EPIC - AJA KiPRO mini - 25fps VIDEO PLAYBACK Problems

[Mark Toia]

Has anymore had any success with EPIC and the KiPRO mini running video playback at 25fps from the EPIC.

We can get 24, and 30 fps to work perfectly no worries at all, .. but 25fps nothing. Obviously a frame rate issue with the KIPRO. GRRRR!!!!

You cannot see live images on the HD screen when trying to record at the same time. We are going HDSDI into the kipro then through to the HD monitor, but cannot get a 25fps image to play live at the same time of recording. The monitor screen goes BLUE!! (tried many different monitors as well) .. but again 24, and 30 fps to work perfectly
So in fact the ki pro mini does record the feed from the EPIC and plays it back, but no live vision at the same time as record..

Pisses me off! You buy this shit and it doesn't work !!!.. I think some people think that there is more 24p out there in the world than there is 25p... NOT!!
I hate down converting the signal to client, it just looks like shit and they blame the poor image to there monitor on the camera.

Any work arounds out there guys. .. or any other devices you think may work at 25fps and is small.

You know what the bummer will be. The moment I spend thousands of dollars getting a good playback system working for the EPIC..
The playback in the camera will be enabled the next day. I can see this coming a mile away..

NOT REDS FAULT or THERE PROBLEM... Thats just life.
I was so spoilt by the REDONE.. I didnt realise how lucky I was..

Anyway.. Any AJA Ki pro mini engineers out there to try save the day.

[Vladimir Eugene]

I'll double check it later today, but during our check out, I believe it gave me a picture at 25,

[Rattakarn Srithavatchai]

same problem with Aja ki pro.

[Mark Toia]

Im not the only one for sure.. A few people are having the same issues.

[Deanan]

We did some 25p fixes in an upcoming build.
Email me if you want to test it before we release.

[Harcharan Singh]

Hi,
I was looking at Blackmagic Shuttle for playback...Has anyone tested it.
Thanks
Harcharan

[Dan Kanes]

Did you try playing with some of the PSF settings in the kiPro? I believe there are two separate settings related to PSF/normal adjustments in the mini menus...

Did you try a decimator MD quad to split the signal coming out of the epic - one into the ki pro, one to client monitor, the loop out of the ki pro goes into the sdi-2 port on your panasonic BTLH...

Sdi-1 = live feed
Sdi-2 = playback from kipro?

[Mark Toia]

We did some 25p fixes in an upcoming build.
Email me if you want to test it before we release.


You think it's your end? ...
I could have sworn it was a Ki pro problem.

Ta mate
Emailing now.

[Mark Toia]

Did you try playing with some of the PSF settings in the kiPro? I believe there are two separate settings related to PSF/normal adjustments in the mini menus...

Did you try a decimator MD quad to split the signal coming out of the epic - one into the ki pro, one to client monitor, the loop out of the ki pro goes into the sdi-2 port on your panasonic BTLH...

Sdi-1 = live feed
Sdi-2 = playback from kipro?

Thats out current fix.. but annoying//

[Deanan]

You think it's your end? ...
I could have sworn it was a Ki pro problem.

Ta mate
Emailing now.

Yes, it's not the KiPro.
Be nice to Aja. KiPro is cool. :)

[Mark Toia]

ok...

And thanks mate.
Awesome service as usual!

[Adam Eden]

Mark the problem is that most devices require 25PSF and don't work with 25P. My IDX cam wave wont work at 25P from the EPIC either.

The only way at this stage to get a signal out of the EPIC and into a clients hands in HD is the TERDEK CUBE. Its about $2.5k and works a treat. I just saw it at SMPTE and it is a breeze to setup.
It even records its own H.264 with RED TIMECODE and CLIP NAME so you can use the files for an offline. It doesn't record hi res prores but this little puppy sends hidef wifi to an IPAD, IPHONE etc.


Have a look

[Mark Toia]

Yes we have had a play with it.

But it wasn't simple... It was a pain to be honest. as know way as simple as just plugging in.. I wish it was.

I'm sure it will get better.

That said. When the EPIC gets playback enabled, You wont hear a peep from me about any of this Video playback rubbish.

But thanks for the reply :)

[stu aull]

Harcharan-
seems to be precious little info out yet on the Shuttle. Love the concept AND BlackMagic stuff in general but here are 2 concerns I have:
-only seems to record UNcompressed video - no ProRes option. So BIG files which might defeat low initial cost
-non-interchangeable internal battery (!) - which would seem to be a deal breaker for location shooting. Does provide an external jack for power, so maybe there is a clever way to rig an external battery or (and this would be sweet) maybe off the Red camera's power?
-no apparent rig or framework to actually mount it on anything. At least AJA offers an optional mount plate.
-tho shown on their site, I see no listing for BM-sourced SSD cartridges/drives so you need to source these elsewhere.
If BM wants to step in here and shed some light? I know as a (future) Scarlet owner I will be buying SOMEone's external recorder.
Apologies if this has jacked this thread. Maybe we need to set up a thread in external recorded options. NAB certainly revealed a boatload of them!

Stu Aull
Alaska

[Jack Heller]

Anyone having problems connecting the mini to the internet / computer for firmware update?

[Brigham Edgar]

I was quoted from a re-seller that the Blackmagic shuttle will record at approximately 10gb per minute give or take. A 128gb SSD will last 12 minutes...and only the extremely expensive top end SSD will work...extremely expensive! Just in no way practical for lengthy shooting unless there is the budget, then why do this when you have RAW.
RED's H264 1080p high debayered module for EPIC at $2500 is being shipped in September, this will also stream to iPads, iPhones etc over dedicated wifi...synced TC for the files which are recorded on CF cards which one can imagine will have full playback optioning etc. Doesn't help you now Mark but it's coming. No H264 for me though, holding off on that one for the Prores version or the Samurai for sure. Interesting to note the Ki Pro issues as this may stem over to all recorders of 1080p25???

[Brigham Edgar]

But heh, the Blackmagic shuttle has playback and is only around $350 plus a drive so this may be a cheap under $1K option for immediate playback without keeping every shot on file.

[Gerhard Riesenhuber]

Hi Mark,

Maybe this box can help to do a HD-SDI cross conversion for AJA KiPro:
http://www.doremilabs.com/products/broadcast-products/xdvi-20s/

Regards,
Gerhard

EDIT: Here Adrian Jebef say's you can use AJA KiPro mini:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?59139-Epic-with-Ki-Pro-Mini&p=771653&viewfull=1#post771653

[Harcharan Singh]

But heh, the Blackmagic shuttle has playback and is only around $350 plus a drive so this may be a cheap under $1K option for immediate playback without keeping every shot on file.

Correct..You can format the drives once it is full....user it for playback only ...not storage.
Harcharan

[Mark Toia]

Thanks Gerhard,
Unfortunately, I don't want to plug any more crap inline just to get a picture on a screen and record it. but Thanks for thinking of me.
Also Adrian is incorrect.. We have tried.

RED has given us a fix :)

All is ok now.




Hi Mark,

Maybe this box can help to do a HD-SDI cross conversion for AJA KiPro:
http://www.doremilabs.com/products/broadcast-products/xdvi-20s/

Regards,
Gerhard

EDIT: Here Adrian Jebef say's you can use AJA KiPro mini:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?59139-Epic-with-Ki-Pro-Mini&p=771653&viewfull=1#post771653

[Patrick Tresch]

Be aware. 25p is still worked on.

I had synch issue in some clips (not all)... 22 frames asynch in 15 min recording. It was build 1.14.9.
Red is working on it.

We used internal synch (no genlock).

Pat

[Gerhard Riesenhuber]

@Mark: No problem :-) So you got a little firmware upgrade? Good to know, if I need it too.
Because the Teradeck is no solution through it's heavy delay.

@Patrick: What's the problem with 25fps? Only internal timecode-problem?

[Patrick Tresch]

Still no idea... Sorry.

We used : Internal clock, Not genlocked

Some, and not all, of the clips we shot @ 25p show a "slight" synch drift. I never had this problem with the RED ONE.

Pat

[Gerhard Riesenhuber]

My experience with RED One was to always use external sync (Lockit's attached) to stay in sync with audio.

Gerhard

[Dewi Bungsu]

Hi Deanan,

We have the same problem as Mark, is it possible to get that build you gave him? Thanks in advance.




Dewi

[Tobias Straka]

We did some 25p fixes in an upcoming build.
Email me if you want to test it before we release.

Don't have our M here to test - is this fix included in the current beta firmware v1.6.27?

[Deanan]

Don't have our M here to test - is this fix included in the current beta firmware v1.6.27?

Yes.

[Tobias Straka]

Yes.

Thanks Deanan for all your great work - you guys rock!

[Kemalettin Sert]

Yes.

whats this fix for?