Mitchell vs. 100mm 4" vs. 100mm bowl etc.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hey guys,

as for one of my camera support system I will have the ARRI HEAD II I like to keep all the gear with Mitchell base mounts to be able to swap heads if and when necessery, from the Bazooka to the tripod and so on.

It is this a good idea to go all with Mitchell base mounts?

When buying tripods and heads it is important to buy all with the same Mitchell base or can it be 100mm half bowl 4" base, 150mm bowl or flat base?

Would it be better no to use adapters to mount a mitchell head base on a tripod with any other of the base mounts mentioned above?

Just making the final purchase decision on the head and tripod camera support system for RED#349 and I would like some suggestions on this matter so to get the right staff.

Thanks much in advance for your responses.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Greg M]

I prefer all Mitchell base, but its really a matter of preference. The adapters are always left behind or lost but the bowls are easier to level.

If you are always on a dolly or jib that has a Mitchell base I would stick to a Mitchell base head. If you run around alot with yur sticks then the ball haed makes more sense. Personally I have one of each along wth all the adapters. That way when I have a large crew and dolly, I use the 2060 w/ mitchell base...when running around with a lighter package I use the Sachtler ball head.

[KETCH ROSSi]

If it is only a matter of parts getting lost, that would be hard to happen as I have cases for everything and keep good track of staff, but again recently I'm not so sure I can continue to do so very well, so this could be a factor.

The jib and the Bazooka on the dolly will be Mitchell base, but the sticks can be Mitchell or ball head if I consider the adapter route.

So if I understand correctly your suggestion is to get the sticks with a Sachtler ball base and then place an adaptor to mount the Mitchell base fluid or gear Head.

Also since you mentioned the 2060, I see many suggesting the 1030HD, is the 2060HD a much better head to use with RED?

Thanks digitalfx for your input.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI

[Dan Blanchett]

I chose the 2060 because of the extra load it can handle; it seemed the safer bet. It's HUGE but very nice. I also chose the 150mm ball for the ease in leveling, but I will likely pick this (http://www.filmtools.com/mito15baad.html) up for any jib, dolly or cart action.

[Greg M]

The 2060 is a far better head, but at the expense of alot more weight and size.

"So if I understand correctly your suggestion is to get the sticks with a Sachtler ball base and then place an adaptor to mount the Mitchell base fluid or gear Head."

Not exactly, what I said is I have both. A 2060 w/ Mitchell base and a Sachtler w/ 100mm ball.

Really the big difference is leveling. If you need to quickly level your head...get the ball. If you usually have 4+ grips get the Mitchell base.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Okay then I will get the 2060HD with the Mitchell base.

Now if I get the sticks with ball base and a mitchell to ball head adaptor(reverse to what thinkbug suggested) would that work the same as far as fast levelling goes?

I was till now going to get MSE 415063 leveling base for leveling, is this not a good choice?

Thanks again for your advice.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Brook Willard]

I'd go with a Mitchell base hands-down. Also definitely go with the large european quick release.

[Greg M]

Okay then I will get the 2060HD with the Mitchell base.

Now if I get the sticks with ball base and a mitchell to ball head adaptor(reverse to what thinkbug suggested) would that work the same as far as fast levelling goes?

I was till now going to get MSE 415063 leveling base for leveling, is this not a good choice?

Thanks again for your advice.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com


NO dont get that...too bulky. If you get a 2060 w/ mitchell base, then get the sticks w/ mitchell base. You level with the legs.

[Steve Gal]

Ketch,
It is easier to have mitchell base and put a 150 or even a 100mm ball to it than the other way around. I wouldn'y want to use a mitchell based Arri geared head on 150 ball legs with the appropriate adapter. Trying to level that thing in a ball base could result in tipping over. Get Ball based heads and use mitchell based legs and then use mitchell to the proper base adapters in my opinion if you want to use adapters at all. And of course leave your arri geared head in mitchell base.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Brooks the European plate is the 2575-120, correct?

In all truth I would prefer to just get a second gear head, but I have being thinking on getting also a fluid head some DP's that may prefer to go with it instead of a gear head.

I prefer to learn directly on a gear head, Mitchell to Mitchell and keep all the gear that way.

With a 3 camera setup I should have both, I think.

But leveling with the legs on the sticks it is not an option I consider as to personal experience.

I guess what I'm trying to do is minimize the amount of sticks and gear wile providing for the same sticks for both the Gear head and the fluid head.

But if this becomes to difficult I prefer to get two set of sticks with different bases.

I'm missing something here or it is this what I must do in order to get fast and easy leveling for the fluid head on sticks with ball base and a mitchell base sticks for the gear head.

I was hopping for a solution were on pair of sticks one dolly/w removable Bazooka and a jib could be alternated in the use of both heads.

But at the end I want to provide my self and my crew with the right tools for the job, just would like to keep the gear purchases to what makes sense.

Do forgive me if my Q? are a repeat but I want to make sure I get it right from those of you that know and use the gear on regular bases.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Greg M]

no get sticks with Mitchell base and one of these:

http://www.filmtools.com/mito15baad.html

Then your head can have a 150mm bowl, your sticks support the gear head and everyone is happy.

BTW- Its not all that difficult to level your tripod w/ the legs.

[Finner]

Ketch

You are seriously thinking about buying an arri gear head, a 2060 and a dolly????????????????

Your best bet by a long long way is to rent what you need for your first film or short. Learn what you like and what the people you like to work with like and then maybe buy for the next shoot. Although you are most often further ahead to rent a lot of that gear. Buying a bunch of gear that you don't even know how it all fits together or how to use it is crazy. Most likely you will end up selling a bunch of gear that you realize you do not like at a loss. Just like you did with your lights.

Renting is not a bad thing. Put your $ into whats on the screen and make your money from a sucessful movie. Maybe I misunderstand and you are more interested in becoming a film rental company though?

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks digitalfx,

now I have a better idea of what to rent and try out before buying.

One last suggestion if I my, what sticks wold you suggest if I was to get one pair just for the fluid head?


Finner,

I have no interest in rentals, and yes I will likely be the one to rent out my gear, possibly, but I do not rent, not the little staff anyway, if was big rigs then is one other story all together.

The tungsten and the kino lights were sold simply because my plan has changed drasticly do to my health that requires me to move back to Italy next year, for good, so I need to get al the gear as compact as possible also keeping daily costs in mind.

The tungsten needed to much power to operate for this I'm going the HMI route.

The kino lights were replaced by the Brute9 from LED-Z (new technology and just announced) with better light source, more compact, more trow and most importantly they last a lifetime without replacing bulbs and at last they only consume 10% in comparison.

As far as buying is the only option because the project I'm working on, is a 4 parts feature film shot coninuosly (just like LOR) at a smaller, much smaller budjet, but shot in 5 countries and several locations for which not all will have rentals, by the time I would pay rentals anyway, I would already own the gear.

I enquire for advise by those that use and know the gear, then I go and try the gear out, then I buy what I liked best, but as the options are always so many I like to narrow them down a bit.

Jim says this "everything in life changes" well so it does for me.

I do have KETCHFRAME STUDIOS, which now is based on the second floor of my California home but as soon as I go back home this will be a fully operating company, and for this I also buy all the gear wile I'm here.

I appreciate your concerne and suggestions, but buying the gear it is my best option giving the needs of my projects.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Finner]

Well I wish you the best then Ketch and a bunch of that does make sense. I would recomend you not getting the arri gear head for the needs you mention though. They are more of a specialty item and quite heavy to ship. Two 2060 mitchell base heads with 2 standard sticks, 1 baby sticks with a 1 hi hat and 1 low hat would be your best bet for the needs you mention and should cover most of your shooting needs with 2 cameras.

[Greg M]

I agree...you might consider a 2060 and a 2575 though.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks Finner,

I will have 3 cameras (#349,#851,#852) so I would very likely get the gear head, the reason I think will be the ARRI HEAD II is because I was told that it is reduced in size and much lighter, but still have to test it out, also I have been pointed out to some other gear heads as well.

I do believe that a gear head will give very well controlled levels of movement better then fluid heads for scenes up close and especially for micro shoots using Master Diopters, for me anyway, as it will be a much more stable platform vs. the totally hand controlled fluid head, my arm has a trambling caused by recent surgeries that makes the gear head a better choice.

The gear head will be on my camera setup most of the time when I'm not in front of the camera.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI

[KETCH ROSSi]

I agree...you might consider a 2060 and a 2575 though.

You are talking about the 2575-120 European adapter that Brook suggested, not the 2575C head, correct?

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI

[Greg M]

no the 2575 head. Rather than 2 2060 heads, get one of each. This will cover you if you add large zooms + better rental options.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Okay,

I will check them out both, I'm sure I will find them in LA.

But I was thinking of the gear head specifically for that reason as I'm looking in buying a large zoom like the Agenieux 24-290, I wish the MasterZoom was available and for sale, but at this time I can only find the LightZoom from ARRI.

Anyway I will check out the 2575 also.

Thanks again.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Steve Tammi]

Hey Ketch,

Sorry I missed you at LART. I was scheduled to be there but had a last minute trip out of the country. Looks like you guys had fun and did some good work!

The advice you have gotten in the thread so far is good stuff. Here is what I chose and why...

I went with the 1030HDS for a couple reasons...

One: because the head will work for most of what I do without being too heavy to lug around.

Two: I very rarely use the full 90 degree tilt offered by the 1030HD so I sacrificed that for the 60 tilt offered by the 1030HDS which in turn handles an additional 10 pounds. I talked to a rep who said O'Connor is conservative with their max rated weight. Based on my experience I would say that is pretty much true but I did max out a 1030HD once with a full package; camera, lens, MB20-II matte box, follow focus, battery, panasonic 8.4" monitor, it worked but was at the limit and I would not want to work that way again.

I got a deal on a set of O'Connor 55L legs with a Mitchell mount. They are not the heaviest or lightest set of legs but they match up well with the 1030HDS and establish a good solid foundation.

I also bought a hard and soft case for transport. Hard for the long hauls when I am not personally carrying the tripod and soft for when I am.

If hauling around weight was a non issue I would choose the O'Connor 2060HD. A fully loaded RED on the 2060HD head is a dream. Silky smooth! For now I will rent the 2060HD when needed.

Best,

Steve

[KETCH ROSSi]

Sorry you missed too, it was fun, very fun.

I also just PM you to see if the deal for the Oconnor is still available as I think from Greg of digitalfx I will get the 2060 with Brooks suggestion adding the 2575 euro plate and the cine HD sticks with hard case.

Thanks in advance Steve, we will meet next time.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI

[T. Glen Phelps]

KETCH,

The deal is definitely still good. At least through the end of December. I just spoke with the vendor today. It's turned out to be a great deal as O'Connor has given us even more of a price break than Steve had originally negotiated.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Great Glen...

Just got a PM from Steve with the contact info.

This is truly great the way we come together for each other.

As I wrote to Steve an in my group light purchase, I will be talking to get a few deals going with MATTHEWS MSE, ARRI, PELICAN CASES and a couple of other companies including a financial services one, with the purchasing agreements for KETCHFRAME STUDIOS I will be able to pass alone discounts up and possibly over 40%.

Will post soon.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[T. Glen Phelps]

Great Ketch. Good Luck with the purchase, I know you will get a great deal on a fantastic piece of gear. I went with the 2060HD with a 150mm ball base. It is extremely well designed and well built. I love it.