A RED 50mm F.9 lense?

[Zack Birlew]

I was in my cinematography class on Monday and I forgot to post this earlier. My teacher, Michel Hugo, was telling us about the only lense he's ever fallen in love with. He said that it was a 50mm F0.9 lense and that it was just amazing, he could do almost anything with it. He first got it from the head of the studio and that guy kept it in a safe because it was such a great lense and there was the only one ever made. He said that years later it was bought by Panavision and he never heard about it again and that every day since then he regrets not trying to come up with some Mission Impossible-style plan to steal it.

Well, this sounds like it was one rockin' lense and, because we were learning about super speed lenses that day, I think it would really dig into the super speed lense market if an F1.4 is considered a super speed. Just a thought for the RED team for future lenses.

[chuck colburn]

Hi Jack,
Is your teacher the same Michel Hugo who shot a lot of episodic Tv for about 40 years? He might have been talking about the Canon 50mm f.95 lens. It was mainly used on the Canon series 7 range finder bodies. It was so large around it blocked one corner of the viewing window! Some of these lenses were adapted for cine use in an attempt to get more light to the film plane as ASA 100 was fast film back in the sixties. And at almost two stops (one and five sixths if I remember the progression right) faster then a f1.8 (a very high speed cine lens for it's day) it was useable in some low light situations.
Here's a site comparing the Canon to the Leitz Noctolux.

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0099xZ

Study hard and good luck in your career.

Chuck

I forgot to add that this might be a mote point as it could be some other lens altogeather!

[JohnF]

Stanley Kubrick's film Barry Lyndon used a 50mm f0.7 lens!!! (this set an interesting challenge for the focus pullers)

It was able to film a number of setups under candle light!

Read more from this page (http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/sk/ac/len/page1.htm)

And yes I would like this lens too! (Go on RED team I know you like a challenge;) )

JohnF

[Deanan]

The canon is quite a bit soft and has a lot falloff compared to the Noctilux.
I used one briefly and didn't like it at all. The Noctilux is by far my favorite M lense although it some conditions the bokeh can get really funky. There are a couple specialty lenses like the rodenstock heligon and a kowa that are f1 and below. The Rayxar 50mm at f.7 is the fastest I've seen. I have/had a couple of these lenses but because some were built for xray machines or older tv cameras, they tend to have really funky coatings/optics or very odd
back focal distances (some are just a few mm) so they're only useful for macro type work.

Deanan

[Zack Birlew]

Yes, Chuck, he's done a ton of stuff and he always jokes about it too! :)

As John mentioned, a lens like this could be amazing in very low light conditions and I think that's what Hugo was talking about with it being so flexible.

[chuck colburn]

Hey Jack,

Your fortunate to have such an instructor. A man such as him has been there and seen it all. So gather all that you can.
But I still want to know what the lens is! lol

Chuck

[Milan Nikolic]

A dumb question for connoisseurs,
Why now they are rarely producing fast lenses below 1,4f?

[PaulClements]

A dumb question for connoisseurs,
Why now they are rarely producing fast lenses below 1,4f?

I would imagine because they can only really be used in low light conditions, by making them so fast they probably lose some of the qualities when alot of light enters them, whereas a 1.4 is suitable for most light. Making a set of primes that relates colourwise to the 1.4's so that you can use them in conjunction would probably be quite difficult. People would most likely prefer to use the normal lense and light the scene well. Therefore there wouldn't be much call for a lense that is only suitable for one light condition and not a great enough market to invest the time and effort in.

This is my guess by the way so don't take it as gospel

However with 1500ish people as possible customers perhaps one of the lense producers might look into it as a specialized market, they would also be very good for underwater shooting I would think.

[JohnF]

I'm a low-light shooter and I want as many photons hitting the imaging device as is possible!

So I would be definitely be interested in having a 50mm at anything less than f1.4.

There is so much shooting material out there when you have that much light gathering capacity both in the natural world and the human world!

Though focus does become a bit of a bugger with DOF being what it would be at say f0.8

JohnF

[Dan Hudgins]

The Super Farron lens has been around for a long time it is f/0.87 and comes in various focal lengths.

Here is a link about the Super Farron f/0.87 T/1.0 lens,

http://home.flash.net/~otd/super.htm

Have the mount marked every inch for distances closer than 9 feet, and use a tape to focus.

Dan

[JohnF]

Dan,

Thanks for that info, very interesting indeed.

JohnF

[Tonaci Tran]

WOW. great post. fast lens 101 lesson.

[betty schaefer]

i guess the 'lengthening' of the flange focal distance due to the ir filter/chip cover: lens/air/chip cover/air/(microprisms?)/sensor has already been taken into consideration..no?

[chuck colburn]

i guess the 'lengthening' of the flange focal distance due to the ir filter/chip cover: lens/air/chip cover/air/(microprisms?)/sensor has already been taken into consideration..no?

Hey Betty,

One would assume this because if not, then you lenses would not reach infinity focus. The shorter the focal length the more critical this compensated FFD becomes.

Chuck

[betty schaefer]

well as RED is manufacturing their own sensors they could cover the sensor with a dome port ... i'm being silly again :) ... but i absolutely understand your point.

i doubt RED designs their own lenses (meaning in code V or zemax). i'm sure they choose existing designs (like picking one in lensview) and rehouse it..but i might be wrong..as usual :)

[chuck colburn]

I wonder what kind of IR filtration the Red camera is using. If it's absorption, than the filter might be fairly thick. On the other hand if it's a cold mirror mounted at a forty five degree angle (like a beam splitter pellicule) the glass would only need to be a few thousandts thick. Either way the flange depth is going to increase APPX. one third the thickness of the filter.

Chuck

Oops!
Got that backwards. A cold mirror reflects the visable and passes the IR. Should have said hot mirror.

[chuck colburn]

Hello Dan,

Your breadth of optical knowledge is as astounding as it is informative. About the Farron series of lenses, I poked around the site a bit and did not see what size format they are intened for. Might have missed it though! Anyhow reading your pieces brings back memories of the people I worked with over the years at various optical/camera houses. I was so lucky in the sense that every company had at least one highly experienced person in the optical/mechanical field that took me under their wing an imparted some of their knowledge (quite often more then I could absorb all at once).
It almost makes me want to move back to LA La land and go back to work. Except for the part of having to miss salmon and steel head fishing on the Rogue river here in southern Oregon. LOL

Thank you, it's been stimulating.

Chuck

[Tom Lowe]

Dan, thanks for all that information. I have been dreaming about being able to shoot with high-speed lenses, ala Barry Lyndon, because my feature is shot entirely during magic hours and at night with minimal lighting. So I hope some smart guys like you figure out how to make this work well with the RED. I guess all these 1st ACs who've been pulling focus on 1/3 HD chips better sharpen up their skills!!

[JohnF]

Focus pullers beware!
For Barry Lyndon focus pulling could not be done the "traditional way" at f0.7, too may soft shots on moving actors. The FP on that shoot had to devise a method of maintaining focus - which was to mount a video camera over the stage and place a grid over its viewing monitor then measure all the marks and
then pull focus by wherever the subject was on the gird!

My point being, as mentioned by Dan earlier on, this is a practical lens for infinity work (landscapes, helicopter shots etc) where everything will be in focus . For closer work this type of lens will become a real challenge to get right.

JohnF