Mac or PC

[Chris L]

I've always been a fan of OSX. But I'm debating whether or not my next computer should be a mac or a PC
I will be going to college soon for video production and graphic design, and I'm not sure what to get. I want to build a desktop, as high end as I can get (64GB RAM, Core i7 ivy bridge when it comes out, flagship - overclocked, SSDs, SLI/Crossfire). First off, the only reason I would get a mac is for FCP. Although I've never used it extensively, I do like the interface. But all of my work before has been done in Premiere Pro/After Effects. If I had a PC, I would probably get Avid. So basically, is FCP so more superior than Avid that I should give up more customization, slower RAM, less SSDs, 3gbps instead of 6, and lower-end graphics all for FCP? thanks

[Colin Sheldon]

No. FCP7 is old and slow, and FCPX doesn't support r3d. I'd recommend going PC.

[Chris L]

FCPX will support red in the future though... and i dont wanna spend a ton of money on a computer and regret it three months later

[Colin Sheldon]

If you want to be safe then pick pc components that will work in a hackintosh as well.

But it seems more risky to buy a system with limited performance and expandability(red rocket, etc) for editing software that may or may not work with r3d in the future and may or may not be accepted by the pro editing community.

None of the local pro editing facilities near me have gone to fcpx. Most of the ones that did have fcp7 are switching to avid. How awesome will fcpX have to become to get them to switch back, and will in be during the lifespan of your machine (2-4 years)?

[Brian Robbins]

My newest computer is a PC. I was waiting on a new Mac Pro tower to come out but I got tired of waiting and needed a better system now. Lenovo and HP both make great computers that could serve as an alternative or better solution than a Mac. Or build it yourself if you have the know how.

I wouldn't call FCP superior to Avid at all.

[Luc Bouvrette]

Mac + PP.

[Trevor Meeks]

The fact that I've been computer trouble-free for 7 years since I switched to mac has been a huge deal for me. I used FCP and still do for some things, but I'm transitioning to Adobe CS 5.5 — an easy thing to do really. 64-bit, can map the key commands to match FCP to make the transition easier, supports R3Ds in the timeline etc etc etc... Mac + Premiere is really the best of both worlds. I'll never touch a PC again. (And of course I have no plans of touching FCPX either :scared: )

[D Fuller]

You can run Avid on a Mac or a PC.
You can run Premiere on a Mac or a PC.
You can run After Effects on a Mac or a PC.
FCP is dead if you are editing Red.
But Resolve runs on a Mac.

Buy the computer you want.

[Chris L]

@Brian lol I wouldnt buy one I'd build one, so my options are endless. @everyone else I'd love a mac pro IF they get updated... and can support two graphics cards in x16 (One for gaming, one for editing) I guess I'll just wait and see.

[Brian Robbins]

I needed a better system now, so I opted for a PC but if you don't actually need a system now just wait it out. There's always something newer/ cooler a few months away. If you can afford to wait for the next best thing...why not.

[Ron Lagerlof]

I just bought a new MB Pro, 17", 8GB ram, 256GB SSD and am installing a 512GB SSD in place of the optical drive. Thunderbolt interface to Black Magic Ultra Studio 3D interface running both Premier Pro and AVID. Entire system, way faster then my Mac Pro, under $5K (plus software) Here's the deal... if you own FCP, do a crossgrade to AVID for $1499 (you just missed the $995 deal with a free upgrade to Media Composer 6 - which I just got) If you own other Adobe products, for example, I owned Photoshop 5, you can get the entire suite upgrade for about $1000 that includes Premier Pro and After Effects.
Best thing is, if you need to run Windows, do it on boot camp. So much better than any of my old PCs. In fact I just converted my last two over to Mac Minis to run my accounting software and AutoCAD workstations. And, my Apple stock almost hit $400 again today... Got AAPL?

[Sven Seynaeve]

pc+ppro or pc+avid or pc+vegas

for stability: pc+edius big time!!!! unfortunatelly not r3d support yet.

[Jean Pierre]

I agree with Ron, I have both Mac and PC but I prefer Mac I have a MB Pro 17 and 13 and both with 8gb ram and 1tb solid drive, and for the programs I use Adobe Master Collection, but if I need something from Windows I use Paralell Desktop that you can use for install like a complete windows on your Mac running like another program, and for desktop Apple Cinema Display its the best.

[Tim Morten]

PC hands down. Mac will never have the video driver performance of PC - just doesn't have enough market share to motivate nVidia and ATI to invest the time.

As much as certain acolytes will try to tell you otherwise, FCPX = iMoviePlus.

[Matt Gottshalk]

You can run Avid on a Mac or a PC.
You can run Premiere on a Mac or a PC.
You can run After Effects on a Mac or a PC.
FCP is dead if you are editing Red.
But Resolve runs on a Mac.

Buy the computer you want.

Resolve will be out for PC after the new year.

[SUNILPREM]

Resolve will be out for PC after the new year.
Resolve Windows beta version just came out
http://blackmagic-design.com/support/detail/?os=win&sid=3948&pid=11735&leg=false

[Matt Gottshalk]

Sweet.

[Brian Merlen]

1. He is a student he said, Avid will cost him 195 dollars. The whole suite from videoguys had all the 3rd party software included for 500ish when i got avid 5.0 as a student myself, not sure if its still set up that way but you should look into that. you want the whole suite if your gonna get it. plus 4 years of free upgrades! best student deal out there
2. again cs5.5 as a student is pretty cheap as well, like 500ish?
3. find out on what NLE your school uses, go with that unless your 100 percent sure EVERYTHING you buy is compatible. ports on drives, software between NLE systems, every damned thing, the smallest detail will sink your compatibility. they most likely aren't on new software versions unless they just updated the facility
4. building systems ahead of your needs is foolish, you can't anticipate future needs. if your not in a film school your probably gonna be shooting beta, dv or some other ancient codec/format. find out what your school uses and buy for that, don't assume your gonna be cutting stereo 3d epic r3ds anytime soon and "might" need a super computer, that is going to cost you a ton and get you nothing...

point of fact EVERY mac pro has the older sata port, and no thunderbolt? how far ahead are those guys who dropped 5k? they got hosed is what happened. plus when ivy bridge drops and the 4k tvs drop this year then what? buying now into old tech is a bad move unless you can make the money back in folds before april/may... students cant make money for their lives typically, other then the best ones i ever met. those kinds of students are few and far between

i cant recommend mac or pc until fcpx either becomes accepted or dies out. its too early to make that call. i wouldn't even buy it now if i were you, until its either mainstream like the predecessor or is officially shunned by everyone. so far the second one seems more likely to me, but im not upgrading until a definitive answer appears...

this all being said your school has computer labs with all the NLE stuff you will need. lots of people dont blow 5k on gear, they use the schools for free. the school is your rental house as your a student there, use it for what its for while you can. you cant use it when you stop paying them....that 100k switcher is gone...

ps if your into graphic design buying CS5.5 is your best bet....

and if u go with mac buy barebones and upgrade ram/ssds/hdds/anything at owc. owc is great compared to mac prices. i wish i had known about them when i was a student...

so that is about it, i was in your shoes not so long ago, good luck its tough out there and i ain't kidding. its so tough i work for nbc for free, its that tough lol

which brings up another good point: students and recent grads hardly land paying work, and when they do the pay sucks. so really factor that into purchase choices you make. you might need that super computer cash for a car, school debt, paying rent, etc. if i could take everything back i would never have gone to school and bought a red package and a car. no one cares about your degree just your reel/portfolio. see my thread about "getting a scarlet or an MFA"... some of the best guys on here don't care what degree you have... what your gpa was, etc

no one cares about schooling in this business. my grades don't matter to anyone or my awards. its very shotty since i worked hard for them... and i feel pretty annoyed that i was stuck in there bustin my butt for a 3.25 and all the awards i got and none of it matters to anyone. i am still working for 0 dollars just like my friend is at nbc who got probably less then a 2.0.... in this economy recent grads are going to work for free for the rest of their lives potentially lol, its really bad man...consider switching majors while you still can. you can always shoot if you like to, or cut, for fun. making it your job wont make it fun necessarily. you might end up working for free for some daytime talk show you don't even like... :crazy:

[M Most]

no one cares about schooling in this business. my grades don't matter to anyone or my awards. its very shotty since i worked hard for them... and i feel pretty annoyed that i was stuck in there bustin my butt for a 3.25 and all the awards i got and none of it matters to anyone. i am still working for 0 dollars just like my friend is at nbc who got probably less then a 2.0.... in this economy recent grads are going to work for free for the rest of their lives potentially lol, its really bad man...consider switching majors while you still can. you can always shoot if you like to, or cut, for fun. making it your job wont make it fun necessarily. you might end up working for free for some daytime talk show you don't even like... :crazy:

While it's generally true that nobody in the film industry really cares what school you went to, or what degree you might or might not have, your statement is a bit - I don't really know how to say this without it potentially sounding harsh - naive. Education is vitally important to moving up in this business, perhaps more so than in any other I can think of. Except that education is not trade school. If all one wants to do is operate a camera, or perhaps be a really good AC, that's fine. But if one has ambitions to be an artist - and I very much consider cinematography an art form - one will eventually find themselves in meetings, conversations, and working relationships with directors, writers, actors, and other cinematographers in which a lack of education, especially in the arts, is not only harmful, but often fatal. Directors as a group, at least at the higher levels of the industry, are among the smartest and most well educated people I've ever met. They will often talk in terms of existing artistic works - both well known and obscure - for both simple reference and inspiration, and expect that any of their close collaborators (and the cinematographer is one of the principle ones) are familiar with what they're talking about, can keep up with them, and can use those things as a jumping off point, a kind of shortcut for "this is what I have in mind." To be an artist, at least in part, one needs to be intimately familiar with the great works of the past, and in many situations this is expected. Education is not about learning how the camera works. It is about establishing a deep and lasting relationship with paintings, sculpture, architecture, music, and literature. It is about widening one's mind beyond being able to use a light meter. A rejection of education simply because it doesn't directly lead to a job is a rejection of the true meaning and value of artistic expression, both others and your own. And that is a sad commentary.

As I said, I don't know how to put this in a way that doesn't sound harsh. But it always pains me when people think of education as a financial investment that should have an immediate and significant financial payoff, because that's not what it's about at all. Unfortunately, most people only realize this years later.....

[Bérenger Brillante]

Mac or PC is the same since Windows 7 is out.
Both are stable. And both have roughly the same software. It's now a matter of graphic interface, price, and availability of components, thus speed.

GUI is better on mac, but PC wins on prices and performance. And you have apple like skins for w7 :)

I really like the combo Macbook, iphone, ipad though.
But Macpros? It has ALWAYS been really too expensive for what it is.

[Brian Merlen]

M Most, while I can appreciate education is more then just a simple financial investment (grew up with a teacher as a parental unit), many schools market themselves as such investments, and many students take on 30k plus in debt with such investments based on wage statistics about success rates of such investments and the weak economy giving little other non minimum wage opportunities. My community college had a slogan "Get you there faster". Clearly such marketing isn't derived from the consumer student end, its created by the state and film schools as a marketing tool (in addition to parental pressures for income). If a dense understanding of art and the greatest films of all time is all it takes to excel, then school is even more irrelevant because you can read the same books and watch the same clips without shelling out thousands of dollars every few months to do so. I am lucky to only owe in the tens of thousands, some people I know owe over a hundred thousand because they wanted an Ivy League brand name on their piece of paper and attended outside their state of residency.

I think its important to let people know what they are getting into financially. The first part of my thread at the very least showed him how cheap software can be obtained as a student, so that surely was helpful, and the middle part reminded him of the schools own vast inventory of gear, which can help him avoid needing his own for probably his entire time as a student if he used the labs he has access to effectively. Personally my professors didn't sit around telling us how great the industry is, they talked about all the bad clients, the long hours, the time the director made them work 18 hours without a lunch break and they quit espn. Maybe its because I am in broadcast and not film, but I see my technical knowledge as more of a trade then an art. I know computer ports, how to use a Kayak Grass Valley switcher, took reducation, an emphasis on the technical side of stuff, etc. I am just trying to pay off debt but considering the economy and the fact that entry level positions tend to be unpaid for months on end I think its good to warn people of the bad parts too. You can always make art on your spare time, but working in broadcast (or film) when you start out is a far cry from making art. We answer phones and get coffee for free, we aren't even allowed to use equipment unless we're on staff and unionized at most broadcast firms. Students should be aware of how terrible the market is and how non glorified entry level positions are, otherwise they might as well make a living doing something else and can do film on the side as a hobby, the way most artists simply cannot derive an income based on their artistic goals/talents.

Perhaps the financial issues are no concern to his family, and I shouldn't worry about someone else's stafford loans. These days though I hardly know any students that didn't take on at least some financial debt to get an education and wanting to purchase a super high end system while probably making little to no return on the system as a student is probably not the wisest of financial moves when free school equipment is available to him. The technology progresses so quickly its darn hard to get a return on your gear as a student before the gear is so outdated its not necessarily useful or compatible with the newer gear. Even with two college degrees I am still struggling to pay off my gear with CL jobs that never seem to pay good enough and for my real "job" I get paid 0 while needing to take credits as a graduate simply to qualify for the unpaid internship(s). Not everyone makes art in this industry, especially entry level people in the worst economy in years. I would venture to say if you can find an entry level position where you get to touch more then a phone or a coffee machine you are doing better then most unpaid interns are.

Most of my views are based on broadcast though, so perhaps the film industry is a little better. I like consistency in pay and need consistency in health coverage due to pre existing conditions, so film freelancing isn't my priority unless I can use it to pay my rent and health insurance, which so far I find impossible to do so. I want to have the newest NLE computer just like he does, but truthfully there are far better investments to be had then the best computer of that month, like for one, just keeping your electricity on to use your current NLE gear is a good start.

Both the schools I attended (state schools) are still using SD cameras for most classes excluding a couple HDV Canon's and one DSLR. Finding out what gear his school shoots on, what NLE software they cut on, and either utilizing what he has available for free (actually its not free, its costing him thousands to have access to that gear), or buying a system based on having compatibility with what they use at the school should be the priority. Schools are essentially rental houses that also teach courses, if your going to shell out all that money; try to get your moneys worth and use their gear as much as possible is all I am saying. Truthfully the schools have enough gear so that the poorer students don't need to buy even a laptop or a computer these days, they have labs with literally hundreds of terminals on campus.

[M Most]

Brian, it sounds like you're having a hard time making a go of it, and for that, I'm sorry. It's very difficult to have real perspective when you're only a short time away from being a student, but it's much easier as years pass. I wasn't trying to ask you to ignore your curent plight, or the plight of others in your situation. Frankly, I'm very happy and consider myself rather fortunate to not be growing up in the current world climate, and I'm not talking about the weather. Of course, when I was growing up, we had a draft, civil strife, lots of inequality, and illegal wars to contend with, so every generation has its issues, some more personal than others (then again, on the up-side, we did have pretty good music...... :thumbup: )

All of us who work in the industry, even those of us who have been in it a long time, went through "entry level" problems when we started out. All of us worked for free, or close to it, and all of us had to do a lot on our own time to learn what we had to learn in a technical sense. That comes with the territory. But what I said in the earlier post still stands, because eventually anyone with ambition wants to move to the next level, and the next level is not about technical expertise or computer skills. It's about being literate and intelligent and knowledgeable about the things that really matter. Self education in the arts is possible, but it's not nearly as effective as structured education because in a structured environment, you're introduced to things you might not have known you'd find interesting or meaningful. You're also forced to study things you might not have an interest in, and for which you see no real future purpose, only to discover as you go through your career that these things have real meaning. Anyone going to school is well aware of the financial commitment. If you see the claims of some schools as advertising, well, yes, that's exactly what it is. Colleges are businesses, whether you think of them that way or not, and businesses need customers. For colleges, their students are those customers, and new applicants are their future customers. Unlike private businesses, however, colleges also have endowments, grants, and private contributors, so it's not all done for pure profit. Has it gotten too expensive to get a higher education? Well, in many cases, yes. I can't do anything about that, but I can state from my own experience that the experience one gets during that unique period in one's life when they're old enough to understand some things but young enough to have no serious financial or family responsibilities can either be extremely useful and transforming, or it can be a couple of years of sex, drugs, rock and roll, and little benefit for one's future life. It's up to the individual. The financial reality is not to be ignored. But the potential personal growth factors should also not be ignored, although as I've said, most of that can only be appreciated with the passage of time. That's one of the main paradoxes of life. When you're in the middle of financial hardship, a bad economy, and little immediate up side, it's a bit difficult to see anything else, I get that. But in time, you'll come to see all of this a bit differently, whether you can believe that right now or not.

One thing I would say about the quick obsolescence of equipment these days is that hard as it may be to accept, that's the price to be paid for so-called "democratization." I really hate that word, because to me the more correct term is "cheapening." As things get cheaper, the value of those who use those things gets cheaper as well. Many here claim otherwise, but in my opinion it's absolutely the case. The way around it is probably to divorce oneself from the equipment and become as versatile as one can be, so that when a potential employer looks at you, they don't see someone who's going to demand more equipment, but someone who's going to bring a wide skill set to the table. As you said, investments in equipment should only come when one is working regularly and can make that investment pay for itself within a rather short time frame. In today's world, that short time frame probably needs to be less than a year, because as you also said, by then the investment is at least somewhat obsolete. I know Red has always used the "obsolescence obsolete" mantra, but the truth is that a Red One became a lot less valuable and attractive when the Epic finally showed up. No upgrade is going to change an older box into a new, spiffy one. And once again, that rather short shelf life is the price to be paid for "cheap stuff," like it or not.

I do wish you the best, it sounds a bit like you need it. But keep your chin up and keep plugging away. And don't ignore the need for an education in the arts in an industry that at its highest levels is steeped in it.

[Brian Merlen]

Thanks for the support, I am mostly just hoping this kid doesn't dump too much into gear he doesn't really need. Freelance is tough right now, its insane for us novices ya know? Plus unexpected expenses come up, like being diagnosed with cancer or something... Unfortunately my exact situation my first year outta school....

You bring up a valid point with the prices of our tools getting cheaper our day rates sure aren't like they were when you needed a 200,000 dollar Avid machine, or a 200,000 35mm. Its totally nuts right now how quick the technology is changing, I think I should look into leasing gear you can trade up for when new models comes out. There has to be some company out there that does that, and is affordable I would imagine.

I just hate to see students get in over there heads buying top of the line stuff when the sata ports/intel chips/external ports/ etc change so quick that all of a sudden your 5k machine is a scsi doorstop.

Software on the other hand is completely affordable at student prices. I love the Avid 4 years of upgrades student deal and the CS5.5 pricing. Those are great assets to take advantage of, but seeing how much gear the school has is probably a good bet before buying too much... Seeing if the labs are constantly booked or if you can use them freely enough to not need gear quite yet. If you buy something as a freshmen its probably going to be long in the tooth by graduation and becoming less and less compatible.

For instance I was a PC user and went to a state school that only uses FCP7, so needless to say I needed to learn a new OS and a new NLE at the same time. Plus there is a lot of shuffling around in the NLE school departments as they switch to "professional" 64 bit NLE's and the whole fcp marketing disaster. That and a lot of schools tend to not upgrade consistently on their software so that is why I am really suggesting he find out more about school compatibility issues before hes over his head. Little things like having the same suite but a newer or older version can kill the workflow, so before buying anything its worth doing extensive research is the thesis of my jaded experiences.

I have seen too many students get burned port wise to not have empathy for when they fail to get the hardware/software/ports workflow right. This cute chick in my course started crying so hard when she realized her GL2 can't hook up to a macbook since there is no firewire port and she couldn't get FCP xpress files into FCP6 without XML EDL stuff she didn't even understand bit rate wise. She ended up dropping out, and I felt terrible for her and the many other students that fail to see the whole picture workflow wise and start buying stuff before understanding truly what their compatibility issues might be. It definitely pays to like figuring out the technology stuff. One of the ESPN football directors who taught at my school couldn't tell a firewire 4 from an 8 or a usb, etc. I had to tell him which externals to get and why, its crazy keeping up with this stuff but I sort of like nerding out to the technology, keeps me consistently busy to say the least. Now if I could only get the income thing situated I might be in good shape...

Your probably right that I will appreciate education more with time, it simply is hard to focus on the big picture when the debt to income ratio is out of whack with this current economy. I just keep chugging along, but its truly disappointing when people want you to shoot on a 2,000 dollar camera and edit on a mac with 3 full suites of professional editing gear and intend to pay you with 2 slices of pizza or deferred or whatever other stupid excuse the producer makes. Like the OP I thought throwing away a few thousand on gear would be a smart move. Its taking me so long to break even on the investment its ridiculous. At this rate I will be lucky to pay off the gear before its all doorstops, specifically if 4k starts to really come in 2012 and HD is the new beta/sd/dead format.

At least with Red the modularity and the upgrades they offer provide some protection from becoming obsolete. With NLE hardware the thing is losing value the second you open the box! People try to buy top of the line and it doesn't even mitigate the problem nearly as much as they tend to think originally. Plus insuring the gear is a definite issue the second you acquire some, and good coverage ain't cheap. With so many costs it helps to take a long cold hard look before your in over your head with metal doorstops surrounding you. Best to let the school foot the bill for the doorstops whenever possible.

On the other hand buying gear with student discounts right before graduation, probably not a bad idea... Software specifically, (assuming its not against the rules to use it commercially)

[Dave Blackham]

If you entering the Media industry, Unix and Linux are important OS, also Mac OSX. You can also run windows on Apple platforms if you really need to but it is not the OS of choice by larger facilities. Don't over stretch your self financially if your just starting out on hardware it will go out of date quickly.

There were a couple of posts about education. For what its worth here are a couple of thoughts. In my book its not that relevant what grades you achieved but it does matter to an employer which Academy or University you attended and who taught you. A degree doesn't necessarily give you employable skills which translate directly in to financial reward if you are lucky enough to get employed, it might further down the line but equally may not. Whats important is to have skills that are useful to your employer that are saleable, that will earn you money.

[M Most]

One of the ESPN football directors who taught at my school couldn't tell a firewire 4 from an 8 or a usb, etc. I had to tell him which externals to get and why, its crazy keeping up with this stuff but I sort of like nerding out to the technology, keeps me consistently busy to say the least. Now if I could only get the income thing situated I might be in good shape...

I hope it didn't escape you that even though you knew more than he did about a specific topic, he's the director and you're the lower paid camera guy. That means that he knows an awful lot of things that you don't, has a lot more experience that's relevant to what he's actually doing, and doesn't really need to know geeky computer stuff in order to do his job well. Try to use that as an indication of the relative value of certain types of experience, knowledge, and education in the scheme of things.


Your probably right that I will appreciate education more with time, it simply is hard to focus on the big picture when the debt to income ratio is out of whack with this current economy. I just keep chugging along, but its truly disappointing when people want you to shoot on a 2,000 dollar camera and edit on a mac with 3 full suites of professional editing gear and intend to pay you with 2 slices of pizza or deferred or whatever other stupid excuse the producer makes.

Then stop doing it. One of the things about pay is that once you establish that you'll work for next to nothing, that's what people will offer. I know it's easy for me to say that you should turn some jobs down, but I think you might want to think about that. Think about ways to upgrade your situation if you feel that whatever experience, skill, and dare I say artistry you bring to the table is worth more, and let people know that you're better than what they're currently offering if indeed you believe that you are.

[M Most]

If you entering the Media industry, Unix and Linux are important OS, also Mac OSX. You can also run windows on Apple platforms if you really need to but it is not the OS of choice by larger facilities. .

That's true, but I would point out that the Mac OS **IS** Unix. A variant of BSD Unix, to be exact. If you ignore the GUI and go right to the Terminal, you'll find a full Bash shell, all the standard Unix utilities, all of the standard Unix command line arguments and commands, all of the text processing utilities (awk, sed, grep, they're all in there), full scripting support, a full installed implementation of Python, all of the standard development tools (assuming you've installed them), full support for symbolic links - in short, everything you'd find in any Unix or Linux distribution. In fact, only some small changes in syntax separate it from most current Linux distros. This is, in fact, one of the main reasons larger facilities have gravitated towards Macs and not Windows boxes, especially in more recent years. In our facility, we tend to use things like rsync rather than Finder copies without even thinking about it. And we tend to use find and grep to locate files that are not on local drives all the time. Not to mention that the ability to run scripts developed under Linux with little to no modification is a very useful thing.

[Brian Merlen]

Ah shucks camera guy, don't flatter me...I am not unionized, they won't let me near one in the broadcast world as an intern, at any of the big name firms. Only cameras I touch are my freelancing ones. In fact these days many broadcast companies are starting to use remote control cameras so you can have one op move all three cameras for a news show, they cut out some costs by doing that when possible.

I do turn down more jobs then I take freelance wise, because I literally would lose money in taking the jobs half the time. Go check out CL for film jobs next time you want a good laugh, half of them don't even pay in that they consider reel material/credit, and/or transpo costs, and/or food as a legitimate day rate for you and your gear. Occasionally I see them looking for red one owner operators to work on deferred pay. Those jobs crack me up the most... Makes me wonder just what I got myself into:scared:

But I am really not trying to hijack this thread any more then we already have, I am just saying return on investment is the name of the game in all businesses and what we do, no matter how artistic/creative, is a business just like any other service provider. Buying high end stuff is not something to do on a whim and I think students should try to recognize that since they are on the bottom of the food chain freelance wise and will realistically have a very difficult time breaking even on the investment. The problem is exacerbated further when you want an over kill high end beast of an NLE. His setup sounds sweet, but pricey if you add up the parts, even if you bought third party at OWC he is still talking a pretty penny in equipment

[M Most]

...I am just saying return on investment is the name of the game in all businesses and what we do, no matter how artistic/creative, is a business just like any other service provider. Buying high end stuff is not something to do on a whim and I think students should try to recognize that since they are on the bottom of the food chain freelance wise and will realistically have a very difficult time breaking even on the investment. The problem is exacerbated further when you want an over kill high end beast of an NLE. ..

Got to agree with you on all of that.

[Dave Blackham]

That's true, but I would point out that the Mac OS **IS** Unix. A variant of BSD Unix, to be exact. If you ignore the GUI and go right to the Terminal, you'll find a full Bash shell, all the standard Unix utilities, all of the standard Unix command line arguments and commands, all of the text processing utilities (awk, sed, grep, they're all in there), full scripting support, a full installed implementation of Python, all of the standard development tools (assuming you've installed them), full support for symbolic links - in short, everything you'd find in any Unix or Linux distribution. In fact, only some small changes in syntax separate it from most current Linux distros. This is, in fact, one of the main reasons larger facilities have gravitated towards Macs and not Windows boxes, especially in more recent years. In our facility, we tend to use things like rsync rather than Finder copies without even thinking about it. And we tend to use find and grep to locate files that are not on local drives all the time. Not to mention that the ability to run scripts developed under Linux with little to no modification is a very useful thing.

Agreed. My own preference is to use an Apple box as we can then run virtualy every thing we need. It make more enonomic too sense in my view.

[Ava Grace]

Agree also.

[Elan Gunos]

Been a big long time supporter of Macs, but I get the impression they're not focusing too much on the pro stuff, and with the untimely passing away of big guy Steve, I'm a little unsure of what's going to happen with the future of Apple. JMHO.

[Brian Iannone]

Mac + PP.

If you mean Mac + PC, I agree. Either one by itself can't do everything I (and most other people) need to do. Having both (i.e. a Mac Pro and a Windows workstation) is the only solution, in my opinion.

[Cid J Salcido Uyarra]

You can Build an amazing PC and a Mid-Range iMac (High-End 21'' or Low-End 27'') still spend less than a Mac Pro and have the best of both worlds. That's at least how I roll. Every job is different and the market continues to change being prepared and well versed in both areas is never a bad idea.

[John Bannister]

Hey Chris,

This was always going to be an interesting question. Here is what I know.

I have to go with PC but this is only true since the release of 64 bit support for Adobe After Effects and Sony Vegas Pro. I can not stress to highly the performance increases in AE and Vegas now that they take advantage of the true 64bit multi-core processing of the AMD CPUs.

I use these two packages together and with the release of Vegas 11 Pro and it's native support for red raw files, you can literally drag and drop .r3ds directly into the time line and start cutting. I can now edit at full resolution of the clip where as before I would have used 1/2 or less.

As for AE...wow! I kept my original CS4 version and installed the CS 5.5 as a standalone for comparison, I was pleased I did as I was able to open the same compositions and in each application test the time to render them in cue. The results blew me away. The 64 bit version was four times faster than CS 4. And I was able to composit at much higher render settings. Needless to say, I uninstalled CS 4 and sold it.

So to recap, I love my PC system but only with the following configuration:
Op = Windows Ultimate 7, 64bit Edition
CPU = AMD Quad, Black, 64 bit Architecture
Sony Vegas 11 Pro (native support for red raw)
Adobe AE 5.5

My name is John and I am a PC ;)

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Hah I'd think the one thing most would agree on would be Intel cpus, but apparently not. I'd love to go back to and one day but their product seem to be consistently inferior and not worth the trouble. Their new 12core cpus sound cool, but it seems they are outperformed by Intel's 6core cpus.

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

You can Build an amazing PC and a Mid-Range iMac (High-End 21'' or Low-End 27'') still spend less than a Mac Pro and have the best of both worlds. That's at least how I roll. Every job is different and the market continues to change being prepared and well versed in both areas is never a bad idea.

I'd worry that would be the best of neither worlds since you're stuck deciding if you want more speed or the os/software you prefer for a task. If you need osx and speed, get an expensive mac pro, they will run windows... if you don't need osx, build a PC and get twice the performance for half the cost. On the other hand a mac and a PC might make sense if you'll benefit more from two slower workstations.

[Sven Seynaeve]

wouldn't it be nice, if Smoke got ported to win aswell, could see a lot of potential then.

[Sven Seynaeve]

wouldn't it be nice, if Smoke got ported to win aswell, could see a lot of potential then.