Beta REDCINE v1.0.2 (Build 74)

[Brent@RED]

The latest version of beta REDCINE is now on the RED.com Support page. We think you will see a lot of progress since the last version. And, as always, thanks for the community feedback in this forum - it was critical in the development of this latest build.

Thanks, BC

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

The latest version of beta REDCINE is now on the RED.com Support page. We think you will see a lot of progress since the last version. And, as always, thanks for the community feedback in this forum - it was critical in the development of this latest build.

Thanks, BC

Brent you are great always with good news :clown2: thanks

[Kevin Halverson]

Hey, this version seems noticeably faster. I will need to run some benchmarks to be certain, but it sure seems so from an initial test.

[jbeale]

ANyone else see this? When I click on the "accept button" on the page to download the new Redcine, I just a huge page of garbage text- like a binary file displayed by mistake as if it were supposed to be HTML? (Using firefox 2.0.0.11. ) I was able to download it using MSIE though.

[Kevin Halverson]

I did just find one thing that seems to not be working on this installation. The RGB tool is showing 0.0000 for all three fields no matter where the tool is placed.

I will test on another, differently configured computer later and see if the results are the same.

[jbeale]

I am getting different values from the RGB tool that change as I wipe across the screen, but they do not seem to correspond correctly to the image. Eg, when the right side of the screen is bright and I put the mouse over there, the values go down to near zero.

[Bing Bailey]

Jbeale,

that happens when your web cache us full. empty it and it should download normally

Cheers

Bing

[Brent@RED]

Jbeale,

I got the same junk when I tried to download the XP version to my Mac to check to see what would happen. XP downloaded fine to PC and OSX fine to Mac....

BC

[Brent@RED]

PS, we are working on some release notes for you guys to show the new features and fixes from the last beta build (66) and this one (74). So stay tuned for those...

We just wanted to get you guys playing with 74 as quickly as we could!

BC

[Marcus Vasques Osorio]

I am getting different values from the RGB tool that change as I wipe across the screen, but they do not seem to correspond correctly to the image. Eg, when the right side of the screen is bright and I put the mouse over there, the values go down to near zero.

firefox. I had the same problem then donwloaded with IE and it worked fine...

Marcus

[Simon Blackledge]

Working way better :)

Nice alteration on the QT codecs list ;)

s

[Greg M]

firefox. I had the same problem then donwloaded with IE and it worked fine...

Marcus

Yes, the download is not compatible w/ Firefox...IE works.

[Kevin Halverson]

Installation on a different hardware platform, on this one, the RGB tool behaves correctly.

[Kevin Halverson]

Second issue discovered. With a 4187 frame 2k .r3d I generated a jpeg2k QT with a full extract at high quality. This version of RedCine did produce the QT, however after about the 50th frame, every subsequent frame is the same. The total sequence length of the QT is correct (frame count), but the contents is not.

No error arguments were generated and RedCine seemed to exit properly.

Will test on another platform when time allows.

[Brent@RED]

As promised here are the release notes for this beta build of REDCINE (Build 74):

REDCINE Release Notes - Build 74

NEW FEATURES:
------------

XML Save and Load: Timelines can be saved in an XML format allowing for data exchange with other systems such as offline editorial. Only shot timing and framing information is included, no color information is saved in the XML file. To load and XML file, the shots must first be loaded into REDCINE and then the XML is loaded and a new timeline is created.

Autodetect TOD and EDGE timecodes: REDCINE now automatically uses the timecode track that was set as PRIMARY on the camera. This ensures that all generated files will have metadata that matches the QuickTime references generated on the camera.

Separate ISO and Exposure settings: An ISO pulldown has been added to the Color Settings. This will be set initially based on the metadata embedded in the .r3d file. The Exposure slider will be set to the difference between the actual metadata value and the closest ISO value.

Detail and Sharpen options: Added options for Detail and Sharpen on the Shot menu.

Reset to Metadata: Holding down the SHIFT key while hitting 'Reset All' will reset the color values back to the metadata defaults. Hitting just 'Reset All' will reset all values to REDCINE defaults.

Timecode and REEL ID in QuickTime files: REDCINE now writes the timecode value and REEL ID into QuickTime files for use in offline editorial systems.

8- and 16-bit Quicktime: If an 8-bit file format is chosen and then the output format is switched to QuickTime, the QuickTime output will be fed an 8-bit image. Otherwise, the output will be fed a 16-bit image.

Project Resolution display: The current Project resolution and frame rate are shown in the top left of the Viewport Menu Bar. Swipe up to reveal.


FIXES:
-----

Color Match with RED ALERT: There is no longer a drastic difference between shots loaded into REDCINE and RED ALERT. REDCINE now matches the output of RED ALERT.

REEL ID in DPX files: The REEL ID is now written into the DPX headers correctly.

Current frame indicator works properly: When clicking on the current frame indicator, the proper frame number is maintained. Previously, REDCINE would jump ahead one frame without updating the frame number value.

#C option for filenames: Using #C for the filename will result in output clips with the same name as the shot in REDCINE. This is not the actual filename, but rather the name assigned within REDCINE. This allows shots to be output with a different name for each.

Output to separate folders fixed: Outputting clips to separate folders with an IN and OUT point marked in the timeline will create properly names folders now.

Highlights fixed: The Highlight value is now properly read and set.

Minimize Quick Key: The Quick Key that minimizes the REDCINE application is now shown in the Help list. Press H to see a context-sensitive Quick Key list.

[Kevin Halverson]

Just tested the same .r3d file on the same machine this time outputting a DNxHD full decode, high quality. The resultant QT file had the same issues as before. From somewhere near the 50th to the final (4187) frame, the resultant file had the same frame.

I have attached the log file for a reference.

[mikeburton]

Hey Brent,
I was just trying to test the XML exchange From Final Cut Pro 6.0.2. I exported a sequence to XML, Loaded all the clips that would reference that data into REDCINE (Newest Version) and I keep getting this error,
"Failed to Load Construct"
What am i doing wrong?

[MichaelP]

I am seeing the same thing. Created a construct of 2 shots, at that point in the first shot the frame froze for the entire duration of the two shots. Also, how does the XML get generated? I did a quick look but it was not obvious to me. Application still needs to choose the DNxHD codec - only choice is DNxHD145 by default.

Michael

[Kevin Halverson]

Switching back to previous build to confirm that it generates correct output on the same hardware platform (which it seemed to up until the install of the latest build).

[Simon Blackledge]

Can someone explain what this xml feature is for ? is this the pull list option?

In RedAlert you generate QT for fcp

edit

export xml

import xml into redcine

? is that the usage? or do we need to export slower actual QT from redcine to offline with ?

[mikeburton]

I could be wrong, but, I think this is supposed to be the pull list. Brent's last email stated that the XML is loaded and a new timeline is created. I can only assume that it would be creating the pull list feature everyone has been drooling for since REDCINE came out.
Although, they did say it would not be a conform tool so i am curious to test this function and see what it gives us, but I must be doing something wrong, cause it does not want to work for me:)

[Brent@RED]

I am having our REDCINE gurus looks at this forum after giving you guys some time to bang on this release and post feedback...

BC

[jieves]

could you guys post any specific requirements that the XML must conform to in order to be able to be understood by Redcine 1.0.2?

[Dan]

Yep, getting 'Failed to load Constuct' as well. Anyone actually got this to work?

[Simon Blackledge]

Ok but what are you trying to conform ?

an xml from an export of a fcp timeline with QT wrapped exports from RedAlert in it ?

Or are these all qt in fcp exported the slower way via Redcine to a codec?

Cheers

Si

[Nick Shaw]

I'm thinking this is just one step on the way to a pull list. Redcine can now save and load XML, but I'm guessing (not in front of an Intel Mac now so can't test) that Redcine XML is not directly compatible with FCP XML. Perhaps it's just an XML description of the Redcine timeline (which is editorially much less complex than an FCP timeline).

Now if somebody (not necessarily Red) wrote an XML parser which could translate FCP XML to Redcine XML…

[Brent@RED]

For you XP users, I made the download of REDCINE off of the support page a zip file so you should more success downloading with Firefox...

BC

[Dan]

Ok but what are you trying to conform ?

an xml from an export of a fcp timeline with QT wrapped exports from RedAlert in it ?

Or are these all qt in fcp exported the slower way via Redcine to a codec?

Cheers

Si
I'm trying to conform xml from FCP using Quicktime proxies generated by RedAlert. Tried all three different size proxies but nothing doing.

[mikeburton]

I'm trying to conform from Quicktime Proxies made and copies straight from the camera which hold all the necessary meta data that REDCINE should need to pull the clips, ie. Clip Name, Timecode, etc.
I think it just might not be fully enabled yet?
Looking forward to seeing how it translates though!!!

[Mike Zinner]

Great to see many things are fixed. But I am missing the fix for

* Quicktime 4096x2048 exports to 16-bit QT codecs fails

Did that get addressed in this build or is it still open? Sorry, cannot verify it at the moment.

[Mark L. Pederson]

It's working for us now.

Just ran a bunch of tests and started 15 hour renders on two 8-core workstations.

Good job guys.

(feature wish list coming after Holidays)

[Kevin Halverson]

Wish I could say that I am having the same experience that Mark is with this build, but on several machines (all PCs) that I have tried it on, the same results as previously mentioned. I am going to go back to the previous build and test again.

Kevin

[mikeburton]

Mark,
could you elaborate more on how you got it to work?

[Terry Wester]

Just did a test on all the footage I have. About 5 minutes worth of .r3d fills took a little less than 5 minutes to make Avid DV quicktimes. Using a MacPro 8core running bootcamp. Not that the Avid can read it, but it is exporting the correct timecode. MetaCheater reads it fine.

Terry

[Terry Wester]

It's working for us now.

Just ran a bunch of tests and started 15 hour renders on two 8-core workstations.

Good job guys.

(feature wish list coming after Holidays)

Mark,
I am very curious how your 15 hour render comes out. Please keep us informed.

Thanks,
Terry

[Greg M]

so is it supporting all 8 cores now?

[JustMe]

so is it supporting all 8 cores now?

Cool but GFX cards are still in Limbo, Should we go by ASSIMILATE specs. , for windows?

[Mark L. Pederson]

Just popped in to check on renders -
all is well -
we have 3.4 hours of 2K going to 1920 x 1080 Prores 422 + about 30 minutes of 4K 2:1 going to 1920 x 1080 Prores 422
4K stuff done already (about 1.5 hours on a Quad core)

tests show "almost" a 2X speed increase on 8-core vs 4-core -

buy the 8-core (actually wait - new boxes soooooooo close)

(x1900 cards)

[mikeburton]

Does anyone have the XML Interchange working properly yet?

[Stacey Spears]

at that point in the first shot the frame froze for the entire duration of the two shots.

khmuse, Michael,

If you switch process from full to standard, does it work? I encountered this behavior with the previous version. I have not had a chance to try build 74 yet to see if it still occurs.

[Kevin Halverson]

Hey Stacey,

Thanks for the suggestion, I will try that out next. I just did a test using "full" to generate a DPX sequence from the same 2k .r3d file and it appears to be fine, no stuck frames.

I will report back once I complete the test using "standard" with build 74.

Thanks again for the suggestion,

Kevin Halverson

[ZiggY]

Im runing a MacBook Pro 15" and when I start the new RedCine it flashes up for 1 sec and then it shuts down??? Any thoughts???

Model Identifier: MacBookPro1,1
Processor Name: Intel Core Duo
Processor Speed: 2.16 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache (per processor): 2 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 667 MHz

[Dan]

Did any of you guys get to the bottom of the single frame Quicktime problem? I've just installed the new build and it still won't export Quicktime, DPX is fine. According to the log file...


14:27:57.30 WARN : QT: Failed to get the compression data size (error -50)..

# : Repeated 47 times

[Kevin Halverson]

Retested per Stacey's suggestion and the results are identical with this build. It generates a full length sequence QT (DNxHD) but past about the 50th frame the image is static.

I would be curious to know if any PC RedCine users are getting valid output on long sequence .r3d files with this build? If so, could you share your log file?

[jieves]

It seems that some have the XML interchange working properly, while a lot of us do not... can someone who does have it working post their steps and any special notes on the XML file they generated, hopefully directly from FCP 6.0.2?

[Álex Montoya]

Is it possible that the noise is more organic with this version?

[Mark L. Pederson]

Im runing a MacBook Pro 15" and when I start the new RedCine it flashes up for 1 sec and then it shuts down??? Any thoughts???

Model Identifier: MacBookPro1,1
Processor Name: Intel Core Duo
Processor Speed: 2.16 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache (per processor): 2 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 667 MHz
Run Onyx (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20070) and try again.

[Kevin Halverson]

I ended up bailing on this build and went back to the previous one. At least now its generating usable output again.

Still would like to know if anyone has had success on the PC version?

[MichaelP]

I was using Standard when processing to DNxHD and still got the stuck frame.

Michael

[Gavin Greenwalt]

There's a bit of a typo in your license:

"LICENSED PRODUCT

Licensed Product:

Qty* Description 1 RED Alert! 1 REDCINE 1 RED Quick

Quantity represents one authorized concurrent user per camera.
"

[Kevin Halverson]

I was using Standard when processing to DNxHD and still got the stuck frame.

Michael

Same here, stuck frame with any process level on this build.

Kevin

[Cail Young]

Im runing a MacBook Pro 15" and when I start the new RedCine it flashes up for 1 sec and then it shuts down??? Any thoughts???

Model Identifier: MacBookPro1,1
Processor Name: Intel Core Duo
Processor Speed: 2.16 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache (per processor): 2 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 667 MHz

You should do a Repair Permissions on your system HD in Disk Utility, and you will also need to log on as an administrative user if you are not already for the first startup of REDCINE - I'm not sure if you need to do so starting a new version for the first time but it can't hurt.

EDIT: I was having this problem with the initial release - it was caused by my non-admin user being unable to write to the /Library directory, which REDCINE wants to do.

[Cail Young]

Feature request: under OS X, authorisation request from REDCINE when it fails to write to /Library instead of a crashout. Many other programs are able to ask for a user/password to temporarily act as admin when required, so I imagine it should be reasonably trivial.

[mikeburton]

I have tried every setting imaginable with the XML Export option out of FCP 6.0.2 to attempt to load into REDCINE 1.0.2 without any luck :(
I keep getting the same error everytime I try to load the XML into REDCINE,
"Failed to Load Construct".
Has anyone gotten this to work and if so please explain how you managed to do it!
Thanks

[Nick Shaw]

Saving a Redcine project as XML seems to work, in as much as you can then open the XML in a text editor, and the details of the project are all there. However, when you open the XML in Redcine it does not seem to pick up on all the attributes, in particular the clip in/out points (called <handles>in the XML). This is obviously a very improtant one for pull lists.

One other issue is that when you save a 25fps project with 25fps clips as XML, then look at the XML in a text editor, the project frame rate shows as 25fps, but the clip frame rates are listed as 24 fps.

[jieves]

What about importing an XML generated from FCP?

[Greg M]

I have tried every setting imaginable with the XML Export option out of FCP 6.0.2 to attempt to load into REDCINE 1.0.2 without any luck :(
I keep getting the same error everytime I try to load the XML into REDCINE,
"Failed to Load Construct".
Has anyone gotten this to work and if so please explain how you managed to do it!
Thanks


Same issue here, we cant load the XML into Red Cine (Failed to Load Construct).

[Lucas Wilson]

Same issue here, we cant load the XML into Red Cine (Failed to Load Construct).

Guys,

XML is not a "universal" thing. FCP XML will not load into REDCINE, so stop trying. :) XML is merely a common and organized way of formatting text. It does not mean that XML from one program will load into another program.

The best analogy I can draw is that English and Welsh are written with the same Roman characters. Doesn't mean they're the same language and that English speakers will understand Welsh.

XML is the roman characters - a lower level of organization. The meaning and content (FCP, SCRATCH, REDCINE, etc.) is what is contained and organized by the characters.

Or better put - learn Welsh. It's a cool language.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA (...but currently in Hong Kong)

[MichaelP]

How does one save out the XML from RedCine?

Michael

[M Most]

Guys,

XML is not a "universal" thing. FCP XML will not load into REDCINE, so stop trying. :) XML is merely a common and organized way of formatting text. It does not mean that XML from one program will load into another program.

Another way of saying this is that XML is not a file format. It's a programming language. Hence the name ("eXtensible Markup Language"), much like HTML. Unfortunately companies like Apple have inadvertently (or perhaps not, who knows) perpetuated the belief that XML represents some kind of new version of an EDL when in fact that is hardly the case.

[Nick Shaw]

How does one save out the XML from RedCine?

Michael

Just put .XML on the end of the file name when you save a Redcine project.

[MichaelP]

Got it, thanks!

[Greg M]

Guys,

XML is not a "universal" thing. FCP XML will not load into REDCINE, so stop trying. :) XML is merely a common and organized way of formatting text. It does not mean that XML from one program will load into another program.

The best analogy I can draw is that English and Welsh are written with the same Roman characters. Doesn't mean they're the same language and that English speakers will understand Welsh.

XML is the roman characters - a lower level of organization. The meaning and content (FCP, SCRATCH, REDCINE, etc.) is what is contained and organized by the characters.

Or better put - learn Welsh. It's a cool language.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA (...but currently in Hong Kong)


OK...then what does this mean and how exactly are we supposed to load our shots into Red Cine??:

XML Save and Load: Timelines can be saved in an XML format allowing for data exchange with other systems such as offline editorial. Only shot timing and framing information is included, no color information is saved in the XML file. To load and XML file, the shots must first be loaded into REDCINE and then the XML is loaded and a new timeline is created.

[Lucas Wilson]

OK...then what does this mean and how exactly are we supposed to load our shots into Red Cine??:

XML Save and Load: Timelines can be saved in an XML format allowing for data exchange with other systems such as offline editorial. Only shot timing and framing information is included, no color information is saved in the XML file. To load and XML file, the shots must first be loaded into REDCINE and then the XML is loaded and a new timeline is created.

It is exactly what it says it is - a way of saving some timeline information for data exchange with other systems.

Put together a timeline in REDCINE. Now save an XML file. Open it in a text editor. It contains all the information for the shots you loaded into REDCINE.

There are a ton of uses for this. Final Cut XML can be translated to REDCINE XML, and that is a pull-list. REDCINE XML can be translated into a batch script for loading files into another system like iQ or Smoke. REDCINE XML can be used to automate an archival process to LTO tape for circle takes.

I'm sure that this is just the first step in what will be a more expanded and explained XML schema for REDCINE.

Think of this exactly as it says in the Release Notes - it is a method by which data exchange can be facilitated with other systems.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Gavin Greenwalt]

It creates the foundation for the tools you want to be made.

It's just like command line support. It doesn't inherently build you a render farm and efficient pipeline, but it does give you the means of creating one with sufficient time and resources.

[Simon Blackledge]

So basicaly you save this xml from redcine...

Load that into the red import option in fcp and that pulls in all the clips as redcode and decodes on the fly.

export via some new thing :-/ and import that into redcine...

fingers crossed....
s

[M Most]

So basicaly you save this xml from redcine...

Load that into the red import option in fcp and that pulls in all the clips as redcode and decodes on the fly.


No. You're either not reading what's been said here, or you're not listening.

The only thing Redcine and Final Cut XML files have in common is that they're both written using a particular programming language (XML). The information in either one must be extracted and translated to something the other understands. That translation layer is not currently being supplied to you by either Red or Apple. Final Cut does not import or understand Redcine files, and Redcine does not import or understand Final Cut files. At some point in the future, someone or multiple someones will write software to translate between those files for specific uses, such as pull list generation. That hasn't happened yet.

And by the way, the specific XML tags and file format used in Redcine is, I believe, identical to that of Scratch. And we and a number of others have been asking for such a translator (i.e., Final Cut XML files to Scratch for EDL import) for quite some time. The problem, at least in part, stems from trying to make a single video layer program (i.e., Scratch or Redcine) understand files generated from a multiple video layer environment (i.e., Final Cut or Avid). That requires either multiple files or clever sorting in order to be effective, although in the case of creating only a pull list this is less of a problem.

[fightordie]

Shooting film seems so much easier to me now.

[Simon Blackledge]

mmost...

I think that should just be "reading", or understanding what your reading.. unsure how to listen on here.. moot point?



Anyway, totally my fault. I said fingers crossed, ie workflow I hope for. Apologies if that was unclear..


I know what is possible now and some of what is coming.

I didn't considers the layers holdup in xml though.. so thanks for that one.



s

[Gavin Greenwalt]

So basicaly you save this xml from redcine...

Load that into the red import option in fcp and that pulls in all the clips as redcode and decodes on the fly.

export via some new thing :-/ and import that into redcine...

fingers crossed....
s

That's exactly what this allows us to do... once someone writes the bolded parts.

Or replace FCP with Avid, Adobe... etc etc.

[Simon Blackledge]

all good things come to those that wait.. lol..

I hate waiting! :)

s

[Nick Shaw]

Red have always said that Redcine won't read EDLs, just pull lists. To me this means a list of the shots used in the edit, with in and out marks, but no knowledge (or need for knowledge) of how those shots go together in the edit. Conforming those shots together into a programme is the job of the online editing system, which Redcine was never intended to be.

The simplest way of making a pull list in FCP is to media manage the timeline to an offline sequence with handles. The new Master Clips bin is then effectively a pull list. The bin can be exported as XML, and a tool could be written to convert this to Redcine XML. Sadly my programming skills are not up to the job, but I'm sure somebody on this forum could do it.

Currently you need to load the shots into Redcine before loading the XML, but I'm sure future versions will not have this requirement, as Redcine XML contains full paths for the .R3D files.

So the challenge is set… Anybody want to take it up?

[Greg M]

Red have always said that Redcine won't read EDLs, just pull lists. To me this means a list of the shots used in the edit, with in and out marks, but no knowledge (or need for knowledge) of how those shots go together in the edit. Conforming those shots together into a programme is the job of the online editing system, which Redcine was never intended to be.



It should allow us to import an edl from final cut (from an offline proxy edit) directly into Red Cine so that you can SIMPLY export the shots as 4K or whatever DPX or TIFF files for ON-LINE Editorial. And by "simply" I mean it should be a simple export and import.

[MichaelP]

A pull list will more accurate if exported by the NLE since a sequence can get quite complex with FX and layers that an EDL cannot express. One could create an XML to XML filter from any type of NLE if needed. Next step is managing changes... that is always fun.

Michael

[ShaunLav]

Has anyone seen this problem with the latest version... it just gives its own TC and not from source. Everything as properly set, the same way it has been since I started working with Redcine, but it doesn't give Source TC

[Rob Lohman]

are you loading multiple input clips and generating a single output movie?

[sbaechler]

Hi

I'm missing the fps display in this version that shows the actual playback speed. I think this is very important so the director doesn't freak out when he watches the footage and thinks it was all shot in slow motion :wink:

Is there a way to edit quicktime settings in the output dialog?

-Simon

[Mark L. Pederson]

It should allow us to import an edl from final cut (from an offline proxy edit) directly into Red Cine so that you can SIMPLY export the shots as 4K or whatever DPX or TIFF files for ON-LINE Editorial. And by "simply" I mean it should be a simple export and import.
You will be able to import a FCP XML and do that.

[Andrew M.]

I am changing the Details and Sharpen option and I do not see any affect on the preview screen.
Is this change going only to the output file or we should see the effect of this change right on the preview screen.

Also highlight slider in the color menu do not show any change on the screen and on the histogram. All other sliders are working fine showing change on the preview screen and on the histogram.
Could someone try it and confirm that what I see is what others see.

Andrew