MetaCheater Utility

[Jabez Olssen]

Hi Everybody

So one of the problems at the moment editing Red footage in the Avid is that the Avid can't read timecode embedded in Quicktimes.

So here is a utility to read the timecode from a bunch of quicktimes, then create an Avid ALE file which can be imported into the Avid. This creates offline clips representing each quicktime (including their timecode etc). You can then batch import the clips, pointing them at the quicktimes.

So this is a method of getting metadata into the Avid from quicktimes.

At them moment it only works with Quicktimes made through RedAlert, not RedCine, because RedCine does not pass the timecode through to the Quicktimes it exports.

Also it is a Mac Avid only solution, because the Red Quicktime component is Mac only.

This really is only intended for an offline/online workflow. But if you are planning to directly edit your final 'online' pictures, then I guess you don't really need timecode anyway.

As quicktimes are generated from RedAlert almost instantaneously, the time taken to get the files into the Avid is limited to the time it takes to import the Quicktimes. On a MacBook Pro Media Composer it takes roughly 6 times real time to import the files into DnxHD 36. Of course this would be quicker on a desktop Mac Pro, and on a big project you could always have several import stations running.

Anyway the utility, MetaCheater [now v1.4], can be found at:
http://www.staticpictures.com/metacheater

There are bound to be issues. Feel free to post bug reports/feature suggestions here but I can't promise to get to them. I'm not a coder, this is just a hack.

enjoy

cheers

-Jabez Olssen

emails to metacheater[at]staticpictures.com maybe responded to :)

----------------

[UPDATE: NEW VERSION - v1.4]

http://www.staticpictures.com/metacheater


Fixed in 1.4:
A bug where MetaCheater would treat Quicktimes running at 29.97fps as if they were running at 24fps.


New Feature in v1.3
MetaCheater now contains a 'Camroll' field. Camroll can be used as a tape source in an Avid EDL. In the RED options you can now have both the R3D's Reel name (ie A001) AND the full filename (ie A001_C001_080402) in the ALE in columns that will be able to be used as EDL source tapes. So you can decide later what sort of EDL you want to make - one that just refers to the Reel name, or one that refers to the full filename. (note: you have to download the special RED16 EDL template from the metacheater website if you want to make EDLs that use the full filename).
There is also now a setting for how the PAL 24 to 25 TC adjust button operates. And a bug was fixed in regards to this feature.

New Features in v1.1
'Avid SD Timecode Adjust' feature. This feature is for Standard Def Avid film projects, in other words projects that are running at 24fps but whose timecode is running at 25 or 29.97fps. If you are in an NTSC film project click 'NTSC' and the timecodes are altered to fit the 2:3 pulldown pattern. Click 'PAL' to adjust the End Timecode, making it reflect what it would be if the timecode was running at 25fps.

Will now remove the new "_F" and "_NA" RedAlert suffixes.

PayPal Donations now possible :)


[UPDATE: NEW VERSION - v1.0]

The ability to add prefixes and suffixes to some columns.
Total duration of all Quicktimes shown in Frames and Timecode (Timecode only accurate if all Quicktimes have the same fps)

The ability to use the filename as the tape name, for easier conforming. (This feature uses the first three sections of the r3d file's filename (ie Reel, Clip and Date) and limits it to 16 characters in order to work with a new Avid EDL template)

'Comment' column changed to 'Comments' in order to show up automatically when imported into Avid.

[UPDATE: NEW VERSION - v0.9]

New Features in v0.9:

The ability to Find and Replace in some columns

A setting to choose between having a VFX column or a DPX column, both work the same way in the Avid.

A setting to choose whether the VFX/DPX count starts at frame 1 or frame 0. It now defaults to 0.

Two new features for RED workflows only:
The first removes the "_H", "_M" or "_P" suffixes that RedAlert adds from the filename and VFX/DPX columns, so that the filename is the same as the r3d file. This is to make conform tracking easier.
The second feature adds the Shoot Date part of the filename to the Tape column to make the Source/Timecode combination more unique.


Bug fix: if you have the VFX/DPX option to 'Convert TC' chosen then it does so when you import the QTs.

[Terry Wester]

Wow that was quick thanks Jabez! Did you write this?

[Jabez Olssen]

Yup, I haven't done a lot of bug testing yet though :)


Wow that was quick thanks Jabez! Did you write this?

[Columbus]

Tested it on a mac book pro, works perfectly, it is very quick to import 14:1 pal for an offline. Brilliant well done.

[Terry Wester]

Ok, just tried out the windows version. It seems to work fine, even with no red quicktime codec. It did crash a few time when I was trying to load more than one clip, but not every time. I tried the Mac version as well, and it seems to work fine.

One feature request I have would be a way remove the _H,_M,_P from the file name of the clip. I was linking back to Avid DV codec footage, exported from Red Cine, it had the original file names of the clips. So I had to relink each clip one at a time.

Great work, and thanks for sharing :biggrin:

[Rob Lohman]

Thanks Jabez, good to see you hanging around!

[Deanan]

Way cool!

[Anders Holck]

Excellent Idea and execution.

[Seth Larney]

Ok, just tried out the windows version. It seems to work fine, even with no red quicktime codec. It did crash a few time when I was trying to load more than one clip, but not every time. I tried the Mac version as well, and it seems to work fine.

One feature request I have would be a way remove the _H,_M,_P from the file name of the clip. I was linking back to Avid DV codec footage, exported from Red Cine, it had the original file names of the clips. So I had to relink each clip one at a time.

Great work, and thanks for sharing :biggrin:

Hi tab32,

Could you please confirm that this worked on the PC version of AVID ? I was under the understanding that the Red QT component was required, which is mac only ?

/confused ..

Thanks,
Seth.

[MichaelP]

Only RedAlert! is putting the source TC into the QT file. RedAlert! only works on Mac. The RED QT codec component is only avaialble for Mac.

MetaCheater runs on either Mac or PC.

[Terry Wester]

Hi tab32,

Could you please confirm that this worked on the PC version of AVID ? I was under the understanding that the Red QT component was required, which is mac only ?

/confused ..

Thanks,
Seth.

Yes It will, you can not see the pointer files in quicktime, but MetaCheater will read the time code and reel names on a pc for the pointer files.

1. Using the pc version of red cine output quicktimes that avid can read, I used the Avid NTSC DV codec.

2. Then create your ALE file with MetaCheater

3. Load the ALE into the avid

4. Link your media to the Red Cine output files.

The only gotcha I found was if the quicktime proxys are older, they might not have the reel numbers. You can recreate form Red Alert and all is well, but you need a mac for that of course.

-- Terry

[Terry Wester]

Only RedAlert! is putting the source TC into the QT file. RedAlert! only works on Mac. The RED QT codec component is only avaialble for Mac.

MetaCheater runs on either Mac or PC.

Michael,

I don't have access to a camera right now. Do you know if the quicktime pointer files produced by the camera have proper time code and reel names in them that MetaCheater can read?

Thanks

-- Terry

[MichaelP]

Well...... it has the proper source timecode (time of day...) but it is open to debate what should/could be considered the REEL ID to make it unique. Currently it is using the "Axx" portion of the filename as the Tape name. I don't believe that over the course of a multi-day shoot this will hold up as being unique.

But... Jabez very nicely allows for the user to override the Tape ID in the Metacheater application by whatever you want to call it. So that will help create a unique ID on a daily basis. Then the application does allow the full filename to be tracked as frames as in <filename>-<000000> where <000000> is a total frame count which can be tracked in Avid.

Michael

[M Most]

Well...... it has the proper source timecode (time of day...) but it is open to debate what should/could be considered the REEL ID to make it unique. Currently it is using the "Axx" portion of the filename as the Tape name. I don't believe that over the course of a multi-day shoot this will hold up as being unique.

Well, until you hit 999 rolls from either the A or B camera, I don't see how this is any different than the film roll ID's we've been using for years (or at least those of us who have shot film for years). The camera dept. has to do its job and enter these numbers correctly, however.

If you're doing a conform you really don't want to be changing those numbers, because they will no longer match those in the r3d file - thus causing problems for anyone going back to those files for either new exports or direct usage (say, a conform in Scratch, which will read them directly from the R3d file). Right now, I don't know of any available tools for editing that information in the R3d files themselves. But as with all things Red, that could change at any time (and, at least in this case, I hope it does - it's a bit dangerous to only be able to create information once, and even more dangerous if the only time to do it is during production).

[Brenton]

You are a beautiful, beautiful man!!

I had an instant NerdGasm when it produced that ALE :w00t:

Now to complete my rapturous experience is to load this in Avid and see the media playing :)

You have made my day!

Ciao for now

B

[MichaelP]

I have no issue with the number of alphanumeric characters, I am questioning the uniqueness of the ID over multiple days and cameras as being ID'd in the QuickTime file from the RedAlert! export. Having the ability to change it to something more valid and unique in MetaCheater might be something to explore.

Michael

[M Most]

I have no issue with the number of alphanumeric characters, I am questioning the uniqueness of the ID over multiple days and cameras as being ID'd in the QuickTime file from the RedAlert! export. Having the ability to change it to something more valid and unique in MetaCheater might be something to explore.


I guess I'm missing your point here. On all productions that I've ever worked on - and, granted, I'm a product of the "Hollywood" system - camera rolls are numbered from 1 to whatever over the length of the production. So on day 1, you'd start out with A1 for the "A" camera and B1 for the "B" camera, and by day 30, you might be up to A300 and B300. But you don't start from 1 each shoot day, you consecutively number through the length of the production. So unless the script supervisor - or the AC's - make a mistake, every roll has a unique identifier. Now, it is also true that in film, you also have the shoot date as a secondary identifier, but with files, you have that as well (file creation date). And, as I mentioned, unless and until the metadata in the R3d files can be edited, it could be very counterproductive to alter those reel numbers down the post chain.

Oh, and by the way: this utility works superbly. I now feel we (as a facility) can support cutting Red productions on Avid with a very solid workflow. Thanks to all.

[MichaelP]

All I am saying is that if the default TAPE ID from RedAlert! is A001 as extracted from MetaCheater from the same camera on day one, day two, day three, etc. there will be no unique identification for file name to timecode. I don't see Creation date coming through in MetaCheater - it would need to grab that from the properties of the file as it may not persist into the metadata of the QT file itself. If it did, Shoot Date and camera ID could be concatenate to create a unique SourceID within Avid. There is also the small issue that RedAlert! adds a quality tag such as _m to the end of the file so there is not a direct one to one relationship to the original file. That needs to be taken care of either in MetaCheater or RedAlert! exporting out without the appended quality tag. If it needs to do so, perhaps putting them all into a directory of the quality first, then preserving the original file name in the .mov file.

I agree with what you are saying since a human managing the daily count of reel ID's and tape names manages how the structure of naming schema will work. Such as 01001 is Tape 001 of episode 01 of a season series. One could go oven farther and define it as 0101001 as Season 01, Episode 01, Tape 001.

I don't have access to a lot of R3D files, so this may be a moot point, but I would like to see two files from two different days shot at the same time of day exported out of RedAlert! to see what the default source ID that is listed in the MetaCheater application. My concern is the default name of the truncated source name as it stands right now. I have created a special EDL format that allows for 16 characters in the source to track longer source file names for file based workflows so the uniqueness of the file name can also be tracked as source ID in an EDL. The issue of course is the file name can be fragile should it get changed in the process - not so much an issue in Avid since we abstract file name from source name so the editor can give it a more useful name like 1/1 for Scene 1 Take 1, and still maintain the original source file name and count as frame counts with <SourceFileName>-<frames>.

We also agree that there is a lot more metadata available in the file that is not being exported out in either RedAlert! or RedCine. It's a matter of getting access to that in an easier way. And lets not forget that this is a Mac only solution from RedAlert!

MetaCheater is a great utility and will find its way into many other workflows than just RED.

Michael

[MichaelP]

Brain lapse... this can be done in MetaCheater (Sorry Jabez... more feature requests) as the shoot date in in the file name and it would need to be parsed within MetaCheater and allowed to become part of the TAPEID as a default way to allow for source ID to be generated. The metadata can then be tracked in their own columns if needed within editorial. An additional metadata tag would/could be generated to associate dailies with a particular feature, program, episode, ad campaign, etc.

Speaking of additional metadata, we could also track whatever color changes were done to the baked in look of the export from either RedAlert! or RedCine and pass those back as part of the conform process... again, need that richer metadata export...

Michael

[Anthony Gratl]

I nominate Cogito as Reduser of the week for this! thanks man.

[Nils Ruinet]

Thank you so much Jabez,
this is awsome !
Now at least we have a possible workflow with Avid.

This post definatly needs to become a sticky !!

[Seth Larney]

This post definatly needs to become a sticky !!

I agree, this is a big deal .. the first AVID workflow !

Thanks Jabez :) You've really saved the day here.

[Brenton]

FYI, using a little tool called Sebsky Tools you can convert ALE>FCP batch list & FCP>ALE.

I've found the easiest way to get Tape/Reel Id into FCP is by using MetaCheater to make the ALE and converting to FCP batch list through Sebsky Tools.

Just in case you or your facility have both.

:biggrin: B

[Codec Moment]

Someone pointed me to this thing too:
http://www.dharmafilm.com/sebskytools/

It seems to do the same kind of thing, but was designed more for allowing Avid and FCP to interact better. Haven't tried it yet.

[Jabez Olssen]

Ok, I have a new version of MetaCheater, v0.9

The link is in the edited original post of this thread.

Oh yeah, and this version has not been tested very much... so let me know if anything is not working

cheers

-Jabez

--------------------

New Features in v0.9:

The ability to Find and Replace in some columns

A setting to choose between having a VFX column or a DPX column, both work the same way in the Avid.

A setting to choose whether the VFX/DPX count starts at frame 1 or frame 0. It now defaults to 0.

Two new features for RED workflows only:
The first removes the "_H", "_M" or "P" suffixes that RedAlert adds from the filename and VFX/DPX columns, so that the filename is the same as the r3d file. This is to make conform tracking easier.
The second feature adds the Shoot Date part of the filename to the Tape column to make the Source/Timecode combination more unique.


Bug fix: if you have the VFX/DPX option to 'Convert TC' chosen then it does so when you import the QTs.

[M Most]

The first removes the "_H", "_M" or "P" suffixes that RedAlert adds from the filename and VFX/DPX columns, so that the filename is the same as the r3d file. This is to make conform tracking easier.

While that makes sense, unless you also remove those suffixes on the original file, it probably breaks the ability to do a batch import by identifying only one of the files in the list. Am I wrong about that?



The second feature adds the Shoot Date part of the filename to the Tape column to make the Source/Timecode combination more unique.


I hope that's user selectable. As I said to Michael P, some conforming systems (well, Scratch in particular) read the R3d files directly and rely on the tape ID in the EDL being the same as the tape ID in the file. Using standard naming conventions, the names are already unique if the production is done by a professional crew. For others, this feature might be very useful. For some, it renders the EDL unusable.

[Terry Wester]

While that makes sense, unless you also remove those suffixes on the original file, it probably breaks the ability to do a batch import by identifying only one of the files in the list. Am I wrong about that?



I asked for this feature, so I could batch import files I saved out of Redcine with the exact same filename as the original r3d file. You have to select this, and it is not on by default, so it gives you a choice.


Thanks Jabez for adding this feature!
Now I wish I had more .r3d files to play with, so I could try some large batch imports.:biggrin:

[Jabez Olssen]

While that makes sense, unless you also remove those suffixes on the original file, it probably breaks the ability to do a batch import by identifying only one of the files in the list. Am I wrong about that?

It only removes the suffix from the 'Filename' and 'VFX/DPX' columns, not from the 'Name' column. This is for just the reasons you have mentioned. The difference between the 'Name' and the 'Filename' columns is that 'Name' is the exact name of the matching Quicktime file, and 'filename' is the name of the r3d files. In the Avid the Clips actual Name has to match the Quicktime if it is to be automatically imported.




I hope that's user selectable.

It is.

[Seth Larney]

Nice work Jabez !

[filip kovcin]

Jabez,
thank you for this. is it possible to send you at least symbolic donation for your work. maybe paypal account? i will do this with a pleasure.

all the best,

filip

p.s. this place (reduser) is really something! i'm in love with it!

[Arnaud Paris]

Yes, a paypal donation system would make sense. Can you look into this.

Arno

[Jabez Olssen]

Thanks for the talk of donations. I don't really know how I'd go about setting anything up though, but I'll look into it.

In the mean time here is a new version:
http://www.mediafire.com/?d7wzjjemz7x

Version 1.0
It has the ability to add Prefixes and Suffixes.
Also it allows for the use of each clip's filename as its Tape name. Actual it is the Reel, Clip and Date parts of the R3d filename, limited to the first 16 characters (in order to work with Avid's EDL template for Red)

cheers

-Jabez

[sbaechler]

Hi

Your tool is great.

Is it possible to use Quicktime Pro (or Cleaner XL which uses QT) to convert the Red Proxies to an Avid QT like Avid DV so you don't need the actual Avid software to do this? Are the metadatas stored in the proxies as well?

Or is there a way to make Avid Fast-Importable files without having to buy an avid suite?

Regards
Simon

[MichaelP]

As long as the Avid QuickTime codecs are loaded on the system, available free form Avid.com, QuickTime Pro can make the proxies as needed. No Avid needed on the system.

[Dylan Reeve]

As long as you can read the RED Proxies (so have the QT codec) and can write Avid QT files (have the Avid codecs) then you should be able to do the conversion in any QT-capable product.

I've done it with Compressor on the Mac. It took about 2x realtime for a 2-minute clip from 1k Proxy to DV50 Avid QT (so around 4 minutes) on our 8-core MacPro. And then the fast import to Avid still takes around 30 seconds.

It would be better to import directly to Avid from the QT proxies, I think, as that way you're getting Avid-ready mediafiles and a nice Bin.

[sbaechler]

Yes. The best would be if there was an mxf tool that would make the media files directly. The bin file would be a plus but not necessary.

On the p2 system you just copy the mxfs in the AvidMediaFiles folder and the import into the project is very fast.

Is there a software that makes MXFs out of Quicktime? It doesn't have to be an Avid software since MXF is an open format.

What would be the best setting for Avid QT? For me this is always a long trial and error procedure...

For PAL DV I would set it to DV 4:2:0, lower field first, RGB color space. Is this correct?

-Simon

[MichaelP]

You don't want to go the extra step of an already created DNxHD encoded QuickTime to MXF since the lengthy part of the process is the essence encoding, not the metadata wrapping.

Michael

[Jeff Brue]

Also just from practical experiance, if you use the quicktime methodology, it prevents a lot of the problems of transferring avid media to multiple different stations that arn't on some kind of shared storage. It continuosly suprises me some of the ass backwards editorial workflows that exist, ie but I can just have my editor log and capture to both avid meridien's and save the cost of getting a lanshare.

[sbaechler]

You don't want to go the extra step of an already created DNxHD encoded QuickTime to MXF since the lengthy part of the process is the essence encoding, not the metadata wrapping.

Michael
Yes, the MXF would be in an native Avid format. Even Fast-Importing Quicktimes takes a while if there are a lot of clips. Especially if audio is involved.

I noticed that Avid is not a multi-core application. If I encode to an Avid codec in Quicktime pro, are all available cores used?

-Simon

[MichaelP]

I have been focusing more on RedCine of late which does have multicore support.

Michael

[Dominic Jones]

I nominate Cogito as Reduser of the week for this! thanks man.
Make that the year! Great work Jabez, thank you for all your time on this, mega important for the Avid heads...

Paypal donations system is a walk in the park to set up (don't tell me you can sort out an Avid metadata workflow but you can't set up a paypal account?!!) - just set up a paypal account for an email address that you use for nothing else (I'll invite you to googlemail if needs be, drop me a line if you want) and then publish that address for donations. People can donate whatever they like, or a pre-set fee from yourself (I'm guessing you'll go with whatever they like!), and then if you register your bank account with your paypal account (follow the details on paypal.com) you can transfer the money into your bank account online. See - easy!

I'll bung you a few quid even if I never end up using it - just for going WAY over and above the call of duty. Nice one fella! :)

[theatereleven]

The link for MetaCheater isn't working for me (using Windows and IE). Anyone else see this?

THANKS.

EDIT: a quick IP renew fixed...brought up a completely different page. Whatever....disregard.

CRAP. my first post to red was bogus. ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

[sbaechler]

I have been focusing more on RedCine of late which does have multicore support.

Michael

I just tested Quicktime Pro on a dual core Mac.
To export an Avid DV Quicktime from a Red proxy it uses about 90% CPU on both cores :)
It didn't copy the timecode track though :sad:
I was able to extract it from the proxy and paste it into the DV Quicktime so maybe there is a way to automate this.
On the other hand, meta cheater can use the proxies to extract the timecode data.

To export a 10bit uncompressed YUV Quicktime movie to Avid DV it was only using 30% CPU.

[Jabez Olssen]

Due to popular demand I worked out how PayPal donations work :) There is now a button in the new version of MetaCheater (v1.1, link in next post)... or this link will work too:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=metacheater%40staticpictures%2ecom&item_name=MetaCheater&no_shipping=1&tax=0&currency_code=USD&lc=NZ&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8
Thanks heaps to anyone who donates.


Make that the year! Great work Jabez, thank you for all your time on this, mega important for the Avid heads...

Paypal donations system is a walk in the park to set up (don't tell me you can sort out an Avid metadata workflow but you can't set up a paypal account?!!) - just set up a paypal account for an email address that you use for nothing else (I'll invite you to googlemail if needs be, drop me a line if you want) and then publish that address for donations. People can donate whatever they like, or a pre-set fee from yourself (I'm guessing you'll go with whatever they like!), and then if you register your bank account with your paypal account (follow the details on paypal.com) you can transfer the money into your bank account online. See - easy!

I'll bung you a few quid even if I never end up using it - just for going WAY over and above the call of duty. Nice one fella! :)

[Jabez Olssen]

Version 1.1 of MetaCheater now available.

The big new feature is the requested ability for it to handle SD Avid 24fps projects. In other words it can correctly alter the timecode on 24fps QTs to work in a 24pNTSC project that needs 30fps timecode. Also works with 24pPAL projects that need 25fps timecode.

(As usual there hasnt been a lot of bug testing done)

Also it removes the new "_F" and "_NA" RedAlert suffixes

And there is a PayPal 'Donate' button... :)

Here's the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1mbhzzq4gde

[MichaelP]

Thanks! I will be giving it a run - for users here, the change in timecode for SD projects is because SD does not have a true 24fps format - it is created from 30fps or 25fps sources. By "metacheating" to 30 and 25 timecode, it allows the Avid to recreate it's internal counts to 24 in the 24TC column to have frame accurate representation of both the 30, 25 and the original 24 all at the same time. Pulldown tracking is essential to the process since it can change a count by 1-2 frames if not used as part of the calculation.

Michael

[Dominic Jones]

Due to popular demand I worked out how PayPal donations work :) There is now a button in the new version of MetaCheater (v1.1, link in next post)... or this link will work too:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=metacheater%40staticpictures%2ecom&item_name=MetaCheater&no_shipping=1&tax=0&currency_code=USD&lc=NZ&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8
Thanks heaps to anyone who donates.
Top stuff man, glad you got it sorted!

I'd like to take this opportunity to urge anyone using Jabez' software to donate a little cash - after, what's 10 or 20 bucks for a solution that will save you as much time as this does? Add up all those little donations, and if we all do our bit Jabez might actually end up getting a half-decent day rate for all his hard work!!

[Dylan Reeve]

Hey Jabez,

I might be missing something really obvious here, but I can't get the select files to work well. I can't select multiple shots, as they are all in different source folders, and I can't maintain a multi-selection between folders...

Once I've added one file, I can't add any more.

I've tried copying the files I want into another folder for the purposes of adding them, but then the link to the R3D fails, and things like framecount don't work.

Am I missing something?

[Jabez Olssen]

Ah, yes. Metacheater doesn't currently let you add separate batches of quicktimes and make one ALE file. All the quicktimes do have to be in one folder.

The problem of moving the quicktimes all to one folder and the link breaking is an odd one. I haven't had problems with that in a while. But the best fix is to create the RedAlert wrappers into a single folder from the beginning. In RedAlert you can designate a folder for all quicktimes to be created in (instead of them being put into the same folder as their r3d files). They should then maintain the link to the r3d files and allow a single import into MetaCheater


Hey Jabez,

I might be missing something really obvious here, but I can't get the select files to work well. I can't select multiple shots, as they are all in different source folders, and I can't maintain a multi-selection between folders...

Once I've added one file, I can't add any more.

I've tried copying the files I want into another folder for the purposes of adding them, but then the link to the R3D fails, and things like framecount don't work.

Am I missing something?

[Dylan Reeve]

Sure, that makes sense, and with RedLine it should be fairly simple to do it all in one go.

Would it be a major hassle to allow files to be added from multiple locations? If not, put it down as a feature request from me :)


Ah, yes. Metacheater doesn't currently let you add separate batches of quicktimes and make one ALE file. All the quicktimes do have to be in one folder.

The problem of moving the quicktimes all to one folder and the link breaking is an odd one. I haven't had problems with that in a while. But the best fix is to create the RedAlert wrappers into a single folder from the beginning. In RedAlert you can designate a folder for all quicktimes to be created in (instead of them being put into the same folder as their r3d files). They should then maintain the link to the r3d files and allow a single import into MetaCheater

[MichaelP]

The other benefit of a single folder per ALE file is the batch import process after is easier to manage.

Michael

[Dylan Reeve]

Good point.

[Jabez Olssen]

The other benefit of a single folder per ALE file is the batch import process after is easier to manage.

Michael

Yes of course, I knew there was another reason. If a single ALE contains QT's that are in multiple folders it will be very frustrating when you batch import in the Avid. Actually I think this is important enough a reason not to add the ability to import multiple sets of QTs into one ALE file in MetaCheater.

[jamedia]

I believe it should be added as an 'option' at least.

As we speak i'm importing 320 files into Avid for a tvc. Straight from the _P proxy files. The only easy way to do this was to search for all files containing 'p.mov' in finder then drag and drop into avid. This is the only way we can batch import into the avid from multiple folders.

So once the job has been approved and we are ready to create an edl i have to match back to all the clips used, find them, open them, and find out the starting time in qt player. Then in avid change the starting timecode so we can create a useful edl.

I thought my dreams had come true with metacheater, although what is the point if im only doing one file at a time?

If i've missed something here, please tell me im REaDy to learn !

[Jabez Olssen]

But even if I was to add that feature into MetaCheater you would still have to direct the Avid to each file, one by one. The Avid can only automate the batch importation of quicktimes from an ALE if all those quicktimes are in the same folder. The feature you want would not help you work any faster, if you continue to keep the quicktimes in individual folders.

So the trick you missed was to drag all those "_p" quicktimes into a single folder first, then create an ALE using MetaCheater of all the QTs in that folder. Import the ALE into the Avid, select all the clips and chose 'Batch Import' from the Clip menu. Because all the clips are coming from the same folder, once you have correctly matched up one of the clips with its correct path (in the Avid's Batch Import window), all the others will work out their links automatically.

Some people report problems copying the QTs into a single folder, apparently sometimes this breaks the link to the original r3d files. It seems to me though that if you set RedAlert to create the QTs into one folder from the beginning, then their links are preserved.

Redline can be used to automate the creation on the QTs into one folder, even though the original r3ds are in several folders.





I believe it should be added as an 'option' at least.

As we speak i'm importing 320 files into Avid for a tvc. Straight from the _P proxy files. The only easy way to do this was to search for all files containing 'p.mov' in finder then drag and drop into avid. This is the only way we can batch import into the avid from multiple folders.

So once the job has been approved and we are ready to create an edl i have to match back to all the clips used, find them, open them, and find out the starting time in qt player. Then in avid change the starting timecode so we can create a useful edl.

I thought my dreams had come true with metacheater, although what is the point if im only doing one file at a time?

If i've missed something here, please tell me im REaDy to learn !

[jamedia]

ok i understand now.

thanks

[Dylan Reeve]

What I found is that I wasn't getting all the information in MetaCheater when I did that, as the connection to the source R3D file broke when I moved the QT Ref files.

But it's fairly easy to script REDLine to make new QT Ref files in a single location.

[Dylan Reeve]

I just noticed the ALE I got out of MetaCheater contains no 'Tracks' column - which according to the ALE spec is requried, although Avid didn't complain, but it has resulted in clips expecting VA1-2 and only getting V when I import them.

[Jabez Olssen]

Yeah, let's put this down as a 'known issue'. The workaround is so easy it doesnt bother me. Just select all the clips once you have imported the ALE into a bin (before you batch import the matching QTs) then select 'Modify' from the Clip menu, and then 'Set Tracks'. You can now delete the audio tracks.


I just noticed the ALE I got out of MetaCheater contains no 'Tracks' column - which according to the ALE spec is requried, although Avid didn't complain, but it has resulted in clips expecting VA1-2 and only getting V when I import them.

[Dylan Reeve]

Yeah did that - just thought I'd mention it as it meant it wasn't technically meeting the published ALE spec.

[Jabez Olssen]

I've placed MetaCheater on a simple website, so that there is now just one address to link to, and it will no longer change every time there is a new version.

The New Site for downloading the latest version is:

http://www.staticpictures.com/metacheater

[Michael Bach]

Anybody else getting "An syntax error was detected while trying to interpret a column specification" when attempting to import the ALE file. Tried it on Symphony and Xpress Pro...same result.

Cheers

Michael

[Dylan Reeve]

Hey Michael,

Send me your ALE if you like, I'll take a look at it.

(dylan at bunkermedia.co.nz)

[Ido Karilla]

The TC I am getting to the QT seems to be time of day and not the edge code. at the bottom right corner of redalert are present two TC, the one on the left seems to be the source TC ( I was using edge code while shooting) the one on the right has a weird connection to the time the file was copied from the red drive to my systems.This TC is the one I get with the metacheater utility.
Am I missing any obvious setting in redalert or metacheater?

[Dylan Reeve]

I believe RED stores two timecode tracks...
Edge Code - which is TC starting 01:00:00:00 on each reel and running REC RUN from there.
TOD Code - Time of Day which is a free running counter in the camera. The clips will have start timecode relating to the time of day they were shot.

I prefer TOD there is much less chance of timecode collision between reels. So if you get your numbering mixed up somehow, there is still a good chance you'll be able to find what you're looking for with the timecode which will be unique per camera per day.

[Jabez Olssen]

new version of MetaCheater (1.2) posted at
www.staticpictures.com/metacheater

A minor new feature added that is not specific to Red projects.
Plus bug fixes.
Also the Red tape name option now defaults to using the filename.

[MichaelP]

Cogito -

Did you look into the PAL SD timecode conversion? It should recalculate from 00:00:00:00.

Michael

[Jabez Olssen]

Do we really want anyone to cut films in Pal anymore :)

I have looked at it, but I need to clarify a couple of things. I'll talk to you about offline


Cogito -

Did you look into the PAL SD timecode conversion? It should recalculate from 00:00:00:00.

Michael

[Arnaud Paris]

The version of the download link on the website says 1.1

[Jabez Olssen]

whoops. fixed.


The version of the download link on the website says 1.1

[Jeff Brue]

a minor new feature... pfff... cognito you just kept alive many many avid sd editorial systems... I was going to post my excel script that did that but you beat me to it. When are you coming to LA so I can buy you dinner ;-)

[Jabez Olssen]

a minor new feature... pfff... cognito you just kept alive many many avid sd editorial systems... I was going to post my excel script that did that but you beat me to it. When are you coming to LA so I can buy you dinner ;-)

I was in LA last week.. just got home this morning :turned:

[Jörgen Persson]

I believe RED stores two timecode tracks...
Edge Code - which is TC starting 01:00:00:00 on each reel and running REC RUN from there.
TOD Code - Time of Day which is a free running counter in the camera. The clips will have start timecode relating to the time of day they were shot.

I prefer TOD there is much less chance of timecode collision between reels. So if you get your numbering mixed up somehow, there is still a good chance you'll be able to find what you're looking for with the timecode which will be unique per camera per day.

I just noticed that there's overlap in TOD TC between clips when the framerate is higher than the project rate (Which makes sense). But wouldn't this be a bigger problem when conforming with TOD TC instead of Edge Code TC?

[Dylan Reeve]

I just noticed that there's overlap in TOD TC between clips when the framerate is higher than the project rate (Which makes sense). But wouldn't this be a bigger problem when conforming with TOD TC instead of Edge Code TC?

That is an interesting point. In that case it would be quite possible for two clips to include the same TOD timecode.

However Edge code will always repeat on every reel. So if you have two reels with the same name, and both have a clip C001, then that clip is almost guaranteed to have a clip from 01:00:00:00 to 01:00:05:00 for example, making it difficult/impossible to accurate determine which of the duplicate reels that clip may have originated from. Whereas even with overlapping timecode from offspeed footage, it's unlikely that two card would have a clip with the same C-number also having the same TOD timecode segment.

[Jabez Olssen]

I've uploaded a new version of MetaCheater (v1.3)

It contains extra features and some bug fixes.

It now contains a 'Camroll' field. Camroll can be used as a tape source in an Avid EDL. In the RED options you can now have both the R3D's Reel name (ie A001) AND the full filename (ie A001_C001_080402) in the ALE in columns that will be able to be used as EDL source tapes. So you can decide later what sort of EDL you want to make - one that just refers to the Reel name, or one that refers to the full filename. (note: you have to download the special RED16 EDL template from the metacheater website if you want to make EDLs that use the full filename).

There is also now a setting for how the PAL 24 to 25 TC adjust button operates.

[Michael Bach]

Thats why we always use edgecode...TOD is a PITA as it is easy to end up with duplicate originator and TC on different frames. Edgecode sorts itself out properly when high record frame rates are used. It would be nice if in camera you could set the edgecode manually rather than always start at 1:00:00:00. This would give additional protection from same reel/TC possibilities.


Cheers

Michael

[Dylan Reeve]

Yeah, it's a problem.

Our recent music video would have been stung in either scenario.

Using TOD, as we did, there was one group of shots that was wrongly linked as the timecode was duplicated on multiple 100fps takes.

Using Edgecode would have been a problem in that we had duplicate reels, where the time of day code was all that we could really rely on to separate the takes.

[MichaelP]

Avid will track both edgecode and TOD timecode, so export whatever is needed for the situation at hand.

[Arnaud Paris]

Has anybody had problem with importing footage in Avid with sound through metacheater?
Thanks,

[MichaelP]

Metacheater does nothing to the sound. The issue is that the 24bit audio is backed into 32bits which the Avid does not like. RED is aware of the issue.

Michael

[Arnaud Paris]

Any possibility have Avid automatically convert it to 24bit during import? Or to have metacheater trick Avid into believing it's 24bit even if it's 32bit?
Thanks

[Dylan Reeve]

Actually - seeing as I'm going to be shooting a short film on a very short turnaround with RED in a month or so - how do we get the sound into Avid?

Nothing we've shot with RED has had sync sound so far, so I hadn't even tried yet.

Any solutions?

[MichaelP]

This is not so much as a cheat to solve it as it is the "packing". Red has indicated they are going to do something about it. I believe a workaround has been posted in the Avid section for getting audio into the system somewhere in this Avid section.

Michael

[Jabez Olssen]

There is a new version of MetaCheater on the website - Version 1.4

www.staticpictures.com/metacheater

This fixes a bug where the End Timecodes of quicktimes running at 29.97fps were calculated as if they were running at 24fps.

You can now also find and replace in the 'FPS' column

[Jörgen Persson]

Actually - seeing as I'm going to be shooting a short film on a very short turnaround with RED in a month or so - how do we get the sound into Avid?

Nothing we've shot with RED has had sync sound so far, so I hadn't even tried yet.

Any solutions?

Batch convert the proxies in compressor to 24 bit audio files.
Then sync it up in Avid with Autosync. It sucks, but it works.

[Dylan Reeve]

Batch convert the proxies in compressor to 24 bit audio files.
Then sync it up in Avid with Autosync. It sucks, but it works.

Yeah I figured that was going to be the answer. I were to make them into a .mov with only audio tracks (can you do that?) then do you think it might be possible to do a batch import to relink those audio tracks? Although I suspect I can't batch import the same clip twice (so the proxies I make with REDline will be video only, so the A1-2 tracks remain offline, I thought I might be able to batch import with those clips again and point at a file for audio source the second time).

I will have to test this before the day, obviously.

[KOedit]

Has anyone had this error when trying to pull and EDL from the Avid using Red16 settings? Exception: 'OMFI DoAudioExport() - Unhandled audio mediaDesc'

[MichaelP]

Try a V only EDL to see if that helps.

[KOedit]

All of my audio tracks in the EDL Mgr. were unchecked.

[KOedit]

Here's another issue I am having. I created an ALE thru Metacheater and batch imported all of my Red quicktimes into Avid. The footage is there when I load the clips but my bin shows the clips as having no media associated with them. When I choose "Select Offline Items" from the bin menu all of the clips become highlighted. It hasn't been problem until I tried to load my .MXF files onto Unity to work on the project and I cannot relink the clips to the media.
I thank any and all for their responses.
KO

[MichaelP]

Hmmm..... Unity. And you are merging during the import, correct?

Michael

[Jason Diamond]

i import all my clips directly to the unity on batch import and have had no issues. are you having the avid xcode or xcoding elsewhere and then just making metacheater ALE and batch importing?

[KOedit]

Here was my process: I created a single folder that had all of the .r3d files along with their _M.mov files in it. Used Metacheater to create an ALE from the _M.mov files in that folder. Imported the ALE into an Avid bin then batch imported the clips from the _M.mov files. The confusing part is the import seemed to work (I can see my footage) but the clips are still considered "Offline".

KO

[MichaelP]

OK, let me look into it. All my tests have been on non Unity systems.

Michael

[Jason Diamond]

so it doesnt show the "unity" clip icon or show in drive name that its listed as being there and you choose show offline and it says they're all offline but the media is there?

[lab601]

so it doesnt show the "unity" clip icon or show in drive name that its listed as being there and you choose show offline and it says they're all offline but the media is there?

i can try this for you tomorrow, is this what you are trying to do (on a mac on unity i assume):

make ale with metacheat from the qtrefs

batch import the imported ale generated clips from r3d qt refs to unity workspace.

here you say i should see the clips load in the monitors but show as offline in the bin.

what version of unity are you on? im on 5.01 with 5.1macclient.

dave

[Jason Diamond]

oh sorry.
it works great for me i do it all the time.
i was asking KOedit if thats what was happening for him :)

[lab601]

oh sorry.
it works great for me i do it all the time.
i was asking KOedit if thats what was happening for him :)

sorry, i'll still check it out and see how it goes here.

koedit, is this what you are trying to do and your results just below?

thanks

d

[feeonac]

hi

thanks so much for metacheater. it has been a great help.

i\m having a problem with a project i\m working on and i\m not sure if it\s metacheater that is the problem, but i thought i\d ask?

I\m importing a lot of 50fps shots into a p25 project in avid. They want quite a lot of slow motion. I was using metacheater. Opening the quicktimes, from red alert, changing to dpx, then i had to change the fps to 25 instead of 50 to get them into avid. The problem is that they had shot some dialogue at 50fps. When i double the speed in avid the footage is running slower than the 25fps sound. Do you know why this would be. the company that is doing to online have tested the footage and if they double is after exporting from redcine it is 25fps and syncs properly, but in avid after using metacheater the footage appears to be about 53 fps (or there abouts)?

any idea why this would be or is there a setting i could change to fix this?

Thanks

Fiona

[MichaelP]

I don't think that MetaCheaters knows what to do with VFR shot material. In order to get 50fps playback, you need to be in a 50fps project. For 25p project, you need to remove every other frame or do a motion effect on it in some way.

[feeonac]

I was using a p25 project because to start with we were told it would all be shot 25fps. We;re hoping to stay in p25 because we are already so far into the project and have started assembly, so changing to p50 now would be a real hassle.

Also I opened a p50 project and imported the footage. it had the same problem. doubling the speed still didn;t match the sound?

I;ve attached the metacheater settings we;re using in case i;m doing something daft!

Thanks

Fiona

[Jabez Olssen]

Despite the need for MetaCheater having been basically killed off (at least in a RED/Avid workflow) by Redline/RedRushes' ALE abilities... I've updated it. :)

MetaCheater v1.5 now available at www.staticpictures.com/metacheater

you can now find and replace within the 'Name' column, so you can add other suffixes besides ".mov", such as ".wav"

Also the options for the Tape and Camroll columns have been improved

And you add the same entered Start Timecode to all the clips by clicking 'Fill all Start TCs'

I think that's about it.

cheers

-Jabez

[MichaelP]

Thanks Jabez! Still lots of uses for MetaCheater in a VFX/Feature animation workflow though... How are things down under?

Michael

[Jabez Olssen]

Thanks Jabez! Still lots of uses for MetaCheater in a VFX/Feature animation workflow though... How are things down under?

Michael

Good! Busy though and its getting cold down here. How's Boston?

[Dylan Reeve]

I haven't actually tried the ALE thing from REDline or RedRushes yet, I'm still using MetaCheater... :)

[MichaelP]

REDrushes is very straighforward and allows both timecodes from the R3D files to be tracked. Does not do SD conversions, so all work is assumed to be at native rates - so if shooting 24fps or 23.976 it is an HD based post.

Michael

[Rocco Schult]

Despite the need for MetaCheater having been basically killed off (at least in a RED/Avid workflow) by Redline/RedRushes' ALE abilities... I've updated it. :)
...
I think that's about it.

cheers

-Jabez

Jabez, still your work is very much appreciated and the fact that you did it for the rest of us (and for free) is unbeatable.

Rock on mate.

[jamedia]

KOedit, I get the same problem. Not on a unity either. All working from a MAC. Generated all proxies (_p) with red2wrapper, then ALE with Meta Cheater v1.4
Import into Avid... no problem. But then I select 'select offline items' and they all highlight!!!
MC3.0 on a MACpro desktop running Leopard.