Cavision Warning

[spitfire]

We purchased Cavision’s new 6X6 universal matte box for use on RED cameras 60 & 61, and have returned it for a host of reasons. The most serious of which is shown in the attached photos. The spacing between the 19mm rods does not match the industry standard used by RED, ARRI, and others. It’s off by a couple of millimeters, and after weeks of haggling, the folks at Cavision informed us that’s acceptable to them and that the flawed unit we returned matches the rest of their product line perfectly, implying that they don’t intend for their products to interface with anyone else’s. You can get their box on the very end of a set of 18’’ rods on a RED, but only the at the very ends, because there is just enough flex in the rods to make it fit. But adding a RED adapter or an ARRI follow focus will stiffen the rods up, and it’s game over.
After five weeks of back and forth with Cavision, they still have not taken it upon themselves to verify the photos we sent them detailing the problem. They could have simply obtained an ARRI or RED accessory piece, and confirmed or denied our complaint. Instead, they informed us by email that they intend to charge our credit card a 10% restocking fee! That’s a $250.00+ charge for alerting them to a serious design flaw. Naturally we will dispute the charge, but thought the RED community should be aware of the problems with Cavision products, as well as the overwhelming lack of customer support in finding a common sense resolution. Please feel free to contact us for more information about problems with this unit.

[Adrian Correia]

where oh where is Curt! He can save us! Honestly though, I bought a Cavision mattebox a few years ago to use with my JVC GYDV500E and was never satisfied with how it mounted, the general build and of course the customer support. Since then, never been back and am happier for it.

[Jarred Land]

Thanks for the Warning Spitfire. I have notified Cavision.

[Michael Stanmore]

Ta muchly Spitfire.

Looks like my list of possible matte box options is getting real short. Bring it on, Kurt!

[Gian Joon]

Thanks guys for sharing that.

[HD Hildebrand]

That's too bad. I've had one of thier matteboxes for a long time and have really liked it. Was hoping to keep them as a contender. But really, what's up with the customer service? Here's the tip of the day: Happiness = sales.

[Chris Forbes]

Thanks for the warning I was going to order their new matte box for the EX1.

[Michael Schrengohst]

When someone gets a REDROCK I would like
to see how that fits.

[Jaime Vallés]

When someone gets a REDROCK I would like
to see how that fits.
Agreed. I'd also like to see the Redrock Mattebox mounted on the Zacuto 15mm rails on a RED.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I spoke to Bernie about this Mattebox, and he told me about the non-returnable aspect of it.. I told him as long as that was the case, I could not make an order. I was shocked he walked away from the business, but now I guess I know why!
Jay

[Greg David]

IF this is in fact the case then they can kiss my business goodbye FOREVER.

[Manfred Lopez]

Thanks for the warning. I love reading posts like these that unmask particularly ugly business practices. The fact that Jarred contacted them and they haven't bothered to respond here says a lot about them. Don't they understand the film business and how small it is? I mean this site represents a potential customer base of 4,000 to 5,000 people.

[Poi Boy]

I've gone with the Vocas 450...a superb box and with red accents it looks like it was made for red.
Aloha
-A

[Matthew Rogers]

I've gone with the Vocas 450...a superb box and with red accents it looks like it was made for red.
Aloha
-A

How much did that end up costing and where did you get it from?

Matthew

[Poi Boy]

I think it was about $4500. and the engineering is outstanding. I got it through Miller Canada. Talk to Roger, very nice guy and very knowledgeable.
Aloha
-A

[Brent J. Craig]

Can anyone explain what the photos in Post#1 are showing and what I should be looking for in them?

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Unfortunately no-returns is probably also a result of the exploitations of the film student mentality: "Buy now. Return later."

[Shawn Nelson]

Come'on Cavasion, where are you? Hop on this board and clear this thing up...if you have any desire to keep business

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

haha, this kind of thing is hilarious to me. How can you honestly believe in this type of business that you can screw over a customer and offer awful support and that it won't cost you a LOT MORE MONEY than just trying to be helpful. When I had a problem with B&H, notably that I was told my order would ship before their 6-month long Jewish holiday or whatever (ok it was like 2 weeks but that was completely unacceptable), then I didn't get my equipment in time for a shoot so I had to rent a bunch of stuff and spend extra money, at least they were nice enough to send me a $200 check back and apologize for the mixup. It's good they did, too, I was going to have my attorney draft them a letter because I considered it a pretty serious mistake. But their gesture of good will made me happy with the company to some extent, I still think a professional business can't just shut down for any reason, it's unprofessional, I don't care what religion or political persuasion you are this is the United States it isn't Afghanistan or something. At least now I'll order from B&H again, actually preparing another $4,000 order, so they kept my business provided they are actually open. The fact they close at 1 p.m. on Friday's, which is in reality 10 a.m. in real time (who cares about East Coast time, sorry, the film industry operates on West Coast time), also seems pretty lame. But for the 165 days or so per year where B&H actually decides to, you know, do business, they're awesome with their prices and services. Just don't be surprised when they go on a four-week vacation for a holiday you've never heard of.

As for these clowns and their matte box, it's not rocket science that in an age where everyone has a computer and the Internet that if you start screwing someone over they're going to hurt you badly. It reminds me of Maddox, the hilarious and brutal online comedian, who got screwed by some company I can't even remember which one, and he posted about his experience online, and little did this retarded company know that he gets about 1-5 million views on every article he posts, so pretty soon that company's e-mail box was FLOODED with thousands upon thousands of angry fans of Maddox blasting the company saying they would never use them again unless they apologized and made the situation right. Well, sure enough, tail firmly between legs, the company came back and made things right. That's the power of the Internet. Rest assured if you're a big enough fish nobody, NOBODY wants to screw with you, because it can't possibly hurt you as much as it can hurt them. I hope these guys learn their lesson.

[Jay A. Kelley]

You know, I don't want to rub this in, but since I decided to start the ARRI group buy on the matteboxes, a lot of people have asked me "Why in God's name do you want to spend so much for a mattebox?!"

The issue with CAVision is one reason. I KNOW I am getting the best there is, I will be treated a specific way because I am purchasing an item like ARRI(The guys we decided to use; Abel Cine, have been wonderful to us) and this means a lot right now.

Don't get me wrong, I am really going to "cheap out" in some areas due to lack of funds, but we're getting a LOADED ARRI MB-20II for the same price (And in some people's cases a little less) than the Vocas.

I was going to use CAvision for their follow focus cause I heard good things about it. Sigh....Not anymore.

ARRI is great, but it's not the only choice. In fact the CAvision was at the top of my list for a while. Then I began to get worried because I realized how HEAVILY I will be depending on the mattebox.. So I went with the MB-20 to play it safe.

When it comes to items that DIRECTLY affect my picture, I'm going to be veeeerryyyy careful.

Jay

[spitfire]

Jay--

I sincerely regret expressing early enthusiasm for the Cavision box to you on a sidebar conversation. We really thought it was going to fill the niche. Cavision has certainly added insult to injury by failing to step up, assess the situation, and find a solution. I'm not at all suprised they have not chimed in on this thread. Throughout all our communications with Cavision, we had a intuitive feeling that management's default approach to their customers seemed to be one of suspicion and contempt. Jason, our sales rep, could not respond to our concerns without first "checking with his supervisor". Only after our follow up call several days later, we would again be told they could find no real problem, and that we could simply return the box and pay the restocking fee.

We even suggested taking the value of the unit and applying it to a couple of their clip on boxes and a follow focus unit, only to be told the units we were proposing for exchange had exactly the same specs as the unit we sent back! We asked if they had actually verified that fact, and the answer was yes! I can't remember a more frustrating situation with so little common sense made available to resolve it! Very eye opening.

[RCFisher]

I bought a Cavision Matte box for my DV500 many moons ago and am happy with it, decent value for the money. But I did have access to a machine shop and do a bit of machining and made a lot of mods to it so that it worked for me! It is very cheaply made but then again you are not spending $5k on it. I think I spent 6-8 hours doing mods to improve it but I had the time to do it and not much money.

The phrase I live by is "you get what you pay for and nothing is free!"

[Jim McKinney]

Jay--

... only to be told the units we were proposing for exchange had exactly the same specs as the unit we sent back! . . .

So what do their products interface with?:wacko:

[Dominic Jones]

So what do their products interface with?:wacko:
They have their own line of plates and rods, so I presume (with no practical knowledge) that those would be of the same "standard" as the MB. FWIW, I've never been happy with any CAVision products I've used, although that's not a very large sample of their line. Build quality in all was severely lacking, however, which is not a good sign!


When someone gets a REDROCK I would like
to see how that fits.
I've got one on order (in the first run of 50), and I'll be more than happy to post a short review of it when it arrives...

[mavrix]

It's a bummer you guys have had a bad experience with Cavision - I actually bought two of their matteboxes and follow-focus units and have had good experiences with them on the Reds - they've worked well.

Rob

[Michael Morlan]

We used a CAVision RFF-15B follow focus on a recent feature I shot and were quite disappointed in its build quality:

The disc marker could not be properly cinched down to prevent movement around the marking wheel. We taped it to lock it to the gear cylinder.

The internal gears suffered a failure when working with a particularly tight lens, increasing lash to unacceptable distance.

The rocker arm interferes with tightening of its lever when positioned at the side of a lens. We used the focus gear under the lens at all times.

Regarding less expensive matte boxes; seriously consider the Petroff - excellent build quality, tool free modularity. The only thing I would like in the Petroff system would be swing-away and a bellows for 138mm filters. But a 4x4 will work just fine for my polarizers/grads.

The P45-2-W two-stage is $1550 at B&H. I just got mine, used plus nine donuts, for $900 on eBay.

http://petroff.ws (http://petroff.ws/)

M

[Nate Clapp]

Cavision has pictures of 6x6 universal matte box on a Red on it's website. does that mean problem is fixed? anyone with eyes on a Cavision mattebox? Or are they "flexing" the rods to get it on as well?

[Alexander Nikishin]

DO NOT buy from Cavision, their customer service is down right rude!

Their carbon fiber rods are always bent and or off in diameter.

And if you attempt to return something, expect to spend a day or two on the phone beating around the bush.

Just bad business.

[Nate Clapp]

Ah, another happy customer. based on their website though they are positioning themselves as Red friendly, or at least compatible. Sounds like in real life they can't even get 105mm spacing right? You can only make so much off of restocking fees, you have to sell a few actual units, which I can't see happening if they can't fix the spacing problem.

[Shawn Nelson]

I'm shocked that Cavision hasn't jumped on here to strongly combat these ill-feelings and make everything right. Are they that stupid to piss off thousands of customers/potential customers? Don't they realize how much they are losing by this?

EDIT: Wow, I just looked at Cavision's website, they are advertising themselves as being very Red compliant, in complete contradiction to this thread. Who's Red is that in the pictures?? Cavision needs to come clean, I would love to see them honestly competing and providing nice low-cost accessories.

[Dale Launer]

On their website Cavision shows this mattebox and their follow focus...."mounted on Red rails system"

http://www.cavision.com/pictures/Red/P1000048.htm

The quotes are in their words. If you relied on this ad to make your decision, I believe you are in the correct legal position to get all your money back.

[Jarred Land]

EDIT: Wow, I just looked at Cavision's website, they are advertising themselves as being very Red compliant.

I requested a sample of the 6x6 back in November to test from Cavision to see what the problems were when this thread was heating up.. They did respond within a few hours with a "sure" but i haven't seen anything since... So i'm not sure what to say to you guys about them claiming to be RED compliant as that compliancy sure didn't come from us. Hopefully someone can get to the bottom of this.

[spitfire]

After a month long back and forth through American Express, the card company found in favor of Spitfire, and credited us for the full purchase price.

Jarred, I suspect enough time has passed since our run-in that even the headstrong owners of Cavision have had time to face up to the design goof and retool.

But the fact remains, their concept of customer service is truly pathetic. Hindsight leads me to believe they just OEM poorly machined products from overseas at price points so low that they simply don't see the need to add a reliable support component.

Buyer beware, regardless of how RED compliant they appear to be.

[Shawn Nelson]

I am still curious which serial # of Red is depicted in their product shots.

[Brigham Edgar]

I'm sure glad i read this thread, i was just about to lay down some hard cash with Bernie for the 6x6. I think i may hold off now, use a couple of screw on ND's and wait for RED or REDROCK to get underway, after all, we're only talking a month or two away compared to a world of pain.

[Shawn Nelson]

Please move to the Accessories section so others can be warned.

Cavision, if you are reading this, come clean. I'd love for you to be a low cost contender, instead of something that everyone warns each other about. I visited your booth at NAB 2007, thought you made some excellent products, this thread made me think otherwise. Please make effort!