... drag but still functions) and a Decklink HD Extreme 3d in Slot 4 going out to my Flanders.

[Adam Eden]

Boxes like what?

Clipster

[Adam Eden]

I have an ATI 5770, would that work? If I add a Quadro 4000/4800 would it drive my HDMI monitor with Resolve? I don't have HD-SDI monitoring and would rather not get a Decklink if it's not required.

It's been a bit difficult to get straight answers about altering the config and what will and will not work. I definitely want to keep using the Rocket and am monitoring HDMI only. Any advice?

Jim that is the problem. I can't get straight answers from most dealers in Sydney. Emiliho from Future Reality seems to be the best so far, but the serious configs all have expansion chassis.

If you find a good dealer/support guy please share as I haven't bought the system yet till I do.

[Christopher Barrett]

What's kind of a drag with Resolve is it doesn't work with dual system monitors. You can't just pull the image viewer to a separate monitor like you can in RCX, FCP, PP etc... The full size viewer is a tab that you have to toggle back and forth with imaging controls. It really kind of demands DeckLink SDI viewing. This is how most high end configurations are built and I think the Resolve engineers feel that you should not be grading on a system monitor. They're kind of right about that... You can't get a 10 bit image on a Mac yet, for example, but you do get 10 bit through the DL Card.

Version 8 may work with ATI cards now, but I haven't really investigated this since you should be dedicating a Graphics card (with no monitor attached) to it anyway. Bottom line... you really need to be able to spend 8k to 10k on additional hardware to make Resolve work right. What's really a drag is I'm now out of PCI slots, have no eSATA and my SSD Module and Mags just arrived!

I hope that helps a little...

CB

[jimhare]

Will do Adam. Seems like Christopher's config is pretty close to what I want to do so am hoping to get some good news.

Maybe Peter Chamberlain can chime in on this?

[Steve Sherrick]

Jim that is the problem. I can't get straight answers from most dealers in Sydney. Emiliho from Future Reality seems to be the best so far, but the serious configs all have expansion chassis.

If you find a good dealer/support guy please share as I haven't bought the system yet till I do.

I think an expansion chassis for the graphics cards is inevitable as it's difficult to configure a system with RR, I/O, and a RAID controller. Cubix and others.

[jimhare]

Thanks Christopher, much appreciated.

There's a strange duality going on here. On one hand there is the hard line of "need to spend $10k to make it work" and on the other hand we see it working on iMacs and MBPs with no additional components. I'm a bit confused as to where the reality is.

For example, if I were happy to compromise on full realtime performance and do not use a calibrated HD-SDI monitor (HDMI only), what are my options?

[Scott Crawley]

Thanks Christopher, much appreciated.

There's a strange duality going on here. On one hand there is the hard line of "need to spend $10k to make it work" and on the other hand we see it working on iMacs and MBPs with no additional components. I'm a bit confused as to where the reality is.

For example, if I were happy to compromise on full realtime performance and do not use a calibrated HD-SDI monitor (HDMI only), what are my options?

Oh Jim, would you really cosider that? I don't know if I would run DaVinci if I couldn't have 100% confidence in the output. To me, HDMI monitoring with scopes is an 85% solution at best. Wouldn't you agree?

[jake blackstone]

Clipster

Since when Clipster become a grading solution? You really need to do your homework before posting. Nevertheless, since you did say "boxes", here is your second chance to come up with a better answer:-)

[jake blackstone]

There is no compelling reason to use RR with Resolve. At least for me. With new 12 Proc Mac system you can do 1/2 debayer in real time. It's all a matter of managing expectations. If all you want is 4-6 nodes of grade at 1/2 debayer, ATI or nVidia GUI card, with second 4000 GPU card, BM decklink and last slot free for something like RAID card, you're all set. If you need more nodes or you'd like to take advantage of new NR, then you need more hoarse power. You still have a free slot for a seconf 4000 GPU or, yes, RR. If you need still more power and options, then you must use the expansion chassis. Pretty simple really. I have GT120, GTX 285, Decklink HD Extreme and Fiber card and I'm pretty much set...

[Adam Eden]

Since when Clipster become a grading solution? You really need to do your homework before posting. Nevertheless, since you did say "boxes", here is your second chance to come up with a better answer:-)

Who do you think you are buddy? I have spent 2 months on looking at finishing solutions that include grading r3d and you are calling me out? It seems that you think your shit don't stink buddy.

Chode!

[Steve Sherrick]

Since when Clipster become a grading solution? You really need to do your homework before posting. Nevertheless, since you did say "boxes", here is your second chance to come up with a better answer:-)
It's certainly capable of grading, but not sure how often it's used that way. I always thought it was more of a conform/DI tool, with very good R3D support. Am I incorrect with that assessment?

[Christopher Barrett]

Thanks Christopher, much appreciated.

There's a strange duality going on here. On one hand there is the hard line of "need to spend $10k to make it work" and on the other hand we see it working on iMacs and MBPs with no additional components. I'm a bit confused as to where the reality is.

For example, if I were happy to compromise on full realtime performance and do not use a calibrated HD-SDI monitor (HDMI only), what are my options?

Well... there's always a duality between what "can" be done and what actually works well in a production environment, yeah? I think you could probably install Resolve on a MBP and grade a ProRes edit if you're working in HD. I spend a lot of time in hotel rooms and would love a portable post system but in all honestly, I feel my tower is even kind of restrictive and wish I had an expansion chassis for full blown 4k workflow. I mean, you can always want bigger and better, right?

[jimhare]

Absolutely. Grading doesn't always mean preparing calibrated materials for broadcast/feature film. For me it's more about matching cameras to each other, secondaries, stabilization, 3D, giving an overall look etc.

At the moment I bring an EDL back into RCX and work my original R3Ds. I have my Wave, Red Rocket, Sony HDMI monitor that I'm happy with, and output my work without incident.

My goal is to replace RCX with DaVinci to achieve more control. Not looking to set up a calibrated grading suite for broadcast/features.

If I get to that in the future then great, but for the moment it's just a nicety on the side, not a primary function. If the answer is "can't do it" then I'll stick with RCX. If the answer is "do it like this but expect this" then that's great.


Oh Jim, would you really cosider that? I don't know if I would run DaVinci if I couldn't have 100% confidence in the output. To me, HDMI monitoring with scopes is an 85% solution at best. Wouldn't you agree?

[jimhare]

Indeed. I guess the answer is for me to wait for the free version and gauge the performance for myself as there don't appear to be straight answers.


Well... there's always a duality between what "can" be done and what actually works well in a production environment, yeah? I think you could probably install Resolve on a MBP and grade a ProRes edit if you're working in HD. I spend a lot of time in hotel rooms and would love a portable post system but in all honestly, I feel my tower is even kind of restrictive and wish I had an expansion chassis for full blown 4k workflow. I mean, you can always want bigger and better, right?

[Bruce Allen]

Hey Bruce, I want to get Resolve and still use the Red Rocket, though if you follow BM's configuration advice there aren't enough slots.
Can you let us know what card configuration you use and if there are drawbacks?

1. GTX 285
2. GT 120
3. RedRocket
4. Blackmagic card

We have an 8tb internal software RAID-0 as scratch storage. Everything is backed up elsewhere, of course.

We were going to get an extender and a RAID card... But then we found that you can grade stuff quite successfully off of a FW800 drive! We get two streams of Alexa ProRes off an external drive. DNxHD, R3D files work too.

Look, I love RAIDs. Have a nice 8-bay RAID-6 system. I own eighteen 3TB drives, have lots of data spread across various other RAID-5 setups. I am not some kind of crazy RAID-0 advocating risk-taker.

It just turned out that for what we were doing, it hasn't made sense yet to spend the cash on the PCI extender for that system.

Maybe it will in the future - but probably would make more sense to put the cash allocated towards the PCI extender towards a new Mac Pro with Thunderbolt etc that gets rid of the PCI slot issues.


I have an ATI 5770, would that work? If I add a Quadro 4000/4800 would it drive my HDMI monitor with Resolve? I don't have HD-SDI monitoring and would rather not get a Decklink if it's not required.
It's been a bit difficult to get straight answers about altering the config and what will and will not work. I definitely want to keep using the Rocket and am monitoring HDMI only. Any advice?

My advice is to wait till July/Aug when the next Mac Pros are released if you can. Thunderbolt should sort out the slot issues - Thunderbolt Blackmagic card plus Thunderbolt RAID card should do the trick. Also very likely you will get general-purpose Thunderbolt PCI extenders. Your GUI card could work fine across Thunderbolt, for example. Soon there should be lots of way to play the game...

If you MUST to set up a system with an existing Mac Pro, your options are:

1. Get a PCIe extender so you can have all of the cards attached (best but most expensive option)
or
2. Forego the RedRocket - DaVinci's CPU-based R3D decoding is good - it uses ALL of the cores and is super fast. If you're okay with 1/2 res for realtime preview, you could sell the RedRocket and spend the cash on a 12-core souped-up Mac Pro instead. Then you also have a slot free for traditional RAID.
or
3. Forego the RAID - use internal soft raid as a scratch. Use FW800 drives. This works oddly well. But not for everyone of course.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[jake blackstone]

It's certainly capable of grading, but not sure how often it's used that way. I always thought it was more of a conform/DI tool, with very good R3D support. Am I incorrect with that assessment?

Yes, FCP, AE, PPro, RCX, heck even the iMovie or for this matter any other modern editing or compositing software can do simple primary and secondary color correction. Unlike majority of professional color grading SOFTWARE solutions, Clipster is a hardware based device, that happens to have a few basic color correction tools. Therefore, Clipster is NOT primarily a grading solution any more, than the ones I already had mentioned. Any one of the real software based color grading solutions, like Baselight, FilmMaster, Scratch, Lustre and, yes, Resolve, would run circles around Clipster, in case of Resolve on a Mac, for a fraction of the price of Clipster. Comparing Clipster to any of those devices shows total lack of understanding of the tools used for color grading.

[jimhare]

Thanks for the detailed response Bruce, much appreciated!


1. GTX 285
2. GT 120
3. RedRocket
4. Blackmagic card

We have an 8tb internal software RAID-0 as scratch storage. Everything is backed up elsewhere, of course.

We were going to get an extender and a RAID card... But then we found that you can grade stuff quite successfully off of a FW800 drive! We get two streams of Alexa ProRes off an external drive. DNxHD, R3D files work too.

Look, I love RAIDs. Have a nice 8-bay RAID-6 system. I own eighteen 3TB drives, have lots of data spread across various other RAID-5 setups. I am not some kind of crazy RAID-0 advocating risk-taker.

It just turned out that for what we were doing, it hasn't made sense yet to spend the cash on the PCI extender for that system.

Maybe it will in the future - but probably would make more sense to put the cash allocated towards the PCI extender towards a new Mac Pro with Thunderbolt etc that gets rid of the PCI slot issues.



My advice is to wait till July/Aug when the next Mac Pros are released if you can. Thunderbolt should sort out the slot issues - Thunderbolt Blackmagic card plus Thunderbolt RAID card should do the trick. Also very likely you will get general-purpose Thunderbolt PCI extenders. Your GUI card could work fine across Thunderbolt, for example. Soon there should be lots of way to play the game...

If you MUST to set up a system with an existing Mac Pro, your options are:

1. Get a PCIe extender so you can have all of the cards attached (best but most expensive option)
or
2. Forego the RedRocket - DaVinci's CPU-based R3D decoding is good - it uses ALL of the cores and is super fast. If you're okay with 1/2 res for realtime preview, you could sell the RedRocket and spend the cash on a 12-core souped-up Mac Pro instead. Then you also have a slot free for traditional RAID.
or
3. Forego the RAID - use internal soft raid as a scratch. Use FW800 drives. This works oddly well. But not for everyone of course.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Steve Sherrick]

Yes, FCP, AE, PPro, RCX, heck even the iMovie or for this matter any other modern editing or compositing software can do simple primary and secondary color correction. Unlike majority of professional color grading SOFTWARE solutions, Clipster is a hardware based device, that happens to have a few basic color correction tools. Therefore, Clipster is NOT primarily a grading solution any more, than the ones I already had mentioned. Any one of the real software based color grading solutions, like Baselight, FilmMaster, Scratch, Lustre and, yes, Resolve, would run circles around Clipster, in case of Resolve on a Mac, for a fraction of the price of Clipster. Comparing Clipster to any of those devices shows total lack of understanding of the tools used for color grading.
That's what I thought. I have never used it, so I thought maybe they had added additional features that I wasn't aware of. I wasn't able to attend NAB this year, so who knows what could have slipped by me. But sounds like it's still basically the same tool I have always understood it to be.

[Eric Santiago]

Thanks for the detailed response Bruce, much appreciated!Same here, thanks Bruce. One question, big time diff between the GT 120 and Quadro 4000? Is there speed specs like in Barefeats? Its going to be a long summer waiting to see the TB options :(

[Peter Chamberlain]

Eric, please download the Mac config guide. It will describe the proven options and show how to connect both cards.
Thanks, Peter

[Bruce Allen]

Eric, please download the Mac config guide. It will describe the proven options and show how to connect both cards.
Thanks, Peter

Er, yes. Sorry, Peter!


Same here, thanks Bruce. One question, big time diff between the GT 120 and Quadro 4000? Is there speed specs like in Barefeats? Its going to be a long summer waiting to see the TB options :(

Well, get Resolve first so you have something to play with while you wait :)

GT120 is for GUI only. You mean 285 vs 4000? I haven't tested. 285 was fast enough for us - and cheap - so we haven't really bothered. The 4000 is more modern but is a more efficient single-slot design. Quieter, less power-hungry but in terms of performance, similar I think... Of course I can't recommend anyone using a flashed 285 bought off eBay. But that's what my company did and it works well. In fact, we got 2, so we have a backup in case anything goes wrong!

BTW, did anyone notice the fun you can have with HDRx yet?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Marc Wielage]

Eric, please download the Mac config guide. It will describe the proven options and show how to connect both cards.
I'd love to read this Config guide myself, but it seems that the website wants a serial number first. You might want to ask them to fix this.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/detail/?sid=3948&pid=4448&os=mac&leg=0

BTW, I think you guys are going to pick up a huge amount of former Apple Color users.

[Arjun Kumar]

I'd love to read this Config guide myself, but it seems that the website wants a serial number first. You might want to ask them to fix this.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/detail/?sid=3948&pid=4448&os=mac&leg=0

BTW, I think you guys are going to pick up a huge amount of former Apple Color users.

Marc - You can download Config Guide without Serial Number first, Just click " Download Now " button below .
I have attached Screenshot for your reference.
http://reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15032&stc=1&d=1309425054

[Troy Smith]

Wondering with the mac/resolve setup decked out, how does it handle grading at 2k,
or is the mac route really meant for HD work.

[Nikolay Spasov]

Hello Peter,

Is there a way DaVinci Resolve 8 to import XML from Adobe Premiere 5.5?

[Scott Crawley]

Absolutely. Grading doesn't always mean preparing calibrated materials for broadcast/feature film. For me it's more about matching cameras to each other, secondaries, stabilization, 3D, giving an overall look etc.

At the moment I bring an EDL back into RCX and work my original R3Ds. I have my Wave, Red Rocket, Sony HDMI monitor that I'm happy with, and output my work without incident.

My goal is to replace RCX with DaVinci to achieve more control. Not looking to set up a calibrated grading suite for broadcast/features.

If I get to that in the future then great, but for the moment it's just a nicety on the side, not a primary function. If the answer is "can't do it" then I'll stick with RCX. If the answer is "do it like this but expect this" then that's great.

I understand completely, as that pretty well sums up the extent of my grading as well. I guess my mindset is just that lesser tools were fine for that kind of work, and DaVinci seems like overkill. I'm still getting used to the idea that it is so affordable now that there is no reason to settle for the lesser tools. Oh happy day;-)

[Eric Santiago]

I understand completely, as that pretty well sums up the extent of my grading as well. I guess my mindset is just that lesser tools were fine for that kind of work, and DaVinci seems like overkill. I'm still getting used to the idea that it is so affordable now that there is no reason to settle for the lesser tools. Oh happy day;-)Its funny we were talking about that last week during budget meetings. When my manager come up to me and ask why most apps are under 1k (recent) and meanwhile our Avid support is 2k per seat Im a loss for words lately.

[Eric Santiago]

Just contacted Canadian re-seller on purchasing Resolve 8.
According to them, I have to buy version 7 first then download version 8.
Is this true?
The paperwork I have to go thru to travel this path is not a easy one (due to corp standards).

[Scott Crawley]

Yea, the support part of the equation is the sticky bit, isn't it? When you need it... you need it. Is there training that your company could send you to and reduce that cost?

[Eric Santiago]

Yea, the support part of the equation is the sticky bit, isn't it? When you need it... you need it. Is there training that your company could send you to and reduce that cost?Pfft to date the Avid support hasnt been much help. We still have one (caseID) thats over a year old. Im too busy to deal with it and when it does come up (errors), I just shut the computer off and start again :P

[Dwaine Maggart]

Hi Marc, go to the link you provided, then click on the Config Guide download button. The page you go to will have a "Register and Download" and a "Download Now" button. Just use the "Download Now" button, and you won't need to enter any other information.

Dwaine

[Paul Lee]

Does anyone know if the 'free' version will support the Avid Artist Color (formerly MC Color) control surface?

[jake blackstone]

Does anyone know if the 'free' version will support the Avid Artist Color (formerly MC Color) control surface?

The only difference between Lite and Full version is the max number of nodes (2), single GPU for processing and no remote grading.

[Paul Lee]

That's cool, thanks Jake. We want to evaluate, even though I'm pretty sure we're going to love it.

[Florian Stadler]

Just get Reslove already. If you have color correction and finishing work to do it's a no brainer. If you need real time performance plunk down the money for a heavy lifting machine with all the cards etc. . If you don't you can go leaner.

Thanks to the Blackmagic team for all the great updates. xml import is huge. Noise Reduction, Saturation/Hue curves, channel mixer, Compositing cababilities, HDRx, Image stabilization, ALE export, FCP roundtrip. Wow.

All we need now is Audio pass through for dailies which I'm sure will come soon?

Great tech support as well. I got great help over the phone when the new install caused problems with my Red Rocket yesterday.

Here is a link to our color reel, so you can see what this system is capable of:
http://vimeo.com/22468087

[Eric Santiago]

Great tech support as well. I got great help over the phone when the new install caused problems with my Red Rocket yesterday.Awesome work! I recognize a lot of the spots :)

[Christoffer Glans]

Will there be any windows support? Since the dawn of the FCP fiasco, I'm looking at a powerful PC workstation instead, much more freedom and much easier to upgrade.

[Dave Blackham]

Just get Reslove already. If you have color correction and finishing work to do it's a no brainer. If you need real time performance plunk down the money for a heavy lifting machine with all the cards etc. . If you don't you can go leaner.

Thanks to the Blackmagic team for all the great updates. xml import is huge. Noise Reduction, Saturation/Hue curves, channel mixer, Compositing cababilities, HDRx, Image stabilization, ALE export, FCP roundtrip. Wow.

All we need now is Audio pass through for dailies which I'm sure will come soon?

Great tech support as well. I got great help over the phone when the new install caused problems with my Red Rocket yesterday.

Here is a link to our color reel, so you can see what this system is capable of:

Florian, Great stuff. You give us something to aim for with our resolve.

[jimhare]

My guess is it's because they have Resolve 7 in stock as hard copy, but not 8. What about buying online?


Just contacted Canadian re-seller on purchasing Resolve 8.
According to them, I have to buy version 7 first then download version 8.
Is this true?
The paperwork I have to go thru to travel this path is not a easy one (due to corp standards).

[Brandon J.F.]

Will there be any windows support?

Oh, how I wish...

[Dave Blackham]

My guess is it's because they have Resolve 7 in stock as hard copy, but not 8. What about buying online?

Its a non issue just buy the V7 disk and Da Vinci dongle and just download V8 online. We upgraded yesterday no issues.

I have to say Resolve on mac is turning in to a great system. Its very capable. I am not a colourist by training but I hope I can appreciate the feature sets and work others have achieved on it. Id like to ask what more expensive systems such as Lustre and Baselight, great systems such as they are, offer over a well speced Resolve system. Im not so sure its chalk and cheese.

[jake blackstone]

Its a non issue just buy the V7 disk and Da Vinci dongle and just download V8 online. We upgraded yesterday no issues.

I have to say Resolve on mac is turning in to a great system. Its very capable. I am not a colourist by training but I hope I can appreciate the feature sets and work others have achieved on it. Id like to ask what more expensive systems such as Lustre and Baselight, great systems such as they are, offer over a well speced Resolve system. Im not so sure its chalk and cheese.

I'll just give a couple.
1. Lustre. Unparalleled support for a concurrent workflow among other Autodesk products. Most elegant UI. It is EOL, but it is soon to be included inside of Smoke and Flame.
2. Baselight. Most flexible systems, custom configurable UI with best control panel on the planet. Soon to be available as a $1000 plug-in for conforming and grading on a Mac. It was shown running on a FCP7, now... who knows?
3. FilmMaster. Most complete feature set, that allows an almost unlimited creative freedom. It's pretty much a Photoshop for video. Best Avid support for concurrent work with the Avid Unity.
4. Pablo. Way, way overpriced for today's market. It is based on a proprietary hardware. But it is a beast of a system. Not really my cup of tea...
All of this translates into a much faster turnaround and colorist creativity.

[shashbugu]

I'll just give a couple.
1. Lustre. Unparalleled support for a concurrent workflow among other Autodesk products. Most elegant UI. It is EOL, but it is soon to be included inside of Smoke and Flame.
2. Baselight. Most flexible systems, custom configurable UI with best control panel on the planet. Soon to be available as a $1000 plug-in for conforming and grading on a Mac. It was shown running on a FCP7, now... who knows?
3. FilmMaster. Most complete feature set, that allows an almost unlimited creative freedom. It's pretty much a Photoshop for video. Best Avid support for concurrent work with the Avid Unity.
4. Pablo. Way, way overpriced for today's market. It is based on a proprietary hardware. But it is a beast of a system. Not really my cup of tea...
All of this translates into a much faster turnaround and colorist creativity.

I think you are wrong on this one Jake, FCPX blows FilmMaster out of the water... You should try it out. Its only $299 and you can even get your money back..AWESOME!!

[jake blackstone]

I think you are wrong on this one Jake, FCPX blows FilmMaster out of the water... You should try it out. Its only $299 and you can even get your money back..AWESOME!!

I did and I agree:-)

[Mark Wilkinson]

Has anybody tested the roundtrip capabilities for Media Composer and Resolve 8 yet?

[Peter Chamberlain]

Of course i'm drinking from the company Kool Aid fountain but I know there are a number of features in Resolve that you wont find in the others Jake mentions. So it's not chalk and cheese. I believe Resolve 8.0 will prove to be a watermark point where the majority of the market see it's not only the best value for your investment $, but provides a well rounded feature set that does allow you to grade any project that comes along. Sure there are extra features we will add. Send me those ideas and we will consider every one as a part of our future releases. For now, just enjoy the wonderful Resolve 8 for what it offers today, knowing there is more to come.
Peter

[Mark Wilkinson]

And Jake, I saw that your were looking at Smoke recently, where did you net out? Are you impressed with their color tools? And I thought Lustre was going to be ported to Smoke as well - ?

I'm going back and forth between Media Composer/Premiere -> Resolve -> AE post workflow and Media Composer/Premiere/whatever -> Smoke.

I'm a fan of the no-nonsense Smoke interface and online compositing tools. I'm searching around for another option for our long-form shows. AE for short form is easy-breezy, but 28:30 is a lifetime in AE.

Thoughts?

[jake blackstone]

Of course i'm drinking from the company Kool Aid fountain but I know there are a number of features in Resolve that you wont find in the others Jake mentions. So it's not chalk and cheese. I believe Resolve 8.0 will prove to be a watermark point where the majority of the market see it's not only the best value for your investment $, but provides a well rounded feature set that does allow you to grade any project that comes along. Sure there are extra features we will add. Send me those ideas and we will consider every one as a part of our future releases. For now, just enjoy the wonderful Resolve 8 for what it offers today, knowing there is more to come.
Peter
Resolve 8 is absolute no brainer for anyone on a fence trying to decide on the color grading solution. It's rock solid, powerful, expendable and it's getting better all the time. Oh yeah, the version 8 update is also free!!!
BM is being very proactive in interaction with users, clearly demonstrated by Peter and Rohit's presence here. And please do not forget the technical support. Users of $995 software are enjoying the same level of support, that was customary for companies spending hundreds of thousands of dollars just a few years ago. The very same Dwaine and Mark, who probably have close to 50 years of combined experience in post and who had saved my ass more times, that I care to remember, will answer your Resolve questions. And much more. How cool is that?
And yes, Resolve has some tricks up in it's sleeve, that other software can't match. Remote grading alone is HUGE!!! XML rountrip is awesome. So, I can certainly see the pride and swagger, that BM has these days and it's for a good reason. In no way was I trying to diminish BM's achievement. I was just highlighting the diversity of choices.

[jake blackstone]

And Jake, I saw that your were looking at Smoke recently, where did you net out? Are you impressed with their color tools? And I thought Lustre was going to be ported to Smoke as well - ?

I'm going back and forth between Media Composer/Premiere -> Resolve -> AE post workflow and Media Composer/Premiere/whatever -> Smoke.

I'm a fan of the no-nonsense Smoke interface and online compositing tools. I'm searching around for another option for our long-form shows. AE for short form is easy-breezy, but 28:30 is a lifetime in AE.

Thoughts?

I'm very impressed with Smoke. At the same time, existing color grading tools- CC and CW are pretty disappointing. Smoke has, in my opinion, the most complete tool-set out of any other finishing software. It is a true finishing box. You can edit, conform, composite, color grade, add titles, sound edit etc. and the list goes on. Said that, because it is such a complete box, the learning curve is very steep. At least for me. But once you get the hang of it, you suddenly realize just how brilliant Smoke is. Again, said that, I'd probably edit in FCP, PPRO, or Avid, conform in Smoke and for short form finish in Smoke. There is no need to use anything else. For long form color grading I wouldn't recommend it. I'd grab the Resolve for that. But once the Grade is ported, there will be no reason to use anything else, beside Smoke.

[Peter Chamberlain]

Thanks Jake for your kind works. We do take on board your valuable feedback too.
Cheers
Peter

[Dave Blackham]

I'll just give a couple.
1. Lustre. Unparalleled support for a concurrent workflow among other Autodesk products. Most elegant UI. It is EOL, but it is soon to be included inside of Smoke and Flame.
2. Baselight. Most flexible systems, custom configurable UI with best control panel on the planet. Soon to be available as a $1000 plug-in for conforming and grading on a Mac. It was shown running on a FCP7, now... who knows?
3. FilmMaster. Most complete feature set, that allows an almost unlimited creative freedom. It's pretty much a Photoshop for video. Best Avid support for concurrent work with the Avid Unity.
4. Pablo. Way, way overpriced for today's market. It is based on a proprietary hardware. But it is a beast of a system. Not really my cup of tea...
All of this translates into a much faster turnaround and colorist creativity.

All great points. If you add the Resolve hardware control surface this will help the speed of operation and narrow the field but are there any significant benefits with the other systems over Resolve. Technical , features or operation.

Our disclaimer we own Resolve and are finding a very flexible and intuitive system to operate and with the new 3D tools is much improved.

[Adam Eden]

Peter just ordered the big control surface along with DNX plugin , Just need to figure out now LINUX or MAC and also its between Storm FX and Future Reality for the mac or linux setups!

I bought the control surface, mac license and DNX plugin from Videocraft.

[Hans von Sonntag]

I'm a fan of the no-nonsense Smoke interface and online compositing tools. I'm searching around for another option for our long-form shows. AE for short form is easy-breezy, but 28:30 is a lifetime in AE.

Thoughts?

There are often misconceptions what Smoke actually is. It surely is not another AE by Autodesk.

Resolve and Smoke are no competitors, although there are some intersections. Resolve is a classic grading system with a big emphasis on colour, Smoke is an NLE like Avid, PP or FCP with extensive high quality tools with a big emphasis on editing (pretty obvious for an NLE).

Both eat EDL, AAF and XML. Smoke has additionally OMF/EDL I/O because as an NLE it has good audio capabilities - better than the classic NLEs have.

Resolve is GPU accelerated and made for a fast pace in a client supervised grading session, especially with the DaVinci Panel. Smoke relies not so much on the GPU, all VFX must be rendered for preview.

To a certain extend you can finish a project in Resolve. But for titles, compositings etc... you have to go elsewhere. Changing the timing, including sound cannot conveniently be done. A tedious re-conform is the consequence. With projects such as TV-shows, features etc... this is mostly not a problem because the edit usually gets approved in the off-line step. Compositings are created elsewhere, so are titles. These shots are already placed in the EDL or exchanged later in Resolve. If all is approved and the client does not changes hers/his mind you are a happy camper. If not, well.... Changing VFX means another application, re-rendering, exchanging shots, etc... and a very good house keeping regarding the project and the many, many folders down the tree.

Creating versionsn changing the timing, VFX and whatnot AFTER finishing is where Smoke shines because Smoke is an NLE on steroids and made for creative editing AND VFX. 95% of all VFX I have in my projects can be created inside Smoke. The rest is done in 3D apps and AE. House keeping is as easy as it gets because Smoke is doing all this for you, archiving is a breeze. You need a world class key? - no problem. Complex compositing in a 3D space? - no problem. Relighting? - no problem. Is a shot soft? - just paint the soft parts sharp. Need Grain? - please select a Kodak film stock. Animated 3D/2D Text? - easy. Shaky arials? - no problem. Wrinkles? - please your actress. Your Off-speaker has no punch? - EQ, Compressor, Reverb...all at your finger tips. Fast, quick grading, all RT? - err... well, no so good. Although the Colour Warper is a powerful too for delicate garding it's made to address colour issues in compositings such as colour match, etc... and not for a classic grading session.

Bottom line: Resolve for grading, Smoke for finishing. Great tandem and both are available on the Mac with an exceptional high value for money. And yes, Jake is right, the learning curve is very steep but can be mastered. There are many tutorials that will help you along. Be prepared to take some time - it will pay off.

Hans

[Mark Wilkinson]

Thanks for chiming in Hans - I'm curious what elements are you still going out to AE for in your finishes?

[Hans von Sonntag]

Thanks for chiming in Hans - I'm curious what elements are you still going out to AE for in your finishes?

AE is very good at moving graphics. In anything else Smoke is as good or better.

Hans

[shashbugu]

Thanks for chiming in Hans - I'm curious what elements are you still going out to AE for in your finishes?

its funny, but once you get used to Smoke, AE suddenly becomes a lot easier and Seldom unnecessary to use.

Davinci Resolve 8, is very very very very stable. I did a mish mash grade on a 17 minute clip. Just threw a lot of nodal effects at it. It is Solid.
Great job Blackmagic.

[Dermot]

the weakness of smoke on mac is huge, and that is the lack of node based compositor, you may get further with Resolve
IMHO Linx version is a very good tool indeed, the Mac version is crippled

I use DS as my finishing tool, and i have had nodes inside the color gui for years now, not looking back at my time on Smoke as a bad thing, but it did feel like i had an arm cut off trying to work with layer based comps, they added a real compositor since then, but only to the real Smoke, the Mac version is still a brick short of a full load, at least one brick...
i can see why you would want to keep AE around if you were chained to a Smack
I keep Nuke on my DS for the same reason ;-)

Oh yea the color tools in DS are far better than the color warper in Smoke.. i grade features in DS without significant pain, and end up with 80% + of the show having nodes by the final pass... nodes rok!

I'm looking at building a Resolve suite even tho it goes against my core ideals of having all tools avb to the artist, the major thing holding me back is doubts about Apple's commitment to the machine underneath the Resolve software

Other systems i am looking at are Pablo PA, Scratch or a third DS (i own two already) - decisions to be made by late summer, i do prefer Resolve, can't see the ROI on the Linux system, can't see the ROI on Smoke ultimate, Mystika, Baselight, Nucoda, full Pablo either

Watching this tread with interest, the majority of my work is shot on RED

d/

[Uli Plank]

Have a look at the Hackintosh options, in case Apple gives up on MacPro…

[jake blackstone]

the weakness of smoke on mac is huge, and that is the lack of node based compositor, you may get further with Resolve
IMHO Linx version is a very good tool indeed, the Mac version is crippled
Wow. Let us know how well the compostiing on Resolve goes for you. And you're dead wrong on the lack of nodes. Either Smoke uses nodes based compositing. In fact they are identical.

not looking back at my time on Smoke as a bad thing, but it did feel like i had an arm cut off trying to work with layer based comps, they added a real compositor since then, but only to the real Smoke, the Mac version is still a brick short of a full load, at least one brick...
The only difference between Smoke Advanced and Smak is lack of Batch.

i grade features in DS without significant pain, and end up with 80% + of the show having nodes by the final pass... nodes rok!
From this statement, it is obvious, that color grading is not your forte. Nodes in color grading do not rok. In color grading layers actually much more efficient way of operation. Just look at Baselight, Lustre, FilmMaster, Pablo, Scratch. They all use layers. Nodes are much more useful in compositing. So, no, you're wrong again.



Other systems i am looking at are Pablo PA, Scratch or a third DS (i own two already) - decisions to be made by late summer

d/
You do know, that Pablo PA is just a conforming software, right?

[M Most]

From this statement, it is obvious, that color grading is not your forte. Nodes in color grading do not rok. In color grading layers actually much more efficient way of operation. Just look at Baselight, Lustre, FilmMaster, Pablo, Scratch. They all use layers. Nodes are much more useful in compositing. So, no, you're wrong again.


He's not really wrong, it's largely a matter of semantics. The user interface is not always a direct reflection of what's going on in terms of a process flow. Since you and I both know Baselight pretty well, I'll use that as an example. The UI in Baselight presents everything as a stack comprised of layers, but if you think about how those layers are architected, Filmlight includes a Reference strip with almost all qualifiers. This allows you to "feed" any qualifier from any layer, which is exactly what nodes get you. It's simply presented a bit differently. But in terms of the process flow, it's nearly identical.

Flexibility is what's desired, but flexibility comes in different wrappers. As long as the flexibility is there, you're really just talking about a screen design. That doesn't make Dermot "wrong," it just means he's looking at a different screen display than you are. And quite frankly, I kind of like the nodal display of Resolve. It allows multiple uses of things like external mattes without having to clutter up a layer stack, and it allows a very quick view of what each node is doing when you need to modify something (Baselight also has that with the pop-up display on the cut view, but it was only added in the last 6 months). Your view is not that of every professional colorist in the world, even though you sometimes give the impression that it is. Nothing is absolute, and everyone has a different approach and mental process. That's why all of these different tools exist, and why they all have their own following. Everything that's being said here is just an opinion, not a fact. Someone else having a different opinion than you doesn't make them "wrong," and it doesn't make you "right."

[Dermot]

Wow. Let us know how well the compostiing on Resolve goes for you.

Nooooo!!!!! I mean that.. but if i am going to use a more focused tool, then i understand that i am losing what i hold dear... a overarching tool set



you're dead wrong on the lack of nodes. Either Smoke uses nodes based compositing. In fact they are identical. The only difference between Smoke Advanced and Smak is lack of Batch.

Yup, just what i said... for my workflow it's a big deal.. you may be fine with it, and find smack's really decent 3D comp'n to be of more use to you, but it's not my happy place, prefering DS's wide range of tools for my work



From this statement, it is obvious, that color grading is not your forte. Nodes in color grading do not rok. In color grading layers actually much more efficient way of operation. Just look at Baselight, Lustre, FilmMaster, Pablo, Scratch. They all use layers. Nodes are much more useful in compositing. So, no, you're wrong again.

Not wrong, just not agreeing wit you... gradeing & finishing is what i do day in / day out... features, short films, TVC's... so Jake, i guess the obvious is not really that obvious... kinda cool that way.. i've never updated my IMDB, not a member.. but do chk it out for a partial (and out of date) credit list.. Avid used my work for their current DS gradeing showcase BTW, showing nodes, paint and effects rolled into the color interface, there is real world use for nodes in gradeing, chk it out, it a music video for the band Metric, use in the last Twilight film, i don't oftern do music video's ( this is the first one this decade) tho;
http://www.avid.com/US/avid-tv/AvidDSPart2CorrectingColor/shadowbox





You do know, that Pablo PA is just a conforming software, right?
That depends upon how it's configured... software is the same, much more than conform

We can agree that we don't create the resualts in the same way I'm sure, i don't choose to work inside the same toolsets that you chose to.. my work is good, clients return time and time again - they like how i work and where they get to at the end of the day... sky replacement? no sweat... done before your back from coffee... i've had five days off so far this year;-)

d/

[jake blackstone]

He's not really wrong, it's largely a matter of semantics. The user interface is not always a direct reflection of what's going on in terms of a process flow. Since you and I both know Baselight pretty well, I'll use that as an example. The UI in Baselight presents everything as a stack comprised of layers, but if you think about how those layers are architected, Filmlight includes a Reference strip with almost all qualifiers. This allows you to "feed" any qualifier from any layer, which is exactly what nodes get you. It's simply presented a bit differently. But in terms of the process flow, it's nearly identical.

Flexibility is what's desired, but flexibility comes in different wrappers. As long as the flexibility is there, you're really just talking about a screen design. That doesn't make Dermot "wrong," it just means he's looking at a different screen display than you are. And quite frankly, I kind of like the nodal display of Resolve. It allows multiple uses of things like external mattes without having to clutter up a layer stack, and it allows a very quick view of what each node is doing when you need to modify something (Baselight also has that with the pop-up display on the cut view, but it was only added in the last 6 months). Your view is not that of every professional colorist in the world, even though you sometimes give the impression that it is. Nothing is absolute, and everyone has a different approach and mental process. That's why all of these different tools exist, and why they all have their own following. Everything that's being said here is just an opinion, not a fact. Someone else having a different opinion than you doesn't make them "wrong," and it doesn't make you "right."

Well, don't forget Lustre. It hides nodes behind layers, which really are one and the same. Pushing "esc" on Lustre will show you nodes, that normally presented as layers. But that is exactly my point. I don't think node DISPLAY is efficient for color grading and that is why Lustre "prefers" layers to nodes. Nodes can be and very often are messy and often it is not really easy to see the grade flow with so many nodes. On FilmMaster I can name each layer and truly see with the glance what is going on with my grade. Baselight introduced the new pop up in order to address this "look at the glance" shortcoming. Essentially layers and nodes are the same thing and i'm not arguing that. My main argument is competitive operational effectiveness of nodes vs layers display for color grading. In MY OPININON, which is shared by every manufacturer, except for BM, layers display is a better way to go:-)
I noticed, that from the very beginning you were very anti-Resolve, but recently, it appears, that you had changed your mind. What gives?:-)

[jake blackstone]

chk it out, it a music video for the band Metric, use in the last Twilight film, i don't oftern do music video's ( this is the first one this decade) tho;
http://www.avid.com/US/avid-tv/AvidDSPart2CorrectingColor/shadowbox





d/

Do you mean this video? http://vimeo.com/12122196
As far as the Avid color grading demo, I had actually looked at it a while ago, when I was doing my finishing app research. The demo looked so pailful, that I ended up with a Smoke:-) BTW, just curios, does Avid DS uses any kind of control panel?

[Michael Lindsay]

I'll just give a couple.
1. Lustre... ...It is EOL, but it is soon to be included inside of Smoke and Flame.


Hi Jake

Not doubting you (i've heard similar chat from other individuals) but what is your source for this statement (for example : hunch, loose lip beta tester, overselling salesman, leaked doc.... )

Also is this going to be another smoke advanced only advantage or will smac benefit??

Thanks

Michael

[Dermot]

Do you mean this video? http://vimeo.com/12122196
As far as the Avid color grading demo, I had actually looked at it a while ago, when I was doing my finishing app research. The demo looked so pailful, that I ended up with a Smoke:-)
The vimeo link seems to be dead, but if it's the same video, then yea it's my work, Michael Forest did the tutorial's tho... i ended up with the job as the house that this producer normaly went to could not finsh in their smoke & grade in their Lustre with MX footage, and have a combersome kludge of doing the assy in Scratch, rendering DPX, moving those into Smoke, then into Lustre... a one stop box that did it all was a good choice for them...esp as i could get back into the SDK anytime and comp layers of seperatly debayered shots together - Oliver Peters did a story about it at the time;
http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/?s=dermot

look at the screen gab halfway down of a comp, and you can see why Smack is not the tool for me...
It's OK that you didn't grab the power of DS color tools, they are not easy to sit down with and get a handle on as you really need to know the paint & composting to make them sing, and that's a learning curve for sure.. painful? maybe if you don't know the tools... not an issue for me tho.


BTW, just curios, does Avid DS uses any kind of control panel?
You know the old line - "Those who know, can't say & those who say, don't know" ? On the street, not yet, Avid has been typcialy tight lipped, but have said that MC color is going to be supported.

that surface support in common with Resolve + the nodes on offer in Resolve + the good chance at a reasonable ROI in this wacky market + MXF support + gradeing is now 80% of my workflow = Resolve at the top of my list for new tools

d/

[jake blackstone]

The vimeo link seems to be dead, but if it's the same video, then yea it's my work, Michael Forest did the tutorial's tho... i ended up with the job as the house that this producer normaly went to could not finsh in their smoke & grade in their Lustre with MX footage, and have a combersome kludge of doing the assy in Scratch, rendering DPX, moving those into Smoke, then into Lustre... a one stop box that did it all was a good choice for them...esp as i could get back into the SDK anytime and comp layers of seperatly debayered shots together - Oliver Peters did a story about it at the time;
http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/?s=dermot

look at the screen gab halfway down of a comp, and you can see why Smack is not the tool for me...
It's OK that you didn't grab the power of DS color tools, they are not easy to sit down with and get a handle on as you really need to know the paint & composting to make them sing, and that's a learning curve for sure.. painful? maybe if you don't know the tools... not an issue for me tho.


You know the old line - "Those who know, can't say & those who say, don't know" ? On the street, not yet, Avid has been typcialy tight lipped, but have said that MC color is going to be supported.

that surface support in common with Resolve + the nodes on offer in Resolve + the good chance at a reasonable ROI in this wacky market + gradeing is now 80% of my workflow = Resolve at the top of my list for new tools

d/

Isn't that ironic, that Smoke works with Avid MC Control, but Avid DS does not?:-) How does one really can call something a color grading device, if it doesn't even support any kind of control panel is...strange to say the least.

[jake blackstone]

Hi Jake

Not doubting you (i've heard similar chat from other individuals) but what is your source for this statement (for example : hunch, loose lip beta tester, overselling salesman, leaked doc.... )

Also is this going to be another smoke advanced only advantage or will smac benefit??

Thanks

Michael

Obviously, until Grade shows up (I heard IBC) inside Smoke and or Autodesk makes an official announcement, it's a rumor. I can't divulge the name of the person or persons, but it was from people in the know:-) From what i'd been told, it will be in Smac as well. So, let's hope the info is correct:-)

[Dermot]

Isn't that ironic, that Smoke works with Avid MC Control, but Avid DS does not?:-) How does one really can call something a color grading device, if it doesn't even support any kind of control panel is...strange to say the least.

can you say Pablo? (for the first few years)

Worked for a pile of folks... some Pablo artists still prefer the pen and tablet... everyone is diffrent....

I would love to have big balls, heads up gradeing without the muscle memory would be a great thing, moveing mutiple paramiters concurrently would also be a great thing... but not at the cost of losing the tools i use everyday ;-)



d/

[M Most]

Well, don't forget Lustre. It hides nodes behind layers, which really are one and the same. Pushing "esc" on Lustre will show you nodes, that normally presented as layers. But that is exactly my point. I don't think node DISPLAY is efficient for color grading and that is why Lustre "prefers" layers to nodes. Nodes can be and very often are messy and often it is not really easy to see the grade flow with so many nodes. On FilmMaster I can name each layer and truly see with the glance what is going on with my grade. Baselight introduced the new pop up in order to address this "look at the glance" shortcoming. Essentially layers and nodes are the same thing and i'm not arguing that. My main argument is competitive operational effectiveness of nodes vs layers display for color grading. In MY OPININON, which is shared by every manufacturer, except for BM, layers display is a better way to go:-)

For a long time, both editors and colorists in Europe used pens and tablets for input (partly the influence of Quantel, but later with Flame, Smoke, etc.). In the US, there were a lot fewer Quantel seats, and even when Flame arrived, many operators used a mouse rather than the pen and tablet. When one uses a pen and tablet as a primary tool, a node based interface is much more intuitive (as is a "button heavy" interface, such as Lustre). However, if one uses a dedicated control panel, its usefulness is diminished because it becomes a bit troublesome to map things like node reconnections to a dedicated panel that is button oriented. So the interface and its usefulness is inexorably tied to the working methods of the operator. As someone who uses a dedicated panel for color work, that probably influences your opinion on layers vs. nodes, since a layer interface is more cleanly and simply mappable to a button oriented panel.


I noticed, that from the very beginning you were very anti-Resolve, but recently, it appears, that you had changed your mind. What gives?:-)

I don't think I was ever "anti Resolve" in terms of the program itself. I was anti "ultra cheap/free" Resolve because I felt - and still feel - that ultimately the pricing policies will have a negative effect on one's ability to make a living in our industry. I am pretty familiar with the new version now, and I see a lot to like as a product, and a number of things fixed since the previous versions. I also still see some limitations for the type of work I do (i.e., lack of basic effect support for XML and AAF imports that ultimately limits the usefulness of that approach, lack of a log based grading control set, and a few other things) as well as some bugs, but these things will likely be addressed over time because one of the pleasant surprises of the Blackmagic takeover has been that they are still quite interested and supportive of the higher end of the market even as they roll out the "free" version, unlike another company that's named after a fruit.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Coming from an animation and compositing perspective, nodes and layers are pretty much the same thing. Nodes can be more powerful in certain implementations, but in the case of Resolve, they only offer serialized and parallel nodes. So it's nothing more than an alternative representation for a layered stack.

Personally, I prefer the nodal approach, I use a Wacom tablet with keyboard most of the time. I've used other panels, but found that even after getting pretty decent with the panel, I still preferred my tablet. The Resolve panel looks excellent, but out of the budget for my small operation at the time. Resolve isn't too button heavy, but it's also geared to work with their control surface or other panel options, so there are times when the keyboard and tablet are not ideal. I'm getting pretty quick with it in Resolve, though and I find I'm currently more productive with the tablet than with the Tangent Wave that I recently sold.

[Peter Chamberlain]

Resolve was defined as a nodal based corrector from the very beginning and this does permit simple 'layer' approach to grading or a far more complex structure, depending on your personal style. I think the ability to select the source for each node, for both the image and key, makes it more flexible than the normal layer approach but doesn't make it too complicated either. For those that like nodes the 'Toggle Display Mode' gives a lot more canvas to work with.

[shashbugu]

the weakness of smoke on mac is huge, and that is the lack of node based compositor, you may get further with Resolve
IMHO Linx version is a very good tool indeed, the Mac version is crippled

I use DS as my finishing tool, and i have had nodes inside the color gui for years now, not looking back at my time on Smoke as a bad thing, but it did feel like i had an arm cut off trying to work with layer based comps, they added a real compositor since then, but only to the real Smoke, the Mac version is still a brick short of a full load, at least one brick...
i can see why you would want to keep AE around if you were chained to a Smack
I keep Nuke on my DS for the same reason ;-)

Oh yea the color tools in DS are far better than the color warper in Smoke.. i grade features in DS without significant pain, and end up with 80% + of the show having nodes by the final pass... nodes rok!

I'm looking at building a Resolve suite even tho it goes against my core ideals of having all tools avb to the artist, the major thing holding me back is doubts about Apple's commitment to the machine underneath the Resolve software

Other systems i am looking at are Pablo PA, Scratch or a third DS (i own two already) - decisions to be made by late summer, i do prefer Resolve, can't see the ROI on the Linux system, can't see the ROI on Smoke ultimate, Mystika, Baselight, Nucoda, full Pablo either

Watching this tread with interest, the majority of my work is shot on RED

d/

The weakness of smoke on the Mac, is the Mac. Batch is not present in Smoke on the Mac. but truly if you know how to use batch you should really be on Smoke Advanced on Linux. There are few Batch effects tossed into Smac.
Smoke has both layer based and complex intuitive nodal effects, and Modules. The layer based timeline effects or soft effects are pretty much the regular effects you find in any NLE. The Desktop action effects module is a timeline multi sequence based nodal compositor.

So yes Smoke has a nodal compositor. :=)

[jake blackstone]

Resolve was defined as a nodal based corrector from the very beginning and this does permit simple 'layer' approach to grading or a far more complex structure, depending on your personal style. I think the ability to select the source for each node, for both the image and key, makes it more flexible than the normal layer approach but doesn't make it too complicated either. For those that like nodes the 'Toggle Display Mode' gives a lot more canvas to work with.

Not to belabor the point, but any modern layer based color grading software has a "switch" on each layer, that allows for a selection of what's is feeding that layer. The choice usually is previous, base and start. I really wasn't complaining about the difference between nodal and layer approach. The difference is academic. I was arguing about the actual visual representation and even more important, flexibility. One of the problems, that I have with a nodal representation is that after using may be 10-12 nodes, it can get difficult to decipher. But even that is not a real problem. Often I find myself in the situation, where I need to copy a portion of a layer. Say, the layer has an HSL key with garbage mask, modified with primary and secondary controls and may have a little NR thrown in for a good measure. What if I want to use the same secondary control, but I don't need the primary, garbage (or a garbage mask, but without the keyframes)and NR. In other grading software I can drill down to that secondary and copy only the modifier or modifiers I need. With Resolve, unless I'm mistaken, you need to copy the whole node and then start deleting the rest. No big deal one may say. it is a big deal, if you must do that on 20 shots at once.

[jake blackstone]

The weakness of smoke on the Mac, is the Mac. Batch is not present in Smoke on the Mac. but truly if you know how to use batch you should really be on Smoke Advanced on Linux. There are few Batch effects tossed into Smac.
Smoke has both layer based and complex intuitive nodal effects, and Modules. The layer based timeline effects or soft effects are pretty much the regular effects you find in any NLE. The Desktop action effects module is a timeline multi sequence based nodal compositor.

So yes Smoke has a nodal compositor. :=)

Throw in the History and you have a nodal compositor on steroids, that makes versioning a snap.

[Peter Chamberlain]

Point well taken Jake.

[Peace Villow]

Nodes can be more powerful in certain implementations, but in the case of Resolve, they only offer serialized and parallel nodes. So it's nothing more than an alternative representation for a layered stack.

Other than serial and parallel nodes there are Layer Mixer node and Key Mixer node in Resolve.
I think everyone will use Layer Mixer node more often for HDRx footage from EPIC.

[Eric Santiago]

Point well taken Jake.
future request? ;)

[richard peterson]

Other than serial and parallel nodes there are Layer Mixer node and Key Mixer node in Resolve.
I think everyone will use Layer Mixer node more often for HDRx footage from EPIC.

I'm new resolve. How dose the layer mixer nodes work with HDRx footage?

[Peter Chamberlain]

If you have HDRx material Resolve will decode both streams. In the node graph, add a layer mixer after node one. Right click on the node graph background and add a source. This will be the short exposure from the HDRx. Connect this source to the input of node 3 (the corrector node that was automatically added when you added the layer mixer)
As node 3 was added after node 1, it has a greater priority in the layer mixer. You output image should now be the same as the short exposure. With node 3 selected, use the Post Mix Gain control on the key tab, set to 50%.
You now have a 50/50 mix between the normal and short exposure, and can adjust this mix and the grades of both inputs as you like.
Resolve processes the images in 32 bit float so the whole HDR is passed through for processing.
Peter

[richard peterson]

thanks Peter ! got it working... I guess the trick is to work the qualifier and window to handle the transition between the two tracks

[Peter Chamberlain]

You can use dynamics too to have that transition over time.
Peter

[Tehben Dean]

Just noticed on the Black Magic website that the Lite version is available. I cannot figure out how do I get it? Is it available for download?

[jimhare]

They have listed the free version there for a couple of months, is this what you are looking at or did you specifically see a press release or something? I've been waiting anxiously but from what I can see it still isn't available.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/davinciresolve/models/

[Tehben Dean]

Front page, second slide says "Davinci Resolve Lite is available free" http://www.blackmagic-design.com/?heroNum=2

EDIT: I guess it doesn't say "now" so that may be the case. I am sure I will get the full version but would love to try the lite version now!

[Peter Chamberlain]

Resolve Lite will be available for download from our web site a little later this month and we will post a press release and twitter when its up.
Peter

[jimhare]

Yeah, that's the NAB announcement that has been there since April. Looking forward to it coming out later this month. Great idea as they will sell thousands of the full version when they try it.

As for me, I just want to make sure it works on my system before committing.


Front page, second slide says "Davinci Resolve Lite is available free" http://www.blackmagic-design.com/?heroNum=2

EDIT: I guess it doesn't say "now" so that may be the case. I am sure I will get the full version but would love to try the lite version now!

[Eric Santiago]

Im new to Resolve and im stumped with a display issues.
Currently running a Quadro 4000 as a display (I know, I know) and have it set to my Apple 30s 2560x1600.
I guess Resolve doesnt support this.
Any work arounds?
I do have dual 27' Dells on my Maya system, I guess I can move the Reslolve Mac to that.

Edit: strange, I resized the displays to 1920x1440 then it worked. then I reset it back up and now it works on higher res?

[Christoffer Glans]

Will it be available for windows any time in the future? For me the more interesting question is: will the lite version be avalible on windows anytime soon?
I'm really looking into building my own super system for Avid/Resolve/Premiere/After effects work and I just don't feel Apple will be able to give me the powerful hardware options I need for it.

[M Most]

Will it be available for windows any time in the future? For me the more interesting question is: will the lite version be avalible on windows anytime soon?
I'm really looking into building my own super system for Avid/Resolve/Premiere/After effects work and I just don't feel Apple will be able to give me the powerful hardware options I need for it.

For the foreseeable future, the answer to that has been and remains no. To either the real one, or the free one.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Im new to Resolve and im stumped with a display issues.
Currently running a Quadro 4000 as a display (I know, I know) and have it set to my Apple 30s 2560x1600.
I guess Resolve doesnt support this.

not sure what the issue might have been... Do you have any other video card in the system... Might have been a GPU or CUDA thing or confusion, if the Quadro is your only card.

[Bruce Allen]

Will it be available for windows any time in the future? For me the more interesting question is: will the lite version be avalible on windows anytime soon?
I'm really looking into building my own super system for Avid/Resolve/Premiere/After effects work and I just don't feel Apple will be able to give me the powerful hardware options I need for it.

Christoffer, I bet you a beer that IF Apple really decides to neuter Mac Pros, Blackmagic will make a Windows version of Resolve.

I'll also bet you another beer that Apple will NOT neuter Mac Pros for at least the next year or two.

So why not just get a Mac for now? If / when Apple abandons pros in their hardware, you can always move to Windows in the future and I'm sure Resolve will too?

I say this as a guy who has owned way more PCs than Macs and is planning on getting a Mac Pro primarily for Resolve!

Bruce Allen
www.boaicnema.com

[Eric Santiago]

Is there an official note stating that Resolve 8 can be installed on OS 10.6.8?
I have it running on 10.6.7 Mac Pro 12 core Quadro4000 (display and CUDA) but found a few bugs.
Crashed it a few times last Friday.