RED goes to Red Square, Russia!

[radiant]

We are currently shooting a feature with our RED in Moscow's Red Square under extreme climate conditions of -6 celsius; which causes the RED to not boot up. We designed a rain/body cover that holds heat packs and problem solved. Now if we could find a way to keep our own bodies warm, we'd be set!

Proud owner Michael Mansouri #75

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Mansouri #75

HI congrats michael .dont forget to shoot THE RED FLAG
WHAT about your name ?

[Dan Blanchett]

Sounds like fun Michael! Can you provide more details about the project?

[Steve Sherrick]

I can tell you first hand that I don't work too well at -6 either. In fact, I get a bit whiny at about 28 degrees faraheit.

Seriously though, there's a thread already about this. Take a peek.

There will be a solution for this. If not something that Red offers, perhaps a 3rd party will jump in, but it will get solved. Take a look at the other thread, it's got some ideas floating around.

Steve

[Andreas Reischl]

I don't mean to scare you, but you got off easy, Russia can be a lot colder!

-6 is kinda just getting you started, usually it's a lot colder.
Guess you have to adapt the Russian form of keeping yourself warm (vodka!).

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Well I would say that seals the deal. It's official don't take a RED out into the cold unless you can bring gear to warm it up and keep it warm. It's not a question of it will fail in < 0C weather but what you'll do to fix it.

-6 is not that cold. So what are all of the snowboard/ski action shooters going to do? No Warren Miller in 4k without a backpack full of hotpacks?

[Steve Sherrick]

Can we move this over to the cold thread.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6497&page=11

Only reason I ask is that it will keep that conversation (a good one) focused in one thread.

Thanks!
Steve

[Finner]

We are currently shooting a feature with our RED in Moscow's Red Square under extreme climate conditions of -6 celsius; which causes the RED to not boot up. We designed a rain/body cover that holds heat packs and problem solved. Now if we could find a way to keep our own bodies warm, we'd be set!

Proud owner Michael Mansouri #75

Sorry Michael but IMO calling -6c an extreme climate condition is like calling a 6 foot tall person extremely tall. -6c is nothing that cold.

I wish someone from red would comment on what steps they are taking to fix this big problem.

[Häakon]

Well I would say that seals the deal. It's official don't take a RED out into the cold unless you can bring gear to warm it up and keep it warm.
On the flip side, I have had a lot of problems using the camera in moderately (not extreme) hot environments. It seems like the body likes "normal" temperatures to run properly; in other words, both ends of the spectrum need to be addressed. Simply making it run hotter in the cold environments would be devastating for any remotely warm shooting conditions.

[Finner]

What exact hot temperature do you run into problems Haakon?

[Mark Pugh]

The feature shot recently in Australia used cold packs on the camera a lot. They were shooting in a large interior set in Spring. Just a regular warmish interior, I believe.
There was a thread about this shoot recently. You can find a video to watch about the shoot at www.lemac.com.au

[Mark Pugh]

I wonder why there are no heatsinks on the top of the camera to allow for heat dissipation.

[Brook Willard]

The feature shot recently in Australia used cold packs on the camera a lot. They were shooting in a large interior set in Spring. Just a regular warmish interior, I believe.
There was a thread about this shoot recently. You can find a video to watch about the shoot at www.lemac.com.au

I find it surprising that they used cold packs on a normal temperature day. They probably misinterpreted the RED's constant full-blast fan [in any mode but variable while not rolling] as "holy crap, it's going to overheat." RTFM? :)


I wonder why there are no heatsinks on the top of the camera to allow for heat dissipation.

It doesn't really get that hot up there. The top does have some grooves on it that increase surface area by a factor of 2-3x, so there's *some* heat dissipation up there... but most of the heat I've ever felt in the camera comes out of the vents on the bottom. I've felt a camera overheat [any camera would've overheated in these circumstances] and it gets pretty cookin'.

[ChrisLyon]

Awesome news on the shooting in Red Square. I sent you a PM about footage hosting. I can't wait to see some of the great stuff I'm sure you are dying to share! :)

[Häakon]

It doesn't really get that hot up there. The top does have some grooves on it that increase surface area by a factor of 2-3x, so there's *some* heat dissipation up there...
Really? After a 12-hour day of shooting - even outdoors in this recently brisk L.A. nighttime weather, the top of the camera gets far too hot to touch. We keep our fan settings to "HOT" all the time now unless we're shooting sync because of the issues we've been having...

[Mark Pugh]

Really? After a 12-hour day of shooting - even outdoors in this recently brisk L.A. nighttime weather, the top of the camera gets far too hot to touch. We keep our fan settings to "HOT" all the time now unless we're shooting sync because of the issues we've been having...

Yep. Last time I checked, Heat rises. If there's hot air coming out of the bottom, it's because that's where someone put the fans.

[Mark Pugh]

Really? After a 12-hour day of shooting - even outdoors in this recently brisk L.A. nighttime weather, the top of the camera gets far too hot to touch. We keep our fan settings to "HOT" all the time now unless we're shooting sync because of the issues we've been having...

So how are you supposed to shoot a documentary with this camera? I mean, if the top gets too hot to touch, why not put on heat sinks? Surface area would increase massively, not just by the 2x or 3x that these little ridges supposedly create.

[Mark Pugh]

I find it surprising that they used cold packs on a normal temperature day. They probably misinterpreted the RED's constant full-blast fan [in any mode but variable while not rolling] as "holy crap, it's going to overheat." RTFM? :)

That's quite an assumption to make of the crew. Very patronising.

[ChrisLyon]

Don't be so condescending, mark. It's pretty presumptuous of yourself to assume that a moderator on the official Red forums and someone that has actually worked with the Red (unlike yourself) doesn't know what the camera might tend to do. His assumptions are likely based on personal experience and thought processes of his own. Even if they weren't you shouldn't be blasting him for it.

[Mark Pugh]

Don't be so condescending, mark. It's pretty presumptuous of yourself to assume that a moderator on the official Red forums and someone that has actually worked with the Red (unlike yourself) doesn't know what the camera might tend to do. His assumptions are likely based on personal experience and thought processes of his own. Even if they weren't you shouldn't be blasting him for it.

Fine. The camera doesn't get hot. That crew had no problems with a hot camera. They were just paranoid. The only heat that comes off of the camera is through holes at the bottom. And heat doesn't rise. And yeah there's a massive surface area at the top for heat dissipation. And when the red drive comes out real soon and the director will want to roll for 30 mins straight, and you're in on a close-up and it's a big emotional scene, and you can hear a pin drop on set, and the camera shuts down in the middle of it all, sure, there's no problem... I hope Brook's right.

[Shawn Nelson]

It's easy to make bad assumptions. In my first week or so the Red had some trouble and I immediately put frozen peas and ice packs (erroneously thinking it had something to do with heat). It wasn't, it started again on it's own.

[Häakon]

Hi Shawn,

I believe that a good deal of my problems are indeed due to heat-related issues; when I run the camera for just brief periods of time or have the ability to power down for decent breaks during a shoot I rarely run into problems... but when I use it for several hours on end, all sorts of complications manifest themselves including corrupt clips, system freezing, and in some cases, camera shutdown. It is also during these situations where the camera is so hot that it cannot be comfortably touched on its top. The solution is to power down the camera and let it cool for several minutes so we can resume shooting.

One big downside of the camera is that it currently still takes over a minute to "boot up," meaning that it's pretty inconvenient to power down completely on a set when you're in between takes at a singular location. You don't want to keep the camera running the whole time because it gets hot, but you don't want to power it down because it needs to be ready when the director calls action.

With this in mind, RED ONE owners know that we are still in early stages of development with the camera and I always address any potential problems with a client before an agreement is signed. However, it should also be said that none of these glitches have stopped me from shooting some amazing footage.

[Mark Pugh]

The solution is to power down the camera and let it cool for several minutes so we can resume shooting.


It's simply not practical to power off a camera when you are on a commercial, fiddling for ages setting up the elements of a shot, and everyone wants to look at the shot while this is happening. The camera goes off at lunchtime, and that's about it.

We need this issue solved.

[J. Eric Camp]

Hello all.

This is my first post here and I am sure many of you have more experience with the RED than myself. However I shot the VFX plates for Night at the Museum 2. We never had heat issues nor did the camera ever get to a "too hot to touch" point. I found the re-boot time is minimal when compared to mag loading. The camera proved quite reliable and functional through the whole shoot. The camera stayed "on" for 90% of our shoot day with nary an issue. Not one clip was corrupted and the camera never went "down." I would have no concern shooting a commercial or a documentary with this camera. With any piece of electronic gear one should know that conditioning for the elements is required. On "House of Sand" they had five Arri 535s and an Arri tech on set because the extreme environment kept shutting cameras down. Dealing with said issues is part of the job. Thats why they make products like environmental bags for cameras. The, albeit somewhat limited, time I have spent with this camera has proven it to be no less reliable than any other electronic camera I have worked with. I am not going to say the camera is utterly "perfect" as is. We all know that this series of RED is the ALPHA type. Of-coarse some issues will arise and will need addressing. Dealing with any of those is the burden of being an early adopter. Just know that once they are worked out those early adopters will be at the front of the class. That is why we do it.

cheers

-eric-

[ChrisLyon]

Welcome to the forums, Eric. Glad to hear positive and less biased reviews from first time posters.

[Finner]

Hi Eric

Just for reference what was the top and bottom end of temperature conditions you worked with the camera in?

Thanks for your comments.

[vincelucero]

Welcome to the forums, Eric. Glad to hear positive and less biased reviews from first time posters.

And from someone working on a studio (fox) set. Can't believe the first Museum made $560M. Damn. :whistling:

Aloha Eric. Was there anything differently you guys did with RED, as opposed to other cameras?

[vincelucero]

Wow Chris, just checked out RedRelay. Very cool shit, man! I'll have to grab some info.

[J. Eric Camp]

Hi Eric

Just for reference what was the top and bottom end of temperature conditions you worked with the camera in?

Thanks for your comments.

We would arrive near midday and shoot past night fall. That meant that the camera arrives on location at around 50ºF. By the end of the day it would have dropped to a low of roughly 7-10ºF. The humidity was somewhere around 80% (I believe I remember it listed as 81% actually) and one day it did in fact rain. With a dew point of around 40º as we would fall into night everything would become covered in dew, the camera included. So much so that none of our tape (the sticky kind you use to hold stuff together: camera, gaffer etc) would stick to anything. I was quite surprise at how well the camera held up to a good deal of moisture. It is at around 80% that tape based cameras start to have serious issues with the tape sticking to the drums. No such concerns.

Yes I know that this is not the most taxing of situations and yes I know if the camera were to have a heat issue that I was in an environment that would help alleviate some of that.

I still stand by my assertion that this camera is a wonderful piece of gear that even in it's current period of growth is a viable and worth-while tool that does and will only continue to deliver. There are a few issues that I would consider critical for RED to address, but I am confident that they are already five steps ahead of me.

And to answer if there was anything we did different with the RED that any other cameras. Yes, we shot 4k r3d files. Thats pretty special in my book. Other than that we relied on the inherent qualities of the camera. It's latitude for instance was very important as the days turned into nights. The sensor was actually more sensitive than my light meter. Also the ability to review files (and their luma range) on set was a big help.

cheers

-eric-

[Finner]

Thanks Eric

It is good to hear such strong possitive reports. What position did you do?

[jbeale]

Thanks for the info Eric, good to hear! Note, if the camera is on most of the time, it will be at least a little bit warmer than the surroundings, so that would reduce chances of condensation on the camera, as well as cold-temp issues. But if the dew did show up on the camera, that shows the camera body was not very hot!

[Häakon]

We would arrive near midday and shoot past night fall. That meant that the camera arrives on location at around 50ºF. By the end of the day it would have dropped to a low of roughly 7-10ºF.
I certainly hope your camera wouldn't overheat in a 7-10ºF environment! :-)

Good to hear that you haven't had many problems; clearly it's in the hotter temperatures where it becomes an issue.

[Ivan Egorov]

so close to me, and I cant reach it!

[radiant]

Well as far as warmer temp.
I just returned from a two week shoot in Buenos Aires.
The temp was +40 and extremely humid, camera worked fine.