Crazy EVF Idea!?

[Casey Green]

With the modular design of the RED ONE Camera body, I started thinking about different unorthodox ways of rigging the accessories, and then it occurred to me that since the EVF is not a part of the camera body and is free to move around, what about the idea of... wait for it.... two EVFs??? There are, after all, two output connectors available on the body (meant to allow the use of the EVF and LCD at the same time).

Yes, two View Finders would certainly be expensive, not to mention odd looking (you might need to position them slightly angled), but could there be practical applications if the operator could position one EVF for each eye?

At first I kinda thought it was silly, and then, the more I thought about it, more ideas came to mind of how it could be of value in certain situations.

Perhaps the second EVF could be setup as a "Slave", so that all of the menus were still controlled from the "Master" EVF and it was only used as an additional display. So the Master EVF on the right could be a normal image, and allow for menu controls, while the left could be set to False Color, or a full screen Magic Focus Assist or Histogram.

Other possibilities would be to have one EVF as Monochrome, Letterboxed, or even dedicate one EVF to full-time 1:1 scaling for help in difficult focusing situations. When pulling your own focus, being able to immediately see both image scales during the shot could really help.

The operator simply closes one eye to concentrate on what is important at the time. Even leaving both eyes open might be practical, just shifting focus from left eye to right eye when needed.

Also, other things such as Metadata could be on a full EVF screen while leaving the other to be completely free for just the image.

Anyway, I'd be curious what others think.

Could this be possible with some software changes down the road?

[SF Geek]

I think it's time for you to go to bed.

[Casey Green]

Thanks for contributing, SF Geek.

[esmilis]

AFAIK there can only be one vf connected, since the other port is at slightly smaller resolution for lcd

interesting ideas though :)

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

as a camera operator i love to keep my second eye free to watch the surroundings. A few buttons to activate fake colors or pixel zoom is i think more suited to avoir headhaches.

Mikael

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hmmm... I suppose there could be applications where two EVFs would be useful. One for the operator, one for a 1st AC or even the director.

But in all practicality, looks like we can really only connect one at a time. And, IMO, 1 for each eye just seems silly unless RED is upgraded at some point to shoot 3D -- new lens mount with spinning prism and ground glass and dual lenses, etc.. or by linking 2 cameras. At that point, it would make more sense to have a single EVF with dual eye-cups and 3D support.

[J.D. Frey]

I was thinking about two EVFs recently. We're currently working on connecting our RED one to a fluorescent microscope for a biotech client- two EVFs could help keep the ambient light down and have a closer aesthetic to a typical microscope- I'm sure the scientists would love that!

As a side note the RED hardware has allowed us the more easily design a rig that allows us to use it in this particular situation.

While not a total loss it's a bummer you couldn't connect both- I wonder if it's something that could be changed in the firmware? One thing I've found very enjoyable is making up crazy configurations.

J.D.

[Rich Schaefer]

Interesting idea. I wonder if they will be small enough to match the parallax tour eyes will need..... unless you can see with your eyes looking different directions.

Still, interesting idea.

[Zack Birlew]

Well, you could always buy two REDs and two EVFs and do 3D that way. Other than that, I'm not sure how useful that would be in practice. Having an LCD and EVF combo for the operator and focus puller is more user-friendly, I think, than having two EVFs being handed around, especially if you have to move around (ie. Steadicam). One operator using two EVF's is also a problem because the operator is essentially going blind and blinking over from eye to eye would just make for one disoriented camera op.

[Frank Mirbach]

I think EVF AND LCD would be the best way to go.My AC always demands for some kind of LCD for himself attached to the camera.

[Justin Kirchhoff]

For some reason putting both my eyes into EVF's and putting the camera handheld on the shoulder could result in someone getting shot....It would look like you're holding a rocker launcher.

[vincelucero]

I think Red should make one of those video goggles you wear but way cooler. If you do it right, they could totally revolutionize handheld and stedicam shooting. Imagine seeing the image and a portion of the environment simultaneously? What could a stuntman Scarlet op do without having to look at the monitor all the time?

[Wes Printz]

I think Red should make one of those video goggles you wear but way cooler. If you do it right, they could totally revolutionize handheld and stedicam shooting. Imagine seeing the image and a portion of the environment simultaneously?

I adapted one of these for a prominent Music Video DP back in the Mid 90's. Wanted to use an SR close to the ground the bottom of a pole while wearing roller skates. Made an entire "Pole Rig" Worked well, but as all flavor of the month items, it eventually went away.

Shooting 3D as you may or may not know, requires two cameras, set at a 90 deg angle to each other, with a beam splitter at 45 deg. Using ONLY the viewing system of the main camera.

[J.D. Frey]

For some reason putting both my eyes into EVF's and putting the camera handheld on the shoulder could result in someone getting shot....It would look like you're holding a rocker launcher.

wait- I thought that's what the revolution was all about- wasn't there was an anti-tank accessory at the red store somewhere...

[Bing Bailey]

how about building another piece that we could attach to create a souped up directors view finder. something pocket sized :)

[brandon herman]

Perhaps the second EVF could be setup as a "Slave", so that all of the menus were still controlled from the "Master" EVF and it was only used as an additional display. So the Master EVF on the right could be a normal image, and allow for menu controls, while the left could be set to False Color, or a full screen Magic Focus Assist or Histogram.

Other possibilities would be to have one EVF as Monochrome, Letterboxed, or even dedicate one EVF to full-time 1:1 scaling for help in difficult focusing situations. When pulling your own focus, being able to immediately see both image scales during the shot could really help.


I have no real interest in the EVF; but I am very interested in two LCDs or HDMI'd monitors for exactly these reasons.

Or how about one with the flat, RAW image, showing everything you're really recording, and the other with a stylized look applied.

I hope this catches on; I think people will realize how insanely valuable this can be.



(With 1:1 scaling on a second monitor, like for a focus puller, s/he should be able to use a joystick or something to move around the image, since you don't always want to focus on what's dead center. Can the Red do this already with single LCD viewing?)

[Casey Green]

Thanks for entertaining this idea. While unconventional, I think in certain situations, having two EVFs or two LCDs with individual controls for what they are displaying, could really be valuable.


as a camera operator i love to keep my second eye free to watch the surroundings. A few buttons to activate fake colors or pixel zoom is i think more suited to avoir headhaches.
Mikael

Hehehe.. sure, some styles of shooting would certainly not lend themselves to this since the operator may need to see their surroundings as in a SteadiCam or Handheld work. But imagine an operator with a long distance shot, with a long lens and a locked down Camera. (Maybe it's Jim at the racetrack, shooting a funny car) and he has one EVF for normal shooting and the other always set to 1:1 for super crisp focus adjustments while shooting. For someone without a focus puller, it could be very handy to just switch (blink to the other eye) when needed briefly to check focus without losing framing.

Leaving both eyes open, might even be possible (just like you would to check your surroundings, while still seeing the EVF with your dominant eye). In this case, you switch focus from eye to eye. Try looking through two scopes, if you have them, or even two rolled up pieces of paper. It is pretty easy to change your focal point without being distracted by the other image. And switching back and forth is instant, which would be essential, otherwise you could just take the time to press the 1:1 button, make your adjustment, and switch back. I think there is real potential here in certain circumstances.


I was thinking about two EVFs recently. We're currently working on connecting our RED one to a fluorescent microscope for a biotech client- two EVFs could help keep the ambient light down and have a closer aesthetic to a typical microscope- I'm sure the scientists would love that!

As a side note the RED hardware has allowed us the more easily design a rig that allows us to use it in this particular situation.

While not a total loss it's a bummer you couldn't connect both- I wonder if it's something that could be changed in the firmware? One thing I've found very enjoyable is making up crazy configurations.

J.D.

Exactly. I think we are in uncharted waters here. With the modularity of the Camera, even if some ideas seem odd, they are worth exploring.


...I am very interested in two LCDs or HDMI'd monitors for exactly these reasons.

Or how about one with the flat, RAW image, showing everything you're really recording, and the other with a stylized look applied.

I hope this catches on; I think people will realize how insanely valuable this can be.

(With 1:1 scaling on a second monitor, like for a focus puller, s/he should be able to use a joystick or something to move around the image, since you don't always want to focus on what's dead center. Can the Red do this already with single LCD viewing?)

Good question. You certainly would want the option to view any part of the scaled image. Can anyone answer if this is currently possible?

I hope this idea catches on too. While not necessary for a lot of shooting styles, two EVFs or LCDs could be a nice option to pull out of the bag of tricks.

[Rocco Schult]

it comes to the question if the EVF and LCD ports could drive either of them, not only one specifically like now and if the settings can be applied to both outputs simultaneously.
And in case of two same devices, if different settings could be applied (1 LCD with false color, one without etc., same for EVF, 1 with menu, 1 without).

Stuart or anybody: Would that be possible ? In a further build sometime in the future ?

[Stuart English]

it comes to the question if the EVF and LCD ports could drive either of them, not only one specifically like now and if the settings can be applied to both outputs simultaneously.
And in case of two same devices, if different settings could be applied (1 LCD with false color, one without etc., same for EVF, 1 with menu, 1 without).

Stuart or anybody: Would that be possible ? In a further build sometime in the future ?

Technically (ignoring the issue that the current firmware does not support any of these following options), we should be able to support two RED-EVF's or two RED-LCD's instead of one RED-EVF and one RED-LCD. But the video feed to these ports comes from a common source, hence you can't have different video treatments going on, but instead two identical copies of the same thing. The displays themselves might have other options though - such as REC709 display v's Linear, or Color v's Monochrome.

Do you see any value in this for your applications?

[J.D. Frey]

Yes- I see value in it, especially with different display options. I think the red is going to be immensely useful for monitoring a microscope- there are quite a few tools I can use that your basic microscope camera doesn't have- focus assist for example is a huge one. We've ordered the olympus occular adapter so i'll post the results (time lapse of the experiment) once we're up and running. It would also be nice to have two EVFs with the same output so If two people wanted to discuss what's happening at the same time, using the same instrument.

[Casey Green]

Technically (ignoring the issue that the current firmware does not support any of these following options), we should be able to support two RED-EVF's or two RED-LCD's instead of one RED-EVF and one RED-LCD. But the video feed to these ports comes from a common source, hence you can't have different video treatments going on, but instead two identical copies of the same thing. The displays themselves might have other options though - such as REC709 display v's Linear, or Color v's Monochrome.

Do you see any value in this for your applications?

Yes, I see quite a bit of value there. You could have a high contrast Monochrome version for seeing certain details while still having a normal image to look at.

Re: the video feed to the ports:

Any chance the LCD could be made to do 1:1 pixel scaling of the image on it's own, so you could have separate sizes for the focusing purposes mentioned above?