100 REDs are going back. A piece of film history that should be preserved!!!

[Jonas Rejman]

With the new PL mount, the RED Cinema Company stated, that they will replace all of the 100 initial cameras.

Do I understand it right, that there will be 100 RED "alphas" going back to the shelfs of the RED headquarters?

If so, I strongly plead not to disassemble or "refabricate" all of them to later serial numbers.
I hear the outcry of the RED believers, waiting in the line, but I think, that this is more important.

Some of these machines should be preserved for the generations to come. I see them in art museums, in museums of technology around the globe, behind bullet-proof glass exhibited in filmschools, admired by students of film history.

I see Mark L. Pederson, as a grandfather showing his grandson the RED #6 in the New York Technological Museum. The little is asking in amazement:
"And you were really among the first guys, who was shooting with it?" "Yes, this is the first commercial available model and it shoot 2 feature films." And the eyes of the grandson will be filled with silent pride.

I see some day Mr. Jannard's Prague model exhibited in the National Technical Museum in Prague, the very museum I visited dozens of times as a little boy. And when my grandson will ask me about the name, I will answer:
"Well, this great man, just loved this great city." - And I will be proud as well.

We relive in this century the digital analogy of what happened when Mr. Edison presented his Kinetograph around 1880. In my eyes Mr. Jannard is the Edison of the 21st century in the cinematographic area. He is writing the history of film right now.

The value of those first 100 cameras cannot be determinated. Every owner of those is the very first believer in the RED project, those who trusted a vision, that was too radical to be believed. These machines are unique, because the experience with them lead to a redesign. They are the first step in the RED ONE walk of fame. The are the RED ONE ones. Therefore, they should get the attention, they deserve.

I may point out something, that is maybe obvious, but as an European who takes the history's lessons serious, I do not want to get those "historic" jewels of technology lost in the stream of the ongoing and breathtaking development.

[NateWeaver]

Jesus, it's just a camera.

[Joel Kaye]

They'll probably be hanging on a wall at Oakley forming the RED Logo before you know it.

[Jarred Land]

Jesus, it's just a camera.

those first hundred are all our first born and are priceless.. dont worry, they are going to be very well cared for.

[NateWeaver]

I don't mean to denigrate your efforts, nor what you've achieved, but Jonas was being a little googly-eyed.

[Warren Kommers]

power dorks. Myself included.

[Antoine Fabi]

Jesus, it's just a camera.

hee hee...

True, ...but we must admit that these are maybe "collectible", like old Gibson 50's Les Paul guitars... ?

Donno...

[Casey Green]

I don't mean to denigrate your efforts, nor what you've achieved, but Jonas was being a little googly-eyed.

and let him be. it shouldn't concern anyone else, but him, right?


The value of those first 100 cameras cannot be determinated. Every owner of those is the very first believer in the RED project, those who trusted a vision, that was too radical to be believed. These machines are unique, because the experience with them lead to a redesign. They are the first step in the RED ONE walk of fame. The are the RED ONE ones. Therefore, they should get the attention, they deserve.

One other thing I would like to add to what Jonas said is that there are many others out there, like myself, who have followed the project passionately from the beginning and would have had one of the first reservations if we had the budget for it. Many people in this unique community have contributed to this amazing project, even those who can't afford a reservation at this point in time. :)

These are truly interesting times. I agree that this is historic, and in time, we just might be able to look back on this with a sense of contribution.

[Jonas Nyström]

Jesus, is this a camera? ;-)

[Brian Reisdorf]

Being one of the few that actually own one of the first one hundred, I'll admit I was a bit sad at hearing they were going to completely replace the units entirely as opposed to an internal upgrade. Obviously though, it's a completely irrational feeling, considering we're getting what's looking to be a vastly improved camera system and the turnaround on a replacement will be far, far quicker than an actual upgrade. At least we get to keep a little badge of honor (or insanity?) in the form of an "X" series serial.

[Jannard]

I am a big fan of camera history and share Jonas' feelings. Boris and Natasha are at the head of the RED museum. We are keeping track of the progress of RED through the cameras. Trust me when I say it matters to me. I understand it may not matter to some and they are "just cameras". Not to "this guy". Soderbergh became emotionally attached to the 4 prototypes he used to shoot "Guerrilla" and "The Argentine" so I know I am not alone.

Jim

[Charles Angus]

History is too often forgotten in the march of progress. It's not silly to want to preserve something for the future.

C.

[dino g]

red #0031 represented tonight at the Plastercity RED event, hundreds and hundreds of hollywood elite production and post people witnessed the new RED reel and the work of the first 100 days of the first 100 cameras, it was truly remarkable.

i am not looking forward to giving this baby up. not at all. it works perfectly and the imagery is unbelievable. but but but....

[Jonas Nyström]

"I understand it may not matter to some and they are "just cameras". Not to "this guy"."

What do you mean by saying this? Don't you think everone in the line, waiting patiently for months, many of us putting in our own money, is not devoted enough to RED?

Jim, you are not alone - I love my cameras - and I'm shure I will love my RED the most. And I love your great work, it is a revolution. But still, it is great camera, not a new religion.

[Axel Mertes]

"I understand it may not matter to some and they are "just cameras". Not to "this guy"."

What do you mean by saying this? Don't you think everone in the line, waiting patiently for months, many of us putting in our own money, is not devoted enough to RED?

Jim, you are not alone - I love my cameras - and I'm shure I will love my RED the most. And I love your great work, it is a revolution. But still, it is great camera, not a new religion.


Yep,

and certain forms and interpretations of religions don't fit well with cameras at all. Many religions deny making images from poeple, not to talk making images of their god(s) respectively.

What new religion would that be anyway, "Mad Scientology" :) ???

I do respect relgious poeple to a certain grade, but pronouncing the word "certain" here... On other forums this usually doesn't turn into real religious but so called "platform war" scenarious if taken tooo personal. Clearly sometimes is even business very similar to war (hopefully none gets really bodywise injured) but in my experience argumenting on such doesn't help. The "thing" must stand for itself and shine alone. If it accomplishes that task - even if only for a few fools - its ok, its outstanding. But please don't get so deep to become religious to "things" (even when we all call them "baby" at some point :) ). We may love those "things" (without argueing about the parametrics of love here) but better is to stay away of getting religious. Many "things" get obsolete in their use at some point, that could hurt more if you are too religious about it.

Hope I did not offend anybody with this small excurse...

Bottom line to me: These devices are of historic value to document technical achievements that may excite many people interested in such things, as much as anything that gets developed. Some "things" have more influents to many (many watches hollywood movies, so surely this "RED ONE" "thing" is one of them), others are such niche products that they get quickly forgotten by the masses. Keep them in good condition, as you would do e.g. with a historic car or the like.

Axel

[Michael Stanmore]

What new religion would that be anyway, "Mad Scientology" :) ???
Axel

Yeah! awesome. I'll join that! Bring on the coolade.

[vidalsosa]

Jesus, it's just a camera.

Oh please!!!! since when did it become a "googly eyed" event to express your true feelings about anything? I'm so sick n tired of folks like you, denigrating folks like Jonas for expressing themselves, moreso, when they're speaking from a historical/anthropological perspective.

My old grandma used to say, "if you don't have something nice to say about someone, then say nothing to them". Please let's refrain from putting others down when we have nothing meaningful to contribute ourselves. My 50c.

[Mark L. Pederson]

Jesus, it's just a camera.

not to me. so much more. they are the stuff dreams are made of. they represent entrepreneurship. success against all odds. they are the "tipping point" of digital cinema.

PS - Elvis and Mr. Bond want to kick your ass.

[M Taylor]

Jesus, it's just a camera.

Sony F23 is just a camera, RED is special. We all know the history of RED and it is unique. It's OK to get excited about technology...

[Roberto B]

Jesus, it's just a camera.ehehehehe.. good one.. your quote is doing a lot of success.. a special one.. your quote.. the quote.. :)

[Mardi_Gras]

not to me. so much more. they are the stuff dreams are made of. they represent entrepreneurship. success against all odds. they are the "tipping point" of digital cinema.

I'm getting all "googly-eyed" reading this, Mark... And its all your fault!:sad:


PS - Elvis and Mr. Bond want to kick your ass.

Classic!:)

[Dalibor Fencl]

... I see some day Mr. Jannard's Prague model exhibited in the National Technical Museum in Prague, the very museum I visited dozens of times as a little boy. And when my grandson will ask me about the name, I will answer:
"Well, this great man, just loved this great city." - And I will be proud as well.
.....

I can support it.

[planet e]

as an owner of an Edison phonograph and several magic lanterns, there's nothing wrong with revering a bit of history. every new technology becomes an old technology eventually, with collectors and a following. RED will be no different--it will go the way of the phantoscope, the microret, the vitagraph.

the what, you say?

i have been here: http://www.magiclanterns.org/
it is the life's work of a well-heeled retired texas oil man and can be visited by invitation only, for the true lovers of imaging history. i think jim jannard should pay this guy a visit--you will meet a kindred spirit and you will be amazed by the spectacle that mr. judson has created. it's a marvel!

[NateWeaver]

I should take a moment to say that I've done my own share of defending this camera against the naysayers.


not to me. so much more. they are the stuff dreams are made of.

I suppose, but that's kind of the problem I'm talking about.

When I was in my teens and 20's, I spent lot of time thinking about my career wishing I had access to this camera or that edit system, thinking that IF I owned them, my work would magically be amazing and all my problems would be over. Having access to the high-end gear would be my "next step". That thinking held me back.

To me, its this thinking that makes a camera choice an emotional one. To Jim and crew, it's emotional because they've probably put it first above friends (and maybe family) for 2 years now. THAT I can understand being a bit attached to. But being attached to a camera because you think it's going to make your work better? That's my point.

I should also mention I'm a bit subject to what I mention above...I want the camera, I have an order in, and I think it will make my work better (or maybe the word is "more palatable")

But really, who makes my or your work better? Or conversely, who makes it bad? Myself, or a camera? That's why I'm against emotional attachments, (or at least trying to keep them somewhat in check)




they represent entrepreneurship. success against all odds. they are the "tipping point" of digital cinema.


Absolutely. When people bring about the democratization of filmmaking and bringing down the barriers, that is worth pause and praise.

[Jarred Land]

it's good to hear that Nate appears to be somewhat alone in his opinions of this.. We put our hearts and soul into these cameras and it really is satisfying to see people "get it" and be just as passionate as we are along this journey. As Mark said, its part of what makes RED so special.

[NateWeaver]

Jarred,

I "get it". Always have. I'm behind what you've done enough to have suffered some good natured ridicule at the hands of my professional peers...

Please don't make this Nate vs. the board. I was trying to share a hard lesson when it comes to emotion and work (and gear).

And for the record, I admire the Red team's steadfastness under adverse conditions and opinion.

[Rudi Herbert]

Will the replacement cameras have the old serial # stamped on them? Even if with an asterisk or a small "second generation" sign of some sort? If it were me, I know I would fell a lot better letting go of my baby if I could see that familiar number on the side of the camera whenever I look at it...

[Bill Goehring]

Will the replacement cameras have the old serial # stamped on them? Even if with an asterisk or a small "second generation" sign of some sort? If it were me, I know I would fell a lot better letting go of my baby if I could see that familiar number on the side of the camera whenever I look at it...



2- We will replace all cameras serial #1-100 at N/C. *The replacements will be designated by an X (Serial #10X). Since many of these cameras are in service, this replacement process will be done during, or after, the month of January, at the discretion of the owner.
Jim

Jim has already addressed this.

[Gabi]

Jarred,

I "get it". Always have. I'm behind what you've done enough to have suffered some good natured ridicule at the hands of my professional peers...

Please don't make this Nate vs. the board. I was trying to share a hard lesson when it comes to emotion and work (and gear).

And for the record, I admire the Red team's steadfastness under adverse conditions and opinion.

It sure doesn't sound like you get it the way you instantly peed all over Jonas and his heart felt message. Bravo to Jarred for sticking up for customers that choose to have a little emotion and get excited.

[Joe Carney]

It sure doesn't sound like you get it the way you instantly peed all over Jonas and his heart felt message. Bravo to Jarred for sticking up for customers that choose to have a little emotion and get excited.

Nate didn't pee on anybody. Just disagreed and made a very harmless observation.
Remember he doesn't have his camera yet and hasn't had the transforming experience that seems to come to so many with ownership. So cut him and others like us some slack until we are officially part of the 'club'.


He's a great guy and I won't stand by and see people attack him a without saying something.

I'm fully aware we are witnessing history here, and love being part of it.
I love all the hype (that's not really hype) that surrounds the Red phenomenom. But lets leave some room for differing opinions.

As for the other guy referencing his grandma? Try practicing what you preach.

Joe C.

[Jarred Land]

lets play nice kids... Nate did point out Jonas directly and at least in my opinion was trying to devalue his statement... in both his first two posts, which is why i said what i said, and which is why others said what they said.

But thats just my opinion, and as Zeke pointed out, we all can have our opinions... Just dont get mad if people dont agree with your disagreement.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Forget museum. Hopefully those first 100 cameras will still be working 25 years from now. That would be the true expression of the revolution, when a digital camera is still relevant (after a few upgrades) years later.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I actually had someone offer me $100,000 for #19 recently and I hate to admit it but I thought about it - that's a lot of money and I have a family. That said, the more I considered it, the more the idea of giving up #19 and what it represents just felt terrible in my gut.

I would love to at least have the engraved side plate to mount on my wall, hint, hint...

[Omnius]

Jesus, it's just a camera.

Wow.
You have less tact than I do.
I never thought that was possible.

I have to disagree with you though.
It's not 'just a camera'

it's THE Camera!

hehe

[Jonas Nyström]

I think this thread is going out of our hands - way out of proportion. Now it's like kind of free for all against Nate. I don't like the bashing. My suggestion; just drop it, get back to work. We all made our points clear.

[chuck colburn]

Mayby some of those first cameras could go to film schools or the like.

[SIRAJ KUMKHE]

HOPE THOS 100 pc's finish very fast cause my Boss waiting his oreder i think 2Red to be delivered..i have to learn something here Preparing for red arrive