miniRED PRIMES life

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Haven't seen this posted elsewhere. So recently I've been thinking about getting an Epic S or a Scarlet Interchangeable after getting the Fixed Lens Scarlet. And the battle for me isn't really resolution but is lens life. To me it seems sensors are getting bigger and bigger as we move forward. With the Scarlet Interchangeable my understanding is that the mini Primes are pretty much specific to that camera.

Will these lenses only be functional on a 2/3's sensor camera such as a Scarlet Interchangeable?

Does RED plan on continuing to make 2/3's sensor cameras to continue to support these lenses?


I'm not really up to speed on lenses to sensors and how they effect one another. I plan to read up on it soon. I guess my main question would be to RED directly in do they plan on making another camera that will still utilize these lenses even as technology advances and the cameras evolve? Or are they pretty much for the Scarlet Interchangeable and that alone at this point.

So my question isn't really from a resolution/quality comparison between the Scarlet and Epic, but more from which will allow the longer shelf life of the lens purchases that will follow.

[Bastiaan Maat]

I'm not sure sensors will become bigger, might stay the same size but just have a higher resolution. I personally am not big on DOF so i like the smaller ones :coolgleamA:

And 2/3 could be the standard for Red's small sized sensor. But with the promoses Red gives, you'll never know...

[Michael Olsen]

I don't know that RED will project out into the future as to the future of the 2/3" chip in their lineup.
2/3" does have a big place in production - the qualities of that sensor size or a similar S16mm sensor are uniquely valuable.
I hope that RED give some serious life to the Scarlet program.
While scarlet doesn't have the same power and resolution of the Epic, a Scarlet with a nice little mini-prime strikes me as an obscenely fun camera to shoot with.

[John C Picking Jr]

I agree. The Scarlet program has fun written all over it. Professional quality fun. I am not a pro. I like nice things. I am extremely excited about the Scarlet Fixed now and Interchangeable possibilities later.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Sensors are not getting bigger in the broad sense. The ability to make bigger sensors, and cameras that use them, is becoming more reasonable and economical. So we are being presented now with mainstream cameras using S35/APS-C/DX format sensors and soon with professional cameras using 65/70mm and medium format sized sensors. While this is all happening, no one is sacrificing their smaller offerings. 2/3" and 16mm sized imagers still make a lot of sense for many situations. Many ENG operations, live event tasks, etc.. all can be served far better with smaller imager sizes. Perceived / usable DOF is only one advantage of smaller sensors -- or more appropriately, the shorter focal lengths that go with shooting smaller imager formats. Using smaller imagers means that we can have smaller, more compact cameras and smaller optics. Not everyone wants to lug around a 35mm-sized 10X zoom when covering battle zones and natural disasters.

2/3" / 16mm cameras are not going anywhere. Not anytime soon, possibly not ever.

I would expect the abilities and resolution of the Scarlet 2/3" platform to evolve and improve over time. I'm sure they already have plans for higher resolution and more capable sensors within the 2/3" form factor.

RED is uniquely poised to pull off a coup in the 2/3" camera world. The future of cameras is smaller, lighter, more modular and more powerful -- everything that Scarlet is compared to all of the other 2/3" systems on the market. With the smaller and lighter nature of this also comes the elimination of the optical prism block used in 2/3" broadcast cameras. To use current lenses designed to cover the 2/3" formats, you need optical correction to compensate for the missing prism block that the 3-chip 2/3" systems have. This is easily introduced into the optical path via a simple adapter. It unfortunately introduces a magnification effect and light loss.

The fixed-lens Scarlet should run about $4K or a bit less for the brain alone, about $6K for a fully shootable configuration. That is 1/3 to 1/4 of the cost of most comparable 2/3" servo zoom lenses alone.

[Michael Olsen]

Agreed, Jeff. I think 2/3" will be around for quite some time. Whether or not RED continues to produce for that market, I don't know, but I hope they do.



Will these lenses only be functional on a 2/3's sensor camera such as a Scarlet Interchangeable?


Sorry, Jeffrey - I totally forgot about this one. I'm guessing that the mini-primes will have an image circle that is big enough or slightly larger than 2/3". RED may have decided to make them compatible with an S16mm size sensor (the direction I'd ultimately like the camera to go) or another slightly larger format.

But I very seriously doubt that these lenses could be used under normal circumstances on larger S35 or FF35 imagers because they would vignette severely.


I guess my main question would be to RED directly in do they plan on making another camera that will still utilize these lenses even as technology advances and the cameras evolve?
As with any company, I think it's rather impossible to predict the EOL for any given series or style of products. And here we are talking about the end of production before it has even begun!

[Bastiaan Maat]

As with any company, I think it's rather impossible to predict the EOL for any given series or style of products. And here we are talking about the end of production before it has even begun!

It would not harm Red or give their competition any usefull information if they could make a statement on the long term furture of the 2/3'' size camera's (I guess, Scarlet v2.0 or even v3.0 in the comming 3-5 years) This would help with investing in glass... As much I would love Red to make a statement on this I can imagine that people are thinking that 2/3'' is end of life (or the last of a kind) I guess many have seen this picture (or something like it) And are thinking higher resolution will mean bigger sensors. But I do hope Red will stick with the 2/3'' size and just up the resolution over the years on their future cameras. (not stating they should not make other cameras that use the other formats)

http://camerarentalz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/dsmc-sensor-formats-576x756.jpg

[Maik Müller Menendez]

Good question Jeffrey. I'm thinking about the same. While it would be nice to add a interchangeable Scarlet to my arsenal, i'm not sure about buying a whole set of mini-primes. Such a investment would be somehow tied to Scarlet's future, and this is a bit unsure at the moment. Scarlet has changed into something totally different, its far away from the original concept (and i'm thankful for that). The result of this is, most of all possible upgrades for a Scarlet 2 would make it a EPIC (Scarlet S35, best example). There is not much room for a Scarlet 2 at the moment, other than re-positioning Scarlet as successor to 16mm-film (like EPIC is for 35mm-film). The often mentioned s16mm-sized sensor with higher resolution (4k or above) makes lots of sense to me.

So that are my thoughts, without knowing about a possible 2nd Scarlet with which i can use the mini-primes, i'm probably not going to invest into a full set. I don't see alternative cameras coming from other companies, i wouldn't want to buy anything else than a RED anyway. ;)

If Scarlet doesn't get more life after the fixed and interchangeable, i'll save more money and go the EPIC(-S) route. But i hope RED isn't done with 2/3 and 16mm, i think this format deserves more life.

[David Rasberry]

Scarlet with mini-primes will be particularly suitable to sophisticated lightweight 3d Steadicam rigs I think. I don't think Red would be making such an investment in the lenses and the format if they did not expect it to be around in the future. 16mm has existed alongside 35mm for nearly 100 years and 2/3" format is still by far the most widely used broadcast EFP production format across all genres and types of production. The particular needs of narrative drama don't apply to a lot of bread and butter production work. For much of this 2/3" is the large format, and the most practical all around.