It‘s a great camera, but... some odd quality issues on #112

[Dominic Cochran]

Hi all,

I don't want to second guess RED's material selection choice for the lens mount since I don't know their exact requirements. However, my background is as a mechanical engineer in the aerospace industry so I just wanted to add some thoughts to the discussion.

7075 is definitely a strong material when you also need it to be lightweight. It's one of the strongest aluminum alloys and like mentioned earlier, it's commonly used on aircraft structural members (bulkheads, beams, etc.). I've used a version of it on a high speed impeller for a helicopter transmission oil cooling fan. It's also harder than the more garden variety aluminum alloys like 6061 or 2024, but it's not as hard as heat treated steel or stainless steel. On the Brinell hardness scale, 7075-T6 is around 150 while a heat treated stainless steel, like 17-4PH H1025, is 300+.

Heat treated stainless steel, like 17-4PH H1025, can actually be stronger than 7075-T6. Ultimate tensile strength for 17-4PH H1025 is about 185 ksi while 7075-T6 is 83 ksi. For comparison, standard aluminum alloy like 6061-T6 is around 38 ksi.

Also, stainless steel has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion than aluminum so I think it would be more temperature stable than aluminum?

The main advantage of 7075 aluminum over stainless is its strength to weight ratio since it's about 1/3 the weight.

The 7075 lens mount might actually be fine. Stainless is just nice to have.

Again, I don't know RED's exact design requirements, but just as an observer, I probably would have chosen stainless because the lens mount is a frequently used threaded connection and from my limited experience these types of threads tend to be steel. I've seen aluminum on aluminum threads before, but only on things that are infrequently taken apart (at least for the aerospace industry). Also, with stainless you don't need to do any surface treatment to it that can wear off, other than passivation, which is a cleaning process to prevent corrosion. The tradeoff with stainless steel is more weight and cost, though.

Interesting post, but PL is not a threaded mount.

[Dominic Cochran]

but i still cannot afford Cooke (or other cine lenses) and i feel a bit left alone in the desert.


If you can afford the Red zooms, you can afford a Cooke zoom. Still don't understand the problem here.

[chuck colburn]

Interesting post, but PL is not a threaded mount.
Yes it is. Infact the RED PL mount has two different threaded parts. One the locking ring itself and the other the flange focale depth adjuster.

[Simon Valderrama]

If you can afford the Red zooms, you can afford a Cooke zoom. Still don't understand the problem here.

hello there,

obviously i'm comparing new lenses prices, not used.

Cooke Zooms vary from $60,000 to $ 42,500 approx.
RED Zooms vary from $9,975 to $6,500.00

cheers

[Dominic Cochran]

Yes it is. Infact the RED PL mount has two different threaded parts. One the locking ring itself and the other the flange focale depth adjuster.
yes, it has threaded parts but it's not considered a screw in mount.

[chuck colburn]

yes, it has threaded parts but it's not considered a screw in mount.

True enough. It's not a M42 or whatever type mount but I thought the discussion was about how the RED PL mount was constructed.

[Phil D]

non anglo-saxons .

Time out...

Anglo Saxon? What century are you in Valde? Think you'll find your friends the Romans put an end to the Anglo Saxon's quite a long time ago.

While we're at it, and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Romans gave us the Mile (mille passus) and the Pound Weight lb (libra) both imperial measurements. :innocent:

So remember when you point that metric digit of yours, there are four pointing right back at ya!

...okay, and now back to Red talk

[Simon Valderrama]

Time out...
Anglo Saxon? What century are you in Valde? Think you'll find your friends the Romans put an end to the Anglo Saxon's quite a long time ago.


hehe, sorry, i think i just literally translated an italian phrase in english!

here in italy we use the word Anglo Saxon Countries indicating UK etc...
i wasn't sure about the word when i wrote it (never found it written anywhere), now i guess it's kind of OLD FASHIONED :biggrin:

[J.D. Frey]

I don't have much experience with pro mounts but for what it's worth our lens went on very smoothly last night. There was a bit of noise, but no play, gap, or any other noticeable issues. Only time will tell if any durability issues come up, but we have a big schedule ahead of us, so I'm sure well give it a good work out.

[Phil D]

Hey Valde,

How about Anglo-American as a compromise.

On a serious note, I do feel your pain, but wouldn't it still be cheaper in the long run for you to buy Red's lens and get the metric markings added, than go for the Cookes?

[Adrian T.]

yeah, never assume.
i assumed non-americans and non anglo-saxons could have their RED lenses for professional use and i was SO wrong.

Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh but probably i have to cancel my order but i still cannot afford Cooke (or other cine lenses) and i feel a bit left alone in the desert.
The fact that RED lenses where available are part of my decision of ordering a RED camera in the first place, because everything i needed was within my budget.

Now i would like to know WHY RED decided to not support non-american and non anglo-saxon market, and also would like to know if a serious solution can be reached, (like third parties engravings) or if future "RED PRIMES" and/or "Red Zoom f2.8 CF 18 - 85mm" will have metrics option and/or both markings.

Just seeking answers to my questions.

I'm in exactly the same boat as you are.
Still waiting for satisfactory answers.

I'm also missing a word from Jim on this. The scales problem affects about half of his customer base!

Please, Jim, I know you're listening...

[Simon Valderrama]

On a serious note, I do feel your pain, but wouldn't it still be cheaper in the long run for you to buy Red's lens and get the metric markings added, than go for the Cookes?

you're right, that's why i was also asking about this, if there are third party manufacturers interested in adding metric markings (the stickers thing would work for me but not for my customers).

Another option would be used cine lenses, but having no experience on buying used lenses i find the idea pretty scary. Spending 6000$ on ebay on used lenses that i cannot try hands-on feels scary innit? :cold:

found people in this forum who own used cine lenses, anyone had experiences?

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

This is indeed a serious problem, about the metric system...

As people above said: RED lenses won't have the metric system, bot the lenses of other manufacterers are too expensive... what to do?

People here are RAISED with metres, not with feet...
For me, it's even difficult to just even try to guess a distance in feet, I've never done it...

[Evin Grant]

Valde, given your Res number I'd look seriously into the Birger Nikon AFS or Canon Eos mount.

[Patric Ralston]

From original post by Tim Le ~ "Also, stainless steel has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion than aluminum so I think it would be more temperature stable than aluminum?"

This is a pretty interesting point. Is the Red Body and PL mount made of the same grade materials? Do they have the same thermal expansion rates?
I recall that when the Sony F900 came out there were numerous backfocus problems due to the different expansion rates of the materials used in their mount system. Is this a potential problem or am I way off track and everything is sorted in this area?

[Jannard]

From original post by Tim Le ~ "Also, stainless steel has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion than aluminum so I think it would be more temperature stable than aluminum?"

This is a pretty interesting point. Is the Red Body and PL mount made of the same grade materials? Do they have the same thermal expansion rates?
I recall that when the Sony F900 came out there were numerous backfocus problems due to the different expansion rates of the materials used in their mount system. Is this a potential problem or am I way off track and everything is sorted in this area?

You are off track. But you can keep going if you like. Our mount is nothing like the Sony mount. We have tested thermal expansion and are very satisfied with the results... as I stated before. We would have used stainless if it was necessary. Stainless is just as easy to get as 7075 (maybe easier).

If you want us to consider making an optional (extra cost since it will not be part of our normal production) stainless mount for you, we'll be happy to consider it. We think you will see no difference except weight. Let us know what you want. We are all ears. I'd guess the stainless mount option would cost another $800-$100 or so for making a custom run. That is just a guess. I think it is a mistake, but we aim to please...

Jim

[Evin Grant]

There seems to be very little effect of thermal expansion on collimation of a 35mm mount (Except maybe in extreme conditions). Unlike a 3 chip prism where all interocular distances are multiplied by 3 and the tolerances need to be much more precise.

[Patric Ralston]

Thanks Jim. I was hoping you were all on it. I can rest easy. BTW I have 2 cameras in the 1500's coming my way soon.

[Nick Gardner]

I'm also missing a word from Jim on this. The scales problem affects about half of his customer base!


Just out of curiosity, is that right? I just imagine that with the much larger market in the US the EU should make up like an 8th of the customer base. Unless Bollywood embraces the Red. Have Europeans gone Red crazy and made half the orders?

Just wondering.

Nick

[Patric Ralston]

There seems to be very little effect of thermal expansion on collimation of a 35mm mount (Except maybe in extreme conditions). Unlike a 3 chip prism where all interocular distances are multiplied by 3 and the tolerances need to be much more precise.

Thanks for the reminder Evin. I 've still got to do a mind switch on RED and think of it as a non-film 35mm type camera (but sooo much more!).
I once sent an Aaton 35III to Antarctica for a whole year ~ no FFD probs at all.

[Adrian T.]

Just out of curiosity, is that right? I just imagine that with the much larger market in the US the EU should make up like an 8th of the customer base. Unless Bollywood embraces the Red. Have Europeans gone Red crazy and made half the orders?

Just wondering.

Nick

There's more to the world than the USA and Europe!
Have you seen this? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Metric_system.png

Ok, maybe it's not half the customer base of RED but it's at least 25% I'm sure.

I just want to know WHY is there no metric scales. There's still no answer...

[Jannard]

We'll give you an answer when we have one...

Jim

[Miltos Pilalitos]

I was hopeful that sooner or later an answer would come from RED on the metric issue but since we still know nothing about the thinking or reasons behind this decision i decided to join big lebowski and Valde on their quest for the truth!

I am sure many people were shocked as i was yesterday when we first started to read this thread. The absence of metric markings on the lenses is to my European point of view at least crazy. To be honest, before yesterday i didn't even know that it could happen for professional cine lenses to be imperial marked only.

Almost all the lenses i have used for 16mm and 35mm had both systems on them and in some rare cases had only metric (much older sets).

I am waiting with anticipation for my RED in a couple of months and this crazy revelation will not make me change my decision to buy both RED zooms but i am certain that many non RED-believers who search for the slightest opportunity to fight the camera will soon have a reason to laugh on my face.

The RED team has done so many rights that it's difficult to start a fight on this subject but it is still something that to my mind at least is incomprehensible.

What were you thinking?

Miltos

[Remy Carter]

Is there anyone out there that has developed an infrared laser for calculating distance that could convert back and forth? Maybe attached thru a Follow Focus and based on each lens? Just an idea off the top of my head...

[Rick Darge]

I guess I understand a lot of peoples frustration out there but why so HELL bent on this issue? There are other options out there if you don't like that Red isn't using the metric system. You don't have to buy it. Some people here are acting as if the lack of metric makes the camera a total piece of shit now. Red has their reasons, I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. If Red was out to deceive any of us, Jim would work for Sony and this thing wouldn't even exist.

Shit, we have a 4k digital-35 camera that was built from the fucking ground up against all odds.

I think people tend to forget how fucking bleeding edge this whole thing is- Red is always going to improve and try to make things better but they're never going to change your diapers, no matter how hard you cry.

this thread is dead now

[Jannard]

I will take exception to your claim that all "professional" lenses have metric markings... I am holding my Cooke S4 32mm (new a few months ago) and it does NOT have metric focus marks. Actually, I don't think ANY new Cooke S4 has metric focus marks... and they are made in the UK.

Still have no answer on our future lenses.

Jim

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Doesn´t Cooke produce both? Forgive me if I am wrong but from what I know, when you order Cooke lenses you choose metric or imperial.

Never the less: Jarred came clean early on in this thread and said there will be no metric scales on the current lenses (we can only speculate to why... but it will not help for now - apparently) but at least RED as per an official announcement (several actually) has said what they have to say, so I will live with that!

I would love to have my lenses in metric (my clients will demand it), so my solution will be to make stickers in photoshop, and have them printed in some very robust foil material and stick them above the imperial (this way I can ensure the correctness of every single markings myself) - that will do for me and my costumers.

I would have loved it if RED gave us an option, but to me it´s not the end of the world, the lenses still seem like a bargain to me!

[Jannard]

It appears from the Arri website that Master Primes don't have metric focus marks... is that right? I see, I guess you order them one way or the other...

Jim

[Miltos Pilalitos]

I will take exception to your claim that all "professional" lenses have metric markings... I am holding my Cooke S4 32mm (new a few months ago) and it does NOT have metric focus marks. Actually, I don't think ANY new Cooke S4 has metric focus marks... and they are made in the UK.
Jim

Like i said clearly this was just my limited knowledge of the situation that was enriched yesterday with this thread. I didn't make a statement that all professional cine lenses must have metric markings. Most of my experience so far was with Zeiss glass and anyway I still consider the RED lenses professional if that makes my point of view any clearer.

I will still buy both zooms but you have to agree that for us simple customers without any inside knowledge of how things are made at RED, this decision can melt the mind when you are searching for its logic.

It's never late to learn how to think in feet i guess... or educate our camera assistants to use RED's magic focus assist.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

The master primes comes with both, it´s made to order. (apparently one can also switch from what I have read)

http://www.arri.com/infodown/cam/broch/mp_e.pdf

EDIT: In the metric world (or at least in Europe, ok Norway...) the focus pullers live and die by the metric scale, most do anyway, we have at least one very good american focus puller working here (in Norway)- he probably won´t mind imperial... (and a handful of others will swallow their pride and prentend to, but metric is the norm)

[Nils J. Nesse]

Technical Specifications - Cooke S4 Prime Lenses (http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/dcb2d81e7e2672ed85256e710062d65e/77c211f28c63f2fd85256e8500295723?OpenDocument):

Focus Scales - Two opposing focus scales - metric or footage. Scales marked from infinity to MOD

[Brent J. Craig]

It appears from the Arri website that Master Primes don't have metric focus marks... is that right?

I don't think Cooke and Arri make a big deal about how the lenses are marked because people will obviously need metric or imperial and order the ones they need. It is such a no-brainer they don't even need to advertise it. They'd probably mark 'em up in cubits and hands if you ordered enough of them!

Do you ever see ads for electronics saying "Also available in 220V"?!? or car websites saying "The Ford Mustang - NOW with kilometres!"

In a world market, manufacturers supply what their customers require or those customers go elsewhere.


(But please don't stop making lenses marked in feet and inches.)

[Blue]

Feet, inches, and dinosaurs...

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Come on Jim.:)

All professional lenses offer the option to choose metric or imperial.
Some, like the master primes, offer a reversible focus ring allowing to switch from one to the other in a single easy operation.

There is simply no way around this issue for a professional lens maker.

Love you all the same.
Emmanuel

[Florian Stadler]

It appears from the Arri website that Master Primes don't have metric focus marks... is that right? I see, I guess you order them one way or the other...

Jim

It appears like the focus scale is reversible - one side metric the other imperial... Check out this picture from the catalogue on their website:

[reality]

All professional lenses offer the option to choose metric or imperial.
Some, like the master primes, offer a reversible focus ring allowing to switch from one to the other in a single easy operation.

The 18-50 zoom that I uses has NO witness marks. I don't understand why a few people are such big whiners about metric markings when they're very
rough marks to begin with. Put stickers on it and mark them yourselves and at least you'll have witness marks. The few times I've seen ACs prep the 18-50 they did this anyway for feet. What's the big deal? If your rental customers are concerned, they should rent Metric lens.

[Emmanuel Cambier]

The 18-50 zoom that I uses has NO witness marks. I don't understand why a few people are such big whiners about metric markings when they're very
rough marks to begin with. Put stickers on it and mark them yourselves and at least you'll have witness marks. The few times I've seen ACs prep the 18-50 they did this anyway for feet. What's the big deal? If your rental customers are concerned, they should rent Metric lens.

There are workarounds, you are right.
But I stand by my statement : All professional lenses offer the option to choose metric or imperial.
Now keep on bringing some good ideas how to work around this, please, but if you quote me in a contradictory manner, make sure you have some facts to bring to the table.

Sincerly

Emmanuel

[Gunleik Groven]

And this is now rectified...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7234

Gunleik

[M.Halsell]

Do we know which thread has had the highest view count? This thread I must say, has had a significant lifespan.

[JustMe]

Question.. Has the blue channel issue been dealt with?

[Sebastian Cramer]

Hey, this is such good news, that those metric scale will be available! I wrote a mail to Kelly and put my cacellations back on order. Big thanks, Jim and to the Red team!
And I must say, this is really encouraging, getting a produktion go in 24 hours... Yes, you're listening, excellent. Love this forum. Looks like is really does speed up things.
But honestly you really made a lot of people very happy with this decision, including myself.

So...

...coming back to the PL-Mount issue... Ok, there is this new lube. When do you think you can send it over? And is this something that can be applied by myself?
Still it hasen't solved if my #112 is the only one with this strange sound and stickiness issue, but I guess a bit of improvment here would be for the better.
Jarred, when do you think you can make it availbe?

Best,
Sebastian

[Jarred Land]

Hey Sebastian.. email brent and he will take care of you.

[Sebastian Cramer]

Hey Sebastian.. email brent and he will take care of you.

Hi Jarred,
thanks for your answer. As this PL issue may concern the 300 Red-owners that are currently out there, wouldn't it be better to discuss it here in this forum? Like how to get it, how it is applied, does the mount have to be diassebled, can it be done by everyone etc?

I do feel some sort of immediate reaction from your side if things are on Reduser, which is really apprechiated. You guys are amazing, truly. No other company has that! This direct feedback from the customers.

But I haven't always encountered this same excellent speed when I was simply emailing... ;-).
To be honest I don't know how many times I talked to Kelly and other people over at Red about this (finally solved) metric scale thing. I couldn't get an answer in months! We have been actually talking about this since ICB 07, on an almost weekly basis. There wasn't even a decision...

And now, one thread... hey, and not only a quick answer, but a production go within 24 hours! Excellent! And many, many thanks again.

Ahh..come on... I guess you know what I mean...

Is it ok if we leave this discussion in the forum here?

[Martin Ludwig]

It appears like the focus scale is reversible - one side metric the other imperial... Check out this picture from the catalogue on their website:
with Zeiss or Arri you have all the choice - you can also have your company logo engraved in the ring !

[Deanan]

Is it ok if we leave this discussion in the forum here?

REDuser is not the same as the RED support team.
You really do need to talk to Brent and the support guys
about how best to resolve the mount issue. You will be
better served by talking directly to them.

[Sebastian Cramer]

with Zeiss or Arri you have all the choice - you can also have your company logo engraved in the ring !

Hey Martin,
this is over, they are providing metric scales. Have a look:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7234

Best,
Sebastian

[Patric Ralston]

Is there anyone out there that has developed an infrared laser for calculating distance that could convert back and forth? Maybe attached thru a Follow Focus and based on each lens? Just an idea off the top of my head...

check out www.Cmotion.eu (also based in LA) Cmotion make a lens control system that amoungst other things makes ANY lens an lds lens by storing the lens scale data digitally and displaying it on a screen. The lens is recognised as soon as you calibrate the system and the lens information is displayed on the cdisplayII right on your handset! You can then change the scale representation between metric and imperial. They also make an infared rangefinder that can be integrated into the system~ with an autofocus function if you need it (think filming cars moving at high speed or filming from a low loader where the distances from the subject keep changing)

[Sebastian Cramer]

REDuser is not the same as the RED support team.
You really do need to talk to Brent and the support guys
about how best to resolve the mount issue. You will be
better served by talking directly to them.

Deanan.
What a pitty.. I did like this slight feeling of accelerating issues here :-)
But ok, I will mail to Brent and get things worked out directly. As nobody has responded sofar to having a similar issue, it pretty much looks like a sole incident.

Sebastian

[Sebastian Cramer]

Yes they have! check out www.Cmotion.eu (also based in LA) Cmotion make a lens control system that amoungst other things makes ANY lens an lds lens by storing the lens scale data digitally and displaying it on a screen. The lens is recognised as soon as you calibrate the system and the lens information is displayed on the cdisplayII right on your handset! You can then change the scale representation between metric and imperial.

The only issue with this is the price of this system...

[Deanan]

Deanan.
What a pitty.. I did like this slight feeling of accelerating issues here :-)
But ok, I will mail to Brent and get things worked out directly. As nobody has responded sofar to having a similar issue, it pretty much looks like a sole incident.

Sebastian

Thanks. The lens markings are a distinct design/business topic. Product support and service issues need to go straight to the support team first so you get a better response time and less chance of being lost in the avalanche of reduser posts.

[Patric Ralston]

The only issue with this is the price of this system...

but less expensive than the ARRI lens control system...
Not so long ago people were happy to pay Euro 126.000,00 for an ARRICAM LT body (and still are):biggrin: ....funny how perceptions change

[Sebastian Cramer]

Thanks. The lens markings are a distinct design/business topic. Product support and service issues need to go straight to the support team first so you get a better response time and less chance of being lost in the avalanche of reduser posts.

Deanan, not to worry, I sent a mail to Brent with a clip of how the mount sounds and behaves. Everything will be good.

I understand you are separating those two issues design/business and product support. Very good, this makes sense to me...

So I'd like to bring up something related to design here...
Forgive me for beeing a bit insisting here but you might understand my situation after reading this:

On NAB 07 nobody was allowed to touch a camera, but on IBC in September I wanted to check out how the Red sits on the shoulder and when I put it up, it immediatelly accured the side handles had not enough grip.
I mentioned this to Brian and whoever was around there and was told: "Oh yes, we know this, don't worry we just had to put this together quickly for the show. Trust us, it will be VERY different when the cameras get shipped."
There were even various ideas in this little group at your booth floating around of how a stronger grip can be achieved.

Sounded good. I was happy.

5 Month later I receive my camera and it was not VERY different, it was not different at all, it was EXACTLY like it was on IBC. And again, no, it is not usuable like this!

Am I harsh? Maybe... Do I have a reason for this... I think everyone can find his own answer here.

Again: I love your camera! It's great what you did. The whole concept is exactly what I was dreaming of. But please give me the feeling of something is happening, even if I don't make it public!

Thanks,
Sebastian

[Zk2007]

Double post.

[Zk2007]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/582_1199320582.jpg

Listen to "the jesus".

Hehehe I wonder how many times one can accidentally get his hands in the shoot using this method.
Besides I like having the RUN button on my finger tips as well.
Form all handle grips out there I think Aaton has the best. Doesn't add to the weight, has the RUN button and is very anatomical.

[Rocco Schult]

...is there interest in and/or any effort being made by Red to potentially implement the ARRI LDS system in the future?

If not, do you know of any possible update/workaround/mod that would allow the Red camera to read the ARRI LDS system data as it exists today? ..

Take a look at THIS (http://www.cmotion.eu/)
I believe they could store the lens data along with a TC...
At least they seem to build the i-Data box for Cooke...

Take a look HERE (http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/press/datalink2007) and
Take another look HERE (http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995edb4e7585256b4d001ebd57/e0a0ef9c0ceb8188852572cf006cefcc?OpenDocument).

I do not know about LDS support and couldn't find either positive or negative info on that, but CMotion is very responsive and eager to help.

[reality]

Am I harsh? Maybe... Do I have a reason for this... I think everyone can find his own answer here.

Again: I love your camera! It's great what you did. The whole concept is exactly what I was dreaming of. But please give me the feeling of something is happening, even if I don't make it public!

Thanks,
Sebastian

Wow Sebastian, you really are starting to sound like a real asshole lately.

[Brent@RED]

Do not think of it as a "RED user thread" got faster results than "an email". All emails on product suggestions do reach the right ears. Emails and posts have a cumulative effect. As RED consistently shows, we listen.

And, yes, as far as technical support/customer service, use our webforms at http://www.red.com/contact_us or call us at 949.206.7900. Our Bomb Squad is standing by :)

Thanks, BC





But I haven't always encountered this same excellent speed when I was simply emailing... ;-).
To be honest I don't know how many times I talked to Kelly and other people over at Red about this (finally solved) metric scale thing. I couldn't get an answer in months! We have been actually talking about this since ICB 07, on an almost weekly basis. There wasn't even a decision...

And now, one thread... hey, and not only a quick answer, but a production go within 24 hours! Excellent! And many, many thanks again.

[Clayton Harper]

call us at 949.206.9900. Our Bomb Squad is standing by :)

Thanks, BC

Phone number is 949.206.7900 not 949.206.9900. :huh:

[Charles Adams]

Sebastian, can you post the video of the mount so we can see/hear the problem?

[Brent@RED]

Darn 10-key skills are rusty...


Phone number is 949.206.7900 not 949.206.9900. :huh:

[Sebastian Cramer]

Sebastian, can you post the video of the mount so we can see/hear the problem?

Sorry Charles,
I sent it over to Red and I'd like to give them a chance to react and solve this issue.

In addition to this I have to say I probably got carried away by frustration on the tone of my last mails.
I just had put this clip together, shortend the srews on the cradle and was thinking where to drill a hole into the side handles for a permanent fix, when I really got angry and posted in a cynical tone which normally is not my stile.

Sorry for this.

Sebastian

[Charles Adams]

No problem, Sebatian, was only wondering so other, future Red owners could compare when they get their cameras and have a chance to check the mount. Someone I know also says their mount makes a noise but it doesn't necessarily stick. Was just curious what yours sounded/looked like in order to better say whether there is a problem or not. But thanks for starting this thread, and thanks to the Red team for listening!

[Blue]

Wow Sebastian, you really are starting to sound like a real asshole lately.

Ha ha! Sucked in you twat. Sebastian didn't bite.

[David Wyatt]

The 18-50 zoom that I uses has NO witness marks. I don't understand why a few people are such big whiners about metric markings when they're very
rough marks to begin with. Put stickers on it and mark them yourselves and at least you'll have witness marks. The few times I've seen ACs prep the 18-50 they did this anyway for feet. What's the big deal? If your rental customers are concerned, they should rent Metric lens.

I don't get this whole fuss about metric vs imperial - if the focus barrel has no witness mark for each distance (like those Canon Super 16mm zooms?) then just about every focus puller I know would mark the barrel up with some tape/letraset and mark off the distances with proper witness marks by eye/off a monitor. So if you've GOT to do that (for accuracy's sake!!) then what difference does it make if it's not in metric...you've still got to mark it up with tape/letraset (you can just do it in metric instead!!!) In fact I was once told that Cooke hand-engrave their distance-witness marks onto each individual lens barrel by sharping it up by eye at each distance!!

David Wyatt.

[Nova Invicta]

The mounts on the Arri & PV cameras use a very hard grade of stainless steel it is nonsence to say even aircraft grade aluminium will not tear if you have aluminium on aluminium or aluminium on stainless steel if you get grit in the mount. ALL mounts must be inspected regularly for wear and usually its not the mating surfaces but the threads due to pressure that wears them and then require the mount to be adjusted or replace, this on modern Arri & PV cameras almost never happens. Anodizing is a very dry finish and the threads should be lubricated but NEVER the faces the lens mounts to or locks to. Video cameras from Sony and Panasonic and their B4 mounts are sometimes very flimsy with the F900R / HDW-750P / HDW-790P cameras having very thin castings behind the mount (2mm in places).
The price difference between high grade aluminium and high grade stailess steel is not that great considering the amount being used so it should be a no brainer to use stainless.