My Diary For A EPIC X Stage 4 Delivery [Archive]

Iain Philpott

09-16-2011, 03:33 PM

Hi Guys,

My name is Iain Philpott. I have been a member of this forum for some time. I have sat back, read lots but never posted anything. I am a stills guy, well respected, shooting beauty and fashion in London. I have directed commercials for Pantene & L'Oreal but got really disillusioned by various factors too long to go into here (in this post). Continued with my stills and have thoroughly enjoyed the advent of the 5D and the film making possibilities I have been able to offer my clients. I won't hear any negative comments about the 5D - it has supplied my clients (online) with material that they love and is more than acceptable for what they require. While not diluting the capabilities of the 5D I wholly except it's downfalls which is why I am trying to place an order for an EPIC X.

I would love to hear from people what I should include within my order when I am able too and what I should not. For example I have invested a bucket load of money in Redrock - would the EPIC X function on 15mm rails and the Redrock Mattebox?

Many many thanks and I will keep this updated as and when I know anything on my order. As it stands at the moment it is as follows,

jimhare

09-17-2011, 03:18 AM

Hi Iain,

Glad you posted and broke the ice! Would never say anything negative about the 5D, sounds like you use it for what it does best, fantastic stills and amazing motion for the price and form factor. And moving up to Epic for uncompromsed motion is a fantastic move.

As far as Epic accessories go, first and foremost would be the Canon mount, so you can use what I assume is a very impressive collection of Canon glass.

You can definitely get 15mm rails and use all of your existing Redrock toys.

I have just placed an order for a bunch of Epic stuff, including the 19mm quick release, SSDs, cables etc.

The truth is you don't need a great deal of additional equipment. As long as you can power the Epic, mount a lens, monitor what you're shooting and support it with a good fluid head, there isn't much else you need.

I have shot on the Red 1 for a few years and 80% of the time I have it stripped down to nothing, with minimal accessories. When I do build it up it's usually with a matte box, follow focus, wireless mic receivers, and NDs.

Is there something in particular you want to do with it where you may need additional or unique accessories? As you have no doubt discovered, the community here is very open with advice and happy to help.

KETCH ROSSi

09-17-2011, 03:52 AM

Welcome to Reduser Iain,
even so you have been here for a while, since you didn't post, no one had a chance to do so... ;)

I toto did came form the world of Still Photography, and the 1Ds was my first Digital, and now still have the 1Ds III, while enjoying the use of my "L" series Canon glass on one of our Epic M,
so yeah the Red Electronic Canon mount is an absolute must... This is why...

Canon's motors, especially on the 1D bodies make is it a superior combination, a little better then on the 5D, but on the EPIC... Well, be prepared to see an improvement.

What I also would suggest is a light wait set up, and even so I shoot Cine Style, and have set up one of the cameras with Full Cine gear, one of them is almost always set up in a very light
system, using a GITZO sticks, one is the GIANT and the other is the standard, with 100mm Bowl adapter and a Miller Compass 15 fluid head, perfect combination.

The RED PRO clip on MB is also a must, to stay lightweight with Cine glass, or with use on Canon glass, just use what I supposed you have been using all along, screw ons.

Accessorizing your Epic based on your style of shooting and needs will be a must, so at the end only you really know what is that you need, but I will be sure to get the EVF, and the Spinner,
with Top mount, few Nato railings, and a side handle grip of course, for using the Red Volts, and have the camera set up as you would with a DSLR.

Just be prepared to strengthen your wrest and arm, as, even I which have been accustom to shoot the 1Ds with the 400L 2.8, and the 200L 2.0 hands free, have come to appreciate the solid body and weight of the
EPIC combined with accessories and Lens, which even with a 85L 1.2 makes it a nice work out, by the end of a shoot... ;)

There is literally so much that you can accessorized your EPIC with that pages can be filled up, yet not even touching precisely what your real need is.

But I imagine that elaborating as the replies come in, in what is your real need and what you look to shoot with EPIC, then a clearer view can be had and a better suggestion on accessories be made.

Liam Hall

09-17-2011, 04:12 AM

Good advice Ketch and Jim. Apart from what has been mentioned I'd get a copy of Adobe Production Premium CS5.5 if you haven't already got one.

And if you need any help on one of your lingerie shoots give me a shout:)

Iain Philpott

09-17-2011, 02:10 PM

Hi Guys,

Thank you for your replies! I've even had a PM of a guy in the UK about to take delivery of his Epic X willing to collaborate on some tests! Truly awesome - thank you. Couple of questions sparked by your posts. Liam Hall - why do you suggest Adobe Premium CS5? I have Final Cut, does RED footage work better with Adobe? Ketch what is roughly the weight of your rigs? I am about to purchase a new tripod and would love to buy something that covers me for both my 5D rig and a future Epic. I was considering a Sachtler DV12? Is that going to work?

Many thanks in advance for any replies.

Iain Philpott

09-17-2011, 02:40 PM

Oh and one last thing. I shoot a lot of handheld. Hate using the Canon lenses (despite there quality) on the 5D. I have been using all my old super fast Nikon glass. Manual lenses with a decent amount of friction. Interestingly as a by-the-by I have recently been using the Nikon 85 1.4 over my Canon 85 1.2 on stills shoots - just has a nicer, better bokeh, slightly more organic feel to it.

So to the question - do I go for PL RED Primes or Zeiss Compact Primes? I'm sure this is opening a massive can of worms........looking for gut feel simple answers............

Liam Hall

09-17-2011, 02:49 PM

Iain Philpott

09-17-2011, 02:56 PM

Yes, Adobe has native support for RED.

Sachtler make great tripods (I've owned several), whether the DV12 is right for you is dependent on the weight of your rig - the rule-of-thumb being to chose a tripod where max load is twice the weight of the rig. If you like Nikon glass it might be worth waiting for the Nikon mount.

Jeepers - 'twice the weight of the rig'? Does that not take me out of the DV12's £3.7k into £9/10k? What tripod would you recommend? Re the Nikon glass - Do you think 35mm stills glass can actually get the best from 5K footage?

Liam Hall

09-18-2011, 01:48 AM

Jeepers - 'twice the weight of the rig'? Does that not take me out of the DV12's £3.7k into £9/10k? What tripod would you recommend? Re the Nikon glass - Do you think 35mm stills glass can actually get the best from 5K footage?

It's only a rule-of-thumb. On my documentary jobs I'll use Epic + Canon lenses on a Sachtler FSB8, which is only rated to 10KG. But, it's super lightweight, which is perfect for me as I have to carry it all!

How heavy's your 5D rig? The DV12 is rated for a payload of 20KG - that's quite a lot in DSLR-la-land, but nothing in cine land. Again, it depends on what you're sticking on the rig and your style of shooting - how mobile you need to be, how many on the camera crew etc. Assuming you're not using large cine zooms, you should be okay with a DV12, but you do need to weigh your current rig and factor in the additional weight of Epic and the modules/accessories you choose.

Yes, 35mm stills glass can get the best resolution with Epic. It can with a 1DSMkII - CP2s are rehoused ZFs/ZEs after all... ...The question is whether cine glass can be used on the type of shoot you do.

Iain Philpott

09-21-2011, 01:51 PM

16752

What a week! I decide that EPIC X is the way to go. 'Top of the range and will ship before Scarlet' - future proof job done! Hold on a moment, now Scarlet is announced and that we can order very soon. So will that come before Stage 4 EPIC? Also if it comes with an S35 sensor.......will be cheaper. It all seemed so simple a few days ago..........

Malvin Ng

10-01-2011, 09:04 AM

Waiting for the Stage 4 to be available here too >.<

Paul Leeming

10-01-2011, 09:32 AM

G Lap

10-01-2011, 10:36 AM

Hi Iain,

I notice that you contacted RED. com to enquire about an Epic order. I don't know if you are aware but there is RED Europe (located at Pinewood Studios) and you can order most things RED from them (although, as you've discovered, not yet an Epic Stage 4 :) ). If you ask Alan Piper there nicely he might let you take a look at their Epic M, if it's not out on location.

If you haven't yet handled an Epic it's worth doind so for all sorts of reasons, not least to get an idea of it's weight for handheld work (hint...heavier than a 1D series with large lens and even more so compared to a 5D with lens, imho of course). Scarlet was going to be lighter but specs might have changed and won't now be known until November 3rd. Incidentally, UK orders for Scarlet will be available online via the RED.com store .

David Wyatt

10-01-2011, 10:44 AM

Iain Philpott

10-03-2011, 02:43 AM

Iain,

if you're using Nikon glass on your 5D MkII already then I assume you're using mount adaptors? If so, you won't need to change a thing as you can just keep the mount adaptor on your lens and mate it straight to the Red Canon EF mount.

Or wait for the Nikon mount, which will come at a later date.

I'm eyeing the Miller Compass 25 fluid head and some CF Miller Solo sticks as a lightweight (in cinema terms) tripod package for solo work.

HTH!

Cheers from Tokyo,

Paul :)

Thank you all REDUSER members for all your tips and advice. I am really thankful for it. Tripod wise I note your option to go the Miller route. Any advise here - I have been looking at the Satchler DV12. In an ideal world I would love to get a new tripod that would cover both my heavier 5D rigs as well as an EPIC set up. Anyone know this Sachtler?

Many thanks

Iain Philpott

10-03-2011, 02:46 AM

Iain Philpott

10-03-2011, 02:53 AM

Hi Iain,

The Red Nikon mount should start shipping in November with production ramping up in December, so I imagine by the time you get your Epic-X the Nikon mount will be shipping in good amounts for you to use with all your lovely Nikon glass :smiley:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?63377-Module-Ship-Dates....

All the best,

Hi David,

I so nearly sold all of my Nikon kit including lenses when I switched to Canon Digital many years ago. I have the following Nikon glass, in your experience with the EPIC sensor do any of these perform better or worse?

35mm 1.4
50mm 1.2
85mm 1.4
105mm 2.8 Macro
180mm 2.8
300mm 2.8

And last question, would I see or feel a significant image improvement by going for Zeiss Compact Primes. I have sort of discounted RED Primes just because of size and weight or is that a mistake to?

Many thanks

Iain

Martin Widerberg

10-03-2011, 03:20 AM

Hi Iain
Welcome

The Nikon G-lenses are something you could consider.
Allstar and Optitek does Nikon mounts for Epic with iris control.
The IS function on some of the Nikon and Canon lenses together with Epic focus control is something I'm really looking forward to.
But if you want to pull focus by hand you could just stick with your nice collection of old Nikkor lenses. You could add the 28/2.8 ais and the 24/ 2.0.
Or have a a look at the 14-24.

Interesting times

Brett Clements

10-03-2011, 04:13 AM

Hi mate

Never look back. No need to. I've shot the Sony PDX, the Z1P and the X1, and the X3. The last two Sony models were 'crisp as'. Unless you had a Letus mount, you couldn't get depth or add glass. And Letus was a rip. Then along came the d90 and then the 5DMII. And, no doubt about it, the 5DMII bloody mugged it all. Not in quality though. Only in perception. Throw some X1 footage against some 5DMII footage (1080) and the X1 mugs it. Every, single time. For quality. At 2k. Red Digital Cinema is a company that's invested in passion not price. I have no doubt the RED Epic will blow everything I have shot out of the water. And that's quite a lot. www.platinumhd.tv. Nah.

Iain Philpott

11-07-2011, 10:35 AM

Having watched (or rather tried too!) the Scarlet announcement I did wonder for a while whether Scarlet would, for a lot less money, be the camera of my dreams and be available sooner than Epic Stage 4 but........ Having studied all the stats on it, weighing up my genuine need of a camera covering all my motion 'beauty' needs (slow-mo swinging hair etc) and fantastic stills pulled from possibly 96fps etc I just don't think it will cut it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me I still need to wait for my EPIC. Scarlet is an incredible camera but I think the stills fashion boys and magazines will be still be shooting on EPIC?

Iain Philpott

12-19-2011, 06:20 PM

After huge deliberation I have decided to wait on my order for an Epic. Had some incredible help and advice on this forum from clearly some very expert Red users. I have also felt at times troubled by some posters of just blind focused opinion that Red is greater than every other camera out there which as the majority of us know is just not true. I was particularly upset by the whole Phillip Bloom affair. I was on that thread on the night he was banned and it was not pretty. Maybe moderators need to step in far quicker. Anyhow I believe you pick the right camera package for the job you are shooting. It might well be Red but equally as in my case at the moment it could be a 5D. I am shooting in Cape Town in January and have had some great response and feedback from Red users and will be renting an Epic kit with an experienced user to really help me grasp both the camera and the post work flow. I hope in February to post some footage/stills here for some constructive critic.

Any tips on gaining the most from my shoot would be gratefully received. I'm shooting motion but equally the stills from motion are just as important. Everything I've read on here suggests I shoot 96fps, 5K at the best compression code (what would you recommend?). Does anyone have any other tips?

I know for what I want a camera to do Red Epic is my number one (and only-Scarlet can't do it, RedOne nearly can) option. Based on my real world experience in January I will either place an order .............or wait for Dragon's rumoured low light capability. Or do I wait for Epic 645?!!!!!!!!! With Leica S2 glass - now that for me as a stills guy, Epic 645 is really exciting. I'd place an order right now!

Brian Iannone

12-19-2011, 06:32 PM

At the bottom of the email screenshot Iain posted...

This e-mail is the property of RED Digital Cinema Camera Company. It is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Distribution or copying of this e-mail, or the information contained herein, to anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited.

I'm just saying... ;)

Iain Philpott

12-19-2011, 06:37 PM

At the bottom of the email screenshot Iain posted...

I'm just saying... ;)

Sorry you have just lost me! Please explain?

Brian Iannone

12-19-2011, 06:47 PM

Sorry you have just lost me! Please explain?

In your first post in this thread, you posted a screenshot (http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16611&d=1316212322) from an email you received from a Bomb Squad rep at RED. At the bottom of the email, there's a confidentiality disclosure (as there is with any email sent from RED). It states:

This e-mail is the property of RED Digital Cinema Camera Company. It is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Distribution or copying of this e-mail, or the information contained herein, to anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited.

I was just pointing out that taking a screenshot of the email and uploading it publicly to the REDuser forum goes against the confidentially disclosure... However, I tried saying it in an amusing way as I didn't wan't people to think I'm trying to cause a problem here. Because I'm not.. I was just pointing out that little disclosure.

But, never mind that... Great thread. :)

Iain Philpott

12-19-2011, 06:59 PM

In your first post in this thread, you posted a screenshot (http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16611&d=1316212322) from an email you received from a Bomb Squad rep at RED. At the bottom of the email, there's a confidentiality disclosure (as there is with any email sent from RED). It states:

I was just pointing out that taking a screenshot of the email and uploading it publicly to the REDuser forum goes against the confidentially disclosure... However, I tried saying it in an amusing way as I didn't wan't people to think I'm trying to cause a problem here. Because I'm not.. I was just pointing out that little disclosure.

But, never mind that... Great thread. :)

OMG! Now I get where you are coming from. Are you actually being serious here? IF there was something even vaguely controversial about that screenshot I would not have posted it. It is people like you who when there is nothing there fan the flames that create the very situation that got Philip Bloom banned and he gave back his camera. You find it now appropriate to post those comments some three months after the start of the thread? After neither anyone else or more importantly a moderator told me I was wrong to post it.

I am seriously shocked. You need to take some time and reconsider what you wrote?

Brian Iannone

12-19-2011, 07:26 PM

OMG! Now I get where you are coming from. Are you actually being serious here? IF there was something even vaguely controversial about that screenshot I would not have posted it. It is people like you who when there is nothing there fan the flames that create the very situation that got Philip Bloom banned and he gave back his camera. You find it now appropriate to post those comments some three months after the start of the thread? After neither anyone else or more importantly a moderator told me I was wrong to post it.

I am seriously shocked. You need to take some time and reconsider what you wrote?

I'm not saying that there was anything controversial about the screenshot. And as I said in my previous post, I'm not trying to cause a problem here... I posted what I did because I just saw this thread. You ask me if I find it appropriate to post my comments three months after the start of the thread, yet you were the one who brought this thread back up with your post at 6:20 PM.

All I'm saying is that even though an email may not contain any controversial information, if there's a confidentiality disclosure at the bottom, I think that it should be respected. You may be shocked by hearing that, but I do not regret and/or need to reconsider what I wrote.

Philip Bloom's situation has absolutely nothing to do with this. His issues are in a completely different category. Please do not speak as though you understand what happened, and more importantly, do not place me in the same category as the people who flamed-up the Bloom-related threads.

Just to rewrap: I was simply pointing out a confidentiality disclosure at the bottom of the email screenshot you uploaded. You take it any way you want to. I wrote my post respectfully and my intention was not to cause any issues. It was an informational comment, and that's all.

Iain Philpott

12-19-2011, 07:30 PM

I'm not saying that there was anything controversial about the screenshot. And as I said in my previous post, I'm not trying to cause a problem here... I posted what I did because I just saw this thread. You ask me if I find it appropriate to post my comments three months after the start of the thread, yet you were the one who brought this thread back up with your post at 6:20 PM.

All I'm saying is that even though an email may not contain any controversial information, if there's a confidentiality disclosure at the bottom, I think that it should be respected. You may be shocked by hearing that, but I do not regret and/or need to reconsider what I wrote.

Philip Bloom's situation has absolutely nothing to do with this. His issues are in a completely different category. Please do not speak as though you understand what happened, and more importantly, do not place me in the same category as the people who flamed-up the Bloom-related threads.

Just to rewrap: I was simply pointing out a confidentiality disclosure at the bottom of the email screenshot you uploaded. You take it any way you want to. I wrote my post respectfully and my intention was not to cause any issues. It was an informational comment, and that's all.

If your intention was not to cause any issues you could have sent me a PM? Enough - subject closed.

Brian Iannone

12-19-2011, 07:37 PM

If your intention was not to cause any issues you could have sent me a PM? Enough - subject closed.

No, I couldn't. The point of a forum is to publicly inform people of information and participate in discussions. Because I posted in this thread informing you of the confidentially disclosure at the bottom of the email, other people may now notice that and realize that their conversations with RED and other companies should remain private. Not only do you now know, but others do also. That's what's great about forums. It's the public sharing of information that makes the system work.

By the way, here's a previous post (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?19835-Some-ramblings-on-how-to-(not)-behave-on-Reduser&p=299940&viewfull=1#post299940) by one of the moderators. Notice the "Don't publish private e-mails" part. So next time, don't assume that others are trying to cause problems when they're simply making informational statements.

Don't

Publish private e-mails
Quote long posts in full length
Attack other users or get otherwise personal. Don't say things you wouldn't say to someone face-to-face
Make fun of grammar or spelling mistakes. Not everyone on this forum is a native English speaker
Reply to spam messages that make it through the system once in a while — simply use the little http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/style/buttons/report.gifbutton to alert a moderator
Resort to questioning the professionalism of a poster just because you disagree or s/he had trouble with a camera
Send html attachments - this will get you automatically banned (I learned this the hard way)
Hide behind anonymity. Let us know your real name, where you live and maybe your RED number, too.
Question RED's loyalty to its customers

Iain Philpott

12-19-2011, 07:54 PM

I always thought this thread would become a great point of reference for stills guys shooting motion in the same transition as me of looking at what tech was out there to move them on in servicing their clients. Worked really well until the thread was hijacked by a comment and screenshot observation of the very first post three months ago. Your comments make not one jot of difference to it so far as no moderator or employee of RED has had any issue with what was posted. If you are taking on the role of Moderator please will you apply to RED for that position and may RED direct everyone of that appointment. But like other threads that have been attacked this one is now dead. No one will go past the 'handbags at dawn' comments so I will not waste any more time posting here. You could have taken a better approach.

Marcos Montenegro

12-19-2011, 08:05 PM

Ian, Brian:

Please let's get back to the thread's original objective; such a waste of energy what both are doing.

Ian- I'm a still pro that is making the jump to Scarlet-X from a Nikon world and chose a set of Zeiss ZF.2 glass with an Optitek Nikon mount for my Scarlet-X. I can't wait! Please let me know about your SA trip with your rented Epic.

Brian- My brand new PC that I ordered from CyberPower came broken; my liquid cooling GTX590 was dislodged from the ASUS motherboard and IT WAS SUCH A BUMMER! I returned it.

Marcos

Brian Iannone

12-19-2011, 08:18 PM

Please let's get back to the thread's original objective; such a waste of energy what both are doing.

When you're my age, you don't need to worry about losing energy while making your point. =D

But anyway, I agree with you in that I believe, at this point, it's in everyone's best interest to return to the thread's original objective. As much as I would like to post another comment to Iain's most recent post, I will refrain from doing so.

Brian- My brand new PC that I ordered from CyberPower came broken; my liquid cooling GTX590 was dislodged from the ASUS motherboard and IT WAS SUCH A BUMMER! I returned it.

That is indeed a huge bummer! The issue with buying prebuilt systems is that if something goes wrong, you need to send back the entire unit. When you build one yourself, you're able to troubleshoot the individual components that are malfunctioning and replace those, which is why I prefer doing that. If you ever decide to build your own PC, feel free to contact me with questions. I'd be happy to assist! :)

Iain Philpott

12-19-2011, 08:21 PM

Hi Marcos,

Could not agree with you more. This I felt was a great thread for transitional still guy's which was always my intention. But said gentlemen has posted on another thread tonight that REDONE is obsolete. As a side reference to all of this I'm struggling on that one because it shoots pics at a higher rate than Scarlet? I object to the way in which this thread has been hijacked over something as silly as a screenshot that no moderator or employee from RED has raised.

Back to your post.... Just before you envelope the CP2's, Jannard posted a fantastic thread yesterday on lens testing. I was all set on the Zeiss CP's, now, for less money (OK they are heavier) the RED primes are ticking boxes for me. Take a look. As far as I'm aware they did not check any Nikon glass. At the moment on my 5D I'm using nothing but Nikon glass. Can't comment on your computer issues as I am completely Mac!

Brian Iannone

12-19-2011, 08:27 PM

But said gentlemen has posted on another thread tonight that REDONE is obsolete. As a side reference to all of this I'm struggling on that one because it shoots pics at a higher rate than Scarlet?

You're kidding, right...? Now you're incorporating what I said about a completely different topic from another thread (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?69047-Future-of-Red-One) in here, too? This is ridiculous.

Iain Philpott

12-19-2011, 08:34 PM

No I'm not kidding. If that is not what you said then I apologise. I am a really nice guy and I'm sure you are too. We should move this to a PM. Going to bed now but really happy to have a telephone conversation with you. It's ridiculous. We clearly have to agree to differ. PM me with your email or phone number?

Warmest regards

Iain

Brian Iannone

12-19-2011, 08:45 PM

Forums can be so amusing at times... :)

Jannard

12-19-2011, 08:46 PM

Calm down boys...

Jim

Brian Iannone

12-19-2011, 08:53 PM

Calm down boys...

Jim

My deepest apologies Mr. Jannard. I'm being completely serious now. I am honestly very sorry that I caused you to have to post here. I have the utmost respect for you, your company and this website. I truly apologize for writing what I did. Please believe me when I say that I had absolutely no intention of creating a disturbance in this forum.

Best regards,
Brian Iannone

Iain Philpott

12-19-2011, 09:04 PM

Calm down boys...

Jim

I've just been cleaning my teeth in the bathroom and an alert comes in from Jim. God darn it I have sparked up the computer (it's 4.53am here!) and ........well you have to when Jim gets on the line!

Apologies to Brian. Just..........just just! We clearly are as bloody minded as each other which in my my book is strangely warming. I actually think we would probably get on famously, despite his 18 years, and my 47 as two belligerent old gits (as they say here in Blighty) who would argue to the cows come home.

Brian at some point I'm sure we will meet up and I will buy you a drink. Both you and Jim have a fantastic Christmas and an extremely prosperous New Year with health and happiness.

Brian you hit the nail on the head, with toothpaste still in my mouth 'Forums can be so amusing at times'! God bless, Iainx

Brian Iannone

12-19-2011, 09:11 PM

I've just been cleaning my teeth in the bathroom and an alert comes in from Jim. God darn it I have sparked up the computer (it's 4.53am here!) and ........well you have to when Jim gets on the line!

Apologies to Brian. Just..........just just! We clearly are as bloody minded as each other which in my my book is strangely warming. I actually think we would probably get on famously, despite his 18 years, and my 47 as two belligerent old gits (as they say here in Blighty) who would argue to the cows come home.

Brian at some point I'm sure we will meet up and I will buy you a drink. Both you and Jim have a fantastic Christmas and an extremely prosperous New Year with health and happiness.

Brian you hit the nail on the head, with toothpaste still in my mouth 'Forums can be so amusing at times'! God bless, Iainx

I must admit, I had a good laugh after reading your post! =D The first two sentences and the last two are the best.

If I'm ever in London, I'll be sure to come by and meet you. I think we'd actually get along pretty well. :)

Ben Jackson

12-20-2011, 03:13 AM

I don't know about anyone else but I enjoyed this exchange immensely haha ;)

Ivan G

12-20-2011, 05:56 AM

:emote_popcorn:

Ben Jackson

12-20-2011, 05:57 AM

:emote_popcorn:

totally

Iain Philpott

12-20-2011, 10:37 AM

LOL's. Glad to have made you smile - hell it's Christmas!

I have booked my Epic in Cape Town with the very very helpful Caleb at Afterglow. He has come up with some pretty concrete things we are going to test for the best possible balance between stills and motion.

1.) I am going to shoot 5K 96fps 90 degree shutter (1/384sec)

2.) I am going to shoot HDRX with one track at 180 shutter (1/48sec) and one at 45 degree shutter (1/196 sec) all at 24fps

Anyone have any other ideas I should try please post. Any hints and tips?

Many thanks

Brian Iannone

12-20-2011, 10:51 AM

LOL's. Glad to have made you smile

Agreed.

I'm glad we both amused you all. :-)

Iain Philpott

12-20-2011, 11:04 AM

Agreed.

I'm glad we both amused you all. :-)

Hi Brian,

My iPhone going off by Jim in the bathroom did have me cracked up! I did read your very excellent post about download times of media. So as a very computer knowledgable guy any tips on combinations of RedCode, frame rates, shutter angles to get the best out of my test. Remember the key is that both the stills and the motion are equally important so it will be a compromise - just a question of the best one?

Brian Iannone

12-20-2011, 11:52 PM

Hi Brian,

My iPhone going off by Jim in the bathroom did have me cracked up! I did read your very excellent post about download times of media. So as a very computer knowledgable guy any tips on combinations of RedCode, frame rates, shutter angles to get the best out of my test. Remember the key is that both the stills and the motion are equally important so it will be a compromise - just a question of the best one?

Hey Iain. To be completely honest, while I'm knowledgeable about computer workstations/servers, storage systems, networking a few other computer science and IT-related topics, I'm not qualified enough to give recommendations regarding combinations of REDCODE, frame rates or shutter angles. I have actually been recently researching these things myself also!

I think that people like us who are moving into cinema, but come from the world of still photography care much more about the quality of every single frame in our footage. It's because of this that I find DSLR video to be so... Horrific. We tend to look at individual frames and compare them to the quality we get out of our still photos shot on DSLRs. And thankfully, RED's cameras produce single-frame quality that's absolutely incredible. I believe that the reason Mr. Jannard was able to create the amazing cameras that he and everyone at RED have created is because he comes from a still photography background. All these other companies like Canon, Sony, JVC and Panasonic are not being very successful at making 'good' cameras because they're focused too much on video. RED is focused on motion pictures. And that's something I think every RED user should be thankful for. I know I am. =)

So, that's just my little perspective on RED's cameras and the backgrounds of still photographers. I'm not exactly sure why I wrote all that, but, it's there now. :D

But anyway, back to your question... Is there anyone here who could get into the specifics of REDCODE, frame rate and shutter angle combinations in order to help us get the most out of our motion capture process?

Jason Von Drayco

12-29-2011, 07:08 PM

All these other companies like Canon, Sony, JVC and Panasonic are not being very successful at making 'good' cameras because they're focused too much on video.

Are you serious? Sony? F3 not very good? The F65 is not very successful at making video? It gives the epic more than a run for its money. some people are blind on these forums...

Brian Iannone

12-29-2011, 07:56 PM

Are you serious? Sony? F3 not very good? The F65 is not very successful at making video? It gives the epic more than a run for its money. some people are blind on these forums...

This discussion ended nearly three weeks ago...

Tell me, what Hollywood studios are shooting movies on Sony F3's? And the F65... Have you ever seen one in person? I have. And let me tell you, it's HUGE compared to the size of an EPIC. Because of this, many studios are going to be shooting their 3D films using RED's cameras instead.

But, I guess we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

paulherrin

12-29-2011, 08:08 PM

This discussion ended nearly three weeks ago...

Tell me, what Hollywood studios are shooting movies on Sony F3's? And the F65... Have you ever seen one in person? I have. And let me tell you, it's HUGE compared to the size of an EPIC. Because of this, many studios are going to be shooting their 3D films using RED's cameras instead.

But, I guess we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

brian, keep in mind there are different applications than cinema. many other systems perform quite well for certain tasks, albeit not always in a good price/performance range. believe it or not, not everyone wants raw 4k digital cinema footage. in any case, all things considered these other cameras make some pretty decent images. no, their resolution/detail and color fidelity does not always match the red or 35mm film - but that's not always as important as we like to think. i advise you step back, turn around, and look at the bigger picture. the epic is not the end all be all, neither is the dragon. red knows this - that is why they continue their progression.

in the grand scheme of things, there are way more important factors to our craft than the camera system used and pixel peeping between every single one. that being said, i've consistently observed and acquired the best results from the red cameras above any other camera i've ever used. i think it's one of the greatest camera systems on the planet. for cinematic purposes, red is definitely the way forward... and that's something to be excited about. but it's only the beginning of a new era, remember that - and try to open your mind to other perspectives. :)

Brian Iannone

12-29-2011, 08:51 PM

brian, keep in mind there are different applications than cinema. many other systems perform quite well for certain tasks, albeit not always in a good price/performance range. believe it or not, not everyone wants raw 4k digital cinema footage. in any case, all things considered these other cameras make some pretty decent images. no, their resolution/detail and color fidelity does not always match the red or 35mm film - but that's not always as important as we like to think. i advise you step back, turn around, and look at the bigger picture. the epic is not the end all be all, neither is the dragon. red knows this - that is why they continue their progression.

in the grand scheme of things, there are way more important factors to our craft than the camera system used and pixel peeping between every single one. that being said, i've consistently observed and acquired the best results from the red cameras above any other camera i've ever used. i think it's one of the greatest camera systems on the planet. for cinematic purposes, red is definitely the way forward... and that's something to be excited about. but it's only the beginning of a new era, remember that - and try to open your mind to other perspectives. :)

My mind is completely open to other perspectives. I wrote my post in regards to cinema cameras. If you are looking for a video camera, there are tons of great options to choose from. However, that's not what I was referring to.

paulherrin

12-29-2011, 09:37 PM

i'm not disagreeing with you, brian. just trying to promote peace :) my comments are as much for me as anyone else.

Brian Iannone

12-29-2011, 09:49 PM

i'm not disagreeing with you, brian. just trying to promote peace :) my comments are as much for me as anyone else.

Discussion is good. :D

paulherrin

12-29-2011, 10:07 PM

Discussion is good. :D

again, i agree :) we're cool... or i am anyways ;)

Brian Iannone

12-29-2011, 10:26 PM

again, i agree :) we're cool... or i am anyways ;)

LOL Cool too. =)

Jason Von Drayco

12-30-2011, 06:47 AM

Brian Iannone

12-30-2011, 05:30 PM

Yeah, ended 3 weeks ago, so has your mind change about sony not being good at making cameras? They f65 is big, yes, but damn, it can shoot a good image. Red is trailing there. Do you want me to list the things that other companies like SONY and CANON do better than red? my simple point is and always will be, Sony, JVC, Canon all understand video. They make amazing cameras. If you think F35 is a piece of shit, then you are a lost cause.

No need to get angry.

I'm saying that right now, in terms of cinema cameras, I believe that EPIC is a better choice than anything offered by all those other companies. That may change with Sony's release of the F65, but the F65 is not publicly available yet.

And even when the F65 is made available, I don't think it'll become very popular due to how large it is. From what I'm hearing, studios really like EPIC's size for use in 3D rigs. Many major films released now are being shot in 3D. Large cameras just add complexity and expense in producing the films. There have been countless articles and interviews with film producers who explain that a camera's size in indeed something that they find important.

Here's one example from a producer who's worked with both Sony F35s and EPICs.

CS: Of course, this isn't your first time working with 3D. How is the technology progressing? What has changed since the last "Resident Evil"?

Bolt: Cameras are getting smaller. We're about to start shooting this new "Resident Evil" and we're using the RED EPIC camera. It's about 50 percent smaller than the Sony F35s that we used on "Resident Evil 4" or even the ARRI Alexa that we used on "Three Musketeers." What that means is that there are certain camera rigs that you can make for 3D that you couldn't do before. It was just impossible. Steadicam in 3D is going to become easier. Basically, the cameras are becoming closer and closer to 2D and what you can do with them. It's all about ease of moment.

Source: http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=83106

I'm not saying all these other companies don't know how to make camera. I'm saying that all these other companies have been making cameras so far that, in my opinion, aren't as good as EPIC. Take James Cameron for example. He could use any camera in world that he wants, yet, he chose to order 50 EPICs. As I said in my previous posts, I think there's a reason that RED's cameras are so good. And it's because of that reason many people are choosing RED over all these other camera makers.

Iain Philpott

01-20-2012, 04:29 PM

OK, so I am shooting a big stills job in Cape Town at the moment. I have one of the biggest moments in my life so far, tomorrow morning. Shooting Epic for motion and stills. The stills in reality are more important than the motion. Nothing like the reality of a situation to make you focus up. Any tips on the best settings to get the best stills? Shooting close up beauty?

Iain Philpott

01-21-2012, 02:19 PM

What an experience. You read all about it. You see what other people produce but and it's a big 'but' you really have no idea, if you as a photographer need to produce stills from motion, just quite how fantastic this camera is until you do it for yourself. The style in which you shoot, the way in which you shoot and the way in which you configure an Epic to shoot in exactly the same way as you shoot with your 1DS.

I am blown away by it (despite having three key clips that are named,can be seen on the computer but nothing in them?). I would just like to pay a huge thanks to Caleb Heymann @Afterglow for his incredible help,support and fully kitted Epic kit here in Cape Town - book him! Having done lots of research I settled on two test routes for obtaining great motion and great stills. My conclusion is 96fps 5K is the way to go which, no disrespect to RED, proved to me that for beauty/fashion Scarlet just does not cut it for producing stills within motion of the arena that I work in. Having thought that Scarlet could possibly work for me on the 3rd November my mind is made up - Epic is the only way to go. So I will be flying home tomorrow working out quite what I need to buy and coming up with a sensible plan of how I pay for it!

If I line up,at 100%, a RED file and a Canon 1DS MK2 file in Photoshop I'm struggling to find a difference. If anything the RED may just have the edge - never thought I would say that. At 16 bit 76Mb!

Home on Monday, I will try and post,if anyone is interested, some Canon 1DS v RED Epic files?

Lastly a massive thank you to RED for making this all possible. When's the 645 chip coming? #please,please and i can give up my Phase back!

Caleb Heymann

01-22-2012, 02:13 AM

Hi Iain, what a coincidence stumbling upon this thread now for the first time as I get ready to hand you back your rushes! Well thank you for the very kind compliment, and likewise it was great working with you. This was my first motion-for-stills shoot and it was wonderful to have someone of your caliber so impressed by the stills functionality of the camera and Redcine X Pro. Red has proven their dedication to the DSMC concept through their continued development of the stills workflow in Redcine X and it works like a dream, playing back motion at 96 fps and simply hitting E to grab frames, the batch grading, the quick export of TIFFS. It's great already and I'm holding thumbs that the Monstro sensor will open up even more options for stills with greater flash support (due to faster scan) and lower noise floor, which would make the plus two stops HDRX method very effective.

Iain Philpott

01-23-2012, 02:28 PM

Just been going through my rushes. Arrived back from Cape Town this morning and have been working with the new Beta Redcine Pro. The rushes Caleb has sent me home with are incredible - the RAW still files that I'm exporting from the new Beta software are unbelievable! I will post a gallery later this week if time allows. Please hang with me. What I will say is the still frames on initial inspection are as good as my Canon 1DS! The motion - well it's just poetry.

The camera is amazing but it worries me when I see posts tonight regarding the firmware update disasters to RED Rocket?

I do agree with Phillip Bloom's post and I believe Steve Sherrick made a post that maybe Red Scarlet is not for everyone. I would place Epic in that category too. I for one feel committed to it and I do understand that, to a certain part, I'm taking part in a Beta test. Beta tests on software that I have played a part in are always FOC and don't effect my hardware. Now I see here tonight that maybe updates can effect your hardware.

Where does that leave me? Committed to the product but maybe looking for a little more warranty support on hardware not limited to three months on attached but sold separatly products. Am happy to be a Beta tester but wait a little longer until you are better judged to offer it to the general punter rather than Hollywood who don't care about the expense of repair. If you want me to commit to the system then I want to see a little more support from you for something I buy from you. I do not want to buy a product with less than three years warranty. Yes then I do except the overall price will rise to accept those warranty claims but shared between everyone i do not believe that it seriously adds much to the cost of a camera/hardware - but certainly adds to customer satisfaction!

Here's to 'Customer Satisfaction' !

All the best

Iain