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I Bloom
01-03-2008, 08:56 PM
Is there a place for Cineform in a FCP and Redcode proxie world?

David Newman
01-05-2008, 09:11 AM
CineForm is primarily designed for an online workflow, so exports from RedCine to CineForm become your new master files. This is easier on the PC, although we are moving to support 4K mastering on the Mac also. The new version of NEO Mac is now in beta with 4K encoding support.

I Bloom
01-05-2008, 03:19 PM
CineForm is primarily designed for an online workflow, so exports from RedCine to CineForm become your new master files. This is easier on the PC, although we are moving to support 4K mastering on the Mac also. The new version of NEO Mac is now in beta with 4K encoding support.

Oh hey David. Nice AV!

Well I think the main goal for some productions, such as music video, is keeping all of your workflow in one place. A lot of comments I hear about Red from middle tier Apple users is that they want to keep their entire project in FCP, Color, and After Effects. They could transcode to a broadcast HD format, but I think they would loose quality and flexability in their color correction.

Working in 4K isn't as important I think for these projects, they are satisfied with a 2K downconversion but will benefit from keeping their online material as flexible at color correction as Redcode, i.e. keep it 12bit RGB, without baking in much color correction in Redcine so that they can bring in secondaries later.

So is their a niche for Cineform here?

Ian

David Newman
01-05-2008, 04:01 PM
Yes, that is definitely a good application for CineForm 444. The only issue today is Color will not support any third party codecs, something we believe will be fixed soon.

Gian Joon
01-05-2008, 07:40 PM
Hi David, Can you please advise how it will affect FCP workflow.

JustMe
01-05-2008, 08:11 PM
easy,
Dont use FCP

David Newman
01-05-2008, 09:28 PM
Basically you are comparing workflows using ProRES HQ 422, versus CineForm 444 for online workflows in FCP. If you were to stick with FCP and Color, ProRES has the speed advantage as native codec, but it is only 4:2:2. Once you leave the Apple tools cycle, ProRES support gets weak fast. e.g. After Effects and ProRES not mix well for example, as it only uses 8-bit and with the wrong color space. CineForm 444 has a strong advantage if you are using multiple tools or are working with others on PCs. The same file encoded on a Mac works on the PC and visa versa in the full color depth. So if you are doing a one man job video project under FCP, use ProRES, if you are working on a larger multiple artistist project, CineForm has the advantage.

I Bloom
01-06-2008, 07:41 AM
Basically you are comparing workflows using ProRES HQ 422, versus CineForm 444 for online workflows in FCP. If you were to stick with FCP and Color, ProRES has the speed advantage as native codec, but it is only 4:2:2. Once you leave the Apple tools cycle, ProRES support gets weak fast. e.g. After Effects and ProRES not mix well for example, as it only uses 8-bit and with the wrong color space. CineForm 444 has a strong advantage if you are using multiple tools or are working with others on PCs. The same file encoded on a Mac works on the PC and visa versa in the full color depth. So if you are doing a one man job video project under FCP, use ProRES, if you are working on a larger multiple artistist project, CineForm has the advantage.

If the main goal is to maintain color space and BIT DEPTH though then FCP is not a good conduit for footage though right? Even when using cineform.

Ian

David Newman
01-06-2008, 08:13 AM
If you are careful FCP is not as bad as it is rumored. You can online at 2K 444 32-bit float and get nice results. We have only confirmed this with CineForm but I'm guessing ProRES would also support this.

David Newman
01-09-2008, 09:45 AM
Basically is lack of engineering resources that is preventing us bring all these PC tools to Mac today. But we are working on that and so much more.

I Bloom
01-10-2008, 07:49 PM
David,

Are there tools for splitting and concatenating Cineform files?

IBloom

David Newman
01-10-2008, 08:33 PM
Yes, many. CineForm is just a compressed sample within a standard AVI or MOV wrapper, which means any exiting tool for splitting and concatenating AVI/MOV files should work. I'm mainly a PC guy, and I use VirtualDub in "Direct Stream" mode to losslessly and quickly split out short AVI from larger media.

I Bloom
01-10-2008, 08:36 PM
Yes, many. CineForm is just a compressed sample within a standard AVI or MOV wrapper, which means any exiting tool for splitting and concatenating AVI/MOV files should work. I'm mainly a PC guy, and I use VirtualDub in "Direct Stream" mode to losslessly and quickly split out short AVI from larger media.

I see. You don't know of any good ones for Mac, command line for example?

IBloom

David Newman
01-10-2008, 08:45 PM
I don't know of them personal use, but I know they exist. It is a piece of cake to write such a tool.

Here one I just found : http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/video/addmovie.html

I Bloom
01-10-2008, 08:48 PM
I don't know of them personal use, but I know they exist. It is a piece of cake to write such a tool.

Here one I just found : http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/video/addmovie.html

Rock on David, are you going to be at NAB?

David Newman
01-10-2008, 08:58 PM
Of course, in been in this country for 14 years and have worked at NAB in all 14 times (the last six with CineForm.) Our booth is always small, often we share with other companies, but we are there.

I Bloom
01-10-2008, 09:00 PM
Of course, in been in this country for 14 years and have worked at NAB in all 14 times (the last six with CineForm.) Our booth is always small, often we share with other companies, but we are there.

Then if I see you I may try to buy you some kind of beverage.:meh:

BASSAM MSSALATIE
01-11-2008, 10:59 AM
I don't know of them personal use, but I know they exist. It is a piece of cake to write such a tool.

Here one I just found : http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/video/addmovie.html

NICE AND FAST SOLUTION :usd: