View Full Version : homebuilt motion control camera
filmfan222
12-08-2007, 05:59 PM
hey guys,
I'm a student here at Virginia Tech.
Ive spent the better part of the last 6 months putting together a motion control camera system here for a personal project I'm working on.
www.tarded.com/bodylapse/cameramoving.mov
www.tarded.com/bodylapse/firstmocotest.mov (wobbly because i hadnt sandbagged or wedged the track)
Without getting too specific about the project (spent a year working on it, dont want someone to come steal it! ;) I can say that its been alot of hard work, and General-Lift in Los Angeles has been a huge help.
Ill let you guys know when my project starts, and where you can see the updates weekly!
Panasonic, EEFX and Red Lighting Software are all current sponsors of the project. Maybe Papa Jim will take some interest and "lend" Virginia Tech a Red for a few months? one could only hope. The project does have a little to do with his other "pet project," performance in athletics....
Cheers! more later!
Charles Wood
Stephen Williams
12-09-2007, 03:55 AM
With all due respect a few sandbags won't make that smooth.
Having worked with many motion control's over the last 30 years I know of many projects that got scrapped.
Stephen
hey guys,
I'm a student here at Virginia Tech.
Ive spent the better part of the last 6 months putting together a motion control camera system here for a personal project I'm working on.
www.tarded.com/bodylapse/cameramoving.mov
www.tarded.com/bodylapse/firstmocotest.mov (wobbly because i hadnt sandbagged or wedged the track)
Without getting too specific about the project (spent a year working on it, dont want someone to come steal it! ;) I can say that its been alot of hard work, and General-Lift in Los Angeles has been a huge help.
Ill let you guys know when my project starts, and where you can see the updates weekly!
Panasonic, EEFX and Red Lighting Software are all current sponsors of the project. Maybe Papa Jim will take some interest and "lend" Virginia Tech a Red for a few months? one could only hope. The project does have a little to do with his other "pet project," performance in athletics....
Cheers! more later!
Charles Wood
James T Mather
12-09-2007, 05:25 AM
are you planning on manufacturing and marketing this system?
Akube
12-09-2007, 07:41 AM
the movements are very robotic. you know the robo dance. the movements need a curve. smooth acceleration... keep going... then smooth deceleration. Either way, I wont buy it kiddo.
Sorry, didnt mean to be mean or harsh to your hardwork in this science project.. its slick.. interesting.. but I don't see value. I stated what i honestly had in mind.
ChrisLyon
12-09-2007, 09:45 AM
To me the main cam device looks like little more science than a modified i-light. Which is good because there is a hunk of junk of technology and research already done on that technology if that is what it is. Maybe working on a way to create a tween or curve in the software output for speed will allow for smoother stops. It appears that some of it is on-off, on-off , A-b, C-d motion- like it is in the i-light world. Maybe you are limited by the hardware's ability to respond to smaller, more defined movements. Maybe I'm all wrong.
Either way, interested in watching this program grow. It may be hitchy now, but that doesn't mean that it won't be smooth in the future.
James T Mather
12-09-2007, 10:38 AM
agreed - people on this thread seem to be responding a little harshly. keep up the good work filmfan222.
filmfan222
12-09-2007, 12:14 PM
Reading these replies has been a bit of a little bit of a disappointment.
Id like to make a few things clear:
I'm a student, and a computer animator. I built this all in our small architectural metal lab starting from scratch.
I don't intend to make a business out of this. I built this as a one off for a personal project. However, I have documented every step, if you guys are interested in parts and construction techniques.
I've only been doing this for about 6 months....not 30 years.
Also, 2x4s, bolts, sawhorses, and homemade shot bags DID solve the wobble issue. The issue was that there was a 40 lb rig in the middle of a span of aluminum ladder that hadnt been supported yet. Ill upload registration video to show that it was just a support issue. Sandbags, tape, and wood fixes everything on a film set :)
The software and drivers that are being used are the Academy Award winning Kuper controls system provided by Joe Lewis in Los Angeles. Thus, the acceleration, deceleration things you are seeing, are merely to show MouseJogging, and that the unit works. Using that software I can program any length, duration, animation curves, moves, etc in pan, tilt and dolly dimensions. This isn't totally a "laserwriter" dolly lol.
I've worked diligently to get this far, and it was a big deal just to make this thing move up and down a track, so why would I "scrap" a years worth of work when I'm already this close?
Ill post more updates in the future.
Charles Wood
ChrisLyon
12-09-2007, 12:22 PM
From scrap, eh? That's even more impressive. I think most people here are all about buying things rather than making them as compared to, say, dvx user. I'm still interested.
SIRAJ KUMKHE
12-09-2007, 01:20 PM
IT looks promissing go ahead you can improve it much moor.
James T Mather
12-09-2007, 01:37 PM
I think its great - and very interested. well done and keep it up - despite the above "most people here are all about buying things rather than making them" ethos - if that were true, then we'd all still be working on sony gear.
you might have the makings of a great product there. keep us posted.
filip kovcin
12-09-2007, 01:46 PM
filmfan222, check your private messages folder. thank you,
filip
ChrisLyon
12-09-2007, 02:12 PM
I didn't mean the red team was into buying equipment rather than making it. I meant that most people that are here buy their gear which is what I said. How many people here have built something as complex as this fellow has?
lotar1
12-09-2007, 02:53 PM
it's obviously got some work to go if you want to make it ready for a huge hollywood production but if you are trying to get something for personal projects and to prove that it can be done and to help other people out then great job. I would bet too that with a little prep and troubleshooting you could get it to do some amazing shots. great job either way, I haven't even made my jib yet and that's a lot less work.
digitalfx
12-09-2007, 05:25 PM
send me your resume
planetearth
12-09-2007, 08:00 PM
I'm very interested in this.
ChrisLyon
12-09-2007, 09:33 PM
Whoa... digitalfx sounds impressed. I wish I got that kind of statement... ever.
Dan Hudgins
12-10-2007, 12:22 AM
There are various Freeware CNC/CAM programs around now, some may be useful for Motion Control work, depending on if you are going to make Stop motion, or Go motion, and Animation or Real time record/playback...
Stepper and STEP/DIR Servo motor's used in such systems can be lower in cost than some packaged systems.
Various CAD programs, freeware or not, can draw out 3 axis motions, and you may be able to use several computers going at once to drive more than 3 axis...
These freeware CNC/CAM programs can also be used to make Motion Control hardware and camera accessories... See google RE subject...
>>Note, Some tasks or programs used require Windows ME (tm) or Windows XP Home SP3 (tm) with the FreeDOS FAT32 (tm) disk mounted as a slave drive. Things may work better if all disks are formatted FAT32, which should work up to 2TB per disk.<<
planetearth
12-10-2007, 08:57 AM
There are various Freeware CNC/CAM programs around now, some may be useful for Motion Control work, depending on if you are going to make Stop motion, or Go motion, and Animation or Real time record/playback...
Stepper and STEP/DIR Servo motor's used in such systems can be lower in cost than some packaged systems.
Various CAD programs, freeware or not, can draw out 3 axis motions, and you may be able to use several computers going at once to drive more than 3 axis...
These freeware CNC/CAM programs can also be used to make Motion Control hardware and camera accessories... See google RE subject...
Well I'm always looking for great solutions for Nikon DSLR (+ Red) and stop motion and have googled to the "end of google" - so if you could post or PM with some of your suggestions, I will be eternally greatful.
Akube
12-10-2007, 10:22 AM
now ure getting somewhere...
SIRAJ KUMKHE
12-10-2007, 10:25 AM
I'm very interested in this.
I AM TOO
Johnny St.Ours
12-10-2007, 10:48 AM
This is fantastic! I've actually been bugging an engineering student at UVA for the last few weeks on initiating this kind of study. I'll gladly bring a Red down to Blacksburg for some tests when I get mine- but don't hold your breath, I'm at the back of the line. Anyway, I'm in Charlottesville so if there's any way I can help at least we're close.
Petr Dvorak
12-10-2007, 12:48 PM
Filmfan222 I'm interested too!!
btw I came across this discussion on net
http://www.cinematography.net/Pages%20DW/MotionControlDesign.htm
best part is:
Industrial Light and Magic had a team of software designers working over a year trying to develop their own Apple based program. After a reputed 1 million dollars was spent on the own in-house motion control system they pulled the plug and bought a Kuper system for (then) $3,500.00 US.
Dan Hudgins
12-10-2007, 06:59 PM
I was thinking about for Stop Motion programs like mine might be useful since when you use the curve fitting you can move the source points around so they are closer at the ends of the moves, and after curve fitting you will get a smooth transision of the line segment length, that when the frames are shot will look like acceleration and deceleration.
If you oversample during stop motion then use my Fuse command in my Edit list you can murge the frames to look like motion blur, maybe a 128x oversample would work well? Over sample would also give a clean mate for blue/green screen and when you fuse the frames (after doing the composite with the plate) you get great motion blur!
With my system you might be able to sync several computers to get any number of axis by using the aux relay out to un-pause the next computer in a chain or something like that, or just use the xtals for what they do... if you need help you know where to look...
You know where to find my programs, others are like here,
http://www.linuxcnc.org/
http://www.ksc.com.hk/sharew/index.html
http://metalworking.com/shareware.html
http://www.seanet.com/~dmauch/links.htm
http://timgoldstein.com/cad_cam/Cad_CAMLinks.asp
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=d0t&q=freeware+cam+cnc&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&q=emc+cnc&btnG=Search
Anyway, you get the idea, ask for more info at CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO on yahoo groups, there is also info to be found on google groups...
You can build a 5A stepper driver for maybe $30 from parts? So free software plus maybe $50 per axis for a motor and driver? look for motors on ebay, junk yards, and so on... There is some info on my site about how to figure out the wires on random stepper motors...
>>Note, Some tasks or programs used require Windows ME (tm) or Windows XP Home SP3 (tm) with the FreeDOS FAT32 (tm) disk mounted as a slave drive. Things may work better if all disks are formatted FAT32, which should work up to 2TB per disk.<<
Erik Greensmith
12-20-2007, 09:31 PM
Maybe some smoothcam in FCP or Shake would help. after compositing, of course.
....How many people here have built something as complex as this fellow has?
I have :)
Film Ylem
12-21-2007, 12:30 PM
Really interested to see what you worked on, but it appears you have taken down the .mov files. I toyed with the idea of doing something like this back in film school, but was flamed for even suggesting such a "ludicrous" idea. :) Right. I would have tried to pull it off if I had a bit more background and some financing to embark on it. Glad you did. Please repost the files.
Best.
BASSAM MSSALATIE
12-21-2007, 12:40 PM
I have :)
show us please :weight_lift:
It's on our website. I don't want to hijack this thread so in keeping with the DIY nature of the topic I can say that you can make a reasonable motion control rig by using a few geared motors with pulleys. Like others have said though, the most import part of moco is stability... from which comes repeatability.
Mark Allen
12-21-2007, 02:52 PM
hey guys,
www.tarded.com/bodylapse/cameramoving.mov
www.tarded.com/bodylapse/firstmocotest.mov
The url's aren't working.
Film Ylem
12-21-2007, 10:10 PM
It's on our website.
And what might that URL be?
The one under my name in my signature that reduser's CSS refuses to underline even though its a link. :)