New PL Mount Finished

[John Allardice]

Jim announced on CML this afternoon that the new adjustable PL mount is now finished.

...any word here?....Jim?

[Jannard]

The design is finalized. It is rock solid and cool as hell... it will make people embarrassed for ever using shims in lens mounts.

Jim

[Mark L. Pederson]

The design is finalized. It is rock solid and cool as hell... it will make people embarrassed for ever using shims in lens mounts.

Jim

Fantastic Jim!

Now ... if we could only get a RED Collimation Tool ...?

[Rick Darge]

YES YES YES !

Let the floodgates open!

Did Jarred do his torture test yet?

I can't wait for a Red New Year.

[Jarred Land]

YES YES YES !

Let the floodgates open!

Did Jarred do his torture test yet?

I can't wait for a Red New Year.

Yes indeed... Its badass. I cant believe how strong it is... i couldn't break it.

[Shawn Nelson]

Yeah!! Gosh I was hoping you guys would solve this problem for good. Congrats!

[Dalibor Fencl]

Congratulation guys!

Any delivery schedules now? I guess many are really eager to know.

[Greg M]

Yes indeed... Its badass. I cant believe how strong it is... i couldn't break it.
pussy

DISCLAIMER: I can get away with that because i'm 1400 miles away, and wont be in ca anytime soon

[Tonaci Tran]

Although I got to share in the birth of #19, my girlfriend and I are ready to have one of our own. Patiently waiting for #102 to be born =).

[Brent@RED]

You guys are going to be so stoked on this new mount. Shims can join film on the next bus out of town.

[Jarred Land]

#102 is looking pretty damn impressive.... I dont know if I should tell you if its a boy or girl yet..

[Dominic Jones]

pussy
Lol, great answer!!!

[Evin Grant]

I can't frikken wait, finally something Jarred can't break!

[Joe Vinson]

Great news! Will this have any effect on the Nikon or other mounts? I was hoping it might make them more easily interchangeable (for those of us who might have one or two cine lenses but mostly SLR glass).

[Dominic Jones]

#102 is looking pretty damn impressive.... I dont know if I should tell you if its a boy or girl yet..
Remind me of a great joke I heard recently (WARNING - MEGA OT!):

Sort-of is one of those phrases that generally doesn't mean anything, but sometimes it means everything- like when it follows the phrase "It's a boy..."!

[Gian Joon]

Cheers Guys. We can feel the heat in New Zealand.

#101 just skipped a heart beat. Haha............Ha.

Wait is going to be over. Don't worry mate.

[Gian Joon]

Did I hear someone say....Wait is over.

[Tonaci Tran]

#102 is looking pretty damn impressive.... I dont know if I should tell you if its a boy or girl yet..

Thanks for the update. That sonogram you sent me.. its still hard to tell. =P

http://tonaci.com/102.jpg

[Brook Willard]

Extra awesome points for Tonaci today. :)

[Rick Darge]

God, that's sick..

[RivaiC]

genious and crazy to be said are just neighborhood. :shiftyph34r:

I don't see anything sticking out. Must be a girl

[Dalibor Fencl]

Funy, funy, funy.

[Steve Sherrick]

Awesome news guys. Can't wait to get this thing in my hands. If Jarred can't break it, I don't think I'll be able to. He looks a hell of a lot stronger than I am.

Steve

[Jeff Kilgroe]

http://tonaci.com/102.jpg

Damn... That's going to hurt coming out.

[Eryc Tramonn]

http://tonaci.com/102.jpg

Damn... That's going to hurt coming out.

Hell, it must have hurt going in.

[Tonaci Tran]

Haven't you all heard of c-sections? tmi. sorry. hehe

[Mike Prevette]

oh thats gunna hurt.

[SF Geek]

Soooooo. Does that mean that the engineering delay is over? What about the new board?

[IAN SUN]

Hell, it must have hurt going in.

Now, that's funny!

[Deanan]

It's also the sexiest mount around.

[Laco Zamba]

Photo, please :-)

[Arnaud Paris]

Did you fix at the same time the 45 degree missing edge?

Indeed there was an issue with the Red not being compatible with many PL mount adapters, for more info see this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6101

To summarize it had to do with the fact that the throad of regular PL cameras is shaved off 45 degrees where the throad of the Red PL mount is straight. The Red team said they were going to address this point so I'm crossing my fingers for this new mount being the salvation.

Arnaud

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

This thread is really crazy :).

With the EVF in mind, the child will have a selectable boy\girl status.

[Paul Hazlett]

The design is finalized. It is rock solid and cool as hell... it will make people embarrassed for ever using shims in lens mounts.

Jim

As long as I have been watching these boards that has to be the funniest
post I have seen from you Mr. Jannard.

Hang your heads in shame people...and weep for the lowly shim

[jaadgy akanni]

Does this mean the sandman will no longer be torturing me with the word "collimation!" in my nightmares?

[Cail Young]

Remind me of a great joke I heard recently (WARNING - MEGA OT!):

Sort-of is one of those phrases that generally doesn't mean anything, but sometimes it means everything- like when it follows the phrase "It's a boy..."!

The origin... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOkgk9UAQCE)

[Sergi O Maudet]

So, now that the lens mount is OK. Is there any news about the shipping schedule?
I haven't read anything about the daughter board.

[Brent J. Craig]

I just hope the 'adjustable' PL mount hasn't introduced the whole range of backfocus nightmares we deal with on 3-chip video cameras. I would rather have a lens mount that is properly collimated by the rental house and stays that way for the entire shoot. Adjustments are bad.

[Jim Exton]

I just hope the 'adjustable' PL mount hasn't introduced the whole range of backfocus nightmares we deal with on 3-chip video cameras. I would rather have a lens mount that is properly collimated by the rental house and stays that way for the entire shoot. Adjustments are bad.

Completely agree.

[Paul Hazlett]

pussy

DISCLAIMER: I can get away with that because i'm 1400 miles away, and wont be in ca anytime soon

it not like Jarred has access to your address or anything either....

[Blair S. Paulsen]

1) Relax. I am pretty sure the Red Team has created a mount that can go for extended periods without adjustment. The cool thing is that when the occasional adjustment is required the process sounds much easier. Obviously we won't know exactly how things will go until the new mounts are out in the field for awhile, but, I am hopeful that full calibration will be a once a year event.

2) Give these guys some credit. While some of their attempts to build a better mousetrap have not worked out as well as hoped for, I have been impressed with their willingness to acknowledge the faults and make things right. Those of you getting cameras 101 on will benefit from multiple improvements.

[Jaime Vallés]

This sounds great! I look forward to the improved design. Any idea if it will make changing mounts (from PL to Birger EOS) a little easier?

Thanks for the effort, team Red!

[chuck colburn]

So if it needs to be made adjustable I take it that means so it will work (collimate) on any given camera. Which also means then any other mount (Nikon etc.) also needs to be adjustable to work on any given camera. So it's kinda back where it started except for the fact that it might be more stout and more accuret in the sense that the locking ear problem has been resolved. Once again not a truly interchangeable mount system. Unless I'm missing something here.

[jbeale]

So if it needs to be made adjustable I take it that means so it will work (collimate) on any given camera. Which also means then any other mount (Nikon etc.) also needs to be adjustable to work on any given camera. So it's kinda back where it started except for the fact that it might be more stout and more accuret in the sense that the locking ear problem has been resolved. Once again not a truly interchangeable mount system. Unless I'm missing something here.

Just for reference, is there any lens mount that works with all lenses and never needs adjustment?

[Stephen Williams]

Just for reference, is there any lens mount that works with all lenses and never needs adjustment?

Hi,

I have known PL mounted cameras that did not need to be adjusted over 10 years.

There may well be an opportunity for a 3rd party hard mount that cant be adjusted. Rather useful on a rental camera I think.

Out of interest can the mount be adjusted top to bottom & left to fight or just in 1 plane?

Stephen

[chuck colburn]

Most cameras do not have interchangable lens mounts. Those cameras are built to accept a given type of lens mount and is made so that it is spot on. So if there is a back focus problem it is within the lens itself. With a camera that has interchangable mounts you either make the camera front to a given depth so that it will accept different mounts that are made to a specific length to allow swapping out without back focus issues or you make the mounts adjustable to accomadate differences in individual camera bodies.

[Stephen Williams]

Most cameras do not have interchangable lens mounts. Those cameras are built to accept a given type of lens mount and is made so that it is spot on. So if there is a back focus problem it is within the lens itself. With a camera that has interchangable mounts you either make the camera front to a given depth so that it will accept different mounts that are made to a specific length to allow swapping out without back focus issues or you make the mounts adjustable to accomadate differences in individual camera bodies.

Hi Chuck,

Red only ships with PL mounts, the others are not available yet so I don't understand what the problem is with a mount that is shimmed.

Stephen

[chuck colburn]

Hi Chuck,

Red only ships with PL mounts, the others are not available yet so I don't understand what the problem is with a mount that is shimmed.

Stephen

Stephen,

I'm not saying there is a problem with using shims on an individual mount, what I am saying is, if you have to adjust (collimate) a particular mount to a particular camera then in all likelyhood it is not going to be interchangable on a different camera body without adjusting it to that camera body. Or to put it another way you can't do what Eclair did on the ACL.
See below...


http://cgi.ebay.com/Eclair-ACL-adapter-PL-mount-lens-ARRI-Arriflex_W0QQitemZ150185296238QQihZ005QQcategoryZ4 691QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Let me just add this, I don't know what RED has done with their new mounting system. For all I know they could have gone to a zeroed out front camera body system and they are making the PL mount adjustable to correct for slight errors in the manufacturing of the mount itself. Although I see no reason to do such. But as I say I don't know.

[Billy Summers]

It's also the sexiest mount around.

And Adjustable!

For all RED user's different sizes!

[Stephen Williams]

Stephen,

I'm not saying there is a problem with using shims on an individual mount, what I am saying is, if you have to adjust (collimate) a particular mount to a particular camera then in all likelyhood it is not going to be interchangable on a different camera body without adjusting it to that camera body. Or to put it another way you can't do what Eclair did on the ACL.
See below...


http://cgi.ebay.com/Eclair-ACL-adapter-PL-mount-lens-ARRI-Arriflex_W0QQitemZ150185296238QQihZ005QQcategoryZ4 691QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hi Chuck,

I think you misunderstood me, there must have been some problem with the original mount or there would not be a 'new improved adjustable version'.
Unless of course the mount needs to be adjusted throughout the day like many HD Video cameras.

Stephen

[chuck colburn]

Hi Chuck,

I think you misunderstood me, there must have been some problem with the original mount or there would not be a 'new improved adjustable version'.
Unless of course the mount needs to be adjusted throughout the day like many HD Video cameras.

Stephen

Ahhh that might be it. I did not know that video cameras do not maintain a consistent backfocus as they are used. I still think the adustability of the lens mount is to compensate for manufacturing variances of the camera body. But as I said above, I don't know this for a fact.

[Stephen Williams]

Ahhh that might be it. I did not know that video cameras do not maintain a consistent backfocus as they are used. I still think the adustability of the lens mount is to compensate for manufacturing variances of the camera body. But as I said above, I don't know this for a fact.

Hi Chuck,

I find with many HD Video cameras, as they heat up the back focus changes. It's very important to keep checking throughout the day.

Stephen

[chuck colburn]

Hi Chuck,

I find with many HD Video cameras, as they heat up the back focus changes. It's very important to keep checking throughout the day.

Stephen

Then an adjustable mount with a fine pitch adjustment and a secure locking mechanisim might be just the ticket. Keep those test charts nearby. lol
Better yet buy a collimator.

[Jannard]

1st AC on Soderbergh's movies set back focus before the shoot began and checked back focus every day on both cameras and never had to change it.

BUT... it does take a long time to shim at the factory before it leaves. And if there are problems (for whatever reason), it takes a trained professional to bring a mount back in. Back focus can move on any camera. That is why it is checked at every rental house before it goes out the door. Our new mount just takes the pain out of the process in the event it needs to be adjusted.

Jim

[Rob Lohman]

This thing is bad ass...

[Antoine Fabi]

Jim,

Now the new mount is ready, what are the realistic release dates for Nikon and Canon mounts ?

thanks

[chuck colburn]

This thing is bad ass...

Rob,

Got any photos of it? Front, rear and in pieces would be nice. lol

[Damien Molineaux]

1st AC on Soderbergh's movies set back focus before the shoot began and checked back focus every day on both cameras and never had to change it.

BUT... it does take a long time to shim at the factory before it leaves. And if there are problems (for whatever reason), it takes a trained professional to bring a mount back in. Back focus can move on any camera. That is why it is checked at every rental house before it goes out the door. Our new mount just takes the pain out of the process in the event it needs to be adjusted.

Jim

nice to hear


This thing is bad ass...

ok... you guys just love to tease us, don't you !

Anyhow, it all sounds great. I hope it lives up to the reputation you're giving it and that it hasn't delayed deliveries too much, any chance for an update?

Thanks for your hard work Red team.

Cheers,
Damien

[chuck colburn]

Does the body have to be modified to accept the new mount?

[Mitch Gross]

1st AC on Soderbergh's movies set back focus before the shoot began and checked back focus every day on both cameras and never had to change it.

BUT... it does take a long time to shim at the factory before it leaves. And if there are problems (for whatever reason), it takes a trained professional to bring a mount back in. Back focus can move on any camera. That is why it is checked at every rental house before it goes out the door. Our new mount just takes the pain out of the process in the event it needs to be adjusted.

Jim

So Red is still considering this an "in shop" operation as opposed to an "in field" operation? I think that is an EXCELLENT thing. Users adjusting the mounts in the field with no really way of measuring the effect will result in a lot of out of focus imagery. Better to set it before the job and check periodically in a proper environment. That it is quicker and easier to do now is a lovely thing. We deal with shims every day, and anything to speed up the process is always welcome. But it has to be precise and locking. Very interested to see the design.

Mitch Gross
Abel Cine Tech

[number6]

This whole RED camera thing is becoming more and more Number 6 proof every day!

[grandpa it burns]

Hi Red team!!!! How much heavier is the mount? Every once counts for me.

[Craig Bowman]

Note: Cross further camera delays off list.

So about those evfs, and red drives and 50-150mm zooms...

[redicule]

You guys are going to be so stoked on this new mount. Shims can join film on the next bus out of town.

Oh yes I agree. All those crazy film snobs and their dang annoying shims that work so well (and have done for such a long time) with all of those pesky lenses that we want to put on our red cameras, to try and get a filmic look, can just get out of here. Look, see them leaving in a cloud of dust!!!

[Christian Edwards]

Oh yes I agree. All those crazy film snobs and their dang annoying shims that work so well (and have done for such a long time) with all of those pesky lenses that we want to put on our red cameras, to try and get a filmic look, can just get out of here. Look, see them leaving in a cloud of dust!!!

oh shit! someone dropped a cat amongst the pigeons

[Ethan Cooper]

Oh yes I agree. All those crazy film snobs and their dang annoying shims that work so well (and have done for such a long time) with all of those pesky lenses that we want to put on our red cameras, to try and get a filmic look, can just get out of here. Look, see them leaving in a cloud of dust!!!

And what if Red has stumbled upon a new and better way with their new mount? Nothing good could possibly ever come from change. How dare Red or anyone develop a new way or simplify an existing technique? You've opened my eyes to the virtues of sticking to tradition for tradition's sake.
________
Iolite vaporizer review (http://vaporizers.net/iolite-vaporizer)

[R. Gonzales]

Ah yes redicule, Keep on poking that pot you might find someone who might give you the reaction your looking for.:devil:

Method :biggrin:

[Eryc Tramonn]

Oh yes I agree. All those crazy film snobs and their dang annoying shims that work so well (and have done for such a long time) with all of those pesky lenses that we want to put on our red cameras, to try and get a filmic look, can just get out of here. Look, see them leaving in a cloud of dust!!!

It was funny to me...and the other poster had it coming just as much; basically begging for a smart ass response by spewing rhetoric, and insinuating film is passe and outmoded. And no need to flame me..."well it is." Sure...maybe it is...maybe it isn't. Yet, as Redicule put it, what is everyone dying to emulate?

Take it as levity. It's okay. RED One is good. Redicule is good (though in a stir-the-pot kind of way). Jim is good. The world is good. There's goodness drippin from our collective booty cheeks. Goodness. Nothing but goodness. Neverending...flowing goodness.

[JustinGD]

Can nobody get excited any more?

"Hey I got a new big screen LCD TV, it's great, my old tv made the players look like ants! want to come watch the game?"

"That old tv worked for 15 years, and LCD's have refresh rate problems. I want a perfectly logical description of your new TV, not exagerated one liners. Show me a powerpoint presentation discribing the pros and cons of both your old TV and your new TV, and maybe I'll watch it"

I LOVE people like that. Don't you?

[Michael Schrengohst]

Most of the producers I work with are still poo-pooing HD.
They love the old BetaSP. The last three shoots I was
on only wanted DV. It's hard to give up the ghost sometimes.

[redicule]

And what if Red has stumbled upon a new and better way with their new mount? Nothing good could possibly ever come from change. How dare Red or anyone develop a new way or simplify an existing technique? You've opened my eyes to the virtues of sticking to tradition for tradition's sake.

I think you kind of missed the point. I'm not saying this. If it works, great, & I hope it does. It's just reading this thread you would think someone had come up with a solution to global warming, not a fix to something that shouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

No disrespect to Red but at this stage this is not yet a field proven product. I'm sure they have testing it, but wouldn't they have done that with the first lens mount before it came out as well? Unfortunately that experienced a few (presumably) unforseen problems.

Also note that the mount was only anounced as finished in the last day or so and already production has started. Does finished mean "design completed, production started", or "design completed and a significant period of testing in the field with multiple camera bodies, as many lenses as possible with as many different brand mounts & mount adapters in as many differerent climatic situations as possible, tests passed, production started"??

It was really the line:

"Shims can join film on the next bus out of town"

that got a giggle out of me. There have been a lot of other posts re: film to the same effect. People have been saying that for years, but guess what.....not true.

I can remember back around 1999-2000 (?) when Sony did a demo day in London with their then new & revolutionary Cinealta HD camcorder that I went to. We were given a brochure that proudly stated that:

"as digibeta heralded the end for 16mm production, so too will the cinealtaHD bring and end to 35mm production"

I only wished I had kept that!!!

[Obin Olson]

This thing is bad ass...

How about some pics?

[Michael Hastings]

I think you kind of missed the point. I'm not saying this. If it works, great, & I hope it does. It's just reading this thread you would think someone had come up with a solution to global warming,

That was scheduled for January but is currently on production hold...

[Eryc Tramonn]

I think you kind of missed the point. I'm not saying this. If it works, great, & I hope it does. It's just reading this thread you would think someone had come up with a solution to global warming, not a fix to something that shouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

No disrespect to Red but at this stage this is not yet a field proven product. I'm sure they have testing it, but wouldn't they have done that with the first lens mount before it came out as well? Unfortunately that experienced a few (presumably) unforseen problems.

Also note that the mount was only anounced as finished in the last day or so and already production has started. Does finished mean "design completed, production started", or "design completed and a significant period of testing in the field with multiple camera bodies, as many lenses as possible with as many different brand mounts & mount adapters in as many differerent climatic situations as possible, tests passed, production started"??

It was really the line:

"Shims can join film on the next bus out of town"

that got a giggle out of me. There have been a lot of other posts re: film to the same effect. People have been saying that for years, but guess what.....not true.

I can remember back around 1999-2000 (?) when Sony did a demo day in London with their then new & revolutionary Cinealta HD camcorder that I went to. We were given a brochure that proudly stated that:

"as digibeta heralded the end for 16mm production, so too will the cinealtaHD bring and end to 35mm production"

I only wished I had kept that!!!

Dude, you're far too analytical and shrewd to be a popular poster for many on this board. I love it! Great post. I believe in covering things from both angles and asking the hard questions people don't seem to have an interest in answering here. Maybe it's just a, it's-none-of-your-business, we-share-enough-with-you attitude. I don't know, but I have noticed some questions will just not garner an answer. Which at times makes me feel the same elitist attitude this technology was born to defeat, has infected it and the community surrounding it...to a degree.

Now, that's not a complete diss...obviously this is also one of the most helpful AND INTELLIGENT filmmaking communities on the Net as well. The RedUser forum is one HELL of a knowlegdebase.

[Blue]

Anyway, looking forward to the pictures when they arrive. But no rush lads just when you're ready.