MacPro w/ AMD 5870 1GB DDR5 vs. RedRocket

[Chris Gavrilovic]

Do I need a RedRocket if I have a 5870 1GB graphics card? Is the RedRocket a rebranded ATi card as it is? Or something RED produced specially?

Thank you

[Jeff Kilgroe]

RED Rocket is something else entirely. It does not replace your primary video card. The RED Rocket only processes R3D data. Whether or not you need a a Rocket card has nothing to do with what video card you have, but rather what workflow(s) you're trying to implement.

[Chris Gavrilovic]

RED Rocket is something else entirely. It does not replace your primary video card. The RED Rocket only processes R3D data. Whether or not you need a a Rocket card has nothing to do with what video card you have, but rather what workflow(s) you're trying to implement.

20 minute workflow? Shots ranging from 10 - 60 seconds long? The MacPro also has 16GB data and an 8GB RAID. Should this suffice?

[Alexander Ibrahim]

20 minute workflow? Shots ranging from 10 - 60 seconds long? The MacPro also has 16GB data and an 8GB RAID. Should this suffice?

Uh ... do you mean you don't know what a workflow is?

Also, not too conversant in computer terminology? I doubt you have an 8GB RAID. Nah ... you are probably just an incautious poster.

Take a little more time with your posts and you'll usually get better answers.

The answer to your original question is that your Mac Pro is not enough to process Red footage efficiently except at 1/4 resolution. You need a little extra processing something to get really rolling.

Workflow is your plan to get from camera footage to finished production. What steps will you take, and what software will you use at each step, and how you are going to move the data you care about from one part of the project to another.

With Red footage I recommend most beginners use Adobe Premiere Pro CS 5.5 to edit.

You need to get an Nvidia card to help with processing the data from a Red camera. Choose one that is compatible with Adobe's Mercury engine.

At some point Apple will probably add processing of R3D data files to Final Cut Pro X (FCP X), and then I'd expect FCP X to work with Scarlet or Epic just fine with your current Mac and video card. That's because FCP X uses a technology called OpenCL, which can take advantage of the processing power of both Nvidia and ATI video cards, like Adobe Premiere can take advantage of the power of Nvidia cards with their Mercury engine.

[Dan Kanes]

Hi! Are you trying to process footage with RedCine X Pro, Adobe CS5.5 or something like Davinci Resolve (Lite)?

For CS5.5 I would recommend the best Nvidia card you can afford.

For RCX/Pro I would recommend a Redrocket

And For Davinci - I would recommend two Nvidia Cards, or perhaps two AMD/ATI cards - haven't tried that at all yet, but I Get decent one-light performance in Davinci with my single GTX470

[Chris Gavrilovic]

Uh ... do you mean you don't know what a workflow is?

Also, not too conversant in computer terminology? I doubt you have an 8GB RAID. Nah ... you are probably just an incautious poster.

Take a little more time with your posts and you'll usually get better answers.


I can't stand people like you in forums. Yes, your s**t does stink. No, you're not God. I mistakenly put GB instead of TB.
Take a little more time with your posts and you'll usually come off sounding less like a malcontent.

[Chris Gavrilovic]

Hi! Are you trying to process footage with RedCine X Pro, Adobe CS5.5 or something like Davinci Resolve (Lite)?

For CS5.5 I would recommend the best Nvidia card you can afford.

For RCX/Pro I would recommend a Redrocket

And For Davinci - I would recommend two Nvidia Cards, or perhaps two AMD/ATI cards - haven't tried that at all yet, but I Get decent one-light performance in Davinci with my single GTX470

Thank you for the tips. It would be for FCP-X <= As awful as it is.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I can't stand people like you in forums. Yes, your s**t does stink. No, you're not God. I mistakenly put GB instead of TB.
Take a little more time with your posts and you'll usually come off sounding less like a malcontent.

GB vs TB? Yeah who cares ... but in context its clear to me that you haven't even done a google search before asking, nor do you care enough to take a second look at what you wrote.

I really don't think you know what a workflow is, and I think you are trying to sound smart by throwing that word around.

Yeah, I hate that you're a know nothing poseur. I'd appreciate your situation more if you just stuck to words you knew and made sure your question made sense. There sure was a time when I didn't know what a workflow was - but I didn't pretend I did.

Now are we done pissing about?

FCP X doesn't work with Red footage today. There is a thread here trying to get people to send Apple feedback about it.

Your workflow choices are rather limited if you really want to stick to FCP X - its a bad deal for Red users right now.

Premiere CS 5.5 is really where its at for Red editorial today. That's my primary advice. If you can't get Premiere that's fine you use what you have right?

RedCineX Pro is the best free tool to get into the edit suite if you record sound on the camera. You can set some parameters and have it render overnight or whatever.

DaVinci Resolve Lite is the way to go if you didn't record sound on the camera. Its a lot faster than RedCine X Pro. It's also free. Again, you can set some parameters and just get to rendering. If you have a 5870 card you'll probably get around 1/2 realtime renders, provided you keep your parameter changes straightforward.

Both should be able to give you a format output you can edit in FCP X. Though, in FCP X I am not clear about your options if you want to stay in 4K.

[Chris Gavrilovic]

GB vs TB? Yeah who cares ... but in context its clear to me that you haven't even done a google search before asking, nor do you care enough to take a second look at what you wrote.

I really don't think you know what a workflow is, and I think you are trying to sound smart by throwing that word around.

Yeah, I hate that your a know nothing poseur. I'd appreciate your situation more if you just stuck to words you knew and made sure your question made sense. There sure was a time when I didn't know what a workflow was - but I didn't pretend I did.

Now are we done pissing about?

FCP X doesn't work with Red footage today. There is a thread here trying to get people to send Apple feedback about it.

Your workflow choices are rather limited if you really want to stick to FCP X - its a bad deal for Red users right now.

Premiere CS 5.5 is really where its at for Red editorial today. That's my primary advice. If you can't get Premiere that's fine you use what you have right?

RedCineX Pro is the best free tool to get into the edit suite if you record sound on the camera. You can set some parameters and have it render overnight or whatever.

DaVinci Resolve Lite is the way to go if you didn't record sound on the camera. Its a lot faster than RedCine X Pro. It's also free. Again, you can set some parameters and just get to rendering. If you have a 5870 card you'll probably get around 1/2 realtime renders, provided you keep your parameter changes straightforward.

Both should be able to give you a format output you can edit in FCP X. Though, in FCP X I am not clear about your options if you want to stay in 4K.

No we're not done pissing about. My original question didn't contain the word "workflow" in it. I was following up with a question from another person. So mind yo' bizniss'. And by the way, since you are so clever, its "you're". As in, "Yeah, I hate that you're a know nothing poseur." or "You're odd, you know how to spell 'poseur' correctly, but not 'you're'".

I'm aware FCP-X doesn't support R3D files. I also loathe FCP-X, but my team of editors uses it so it's really all that is on the plate.

I do appreciate your advice. What I don't appreciate is futurist hockey players that think they rule the online world of forums. Don't feel bad though, it's a common attitude shared amongst film makers for whatever reason.

Now we're done pissing.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

No we're not done pissing about. My original question didn't contain the word "workflow" in it. I was following up with a question from another person. So mind yo' bizniss'. And by the way, since you are so clever, its "you're". As in, "Yeah, I hate that you're a know nothing poseur." or "You're odd, you know how to spell 'poseur' correctly, but not 'you're'".

I'm aware FCP-X doesn't support R3D files. I also loathe FCP-X, but my team of editors uses it so it's really all that is on the plate.

I do appreciate your advice. What I don't appreciate is futurist hockey players that think they rule the online world of forums. Don't feel bad though, it's a common attitude shared amongst film makers for whatever reason.

Now we're done pissing.

You see ... you still don't get it.

You didn't know what workflow meant. You didn't look it up and you didn't ask. Instead you told us your projected show length.

That's how everyone reading knows you were trying to BS everyone here.

Like "your team of editors." (Those are the disbelieving quotes, not the literal quotes)

I don't know any facilities that have moved to FCP X. FCP X is particularly bad for team editing environments. Every facility I know that regularly uses editorial teams also uses Avid, so I'd be interested in hearing more about this team. If your team of editors is using FCP X, you should probably share that with Apple - you are probably the only ones.

I'm kidding ... I'm really just calling you on your BS again.

One more thing ... your RedUser profile is the 6th hit for you on Google with just 20 posts here. How do you want to be regarded here?

[Chris Gavrilovic]

You see ... you still don't get it.

You didn't know what workflow meant. You didn't look it up and you didn't ask. Instead you told us your projected show length.

That's how everyone reading knows you were trying to BS everyone here.

Like "your team of editors." (Those are the disbelieving quotes, not the literal quotes)

I don't know any facilities that have moved to FCP X. FCP X is particularly bad for team editing environments. Every facility I know that regularly uses editorial teams also uses Avid, so I'd be interested in hearing more about this team. If your team of editors is using FCP X, you should probably share that with Apple - you are probably the only ones.

I'm kidding ... I'm really just calling you on your BS again.

One more thing ... your RedUser profile is the 6th hit for you on Google with just 20 posts here. How do you want to be regarded here?

I can think of very few things I care less about then how I am regarded in an online forum. It's a little sad you have to bring that up in the first place. I have seen your resume, it's not terribly impressive. Since you're clearly not an all-star I can safely tell you that just because you haven't heard of facilities moving to FCP-X, it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It has; it did. By the way, the only person I have a problem with here is you. My misuse of the word "workflow" was tantamount to me saying GB instead of TB. I of course, meant timeline. This however doesn't need justification; mistakes happen. Also "That's how everyone reading knows you were trying to BS..." Let's say that I was BSing people, how is that even pertinent to my initial question of "Do I need a RedRocket?" Even if I was a pathological liar, the question merits no structure of a lie. Please, if you're going to call someone out, at least make it valid. Mistypes are no reason to be called a liar.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I can think of very few things I care less about then how I am regarded in an online forum. It's a little sad you have to bring that up in the first place. I have seen your resume, it's not terribly impressive. Since you're clearly not an all-star I can safely tell you that just because you haven't heard of facilities moving to FCP-X, it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It has; it did. By the way, the only person I have a problem with here is you. My misuse of the word "workflow" was tantamount to me saying GB instead of TB. I of course, meant timeline. This however doesn't need justification; mistakes happen. Also "That's how everyone reading knows you were trying to BS..." Let's say that I was BSing people, how is that even pertinent to my initial question of "Do I need a RedRocket?" Even if I was a pathological liar, the question merits no structure of a lie. Please, if you're going to call someone out, at least make it valid. Mistypes are no reason to be called a liar.


You know what ... you don't care about internet reputation. That's cool. Just saying ... people hire from here. I know I've been hired from this forum several times, and usually for better quality work than the usual non-union sources.

You're right, I'm not an "all star." Frankly I probably never will be, and that's actually cool with me. It's not like Roger Deakins is on here telling you what for right? So I have no clue what I'm about. Cool.

I like your credit list by the way, it has the merit of being even shorter than mine.

I was out of line. Cool. I apologize. Its an internet forum people can be too cranky, sardonic, sarcaustic (sic) and whatever humor there is doesn't translate. Maybe I've been a complete asshole. If so I apologize for that.

This whole argument is so not worth anyone's time especially mine, and I suppose I started it, which I regret.

I'll try and leave you with advice:

If you are committed to FCP X, then in the short term you will need a Rocket to be efficient in pre-processing with RedCineX Pro.

I would advise you to make low grade proxies for offline editorial, then export to Resolve and conform and grade from the R3D's directly. You can render out in target mode if needed.

I can't say with certainty what FCP X's future will be ... if they directly support Red R3D, the technology is there for FCP X to equal or exceed Premiere Pro's performance without a Red Rocket.

I think you should consider renting or buying a Rocket based on the outlook for six month returns. I've no clue what a Rocket rents for in Richmond - or if you can even rent one there. I know there are some good rental houses there, but I don't do enough business in Richmond to really give you advice about locals.

[Chris Gavrilovic]

You know what ... you don't care about internet reputation. That's cool. Just saying ... people hire from here. I know I've been hired from this forum several times, and usually for better quality work than the usual non-union sources.

You're right, I'm not an "all star." Frankly I probably never will be, and that's actually cool with me. It's not like Roger Deakins is on here telling you what for right? So I have no clue what I'm about. Cool.

I like your credit list by the way, it has the merit of being even shorter than mine.

I was out of line. Cool. I apologize. Its an internet forum people can be too cranky, sardonic, sarcaustic (sic) and whatever humor there is doesn't translate. Maybe I've been a complete asshole. If so I apologize for that.

This whole argument is so not worth anyone's time especially mine, and I suppose I started it, which I regret.

I'll try and leave you with advice:

If you are committed to FCP X, then in the short term you will need a Rocket to be efficient in pre-processing with RedCineX Pro.

I would advise you to make low grade proxies for offline editorial, then export to Resolve and conform and grade from the R3D's directly. You can render out in target mode if needed.

I can't say with certainty what FCP X's future will be ... if they directly support Red R3D, the technology is there for FCP X to equal or exceed Premiere Pro's performance without a Red Rocket.

I think you should consider renting or buying a Rocket based on the outlook for six month returns. I've no clue what a Rocket rents for in Richmond - or if you can even rent one there. I know there are some good rental houses there, but I don't do enough business in Richmond to really give you advice about locals.

I apologize as well then; sincerely. That being said, I appreciate your input. I have no problem buying a Rocket, but I didn't really know if it was a necessity or luxury. We have a few macpros so obviously dishing out 5 grand let alone 5 grand per card is something I want to make sure is worth the money - if we even need it at all. Also I have zero experience with RED, RED Format, RED editing, etc. so I really have no idea what I even need to get this first run going.

[Eric Cameron]

A RED Rocket is for one thing: accelerated transcodes from R3D (the files that come of the camera) to your choice of video or image sequence to use in your preferred editing/compositing system. You can do the same thing (take R3D's and make quicktimes etc.) without one, but it will take a LOT longer. Using a Rocket, you can transcode RED One footage with a full quality debayer in better than real time. Epic footage transcodes slightly slower than realtime with a Rocket (I typically see ~22-23 FPS). If you were to do a transcode with the same quality setting (full debayer) WITHOUT a Rocket, you would see DRASTICALLY slower speeds. So its basically a trade off between time/money/quality. A good Mac Pro can do lower quality transcodes pretty quickly. And if you have the time to just let a few computers crank away and arent in a rush to get your editorial media, you may not need a rocket. But if you end up doing a lot of work with Red footage where you need to create the transcodes, it tends to start looking like a good investment. YMMV.

[A. Bastaki]

guys.. behave. You wont lose anything by being polite.

[Chris Gavrilovic]

A RED Rocket is for one thing: accelerated transcodes from R3D (the files that come of the camera) to your choice of video or image sequence to use in your preferred editing/compositing system. You can do the same thing (take R3D's and make quicktimes etc.) without one, but it will take a LOT longer. Using a Rocket, you can transcode RED One footage with a full quality debayer in better than real time. Epic footage transcodes slightly slower than realtime with a Rocket (I typically see ~22-23 FPS). If you were to do a transcode with the same quality setting (full debayer) WITHOUT a Rocket, you would see DRASTICALLY slower speeds. So its basically a trade off between time/money/quality. A good Mac Pro can do lower quality transcodes pretty quickly. And if you have the time to just let a few computers crank away and arent in a rush to get your editorial media, you may not need a rocket. But if you end up doing a lot of work with Red footage where you need to create the transcodes, it tends to start looking like a good investment. YMMV.

Is it possible to share the processing of R3D files among several computers with the RedCineX software?

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Is it possible to share the processing of R3D files among several computers with the RedCineX software?

No.

Its best to manually split the work among several machines if needed. I usually do so by shooting unit, then by camera, then by reel.

[Will Keir]

damn guys, grow the f*** up

[Jon Jones]

LOL, this is like a daytime drama, someone got their period...

[Adam Pitchie]

This is a professional forum. No flaming. If you want to argue it out, do it in a DM or by email.

[Philipe Ratton]

closing time.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

damn guys, grow the f*** up

Adding a comment like this two months after the last comments, which were useful not argumentative, is a bit useless.

Its doubly useless when the parties "fighting" apologized to each other and moved on over months ago.

You should really keep in mind how much time has passed before contributing your voice. Especially with stupid things like this that come and go quickly.

Just to let you know how things stand ... Chris and I have talked, and he even offered to hire me for some work. I think we are cool now.

So, to reiterate, if you ever see an old flamewar, its best not to say anything at all. Chances are its all forgotten.

If it were an ongoing flamewar, well then you'd be inline to comment. In fact I welcome it ... because I seriously needed it on the day.

[Björn Benckert]

So there are some ladies at the red forum after all.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

So there are some ladies at the red forum after all.

Well, I do try and be reasonable, but sometimes I fail.

I suppose you were trying to be funny. Its sounds sexist, and provocative.

Comments like this, and the earlier comment about, "someone got their period" is why this is a boys club.

For one, I don't think a lady would have acted like I did.

(For those that missed it, that is an attempt at self effacing humor.)

Let's just drop it.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Really? This is starting again?

Nope... done.