Hot Shooting

[Michael Brennan]

The heat issues deserve a thread of their own.

Can Red users in hot climes do some empirical testing?

No doubt there has been serious thought to putting heat sinks at the bottom on RED, but it would be interesting to learn if turning the camera upside down reduces frequency of overheating.



Mike Brennan

[Jannard]

We would love to hear of any cameras that are over-heating with a build after 8 (we haven't)... or do you just have old news?

Jim

[mdo]

Old rumors: the undead.

[Jannard]

It is easy to fix problems... it is hard to get the taste of them out of your mouth.

Jim

[M Taylor]

Just to confirm, cold packs and other remedies are no longer required for shooting in hot climates, if running firmware version 9 and above ?

[Martin Ludwig]

Just to confirm, cold packs and other remedies are no longer required for shooting in hot climates, if running firmware version 9 and above ?
we want to hear that for cold conditions.

[Adrian T.]

Just to confirm, cold packs and other remedies are no longer required for shooting in hot climates, if running firmware version 9 and above ?
we want to hear that for cold conditions.

You want to hear that no cold packs are required for shooting under cold conditions? I can confirm that! :biggrin:

[M Taylor]

we want to hear that for cold conditions.

No sorry, I'm asking the question, do we still need cold packs? Can someone confirm this?

[M Taylor]

Thanks for that Big Lebowski. Good news...

[Warren Kommers]

It is hard to get the taste of them out of your mouth.

Jim

Especially when you have a product that is being closely watched by an entire industry , a nearly open book on that products devlopment and a internet forum to spread that information. Bad or good.

[sander kamp]

There is something about over-heating in this thread:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6582&page=3

It doesn't say anything about what firmware the camera was running. What worries me though is that the camera apparently gets very hot on the outside when running for a long time even in moderately warm weather. Don't really see how that could be solved by firmware.

Days with moderately warm weather are rare over here in Bangkok, mostly it's just hot, hot, hot.

[Häakon]

We would love to hear of any cameras that are over-heating with a build after 8 (we haven't)... or do you just have old news?

Jim
Hi Jim,

I continue to have heat-related issues with my camera - now running build 11 (though I have used it through builds 8-10 as well). More recent builds have increased performance with other issues to some degree (slow boot times, sluggish playback capability), but have had no effect on overheating problems. I still cannot run the camera for over 5-6 hours at a time without the need for powering down for 10-15 minutes and letting it cool a bit. And I am not running the camera in any kind of extreme temperature situations; mostly indoors on standard room-temperature sets.

As I mentioned earlier, these setbacks have NOT stopped me from shooting magnificent 4K footage with my RED ONE, and I continue to heartily endorse the camera to others. At the same time, lingering problems should not be referred to as a "bad taste" and certainly continue to prevent the system as being ready for bulletproof, prime-time use.

[Evin Grant]

The only time I've seen the little heat warning arrow was at 20' below the surface of the Persian Gulf sealed in a PVC housing with no outside ventilation (For obvious reasons) but the camera still recorded properly and never shut down on me.

[jbeale]

What I heard Jim saying was old stories bouncing around the net about problems which had long since been fixed, gave him a sour taste. Understandable. Sounded like he had not heard from you directly about your overtemp issues until just now (?) I'd say the more info the better, so long as it's the current info.

[Häakon]

I'd say the more info the better, so long as it's the current info.
Definitely current info. Been shooting all week!

[Steve Sherrick]

I guess the only thing that concerns me (that concern is mere curiosity until I receive my camera) is that people are having different experiences with their cameras in similar circumstances. I've seen this now with the cold and heat issues. For some, the camera runs fine in a particular environment while someone else with the same firmware has a problem.

So, I guess the question I have for the Red team is what could be causing the disparity between cameras? It seems to me you guys are not seeing the same results that others are seeing, otherwise I have to think you wouldn't let the cameras out of the building. Is it user error, does each camera have its own personality, or is there some other kind of issue going on that is hard to predict for you guys and didn't show up in testing?

I'm starting to feel a little bad for Jim and the rest of the team to be honest. In their attempt to be completely open about the developement of this camera and getting it out to the first 100 customers in such a public forum, they are having to fight some fires publicly as well, and at times I feel like they are at a disadvantage because it hits the forum, rumors start to spread, and they barely have a chance to examine the issues people are having before they have to go on the defensive.

So, I guess I'm saying I don't want to fuel the fire, just trying to understand the issues more clearly.

Steve

[Häakon]

In their attempt to be completely open about the developement of this camera and getting it out to the first 100 customers in such a public forum, they are having to fight some fires publicly as well, and at times I feel like they are at a disadvantage because it hits the forum, rumors start to spread, and they barely have a chance to examine the issues people are having before they have to go on the defensive.
Just so there isn't any confusion, RED has no fires to put out with me. I understand fully that as one of the earliest supporters of the company I am a beta tester and they made it very clear that the cameras were not "finished" when we took them. I was merely clarifying that there are still temperature issues as it seems there wasn't 100% understanding on the issue.

[Steve Sherrick]

Not aimed at you Haakon. You are always straight forward with your feedback. I'm alluding to the overall process and how hard it must be for these guys to be facing this enormous amount of scrutiny, especially when it goes in the wrong direction. You clearly have never done that and most people on this board have been very fair and honest with their feedback.

Steve

[Mardi_Gras]

I have to say, I completely agree with you, Steve. I feel terrible for Jim & the team - doesn't mean they can hold their own, but this open door policy does have its drawbacks and they rear their ugly heads when rumors like these keep swirling around the net and with the entire industry and your own competition awaiting a slip; this can be present a devil-of-a-rope to navigate, if you'll excuse the pun.

Bottomline, Jim stays close to this forum and takes in everybody's opinion, then he has to go back to his control room with his team and sieve the junk away from the substance; this also is no easy task.

We all have needs - camera owners, rez holders and prospective camera owners, but the RedOne, we mustn't forget, is still officially being Beta tested - at least from the last time I checked.

While helping Jim and the team make a better camera with our constructive feedbacks, let's give these guys a break to do their thing, afterall it was Jim's original idea, not ours.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I wouldn't feel too sorry for them. They've talked a lot of smack in their day and sold a lot of cameras sight unseen thanks to their bravado. I doubt RED would rather be in a position where nobody heard of them and nobody was checking out what they were up to. All goes with the territory of bold marketing. It's like Paris Hilton whining about the press paying too much attention to her.

[Finner]

Thats cool news Gavin. When did Paris start working at red? Did she take over Kelly's job?

[Mardi_Gras]

While I agree that it can with the territory, the Paris Hilton analogy is quite lame, IMHO. The last time I checked, Paris Hilton was being celebrated for being, well, Paris Hilton, the Red team on the other hand are breaking new grounds in an otherwise unchartered territory. So once more, less heckling and more constructive vibe would do just fine.

[Michael Brennan]

We would love to hear of any cameras that are over-heating with a build after 8 (we haven't)... or do you just have old news?

Jim


Jim,
I'm usually pretty good on keeping track of the latest news!

Based on my past experience with other manufacturers I don't share your optomism that new builds will not introduce new issues, in my book each major build needs to earn its stripes in the field.


Communicating what you are doing to improve the camera as well as fix issues and snags and is vital once there are thousands of cameras in use.

Does RED need a more structured method to communicate this stuff, to both RED owners and RED users?

Not everyone will upgrade and I've found it useful to browse engineering bulletins of other manufacturers to figure out if a fault is new or should have been fixed and to know what issues to look for.

In the mid term, what would be really cool is to have a online source of verified faults and snags even the ones that haven't been fixed.




Mike Brennan

[Rob Lohman]

Haakon: that's odd, I've shot for 12 hours straight myself, for example. No problems. Unfortunately I can't really give you any advice on what might be wrong since I'm all on the software side..... sorry

Best,

[Jannard]

Jim,
I'm usually pretty good on keeping track of the latest news!

Based on my past experience with other manufacturers I don't share your optomism that new builds will not introduce new issues, in my book each major build needs to earn its stripes in the field.


Communicating what you are doing to improve the camera as well as fix issues and snags and is vital once there are thousands of cameras in use.

Does RED need a more structured method to communicate this stuff, to both RED owners and RED users?

Not everyone will upgrade and I've found it useful to browse engineering bulletins of other manufacturers to figure out if a fault is new or should have been fixed and to know what issues to look for.

In the mid term, what would be really cool is to have a online source of verified faults and snags even the ones that haven't been fixed.

Mike Brennan

We all hope the painful period is drawing to a close. Most features are enabled. The firmware is now solid. Hardware issues are being addressed with the new cameras. The next 2 months won't look like that last two.

We appreciate the patience of the initial 100 users... they have laid the groundwork for the rest of the RED customers. We will always pick at and improve the RED ONE. But the worst is over (I hope!).

Jim

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Paris Hilton was being celebrated for being, well, Paris Hilton, the Red team on the other hand are breaking new grounds in an otherwise unchartered territory.

What you do and what you're famous for are two very different things. I wouldn't say most RED buzz is in any way related to the actual images the camera produces. Most of it is the "Film is dead! No it's not! Red sucks! No it's awesome!" chatter.

[Häakon]

Haakon: that's odd, I've shot for 12 hours straight myself, for example. No problems. Unfortunately I can't really give you any advice on what might be wrong since I'm all on the software side..... sorry

Best,
It's alright, I know there are still some weird bugs. Maybe I just have a particularly finicky camera. Someone suggested I get the CF module swapped out, but it's literally been in use every day and I haven't had the opportunity to do so. I'm really just taking solace in the fact that Jim has decided to give the first 100 customers brand new bodies - that really makes a difference to me and I am hoping will fix all of my problems. When you get #79 back, you can turn it on and see firsthand all of the fun I've been having! :bleh:

[Mardi_Gras]

What you do and what you're famous for are two very different things. I wouldn't say most RED buzz is in any way related to the actual images the camera produces. Most of it is the "Film is dead! No it's not! Red sucks! No it's awesome!" chatter.

Hi Gavin,

If this is is how you see the Red, then I guess there's no point in taking this any further, even though I strongly disagree with your statement above.

Rich.

[Eryc Tramonn]

I wouldn't feel too sorry for them. They've talked a lot of smack in their day and sold a lot of cameras sight unseen thanks to their bravado. I doubt RED would rather be in a position where nobody heard of them and nobody was checking out what they were up to. All goes with the territory of bold marketing. It's like Paris Hilton whining about the press paying too much attention to her.

Agreed.

[Tony Lorentzen]

The next 2 months won't look like that last two.

Sorry to sound like a repetitive parrot, but does this add delays to everyone down the line? I am expecting to get my camera around NAB '08 and I was planning to make the trip to the US to pick up the camera in person, except that won't be possible if I can't pick it up a few days before or after NAB (or during if possible)... :umm: