Still Workflow Video

[Jarred Land]

http://www.red.com/learn/workflows/rcx-x-pro-motion-to-stills-workflow

[Michael Millichamp]

I watched this the other day.

Interesting.

[Josh Beadle]

AWESOME! Please do many, many more of these tuts!!

Please sloooow down and explain Why you are doing What you are doing with maybe an explanation of other options / buttons you are not using and Why. This 4 minute tut could be 20 minutes and I would still be riveted.

Thanks for the efforts!

[Luc Bouvrette]

Very useful, thanks! To my taste, Dan could have slowed down the pace by a few bpms, but otherwise it's appreciated. :)

[Steve Johnson]

Cool.

Watched this the other day when the front page changed. Cool little video.

Hopefully many more to come looking at the different products and workflows.

:))

[Patrick Grossien]

Definitely already watched this one. It's a great thing to have and just screams for more of these. :)
I would also love to see more of the rail component demos ;) There's so much flexibility, that it would be nice to see some possibilities :)

[David Battistella]

Nice.

Watched it today.


Is that Dan Baum doing those?

[Ryan Fitzgerald]

Sweet. Thanks!

[Bob Gundu]

Getting some great millage out of that photo shoot :)

[Harrison Diamond]

Great to have this tutorial, Thanks Jarred and Dan!
I've primarily been a stills shooter for the last 6 years, and hope to use my Scarlet to replace my DSLRs for a lot of work. This workflow makes things pretty darn easy!

[Jarred Land]

Nice.

Watched it today.


Is that Dan Baum doing those?

Dan Duran :)

Glad you guys like it. I actually like the pace.. you can always press pause if you can't keep up and rewind etc. I just really hate slow moving videos.. i would rather be a bit too fast than too slow.

Working on more...

[Barry Bishop]

Dan Duran :)

Glad you guys like it. I actually like the pace.. you can always press pause if you can't keep up and rewind etc. I just really hate slow moving videos.. i would rather be a bit too fast than too slow.

Working on more...

Pacing is fine, I just would like more depth and maybe best practices. Thanks Jarred.

[Sergio Perez]

Very good stuff. Absolutely Essential viewing, thanks for sharing! Looking forward to the upcoming ones!

[Per von Koch]

Dan Duran :)

Glad you guys like it. I actually like the pace.. you can always press pause if you can't keep up and rewind etc. I just really hate slow moving videos.. i would rather be a bit too fast than too slow.

Working on more...

I would like one using alchemy. Or at least where it's included :)
Great video btw!

[Tony Lorentzen]

Working on more...

Excellent. Videos like this really help those of us trying to convince people the simplicity of shooting RED ;-) Keep it up!

[KETCH ROSSi]

Nice one, but mine with the girls will be better... he he.

Okay, kidding a bit, I wish this type of videos had showed up a long time ago... ;)

There is a real need out there, I get literally inundated by mails asking how I do the Motion to Still
workflow, form acquisition, lighting to post and print.

I hope that the video we have in the works, will be worthy of this great section.

[Josh Beadle]

. . . I actually like the pace . . .

. . . you're just a wee bit closer to the subject matter and smarter than most . . . better looking too!!

[Isaac Babcock]

Thanks for this - I can't tell you how useful this is for me. I'd love to see more such video tutorials on working with Redcine. I found the pace fine - it was amusing because Dan obviously knew his way through things inside out, and I hit pause every second or two - but I can't thank you enough for this.

It's my own fault, but my greatest shortcoming in the red world has been my inability to keep up with and figure out Redcine - tutorials like this make it clear simple and easy. I look forward to seeing more -

PS- is there a way to save this on my computer so I don't have to be online to view it? Apologies if that is a no-brainer, I'm just strutting my usual stuff with antiquated computer knowledge..

[Sanjin Jukic]

Nice!!!

[Costelloe Michael]

Cool, keep these coming guys.

[Mennovandijk]

Aha! there is the "send to Photoshop" option, couldn't find a button for that..

[WesG]

Dan Duran :)

Glad you guys like it. I actually like the pace.. you can always press pause if you can't keep up and rewind etc. I just really hate slow moving videos.. i would rather be a bit too fast than too slow.

Working on more...

Thanks Jarred, pace is fine as the workflow is so intuitive and basic - nothing complicated.

Would love to see more discussion/info around best practice for sharpening, grading etc - what steps you see should be completed in RedcineX vs Photoshop in terms of grading, sharpening etc etc
Sharpening is a key questions.

But also in regards to stills and motion I'd love to see more tutorials on adjusting images in RedCineX and what provides for best first light development. Getting the most out of the raw image before the image is creatively graded in a third party application.
This process seems to be very subjective but I imagine Red has a wealth of experience to share.

[Jay A. Kelley]

So you guys want tutorial videos on the EPIC and SCARLET huh?
Hmmmmmmmm
:ihih:

[Antony M]

When I right-click on a snapshot, all I see is "Show in Folder".
I don't get the Open in PS option.

http://casafilms.co.uk/pics/RCX10.jpg

[Antony M]

When I right-click on a snapshot, all I see is "Show in Folder".
I don't get the Open in PS option.

http://casafilms.co.uk/pics/RCX10.jpg


Any idea why not?

Anyone?

[Antony M]

When I right-click on a snapshot, all I see is "Show in Folder".
I don't get the Open in PS option.

http://casafilms.co.uk/pics/RCX10.jpg

What a deafening silence.

Does no one know?

[Harrison Diamond]

What version of RCX-Pro? Which version of Photoshop? It's working fine for me here. Running RCX Pro b10, CS 5.5

[Roy Rossovich]

Can't wait to fire the Scarlet on my next fashion shoot. will be fun to compare to the D3x

[paul ross jones]

I am very interested in the possibility of shooting with an epic for stills and motion.

There is some workflow issues i can see, compared with a canon/phase digital back work flow with capture one software.
Clients now days on every shoot expect to be able to see the shots come in, and do selects of the shots as they happen. I understand that they will be able to see the continuous footage come through a hdmi screen, but what if they see something they like- is there a way to mark that? can they stop the frame and have a look without stopping the shoot?

we are use to the workflow of a tethered to computer that then sends the pics to an iPad for the client to review, they can pause and select images from the iPad. TVCs i work on have a similar system- a video village where the filming can continue while the client can review independently- I'm not sure they do this, but this may be a solution. I assume they must be capturing the hdmi/hdsdi into another capture program.

Other issues is getting the retouchers I use to learn red software, as all of my post including processing the used shot gets done by the retoucher .


paul

[Arturo Sánchez]

Can't wait to fire the Scarlet on my next fashion shoot. will be fun to compare to the D3x
I think that you will not be able to do thia with your Scarlet because if you shoot at 4k 24p you will have to set 48 as shutter speed: blurry images
i think that the only way to get stilla from motion is using the Epic

[Bob Gundu]

I think that you will not be able to do thia with your Scarlet because if you shoot at 4k 24p you will have to set 48 as shutter speed: blurry images
i think that the only way to get stilla from motion is using the Epic

Why? Epic and scarlet have identical shutter speeds. Framerates won't give less motion blur.

[Arturo Sánchez]

Why? Epic and scarlet have identical shutter speeds. Framerates won't give less motion blur.
Epic : 4k 120fps=240 shutter speed=no motion blur
Scarlet: 4k 30fps=60 shutter speed=motion blur

[Antony M]

What version of RCX-Pro? Which version of Photoshop? It's working fine for me here. Running RCX Pro b10, CS 5.5

I'm using the same versions as you.

On Windows 7.

[Les Dittert]

Arturo, you can set shutter speed independently of frame rate.
-Les

Epic : 4k 120fps=240 shutter speed=no motion blur
Scarlet: 4k 30fps=60 shutter speed=motion blur

[Arturo Sánchez]

Arturo, you can set shutter speed independently of frame rate.
-Les
Yes i know it but if you want to have useful footage you would have to set the shuter speed number like the frame rate or like the double if you don't want to create strobo effect.
Example: If you shoot at 30fps and 120 shutter speed you would be able to catch stills from motion without motion blur yes,but the footage would not be usefull(strobo effect)

[TonySegreto]

Cool I was just wondering what the still workflow is like for people doing stills on EPIC/Scarlet. Great new additions to RCX!

[Iain Philpott]

Yes i know it but if you want to have useful footage you would have to set the shuter speed number like the frame rate or like the double if you don't want to create strobo effect.
Example: If you shoot at 30fps and 120 shutter speed you would be able to catch stills from motion without motion blur yes,but the footage would not be usefull(strobo effect)

So true. Scarlet cannot do for stills what Epic crucially can. Having done lots of research - even nearly bought a Scarlet and now having just shot with Epic on a trip in Cape Town, shooting to get the optimal still from motion, only Epic is going to give it to you. 96fps, 180deg+ shutter @5k is what works, no 'if's' and 'but's' about it. I shot Canon 1DS Mk2 right along side Epic and in my opinion the Epic 16Bit Tiff 76mb file was slightly better (PL glass?). I was blown away by it. Even when I crop the 'still' landscape frame down to become a portrait to fit a magazine I'm still left in awe! You can talk about resolution till the cow's come home (English expression!) but all i know is this camera delivers still frames that I'm spellbound by..... I now just need to find the best way to take the 96fps motion down to 24fps - any advice?

However, to complete the package for me........ RED are you listening! Two things on my wish list to make the camera just perfect - single frame and flash sync.....please, please, please!

[Arturo Sánchez]

. I now just need to find the best way to take the 96fps motion down to 24fps - any advice?

However, to complete the package for me........ RED are you listening! Two things on my wish list to make the camera just perfect - single frame and flash sync.....please, please, please!
+1I would like to lnow how to convert 96fps into 24 also

[Mark Pugh]

However, to complete the package for me........ RED are you listening! Two things on my wish list to make the camera just perfect - single frame and flash sync.....please, please, please!

Hasn't Jim mentioned a while ago that a regular flash won't work with Red's cameras, because of the rolling shutter? That a 'long duration' flash must be used?
I'm guessing that means something like Paparazzi lights, maybe DMX boards to run them...
I don't think talent would enjoy a longer duration flash, though.

[David Ibbitson]

Currently a Mac only feature. I want to get it working on Windows soon.

David


I'm using the same versions as you.

On Windows 7.

[Jack Shanahan]

So true. Scarlet cannot do for stills what Epic crucially can. Having done lots of research - even nearly bought a Scarlet and now having just shot with Epic on a trip in Cape Town, shooting to get the optimal still from motion, only Epic is going to give it to you. 96fps, 180deg+ shutter @5k is what works, no 'if's' and 'but's' about it. I shot Canon 1DS Mk2 right along side Epic and in my opinion the Epic 16Bit Tiff 76mb file was slightly better (PL glass?). I was blown away by it. Even when I crop the 'still' landscape frame down to become a portrait to fit a magazine I'm still left in awe! You can talk about resolution till the cow's come home (English expression!) but all i know is this camera delivers still frames that I'm spellbound by..... I now just need to find the best way to take the 96fps motion down to 24fps - any advice?

However, to complete the package for me........ RED are you listening! Two things on my wish list to make the camera just perfect - single frame and flash sync.....please, please, please!

Anyone test their Scarlet shooting stills + motion yet? Preferably with something close to camera that is actually moving i.e. creating motion blur....

EDIT: Iain if you don mind posting your tests that would be great. Or at least tell us more specs about what you were shooting. A giraffe from a landrover? a model in a studio? thanks ;)

[Timur Civan]

Yes i know it but if you want to have useful footage you would have to set the shuter speed number like the frame rate or like the double if you don't want to create strobo effect.
Example: If you shoot at 30fps and 120 shutter speed you would be able to catch stills from motion without motion blur yes,but the footage would not be usefull(strobo effect)

This makes no sense either. So the only motion you can capture is 120FPS slomotion? What happens if you need 24p? Speed it up and get stroby motion again. There is no free lunch. If you're shooting for stills, shoot for stills. If you're shootig motion shoot motion

[Josh Knepper]

Right click on the NAME not on the PRESET. I'm sure you have figured this out by now. But just in case. :)

[Lee Saxon]

....there's still gonna be a dedicated stills mode which ACR is going to support, right?

'Cause, uh...no.

[Kyle Mallory]

I'm jumping in this thread kind of late... Hopefully, not too late though.

Is there any updates on the Stills mode for Epic? I would really like to start using this mode. I like the idea of shooting motion for stills, but its not ideal for every situation... great for fashion and/or action photography, not so much for landscape, architecture, etc.

While I'm here, I'll go so far as suggest what I'd REALLY like to see from a stills mode:

When in stills mode, fully depressing and holding the shutter button for 2 seconds, the camera starts recording a configurable 1-30 second pre-record using motion settings (1/48th, ISO800, etc). At each shutter release, the camera shoots a second (HDRx?) frame using the "stills" settings, (1/250th, ISO640, etc), and triggers a strobe sync. Each press, the camera continues to record an additional another 1-30 seconds (same duration as the pre-record). If another press occurs in that time frame, the clip is extended + the new still is shot, and the internal timer resets to recording another 1-30 seconds trailing the last shot. Pressing and holding the shutter button for 2 seconds, stops the recording. If not pre-recording, a press of the shutter simply shoots the stills frame, fires the strobe, etc, and advances the clip.

The idea is this: Say you've got a pre-record configure for 2 seconds. The first shutter release will record a 4-second clip (2 seconds before, 2-seconds after). You wait 30 seconds before the next shot (giving the model some direction), so the first clip ends, a second starts and begins pre-recording 2 seconds, this time, you shoot 5 shots in 1 second intervals. You will get a single clip that is 9 seconds long, 2 seconds pre-record, 5 shots at one second intervals, and 2-seconds of post-record. The clips will contain the video shot for motion at 1/48th (or whatever), with "marks" and "b-track images" for the stills. Opening the clips in RedCine-X will show the entire clip on the timeline, and show markers for each of the stills. Ideally, when scrubbing the timeline, when you hit a frame that was shot as a still, it will show you the "stills" frame over the motion one, since if using a strobe, etc the motion frames will likely be over-exposed, or have motion blur artifacts which are probably undesireable. Of course, you should have an option to export either...

[Yannick Verry]

Can we have a further look at scarlet possibilities for stills at the moment ? (will not use the footage for video)
- 4K / 30fps / 120 shutter speed OK
- 4K / 24fps / shutter ???
- 5K / 12fps..... ???
- 5K / 6fps / HDRx ???

[Jeremiah Kuehne]

I may be naive, but wouldn't the strobo effect really only matter for motion-purpose video? If your purpose is to extract stills from motion, the high quality frames would still be there, would they not?

[Keith Hamlin]

Very helpful video thanks.

[Brett Clements]

So true. Scarlet cannot do for stills what Epic crucially can. Having done lots of research - even nearly bought a Scarlet and now having just shot with Epic on a trip in Cape Town, shooting to get the optimal still from motion, only Epic is going to give it to you. 96fps, 180deg+ shutter @5k is what works, no 'if's' and 'but's' about it. I shot Canon 1DS Mk2 right along side Epic and in my opinion the Epic 16Bit Tiff 76mb file was slightly better (PL glass?). I was blown away by it. Even when I crop the 'still' landscape frame down to become a portrait to fit a magazine I'm still left in awe! You can talk about resolution till the cow's come home (English expression!) but all i know is this camera delivers still frames that I'm spellbound by..... I now just need to find the best way to take the 96fps motion down to 24fps - any advice?

However, to complete the package for me........ RED are you listening! Two things on my wish list to make the camera just perfect - single frame and flash sync.....please, please, please!

Problem. Surely, the objective, or one of the objectives, of nailing a great, sharp still photograph is to get the Red Code down real low. On these settings, the best you'll be able to get is 12-1?

[z luye]

If you are shooting specifically for stills, the ridiculous looking strobo effect that would normally haunt your video will not matter, as long as you are only extracting stills from it. Keep in mind if you're letting a client view that footage live, they're going to be drastically confused by the Saving Private Ryan look.

[Will Keir]

We talkign 45 degree shutter here? That look is fantastic. Now did Saving Private Ryan use this shutter speed through out the entirety of the film? Some of those scenes look pretty standard shutter speed. I'd love to shoot a whole feature with 45 degrees it but low light situations I have to go back to 180 degrees.

[Will Keir]

Strobo effect? Are shutter angle are you referring to precisely. 360 degree like Apocolipto?


Yes i know it but if you want to have useful footage you would have to set the shuter speed number like the frame rate or like the double if you don't want to create strobo effect.
Example: If you shoot at 30fps and 120 shutter speed you would be able to catch stills from motion without motion blur yes,but the footage would not be usefull(strobo effect)

[Robert Hofmeyr]

One way to get smooth motion and sharp stills is to use HDRx and pull stills from the X track.

One issue with this method is that you have to choose whether to expose for stills or motion. Perhaps Red can enable an alternative Stills + Motion mode: choose your stills shutter speed (for example 1/200) and your motion shutter speed (say 1/50 at 25fps). Camera shoots enough frames at the stills shutter speed (at 360 degrees) to make up the motion frame. In this example the sensor would record 4 frames at 1/200, take a break for 1/50th of a second then record 4 more frames etc. In post, the 4 "still" frames would be combined as a single "motion" frame. For higher shutter speed stills, you would need to add more frames. If media speed is the limiting factor and Epic is able to do the processing realtime, maybe the one "still" frame can be recorded alongside a merged "motion" frame composed from a set of still frames and the extra frames can then be discarded.

This could also be a way of adding a kind of digital ND filter - split each frame into sections for faster shutter speed, then re-combine them for desired motion blur.

I'm not sure if this would work at all. Perhaps the reset time of the sensor makes combined frames unusable. Perhaps there's something else I'm missing. There was a thread on this kind of idea a while back but I can't find it.

Any thoughts?

[Will Keir]

why not just skip this HDR and shoot at a high shutter in the first place?

[Robert Hofmeyr]

You could, but I think most people want slower shutter speeds for motion and faster for stills.

[Larry W Ross]

First time to post.
I am a photographer located in Austin Texas, my focus is on shooting teens, people with pets and men and women on their motorcycles.
My question is, when you shoot red video you are actually pulling one frame out for your still photo. Do you have motion blur when the subject is moving fast?
The reason I'm asking is, it appears easier just to have a subject run through several poses and then pull out the best photos from the video file.
Has anyone actually done this and what did you think of the image quality?.

Thank you

Larry Ross

[Brad Allen]

Do you have motion blur when the subject is moving fast?

Hi Larry - you would have motion blur if you shot at 1/48shutter. However, you're not limited to shooting at 1/48 shutter in video land. You would just shutter up until motion blur was at an acceptable level (just as you would for stills).

Also keep in mind that if you are shooting at higher frame rates, motion blur is going to become less of a problem. For example, if you were to shoot 5k @ 120fps, even if your shutter was open - that will produce the same motion blur as a shutter speed of 1/120.

Much of the discussion here is focusing on how to use Epic footage for natural looking stills and motion. On the stills side, you usually want to eliminate motion blur by using a high shutter speed, whereas on the motion side of things you want to maintain a slower shutter speed to maintain natural looking motion blur. Being that you are just looking at using the footage for stills though - you shouldn't face this problem :)

[PC Greene]

Is there really no practical way to shoot good looking 4k 24 fps video & still pull sharp stills on Scarllet? Has anyone tried a faster than 48 shutter but applied motion blur in post? Any other methods other than lose resolution with HDR or with a higher frame rate?

Thanks!

[Imran Farouk]

Is there really no practical way to shoot good looking 4k 24 fps video & still pull sharp stills on Scarllet? Has anyone tried a faster than 48 shutter but applied motion blur in post? Any other methods other than lose resolution with HDR or with a higher frame rate?

Thanks!

There was something about this a while back about shooting a higher shutter speed throughout and then just doing whatever in post to bring it back to look like its a 48 shutter - apparently it won't A. Look good and B. its a massive pain which brings back point A in the end

Although I guess if you have the expertise and know how you could technically do anything right? Time and budget willing

I'm curious about this HDRX thing though, since the X track is for stills pulling, would you expose correctly for X or...?

This is assuming you want both video and stills at the same time


Side note: At higher frame rates you can't drop the compression can you? Though with stills I'd guess shooting even 3:1 just to push that tiny (invisible?) quality out wouldn't be a bad idea - at 6:1 on the Scarlet I'm pretty pleased but I can imagine that 3:1 maybe just that tad bit extra better

[Michael Hardwick]

My thought would be to enable HDRX at 2 Stops. Plan to expose the motion track at 1/48th, and plan to expose the X Track at 1/192. Set your meter to 1/96th which places the exposure in the middle of range.

In RCX Pro, you would need to lift your exposure 1 stop for motion, and pull down your exposure 1 stop for stills - easily saved as a look for each, not a huge pain in the ass. Just realize when you are on set you have one stop less latitude for shadows and highlights, and light appropriately. If you can't pull a sharp frame at 1/192 of a second maybe its time for a tripod or monopod.

My $0.02 ... works for me.

Anybody have a better way?

[Lee Kelly]

Ive been playing around with settings for capturing a sharp still frame of action sport. Its been tough. 1/1000th on my stills camera freezes pretty much any sporting moment whereas 1/1000th on the epic video still has a lot of blur. Im shooting 5k 3:1 250iso 25fps. Got to keep noise low, compression low, still get enough light to the sensor while giving myself enough dof to hold a sharp focus shot (on 600mm lens) Tricky!
Im interested in the HDRX idea. Id love more info.
I think with the right lighting on a fashion shoot and shooting a semi fast shutter angle/speed, whatever you can freeze your model enough to pull a sharp frame. Someone hitting a tennis ball or kickflipping a skateboard or similar shot tight its much harder to get that frozen moment.
Id love to hear from other photographers who have shot action sports and how theyre results have worked out?

[Brett Clements]

This feature hasn't been enabled yet.

[Dominik Muench]

here are some results from my first motion to stills test: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?78650-Motion-to-Stills-a-first-test-quot-A-tough-day-at-the-office-quot-%28NSFW%29

most were taken with a shutterspeed between 1/500 and 1/1000 of a sec and I'm quite happy with the results. desperately waiting for a flash sync option though.

[Mike P.]

Is it confirmed that a dedicated "stills mode" is no longer in the works? E.g. we're going to have to pull stills from a video stream as per this suggested workflow?

I realize in theory this should be more than adequate, but in practice, as soon as power management comes into play, it's not nearly as functional. If you're taking stills one frame at a time with moderate power management enabled there's no telling how long a REDvolt will last (as the camera will be in standby most of the time only coming on full blast when you take the picture.) Same thing on the REDmag side; with single frame capture a 64gig will last all day, even at 5k/3:1.

I'm under the impression that kitting the Epic/Scarlet like a Hasselblad -- Brain, SSD, Side Handle, EVF? -- would be sweet if it could last half a day (hell, just 2hours would be great), but that will not happen if you're taking clips to pull stills from, even if they're only 2-3second... Doubly-true if you can't delete single clips off the REDmag.

Can anyone offer any clarity (reasoning) on this? I mean, if it's technologically not feasible that's one thing, but I'm under the impression that the only reason stuff like this isn't being implemented is because RED doesn't see a need for it (and I'm obviously saying it has huge functional advantages.) Plus RED advocates options in post, so it's counterintuitive that they would dictate stills functionality.