Confessions...

[Jannard]

OK. We are guilty. The RED ONE is not perfect. We are struggling with lots of things. And the "we are only in this two years" only goes so far. We can't use that excuse anymore. Don't buy it.

Here are just some of the reasons NOT to buy a RED ONE.

1. It appears that we are just coming out of beta-camera. The boot problems are gone. Most features are enabled... but you can still find stuff that isn't right or isn't finished. While we are solving problems everyday, the RED ONE is just "almost". Definitely NOT perfect.

2. Workflow. While we have a great relationship with Apple, our Avid workflow needs help. It is not automatic and won't be for many months (not years). REDCINE does rock. And it gets better everyday, but it isn't perfect yet. Transcodes are slow. And the fact the Graeme has reduced render times dramatically is great but it does not change the fact the we can get better. Look for Build 78. It is great. But not perfect.

3. Skew. We have more than film. Not much more, but more. We posted this a long time ago, but it bears repeating. While much better than almost every other CMOS sensor, it is there and if you whip-pan, you will see it more than a film camera. Most don't think it is an issue, but if you want to make it one... you can.

4. Meeting schedules. We are not meeting schedules as well as we would like. While we are doing the best we can, and have begun shipping again... we are behind. It is frustrating. I understand. You should complain. If it was my money, I would be be impatient. Keep posting that you want your camera NOW!

The RED ONE is not perfect. The above reasons are just a few of many. RED Digital is not perfect. We are building a camera company from scratch. It is tough as a m%^&*@fu&^%r. Not what we expected. But we are awake. Alive. And more dedicated than anyone you have ever met to deliver what you want and need. We are a small team trying to slay the giant. You have the right to be nervous. We are. We are so nervous that none of us can sleep. But you will have to kill us to stop us. If you bring up a problem, we will listen and get on it like a cheap suit. We have. We will. We always will.

We are our competitions worst nightmare. We will keep coming. Charlie Manson doesn't know the meaning of obsessed.

We are a patient customer's best friend. We will not forget you. We will make you happy whatever it takes. If we don't, we deserve to fade into the sunset like a bunch of other companies that didn't measure up.

If you want perfect... or finished, don't buy RED. If you are brave and want the ride of your life... give us a call.

Jim

[Emanuel A.]

Thanks for the sincere input. Keep up the good work alive!

E. :-)

[Casey Green]

unacceptable. :biggrin:

[Jason Ing]

Film isn't perfect. No camera is perfect.

But I think this is...

"...But you will have to kill us to stop us. If you bring up a problem, we will listen and get on it like a cheap suit. We have. We will. We always will. We are our competitions worst nightmare. We will keep coming. We are a patient customer's best friend. We will not forget you. We will make you happy whatever it takes. If we don't, we deserve to fade into the sunset like a bunch of other companies that didn't measure up."

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

BraveHeart ..:love: this is Jim ..and he will never change

[Brent@RED]

Great point, Jing. If film were perfect, we would not be in the business of attempting to slay that giant.

BC

[Naga]

Hmmmm
Im giving you a call...

[M.Halsell]

I will personally continue my support despite the odds. I am convinced from the evidence that the RED One is a solid camera even as it stands at the moment. As far as I am concerned, it has stood the test of fire. I do hope others understand the magnitude of the effort the RED team has taken on.

I do get a sense that most of the cameras shipped, the owners are out there using the Camera despite any perceived flaws and are probably quite satisfied with the visual results, even with the work arounds.

Most people in life are followers, life will alway "separate the wheat from the chaff". Apple's first computer was built and shipped with a wooden housing. Michael Dell sold his goods from the trunk of his car. - 'Let's keep it moving'.


Regards.

[S. Um]

Blah, blah, blah... So where's my camera?!

Just kidding. I think you've got the vision, the attitude, and the ability to execute. That's why my money's on Red.

[Israel]

Hoorah!

[Jason Ing]

Why slay it? One day you'll be a giant yourselves and then you'll look down and pat your little brother, Film, on the head.

[Nathan Garofalos]

Mr. Jannard, and the rest of the RED team.

You guys are awesome, seriously. I can honestly say that I have been inspired by RED and all that you do. For one of my classes yesterday, literally this was yesterday, we had to name some of our heros/sheheros. I put down Steven Spielberg, Orsen Wells, and Jim. Jim, you have made it possible for me to make the movies of my dreams. I have been able to talk with people who normally wouldn't give me the light of day. Your forum has allowed me to communicate with people who are nice and share the same interests at me, people who I normally wouldn't have had a chance to meet. I know you must be under a lot of pressure, stress, and dealing with difficult situations, but you have made a difference in my life as a story teller, and I have to say thank you. I look forward to being able to do business with you sometime in the near future; and I hope to see you at NAB this year, I'm looking forward to it. Thanks again for making a difference in my life.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Jim, I can't say thank you enough times for creating such a grand idea....

THE perfect camera! You didn't just create the idea, you've created the platform to deliver that idea and made it into a reality. Sure it isn't perfect as of yet......

But you have the heart and determination to accomplish the goal of the perfect camera, and I for one would once again like to thank you for the ride, it's been a fun one so far and I can't wait to see what 2008 brings both RED Digital Cinema and myself.

[Emanuel A.]

I think you've got the vision, the attitude, and the ability to execute. That's why my money's on Red.Well said.

[IAN SUN]

Any true work of art is never finished...

You're giving us wings, let's take 'em and fly.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

The hell with perfection!... A RED One will do. :love:

And what does "perfect" mean, anyway?

[Brian Fairbanks]

Just so you know the support is greatly appreciated. We have great customers so thanks to you guys

[Brent@RED]

Iz, your wife is giving birth in 7 hours, get off of REDUSER.

BC


Hoorah!

[Rick Darge]

Jannard, I respect your post, but frankly, I want my damn camera NOW!

[Dustin Cross]

Jim,

People should have realized Red One was going to have some problems in the begining. I knew there would be problems in the beginning.

I was at the Red booth on day one at NAB with a friend. He wanted to put his money down right then, but I told him to hold off, because there were going to be problems in the beginning. He didn't hold off long and ordered camera #138. He is still mad at me for talking him out of signing up sooner.

I waited until the last day of the initial round and ordered my Red on Oct 31 2006 and am getting camera #973. I am comfortable that most of the problems will be worked out by the time I get my camera. I didn't want to be an alpha tester or have a camera that I couldn't use because it didn't work correctly or had no post work flow.

I wish I had one of the first 25 cameras, but I am happy I waited and comfortable I will be getting a fully working camera by the time my number comes up.

Jim, you guys are doing great! Keep up the great work and please get me my camera ASAP.


Mahalo,
Dusty

[Jannard]

Jim, you guys are doing great! Keep up the great work and please get me my camera ASAP.

Mahalo,
Dusty

Get ready to send your money! And get ready for an "E-ticket" ride.

Jim

[Steve Gibby]

Anyone can play it safe...but it takes some serious sack to leapfrog out over the abyss...

Thanks for taking the leap Jim...

All of us who have gone RED have made a leap over the abyss of our own...

Are we lemmings chasing each other over the cliff...or eagles leaping out to soar in the wild blue yonder?

I say we're eagles...and safety nets are for sissies...

Thanks for the inspiration to take the RED leap...

There's no turning back now...and I wouldn't have it any other way...

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

woow Jim :love: what is that mean ??? something near ...:devil:

[Jannard]

I have to say that Gibby is one of the brave... not only one of the believers from "Day One", but one of the reasons we are where we are.

Jim

[Emanuel A.]

Ditto. So long life to U2.

[MAXHOFFMAN]

You have my trust and respect and I believe whole heartedly that RED ONE is THE camera that I am going to grow with as a storyteller.

[Seth Larney]

You rock Jim, thanks for your tireless commitment !!

and ... I want my camera NOW ! ;)

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Good words, Jim, your the Massimo Leader, that makes a lot of fun to listen to words, that came out directly from the hard, from the believing on something special. No one of this sweetwaterwhitshirted CEOs would be able to find words like this, to be this honest. You are Kerouac of the Digital Century with a good talent for timing and to keep us close to the Mystery. Thanks.

[Gian Joon]

Rome was not built in one day
RED REVOLUTION is nothing short of that
Jim, we are with you in this historic journey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Darren Orange]

Jim,
Your Humbleness may never stop being so amazing to me. You inspire, and that is a fantastic thing. Red is the only camera company that has made a camera thats great one day and becomes even greater the next. It's this ability to evolve and be humble that will lead to ultimate success. To have success you need to take care of people first business second. Jim, thanks for caring and starting the Revolution, know as "Red Digital Cinema Company"!

[Jason Ing]

And one more word... Perspective!

Feeling "guilty" for being almost "perfect", running out of "excuses", and falling "behind" is like the Flash saying after saving everyone's life, "Sorry I was late, folks. I'm feeling a little slow today and can't seem to break Mach 7..."

[Jim Hoffman]

Blah, blah, blah... So where's my camera?!.

Ha Ha! Laughed out loud on this one.

RED! & Jim. I agree with all that has been said. I also believe that you have inspired many a new business model and pathway to dream realization for many of us.

We believe so strongly that we have committed hard earned coin to back up our belief. For many in this business blood sweat and tears only make our pockets so full... Its the love of what we do and might do that drives us. There are easier ways to make money but for most of us not as much fun. And it can be pretty painful spending it. You have our hope, gratitude, cash ...

But seriously dude... Where are my cameras?

[Jannard]

But seriously dude... Where are my cameras?

Where is the cash? :-)

Jim

[Brook Willard]

Keep it up. If this is what you're disappointed in, I can't wait to see what you're happy with.

And where's my camera!? :wink: :)

[Jim Hoffman]

hope youre having a ball in Vegas and getting inspired yourself!

[Ken K]

I love what you guys are doing, I'm totally along for the ride and I'm amped to finally get my camera in a couple months! But take as long as you need! The longer you take delivering it to me, the more money I have saved up and less I need a loan for. :shifty:

[Jannard]

Keep it up. If this is what you're disappointed in, I can't wait to see what you're happy with.



I am personally completely happy with my camera. But others aren't. So we are not done.

I have already taken the best footage of my life with RED. And I know there is more to come.

I shot a two commercials with 35mm film (see oakley.com/innovation/history). Wish I had the RED ONE back then. "let is cleanse you of unconventional thought"...

I couldn't be happier with this camera.

Jim

[sander kamp]

4. Meeting schedules. We are not meeting schedules as well as we would like. While we are doing the best we can, and have begun shipping again... we are behind. It is frustrating. I understand. You should complain. If it was my money, I would be be impatient. Keep posting that you want your camera NOW!

Okay, you asked for it. I DO want it now.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Hey two Red employees new to the forums. Welcome. They're slowly starting to come out of the woodwork.

[Rick Darge]

Or at least an updated shipping schedule for the immediate next batch. I understand you guys are afraid to give out dates becuase they change so much but all of us realise the nature of this game and more than willing to cut you guys slack. Shipping schedules are the next best thing to firmware upgrades I'd imagine.

[Casey Green]

Where is the cash? :-)

Jim

"I'll gladly pay you tuesday for a Red Camera today." :innocent:

Rock on, Jim.

[Brook Willard]

I am personally completely happy with my camera. But others aren't. So we are not done.

I have already taken the best footage of my life with RED. And I know there is more to come.

I shot a two commercials with 35mm film (see www.oakley.com/history). Wish I had the RED ONE back then.

I couldn't be happier with this camera.

Jim

Good answer.

[Samuel Doyle]

I cant even afford a camera because I spent all I have on a website...but I am inspired by the story... keep up the great work.

[I Bloom]

I'm going to be broke after I buy this camera. Seriously Jim. You have to succeed because many of us are staking our entire livelyhood on your success. If you fade away we are f*cked. I've been renting the sh&t out of Reds and flying them from all over. Coding scripts all night to jump-start my workflow. I'm planning my own private LART as soon as I get my own not because I'm trying to compare it to some other camera, because I want to master it on it's own, faults and all. Like mixing paint on a pallet. Please ship the F-ing thing and as we say in this business, we'll fix it in post.

Ian

[Bruce Allen]

To me, Red seems so far ahead price/performance-wise that I'd happily call it perfect. But the fact that Jim thinks it isn't is a very good thing - so I guess I should keep my mouth shut and wait to see what happens next ;)


I will personally continue my support despite the odds. I am convinced from the evidence that the RED One is a solid camera even as it stands at the moment. As far as I am concerned, it has stood the test of fire. I do hope others understand the magnitude of the effort the RED team has taken on.

I do get a sense that most of the cameras shipped, the owners are out there using the Camera despite any perceived flaws and are probably quite satisfied with the visual results, even with the work arounds.

I'd say a heck of a lot more than satisfied - and I'm not even an owner ;)

Speaking for our Ringo shoot, that was done on firmware that was WAY LESS capable than what is on the cameras now. And our video just showed on the CBS early show - with a viewership of 2.8 million people.

This camera isn't hard to learn. The DP had never shot with a Red before, wasn't an owner or anything like that. We just made sure that we rented from a good DIT / owner (Manny) and we were fine. Angryseven, you seem like a smart chap. I'm sure when your camera arrives, you'll be up to speed in no time... that is if you've been able to resist renting one before that! Probably you'll be up to speed *before* your camera arrives.

When we were choosing between the Red and the F900, the Red was MUCH earlier in development. Of course the usual worries came up ("oh man, I heard the Beta firmware crashed on another camera" etc etc). But the fact is even back then if you use the stable firmware the thing's damn STABLE. Had zero issues. And the footage looked FANTASTIC!

Re: workflow, Avid is my favorite editing software - so yes I agree it can be improved a lot. But good grief man, being able to use CF cards is SWEEET. Not renting a HDCAM deck is sweet. The first time I rented a HDCAM deck it came configured in a weird mode by the rental house and I spent a very long time on the phone to them trying to figure the thing out. It seemed like a frikkin' 747. And I know my way around a digibeta deck, etc. Red is already wonderful because despite it being higher-res, you don't have to waste time fighting decks, figuring out weird cabling / compatibility issues, etc. The data-based workflow is fantastic and will only get better in the future.

For short-form stuff with reasonable-ish deadlines (commercials, music videos) I think you're already ahead of most competing camera systems in terms of workflow. And compared to film, the whole "no lab, no telecine" thing can't be beat ;)

For long-form or high-end Avid work & finishing, it's obviously not quite there yet, but if you look at the posts of people like MichaelP (who I think is some mega-guru who works at Avid, and is also on Reduser - a good sign!) you'll see we're definitely getting there.

Regarding transcode times, they can be a problem if you don't prepare for them. But the $450 PC I bought off Craigslist is pretty zippy at running RedCine. If you took the money you saved buying a Red instead of a competing camera and put just a fraction towards a RedCine render farm, you would be in business.

Wow, I'm getting long-winded. And everyone else wrote such nice poetic posts. Feel bad.

The Red team is really fantastic - meet them in person and they come across as super-humble, friendly and open. Like passionate fellow filmmakers - but smarter, more useful and with better manners ;) Hence posts like what Jim just wrote.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Jannard]

I'm going to be broke after I buy this camera. Seriously Jim. You have to succeed because many of us are staking our entire livelyhood on your success. If you fade away we are f*cked. I've been renting the sh&t out of Reds and flying them from all over. Coding scripts all night to jump-start my workflow. I'm planning my own private LART as soon as I get my own not because I'm trying to compare it to some other camera, because I want to master it on it's own, faults and all. Like mixing paint on a pallet. Please ship the F-ing thing and as we say in this business, we'll fix it in post.

Ian

Ian... your number will come up soon.

Jim

[Zakaree Sandberg]

camera #1015 please:) im having withdrawls

[Laco Zamba]

Bruce,

I agree, there is "no lab, no telecine", but today we need "RedCine render farm"
It's definitly cheaper, but it's slowing workflow.

[Bruce Allen]

Bruce,

I agree, there is "no lab, no telecine", but today we need "RedCine render farm"
It's definitly cheaper, but it's slowing workflow.

Ringo was all done on one Quad Mac Pro and an iMac. Much, MUCH faster than lab and telecine.

I've worked on music videos shot on film. All have had a slower turnaround from shoot to edit, and higher costs.
EDIT: sorry, I see you agree on costs...

If you are doing a 16-camera Red shoot over multiple days, then a render farm is needed.

Ringo was done before we could even edit Red Quicktime files easily in FCP. Now that's the case, it would be even quicker and easier to do.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Sanjin Jukic]

Jim thanks for a brave and honest report.

I heard there is a book on a way to be published>>>

Nobody's Perfect: RED ONE. :clown2: :)

I am just preparing to pay my RED this week.

Actually still checking the things about what do I need from accessories, etc...

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

OK. We are guilty. The RED ONE is not perfect.
Jim

Nobody´s perfect.

[RivaiC]

Most importantly, how u solve this problem so its risk/schedule can be reduce and meet to the customers. Some changes and actions need to be done from RED.

Yeah we patient and impatient at the same time.

Still, i appreciate all what you've done, honestly !

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

This might be a lame question, but:

Couldn't the skew be un-skewed in post? At the cost of some image degradation?

[Ryan Erwin]

I shot a two commercials with 35mm film (see oakley.com/innovation/history). Wish I had the RED ONE back then. "let is cleanse you of unconventional thought"...


Note that the vBulletin detected Jim's Oakley.com link with a ")" on the end of it...

You should use:

http://oakley.com/innovation/history

And come back later to order your RED T-Shirts...
Coming soon to www.RED.com/store

[Christian Edwards]

And come back later to order your RED T-Shirts...
Coming soon to www.RED.com/store (http://www.red.com/store)

i can imagine getting stopped in the streets having random conversations with cinematographers ...a sort of secret Red society code.."Yes, i belong to the Red Brotherhood!, i am no# 2227"

[Bruce Allen]

This might be a lame question, but:

Couldn't the skew be un-skewed in post? At the cost of some image degradation?

Karpetkov, so I far haven't seen any problems on Red shoots I've been involved with - so haven't needed to try to fix anything in post.

If skew ever is a problem, I'm sure I and other Redusers will let you know if we come up with any post solutions. I don't think there is an easy universal post skew fix. There have been a lot of discussions on reduser, most hypothetical. Practically anything can be fixed in post! Just sometimes it's less expensive to re-shoot.

I think it depends entirely on the subject. I'm sure in some situations it can't be fixed but for the average filmmaker who plans ahead, those should be extremely rare.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Casey Green]

I shot two commercials with 35mm film - see oakley.com/innovation/history - Wish I had the RED ONE back then. "let is cleanse you of unconventional thought"...
Jim

Those are 2 great spots, Jim. Dark overtones accentuated by the music and foley, along with the excellent production quality. I wish I could see these projected in RED 4K.

Thanks for sharing.

[Hrvoje Simic]

Your attitude towards the community and the passion to your dream deserves our understanding and love to this project.
The only reason I wasn't in the lower #'s were uncertain financial projections at the time.

Rates for the same type of work are much lower here. That didn't stop us from ordering.
Due to delays we postponed shooting few important projects for which we wanted to be done on Red One.
We didn't bitch about it. Patience was one of the prices everybody had to be aware of in the start.

There is something beautiful which you decided to share. For that you will be rewarded. In many ways.
One example is support and belief of thousands. Globally sent positive energy.
The second is artwork of many which will come. There will be more...

Just keep in mind that without the downs you wouldn't feel the ups...

[galexander]

Well, I'm glad to see that someone else has the balls to write mother f_ck_r in their post as well..... Yeah!!

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6684

[Craig Bowman]

Jim its great that the head of a company sits down to chat with customers to see that things can improve.

[ChristopherKenworthy]

The last time I shot on film we lost whole reels to lab problems. So, I'm happy to accept your "imperfect" solution. And I never whip-pan, so no worries on that count.

Jim, you often talk about how small the company is. Would it help, and be affordable, to get more staff so you can all relax a tiny bit more, and get things out the door faster? I know you're an exceptionally successful person, so this could easily sound patronising, but it's not meant to. I just wonder if running Red might be easier on you if it was a tiny bit bigger. Not Sony size. Just a handful of extra people. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ruairi Robinson]

This might be a lame question, but:

Couldn't the skew be un-skewed in post? At the cost of some image degradation?

One of the shots demonstrating this problem was shot *through* the windows of a train rushing past really fast. Meaning what was seen through the windows/directly behind the train in the background was not skewed, but the train in the foreground was. Not likely you can fix something like this in post...! Camera pans, maybe.

On another note, I do think Red are doing a terrible job of expectations management. (quite apart from publicity, which they obviously excel at...!) I'm told my camera should be ready in february. I don't really believe it, and honestly I'm fine with it - I'd rather it be good and ready by the time I get it, but I do think they should give us more conservative estimates, so when they DO ship, they look like they are ahead of schedule, or meet it.

Working in ads, you learn to always give yourself a buffer zone for delivery in case something goes wrong and it takes longer than you expected (hey, you can always use that extra time to improve things anyway, so you aren't cheating anyone...!) But the result is, you always look good, because you always make good on your promises.

Of course if they do actually have my camera ready when they said they will, I won't be complaining :)

R.

[Mark L. Pederson]

I want my damn 4K projector NOW!

I want GOOD, SOLID, SHARP primes NOW!


I would not trade the "Red Ride" we have had so far for anything in the world.

We are so excited about the future of filmmaking and the technologies that will grow in, and around the Red camp. RED is game changing.

I know you are frustrated. I am pretty sure you know that comes automatically with just trying to do what so many said could not be done.

But I hope, with all sincerity, that are also PROUD.

We are personally completely happy with our cameras.

I am behind you and your company 150% until you retire. And I do not see that happening for ... a while.

[PaulClements]

Jim,

I just got my hands on Sonic Films first camera yesterday so it's hard for me to find any harsh words for Red at this time. It's a great piece of kit and feels like a battering ram it's that solid. Any improvements that you can do for it will only enhance it.

Anyone who hasn't had the chance to actually play with the thing is in for a treat when they open their boxes. I'll be sure to write up my first impressions later when I've had a little longer to play with it but so far I've been more than impressed.

Good work - But work harder :)

Paul

[Carlo Rho]

The first production manager that hire me as an assistant said me, first sentence: "If I ask you to do something, don't ask me when... the answer will be always YESTERDAY!"

... so, I'm cash ready and you lazy guys?
:ranting2: :ranting2: :ranting2:
Where are my babies? Are you sleeping?
I WANT MY REDs NOW!

Whatever... it's just a not perfect camara....

[Carlo Rho]

Joking.... Thanks a lot for the effort, I'll wait my turn, apparently quiet on this forum...
where my girl doesn't post what she thinks about me & RED!

[Ed Watkins]

Jim, thanks for your honesty on this. It is greatly appreciated.

My concerns lie not with the camera, but the accessories.
For me, one of the things that made this camera so revolutionary were the accessories your company promised. The HD EVF, the 320GB REDDRIVE and the Nikon/Cannon Lens mounts.

This made the RED a camera ideal for many varied purposes (not least documentary work). Without them the RED is still an amazing camera but some of it's potential is definitely lost.

Getting the accessories finished and delivered along with the cameras would make me a very happy man.

[Tony Lorentzen]

I couldn't be happier with this camera.

If that's true, then what will push things forward at RED in the future? :tongue:

[Tony Lorentzen]

I shot a two commercials with 35mm film (see oakley.com/innovation/history). Wish I had the RED ONE back then. "let is cleanse you of unconventional thought"...

Nice! Being danish (no it's not just something you eat) I love the fact that you used the classic 1992 Bang & Olufsen Beolink 7000 (http://213.206.141.235/prod_details.asp?pid=697) remote in the "Max Fear Light" commercial. It just goes to show that great design never fades.

[Harry Clark]

Jim, thank you.
It has been a fun ride, and I think we all feel like we're part of something special.
Not perfect. Of course. New companies and their debut products rarely are. Lots of Hollywood cinematographers and camera operators resisted using the early Arri II cameras, because it had a spinning shutter, tiny through-the-lens eyepiece (instead of the parallex-corrected viewing screen of the Mitchells) and a different lens mount. Now today, where is Mitchell and where is Arri?
When the early Toyota and Datsun (now Nissan) cars first came to the states, they were laughed at. Ford and GM buyers thought they were cheap tin cans with shoddy workmanship. What about the car buyers of today? How about stodgy IBM, giving away the OS business to a goofy little company called Microsoft, and sure that they would crush upstart Apple in the process? How many computers today run Windows and OS X versus IBM's OS2?
I could go on but we all get the point. Industries change. Business models change. Innovative products are sloppy in the beginning, then mature, and are then themselves replaced. We are all happy to own an innovative, if unfinished product.
Now having said that, WHERE'S MY CAMERA??? ;)
Cheers,
Harry

[Colin C]

Harry is right, there is certainly something special and a degree of passion/enthusiasm that I for one haven't found anywhere else while researching what camera to get. Certainly isn't boring.


i can imagine getting stopped in the streets having random conversations with cinematographers ...a sort of secret Red society code.."Yes, i belong to the Red Brotherhood!, i am no# 2227"

Suggested 5th movie concept - Indy Jones and the Red Brotherhood

Dr Jones must pass three trials before getting his Red One.

1. The penitent film-maker must wait patiently for his turn in line.

2. J-A-N-N-A-R-D (Don't forget about the "J")

3. Getting past the Lion's Head is all part of the ride :biggrin:

...Its past my bedtime, that's my excuse...and I want one of those T-shirts as well.

[Joe Vinson]

1. The penitent film-maker must wait patiently for his turn in line.

2. J-A-N-N-A-R-D (Don't forget about the "J")

3. Getting past the Lion's Head is all part of the ride :biggrin:



In Latin, Jannard beginsh with an "I"!

[David Birdy]

Jim,

Very well said bravo!

My 10% is down if you need more of a down payment to get my camera out the door just ask!
If you need more good Engineers just ask.. I would be glad to help get those cameras out the door..especially if it gets my camera to me faster!
Here’s an idea from days gone past….A barn raising…..That’s of course when neighbors and friends pitched in to help build a barn in a few days…I’m in….anyone else?

Enjoy the CES and call me when you return !

[REDHKSC]

I have told to my RED CHINESEs in the RED MAP that we knew the RED Ones " No Perfect " from DAY ONE.

Are SONY / Panasonic / JVC are Perfect ? ?? The answer is No to all the RED ones holders ( We are just only 4,000 Brave Red ones holders in the world )

Cheers,

STEWART

[Stephen Williams]

How about stodgy IBM, giving away the OS business to a goofy little company called Microsoft,


Hi,

IBM had their own operating system, Microsoft was a cheaper option which one the game.

Stephen

[Frank Mirbach]

It´s the way it is. No one is forced to buy Red. For those of us who placed an order, I think we´knew what we´ve been up to, accepted the flaws and shifted delivery dates and are proud to be part of this. Patience is the keyword. At the end of the journey, I´m convinced, Red will kick ass. And the industry knows it. You should have seen the Arri guys faces at IBC, visiting the Red booth...

[David Limpus]

I admit that the delay has been disappointing though believe it has had benifits to end result. But I am still up for the ride of my life. Even if a 4K display is going to break the bank.

Though it leads to a questions, with the transition from beta testers to a larger user base I would like to hear from Red Digital Cinema as what are the most effective ways that the end user can help in improving the RED One camera and workflow? As more red one camera's ship is there going to be a way of obtaining clearer information via "service bulletins" or "FYI eg. instances of xyz have been seen" keeping user/owners informed? What will help in freeing up the time of the RED team to continue improving camera firmware and workflow?

I am grateful for the knowledge gained from the forum users. But in the future I hope to be using my time using Red One then searching as what to look out for in each firmware build or software update.

David

[Jason Diamond]

I'm so excited a drooling to get my camera! and i echo the thoughts of others that if what i've seen and heard is what you are unhappy with from a "gotta fix it" standpoint, then we are in for an amazing ride and i bought my ticket a year ago and havent regretted it since. you make the little guy feel like the big guy who can do anything and will.

thanks for leveling the playing feel and even laying some new sod!

jason

[REDHKSC]

Our body is full of " RED Blood " and little Hurts are OK.
No Pain no Gain. May I ask all RED ones owners / holders that why we need Perfect ? There were NO PERFECT things in the world.

Stew....
HKG/CHINA



OK. We are guilty. The RED ONE is not perfect. We are struggling with lots of things. And the "we are only in this two years" only goes so far. We can't use that excuse anymore. Don't buy it.

Here are just some of the reasons NOT to buy a RED ONE.

1. It appears that we are just coming out of beta-camera. The boot problems are gone. Most features are enabled... but you can still find stuff that isn't right or isn't finished. While we are solving problems everyday, the RED ONE is just "almost". Definitely NOT perfect.

2. Workflow. While we have a great relationship with Apple, our Avid workflow needs help. It is not automatic and won't be for many months (not years). REDCINE does rock. And it gets better everyday, but it isn't perfect yet. Transcodes are slow. And the fact the Graeme has reduced render times dramatically is great but it does not change the fact the we can get better. Look for Build 78. It is great. But not perfect.

3. Skew. We have more than film. Not much more, but more. We posted this a long time ago, but it bears repeating. While much better than almost every other CMOS sensor, it is there and if you whip-pan, you will see it more than a film camera. Most don't think it is an issue, but if you want to make it one... you can.

4. Meeting schedules. We are not meeting schedules as well as we would like. While we are doing the best we can, and have begun shipping again... we are behind. It is frustrating. I understand. You should complain. If it was my money, I would be be impatient. Keep posting that you want your camera NOW!

The RED ONE is not perfect. The above reasons are just a few of many. RED Digital is not perfect. We are building a camera company from scratch. It is tough as a m%^&*@fu&^%r. Not what we expected. But we are awake. Alive. And more dedicated than anyone you have ever met to deliver what you want and need. We are a small team trying to slay the giant. You have the right to be nervous. We are. We are so nervous that none of us can sleep. But you will have to kill us to stop us. If you bring up a problem, we will listen and get on it like a cheap suit. We have. We will. We always will.

We are our competitions worst nightmare. We will keep coming. Charlie Manson doesn't know the meaning of obsessed.

We are a patient customer's best friend. We will not forget you. We will make you happy whatever it takes. If we don't, we deserve to fade into the sunset like a bunch of other companies that didn't measure up.

If you want perfect... or finished, don't buy RED. If you are brave and want the ride of your life... give us a call.

Jim

[Simon Valderrama]

OK. We are guilty. The RED ONE is not perfect. We are struggling with lots of things. And the "we are only in this two years" only goes so far. We can't use that excuse anymore.

Jim, great post.
Really like your way of thinking and doing.
The only thing that still confuses my is this one:
given all the things you all are struggling with, given all the problems and stress, why already thinking about Scarlet?
Isn't Scarlet going to absorb efforts and attention from the RED team?

Ok, i admit it. I'm Jealous of Scarlet.
I would like you guys to care only about our unborn REDs ... :love:

[Frank Mirbach]

Our body is full of " RED Blood " and little Hurts are OK.
No Pain no Gain. May I ask all RED ones owners / holders that why we need Perfect ? There were NO PERFECT things in the world.

Stew....
HKG/CHINA

Now, that´s the right attitude !!

[Milan Nikolic]

Jim you are great communicator and you are making great camera! Getting camera better from time to time is great as well. Thanks to you and your RED team.

[Ash Bolland]

Righton Jim.

Well I want a our camera now!

btw we are using a red to rebrand mtv oz this month
we are really looking forward too it...

-

[Lachlan Ward]

Good luck Jim, good luck Red team.

And wack out a 24 - 6000fps camera in a year or 2;>

[R. Gonzales]

Jim I am one of those patient customers. Please send cameras ASAP.

Respectfully

Method

[Darren Orange]

Perfection is something to be desired, not had.

[Chris Gearhart]

What impresses me most--and gives me the most confidence in RED is, ultimately, the persevering commitment to the company's core values.

Watching the team go through the "ride" has been encouraging: The ride for them has gotten dicey, challenging, lots of sleepless nights and frayed nerves, problems with the cameras, restless natives and impressive opposition from big boys, tension, shipping hiccups, and who knows what else we don't see.

But through it all, it seems the core values seem to be stubbornly adhered to and the team seems (ultimately) unaffected. This is a company who knows who they are, and what they're about, and can maintain that in a fairly open relationship with the customer base. That, y'all, is very hard to do, and that separates the men from the boys.

This is what keeps me unworried though the process. Imperfect? Sure. But there is no perfect in the tech industry.

Cutting edge must keep cutting. When it stops, it's just a bleeding heart.

[Shawn Nelson]

What easy battles are worth fighting?

Lead on Jim, we're right behind you!

[albert rudnicki]

I guess all is said...
I don't trust anyone who claims that something is "perfect"
Your statement Jim, however alarming, becomes reassuring after a while.
I like that, and I am signing under it.

I am ready, so is my bank account.

[KETCH ROSSi]

OK.
If you want perfect... or finished, don't buy RED. If you are brave and want the ride of your life... give us a call.

Jim

Well... after waiting for about two years and literally putting my all life on hold for this camera, including postponing moving back home to Italy (which in my condition it is definately not OKAY to do so), I continue to truly believe in RED and most of all what RED can do for me and can do together.

Unfortunately having to wait two years for my REDs and do to recent events, has now put me in a position were (mostly do to the Real Estate market ) I do not have the financials as I did before putting me in a precarious situation.

But how much do I still believe in RED and trust the RED team?

If I had a kidney to sale I would do it in a second, unfortunately I only have one, and it is even my own, its the one my sister donated me.

One thing for sure is that nothing is stopping me from coming up with the cash for my REDs, "NOTHING" I have already put my beautiful house for sale and working with a financial institution as well.

After my near death experience RED is what give me the spark to continue the Pursuit to my dream as a StoryTeller.

Thanks Jim for your post and dedication to your company.

Thanks all at RED for your hard work.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Jonathan Cruz]

Jim not even life is perfect, keep that courage coming and you will truely succeed

[planet e]

The cash is sitting inertly in a bank account, waiting to be converted to a living, breathing camera. :weight_lift:

Bring on #1008! Now, if not sooner! Oh, and about that mattebox. When can we start crackin the whip on its price/time to market??

I don't wanna give my cash to a 3rd-party, I want to give as much of it as I can to RED, so that y'all can keep working your tails off, delivering excellent products at great prices, on my behalf!

[Adam Jeal]

Well... after waiting for about two years and literally putting my all life on hold for this camera, including postponing moving back home to Italy (which in my condition it is definately not OKAY to do so), I continue to truly believe in RED and most of all what RED can do for me and can do together.

Unfortunately having to wait two years for my REDs and do to recent events, has now put me in a position were (mostly do to the Real Estate market ) I do not have the financials as I did before putting me in a precarious situation.

But how much do I still believe in RED and trust the RED team?

If I had a kidney to sale I would do it in a second, unfortunately I only have one, and it is even my own, its the one my sister donated me.

One thing for sure is that nothing is stopping me from coming up with the cash for my REDs, "NOTHING" I have already put my beautiful house for sale and working with a financial institution as well.

After my near death experience RED is what give me the spark to continue the Pursuit to my dream as a StoryTeller.

Thanks Jim for your post and dedication to your company.

Thanks all at RED for your hard work.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

Hey Ketch! - you really deserve to do well. You're a stand-up guy & I for one hope you have a good 2008! - I reaaaaally need my cameras but I think you need yours more.

best,

adam

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Jim,

I want my m(*&$er f*#*&Bg camera now, because when SXSW comes around in March, I want to be one of the only companies there to offer a RED at the trade show. It's a huge deal for me and I'm anticipating a large crowd. There's something inside me burning and RED is feeding the fire. Work hard, fast, and efficiently, and hire my ass if you need more help.

All of us are extremely dedicated to all that is RED. How many people can say they check RED user 100 times a day for changes? How many people can say they own a RED? How many love this effin' company? Let's roll on this, baby.

[Travis]

In keeping with Jim's message and after seeing some of your responses, I just want everyone here to be rest assured that all of us here in the Bomb Squad are moving like madmen to answer all your e-mails, field your calls, and most importantly, get you guys your cameras.

All of us here take an extremly vested interest in each of you. Trust me, there is no bigger surge of satisfaction or excitement for me then when I recieve a tracking number and am able to tell you that your camera is coming. Our whole crew down here is full of film minded people and I'm so pumped and blown away by this camera that if asked, I would probably work here for free just to be a part of this.

Although Brent has stressed this point quite a few times, remember that we are here, ready to help you get the information you need and give you some peace of mind. I personally check and answer urgent e-mails even after hours. So there is always someone watching, always someone listening, always someone to talk to.

[Craig Bowman]

Travis I must say dealing with you has been a total pleasure and I completely appreciate the information you've supplied me. Welcome to the board!

[Adrian Correia]

I was going to buy an HVX package two years ago, until I saw that banner on top of DVXUser...so I ignored my grandfather's advice and put all my eggs in this basket and there have been no regrets.

In terms of the camera not being perfect...a painting is never done....the painter just decides to put down his brush.

I don't think Jim is ever going to put down his brush...which is good news for all of us, and digital cinema in general...besides, he'd probably just whip another brush out of his back pocket and keep slathering on paint.

[Adrian Correia]

oh, yeah....where is my camera!?!?!

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

I would probably work here for free just to be a part of this.

.

ME TOO i hope that:love:

[Greg Syverson]

Jim thanks for holding on the camera I would like to get. I am happy just waiting and giving you all the time you need. Many people are wanting it now and then when they get it, they are unhappy. I can wait and prefer you get all the time you need to have it 100%. Then again the first red holders have paved the path for inprovements. Thanks Red team for taking the time correct and improve as time goes on.

[Travis]

Craig! It has been a pleasure to see this thing come together my friend. Numbers are coming!

[Luis de la Cerda]

...We are so nervous that none of us can sleep...Jim

You guys should catch up on your zzz's. It's not worth ruining your health for this. Besides, we need you healthy for a long time to come :)

[Michael Hastings]

...and I'm so pumped and blown away by this camera that if asked, I would probably work here for free just to be a part of this.


don't let Jim see this - you don't get to be a billionaire by wasting money!!!:greedy: :turned: :biggrin:

Got my email, got my camera. thanks Travis.

[Adrian T.]

Gimme my camera, pronto! :angry03:

We love you, Jim! :love:

[Vladimir Eugene]

Being in the first hundred group- If I got what I signed up for at NAB 2006 as almost every biz does, I would have wished I had waited a little while longer so I could get the new PL mounts, and the adjusted filter- now being faced with an upgrade charge.

Luckily- things don't work like that around here. Upgrade for free- no problem, heck, we'll just give you a new camera. I had to re- read that a few times. "Are you fu@#$ kidding me?" We'll even bring it in and ship it out at our own expense-- now that's crazy.

Since this is OUR special reality, sure- I want it now.

my 2 cents

Vladimir Eugene

[Thor Wixom]

I don't expect perfection. I have never owned a perfect camera, and I never expect to (no offense, Jim).

But the Red One seems to be as close to perfect as I could expect at this point in the history of technology, and it's a work in progress so I know it will only continue to get better.

If I were going to define anything as perfect at this point, it would be Jim's commitment. And I'm buying that as much as I'm buying his camera.

Imagine Bob Ott (VP, Sony) getting on a public message board and opening himself to the criticisms of an entire community. Then imagine him implementing changes to a current camera model. Never gonna happen. Ever.

-Thor

[Gian Joon]

Well... after waiting for about two years and literally putting my all life on hold for this camera, including postponing moving back home to Italy (which in my condition it is definately not OKAY to do so), I continue to truly believe in RED and most of all what RED can do for me and can do together.

Unfortunately having to wait two years for my REDs and do to recent events, has now put me in a position were (mostly do to the Real Estate market ) I do not have the financials as I did before putting me in a precarious situation.

But how much do I still believe in RED and trust the RED team?

If I had a kidney to sale I would do it in a second, unfortunately I only have one, and it is even my own, its the one my sister donated me.

One thing for sure is that nothing is stopping me from coming up with the cash for my REDs, "NOTHING" I have already put my beautiful house for sale and working with a financial institution as well.

After my near death experience RED is what give me the spark to continue the Pursuit to my dream as a StoryTeller.

Thanks Jim for your post and dedication to your company.

Thanks all at RED for your hard work.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com


Hey Ketch, that was really moving stuff. Good on you, Mate.
I can tell you will be going long way.

[A. Bastaki]

i just noticed something. when jim cursed... every fregging guy started cursing. lol. even the most well behaved ones. lol.

I kinda waited for the day to see anyone from the red team to start cursing.. jim started it. hehahaha.

oooh.. i loove to cuss.

Jim, ure The f*&&ing man. There are very few passionate business men. they are usually just like.. bingo.. made alotta money.. lets get some booz. I dont think bill gates was passionate, i dont think he is. the apple guy .. steve jobs is kinda passionate about apple... but i find his passion a bit shady... somewhat weird.

I admire ure passion jim, ure the most passionate business man i've ever known. I just hope that someday when my kids sit in a classroom taking a film class or a photography class, they'd open to a chapter in their book and it sais.. the man who painted the silver screen red.

the whole Waiting and bickering part was inevitable from the very beginning. it's just that everyone from you, ure team and us.. the mini memorabillia holders... could say to our grandchildren.. yeah.. i was a part of it too.. we open this hidden cookie box and get the weird thing with holes out.

... i wouldve made up a more emotional and sexy story if there was adobe support.. looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool. hahaha..

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Really moving, yes.

[A. Bastaki]

Really moving, yes.

i'm pretty sure i somewhat ruined it when i mentioned the adobe bastards.

[Robert Sanders]

I am personally completely happy with my camera. But others aren't. So we are not done.

I have already taken the best footage of my life with RED. And I know there is more to come.

I shot a two commercials with 35mm film (see oakley.com/innovation/history). Wish I had the RED ONE back then. "let is cleanse you of unconventional thought"...

I couldn't be happier with this camera.

Jim


Hey Jim - did you direct the Max Fear Light commercial? That was a great piece.

[Warren Kommers]

I'm behind the effort/project/mentality all the way. Love all of it, find it inspiring, wish I was involved more directly, and I want my cameras as well. However I do have admittedly high standards that have been challenged in the last couple months.

The camera is so close to almost perfect with a few things that do concern me as a professional that can find a way to shoot 35mm in most projects if I wanted to. The skew thing in the Brooklyn footage scares me a bit. Things fly by the lens all the time in filmmaking/life. The limited latitude and low sensitivity of the camera are not things that will take the audience out of a film if dealt with properly. The skew does. It worries me a bit. The audience will have a tolerance for latitude/sensitivity limitations but when things that we are familiar with(ie trains, buildings) are distorted the next thing to come is "wha"? Not OMG I hope my protagonist makes it out of this car chase or whatever.

Now sure there are ways to shoot around this as with limiting characteristics
of any camera. Nothing is perfect. However, I have to admit I'm concerned about this one a bit. Only my own tests will be able to tell what the threshold is for it I suppose.

I know the Mysterium is the heart of the camera or maybe it's the people, but are there CMOS sensors now that have faster reset times, increased sensitivity, more latitude now? Two years later. I know that there is much work to be done still and RED has probably made a huge investment in the Mysterium, and I have no idea of the huge ramifications of thinking about other sensors at this point. However I know that there is only so much(firmware) that can be done now to improve the image. We'll see build 14 I guess. I just remember the split screen of the Mysterium uncompressed/REDCODE projected in 4k here in LA and there wasn't much being lost.

It's just that the camera is sooooooooooo close to being the closest to perfect camera in the world. Just had to pose the question. Don't hate me for it.

(disclaimers)

1) No I don't want my money back. I want it!

2) I understand completely the price/performance bad assedness of this camera regardless of it's few shortcomings. However this is not the biggest thing for me.

3) I have no idea of the production/business aspects of making something like this. Can't imagine.

4)I want my cameras bad but I would be willing to wait if the hardware needed more time. It's still so far ahead of everyone else.

[Seth Larney]

Hey Hollywood,

I just wanted to add that Jim did mention that something may have been inadvertantly changed in build 12 that may have affected the skew.. so hopefully this will be reversed a little. Let's wait and see..

Cheers,
S.

[Mark L. Pederson]

i'm pretty sure i somewhat ruined it when i mentioned the adobe bastards.

Adobe has GREAT products.

I don't understand why everyone says there is "no Adobe support" for RED?

That is like saying the is no Adobe support for stuff shot on film.

Adobe products support Quicktime, TIFF & DPX - all which can be made from .r3d files. They don't NATIVELY decode .r3d - but FCP & Avid don't either.

I know you were making a joke - but I keep seeing this "no Adobe support" and it drives me nuts.

[Warren Kommers]

Hey Hollywood,

I just wanted to add that Jim did mention that something may have been inadvertantly changed in build 12 that may have affected the skew.. so hopefully this will be reversed a little. Let's wait and see..

Cheers,
S.

thanks seth. yes i heard that. waiting to hear...

[Antoine Fabi]

well...since you asked for..

Bring the @#@& Camera NOW !!!!!

I feel Beta anyway :)

[Obin Olson]

Good god jim I like your fighting spirit.....wow what a dude you are, a man of my heart..... I am feeling alot like you in terms of fighting the monster that is making great content and commercial work. Like you my brother and I will not back down and will not stop till we stand atop the peak of success. Your camera is going to help us climb, thank you.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

well...since you asked for..

Bring the @#@& Camera NOW !!!!!

I feel Beta anyway :)

hi is it like some decoded conversation here ??:)

[Mise-en-Scene]

Hi Jim!

You remind me of James T. Kirk. You both are driven and definitely too hard on yourselves!!

Relax and smell the coffee. Take a break. You deserve it!!

I am just jazzed that you have invented an affordable professional cinema camera. Prior to RED, I was considering the Panasonic Varicam and the Sony F-900 CineAlta (720P and 1080P respectively). RED blows them out of the water! No disrespect to Sony (I have a bluray player-- forgive me...), but these conglomerates would never sell their cameras at an affordable price (for the masses).

Thanks a million for giving us all the tools necessary to continue pursuing our dreams (in this life time).

I got bit by the moviemaking bug back in 1989. If RED was available then, I would have started my new venture a long time ago. Better late than never.
I waited 18 years. I think I can wait a bit longer. (smiles)

Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! GO RED TEAM!!

[Gian Joon]

JUST MY VIEWS

Why we try to compare REDONE with film cameras is because film cameras came first. That does not say they are better. We have set standards based on film cameras.

If it had been otherwise that REDONE had come first and then film cameras, I believe we would have all been trying to compare them with REDONE and may be finding faults in film cameras.

Standalone quality of both systems is awsome, there are advantages and disadvantages in both systems. But the biggest advantage REDONE has given to me is that I can dream again of making films. With film cameras may be that was not possible.

[Lachlan Ward]

Hi Jim!

You remind me of James T. Kirk. You both are driven and definitely too hard on yourselves!!



And he gets it off with hot alien birds whilst making the human race look good.

Thanks Jim, I do believe that what you and the Red guys have done is quiet the feet. I also believe that we will see a whole new wave of film making because of this. A global Nouvelle Vague. I know its definitely going to spark some serious film making here. Viva la revolution VIVA LA RED. How fitting it is that Soderbergh's first films on Red is about one of the greatest revolutionaries of the 20th century.

Keep up the superior work Jim & Red Team:weight_lift: . Behind you all the way.

[Gregory Leno]

We are struggling with lots of things. And the "we are only in this two years" only goes so far.

I keep remembering your tombstone engraving...

"Most things in life are easy to understand, difficult to execute"
or something to that effect.

It helps keep my expectations in line with reality.
I don't think we have any idea how difficult it is to do what you've already accomplished.

Perfection is a process not an end.

Thanks for the honesty and take a deep breath. We'll be fine.

Greg

[Vern Nobles Jr.]

Remember the only constant in film is change and we live in an imperfect
world. If RED was perfect it would not have a place in
this world.

[Kyle Mallory]

Jim. F--- You! I don't care how much you talk trash about this camera.. I AIN'T LEAVING! I put down money on a a RED ONE, and I'm not gonna shut up about it, Linux, or anything else relating to it, until I have it in my hands... and probably not even then. So stop trying to convince me to give it back! You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands!

</sarcasm> Seriously though, that was an awesome post. I'd tell you all about it, but everyone else already did. Honestly, I think I LOVE YOU MAN!

Kyle

[Casey Green]

It's been an incredible ride so far, but just imagine where things will be in a year or two.

"we ain't seen nothin' yet".

[M Hsu]

very inspiring words Jim. I love what you're doing. I love it so much, I bet $20,000 dollars that RED one will be a great camera. I wired it to you last week actually...

[Elizabeth]

Perfection is a never-ending process.

Any person or project is born into POTENTIAL PERFECTION and then BECOMES more and more excellent through our passion and commitment to the process.

I think that "perfect" is the light at the end of an ever-receding hall of mirrors. It is only by aiming for that light of perfection as our destination do we then achieve a degree of excellence. However, I am not sure that complete PERFECTION is ever really achieved ... only desired.

And this is enough for me to believe in it.

To paraphrase the immortal words of the wise Yoda:

"There is no try, only do.”

And from the outpouring of support from the RED community in response to your confession (for you have formed a dynamic community) the overwhelming opinion seems to be that you and your team are DOING remarkable things, and doing them with style and integrity ... complete “excellence” will be achieved as you continue to persevere. Your character will not allow anything less.

Almost more importantly, it also seems that as a result of this passion for your own dreams, you have inspired an incredible number of people like Nathan and Ketch (and myself included) to reach beyond their own perceived limitation to manifest some very wonderful dreams. Keep it up!

Bravo and thank you.

[galexander]

Hmm, whatever the Red marketing strategy is, the technological lead in getting 4k of data off the sensor at 24fps and greater is rapidly vanishing.
Now you can buy a Basler A400 series now starting at $10k AUS, camera link, 4 megapixels, 24 to 96 fps or the pilot series which is 1920 x 1084 at 32fps over GiGe. No these aren't ready for movie production and don't have the hooks to link in to a standard work flow, but it really wouldn't take much.

Moore's law still holds in six months the gap closes, I wouldn't be surprised if the big boys, Sony, Panasonic already have products just waiting to compete but there's no need to bring them to market at the moment to drive down the prices of their current overinflated products.

IMHO suggest do whatever it takes, break some balls, call in some production or software "gunslingers" and get to market now before they have a chance to react. They big boys are slow, but they have deep pockets with lots of hard-core, technical R&D and production man hours they can throw at a project in a short amount of time. Small companies can maybe throw 400 to 600 man hours a week at a project, they can throw thousands of man hours with full up fab and machine shops in a week.

[Rick Darge]

F the Big Boys. My $ is on Red.

[Jason Ing]

They big boys are slow, but they have deep pockets with lots of hard-core, technical R&D and production man hours they can throw at a project in a short amount of time.

But Red has the secret weapon, the proverbial "ace up their sleeve", that the big boys don't.

[Jason Ing]

Moore's law?

It took more than the inescapable marching of technology to create the revolution and phenomenon of "RED".

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Moore's law still holds in six months the gap closes, I wouldn't be surprised if the big boys, Sony, Panasonic already have products just waiting to compete but there's no need to bring them to market at the moment to drive down the prices of their current overinflated products.

By then RED will be 10 000+ units sold and halfway to a 70mm RED TWO.

What's that?

10 000 x 30-50 k $ = Oh, yeah!

And let's not forget Scarlet. That l'il bitch can pick a lot of big-boy pockets.

Those REDheads...

EDIT: Oops, not by six months, but I don't believe that the big boys will release their 4K competitors that soon.

[John Tissavary]

I read that review by that dp guy over at that rather well known mailing list (which I really love, btw....), and have to say I thought it was absolute bollocks.

Yeah there can be a little excessive exuberance over here at times; the leap to Red requires very little faith - this camera kicks ass and is completely useable in production. Is it wise to have a back-up body? Yes. Is it wise to rent from someone that knows the Red intimately and can support the production? F*&# yeah!

We shot our commercial with much earlier build of firmware that definitely had more (different?) limitations & bugs than the current version, and it was one of the best projects I've had the pleasure to be involved with, no small thanks to Red, Evin, Brook, and Sam D.

No doubt in my mind about the camera, and we're planning Red for all our upcoming shoots.

cheers,
jt

[galexander]

But Red has the secret weapon, the proverbial "ace up their sleeve", that the big boys don't.


which is.... give me a break if you don't understand the technology, don't try to "pull rabbit out of the hat"

[galexander]

Moore's law?

It took more than the inescapable marching of technology to create the revolution and phenomenon of "RED".

yes Moore's law... www.intel.com

without the technology of the high speed data transfer off the 4k chip, what do you have then?

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

I read that review by that dp guy over at that rather well known mailing list (which I really love, btw....), and have to say I thought it was absolute bollocks.

Yeah there can be a little excessive exuberance over here at times; the leap to Red requires very little faith - this camera kicks ass and is completely useable in production. Is it wise to have a back-up body? Yes. Is it wise to rent from someone that knows the Red intimately and can support the production? F*&# yeah!

We shot our commercial with much earlier build of firmware that definitely had more (different?) limitations & bugs than the current version, and it was one of the best projects I've had the pleasure to be involved with, no small thanks to Red, Evin, Brook, and Sam D.

No doubt in my mind about the camera, and we're planning Red for all our upcoming shoots.

cheers,
jt

Link? I'm not that familiar with the CML.

[galexander]

I read that review by that dp guy over at that rather well known mailing list (which I really love, btw....), and have to say I thought it was absolute bollocks.

Yeah there can be a little excessive exuberance over here at times; the leap to Red requires very little faith



leap of faith..??? wtf? there's no deity involved. it's technology and the application thereof. when you buy hardware from Basler, Kodak, JAI, Dalsa, they work, bullet proof, real-time, all the time, period.




- this camera kicks ass and is completely useable in production. Is it wise to have a back-up body? Yes. Is it wise to rent from someone that knows the Red intimately and can support the production? F*&# yeah!

cheers,
jt

now you've just more than doubled the cost of a typical production. people like myself who want to do independent films, can't afford to have two housings, a dedicated mini-fridge raid array, etc. this aristocratic approach of throwing more money at a problem just because you can is not something the financially limited can do.

[galexander]

By then RED will be 10 000+ units sold and halfway to a 70mm RED TWO.


seriously doubt that there is enough fab houses on the planet that could meet that number in a six month time frame.




And let's not forget Scarlet. That l'il bitch can pick a lot of big-boy pockets.


so show some specifications for Scalet, google or wiki "vaporware"

Red is still trying to figure out what the marketing audience is. go check out the recent thread of like 5 things you want scarlet to have. i've already put in my .02



EDIT: Oops, not by six months, but I don't believe that the big boys will release their 4K competitors that soon.

if the Big Boys, see a serious threat after NAB, they will have to, they need to protect their market share. that relatively new Sony CEO, seems to be just itching at a chance to make an impact. i wouldn't be surprised if one of them has indirectly benefited from the break-in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RED_Digital_Camera_Company

[Jason Ing]

yes Moore's law... www.intel.com

without the technology of the high speed data transfer off the 4k chip, what do you have then?

:) It says a lot that you have to ask that question and don't know the answer. :clown2:

And, although I was having fun with calling it a secret, etc., there's no "rabbit". There really is a reason Red has been successful that goes beyond technology (of course, it's crucial) but so are a lot of other elements that will keep them at the forefront of the pack (even after your gap closes. Oh no! Watch out! lol!)

Considering your tone, I'll let you figure it out. Jim and the Red Team already have. But then again, that's why you're not running the company. Leave the business to the smart guys like Jim & Company and try focusing back on your "occupation" of "being human". lol. :w00t:

[galexander]

:) It says a lot that you have to ask that question and don't know the answer. :clown2:

but i DO know the answer too bad you don't.... not even google can save you now. when you can explain what an MTF curve is, why it's useful, what does the timing looking like to get an image off the array, the physics behind it, what is the latency involved with the shift and add process? why do you want to add then shift? or shift then add? how many DN's are there in the dark current? ... then your otherwise useless, acinine and truly laughable comments might be taken as something more than a joke. i can answer all of these questions.



And, although I was having fun with calling it a secret, etc., there's no "rabbit". There really is a reason Red has been successful that goes beyond technology (of course, it's crucial) but so are a lot of other elements that will keep them at the forefront of the pack (even after your gap closes. Oh no! Watch out! lol!)

you have no clue at all? how has Red been successful at this point? profit? don't see that? in what manner whatsoever, has this venture been profitable by ANY benchmark. if you ask the boss, he would probably tell you that as of right now, it has NOT. he would probably say it has been a long, hard, bone shattering road. i get the impression it is NOT done for money.

you spout nothing but metaphors and ennuendos that are nothing more than meaningless dribble, while very entertaining and funny as hell. you've missed the point entirely. there is nothing wrong with admitting your ignorant of something. it's the fool who doesn't.



Considering your tone, I'll let you figure it out. Jim and the Red Team already have. But then again, that's why you're not running the company. Leave the business to the smart guys like Jim & Company and try focusing back on your "occupation" of "being human". lol. :w00t:

that's the point, they have not figured it out, if they had this would be on the market in full production as we speak. if you're lucky, when you 'surprise' the market with a product, you'll get a quarter maybe two before the competition can, will or choose to react.

the tone, like life is whatever you make of it. i choose to be as positive as i can be and help out as many people possible. if the truth doesn't match what you see in the mirror, than get a new mirror or accept the truth.

if you choose to take the tone in that manner, that is a reflection of your own self worth and view of the world. don't spout your negatively and bullshit my way, life is too wonderful to deal with people like you.

wow, you are really the unelightened and uninspiring, blind, leading the blind.

i'm also surprised that you know how to use a latin dictionary, see learn something new every day. :)

[Jannard]

galexander... it looks to me like you are just enough informed to be dangerous and just enough uninformed to to cause trouble. What is your point? I'm missing it.

Jim

[Remy Carter]

The point is that Red has created a camera that is truly modular. You upgrade as needed... better sensor, you install it... better data transfer from chip to media, upgrade it. Seems pretty clear to me that Jim and company have a better understanding of their customer base than most companies in business. That's how they beat the competition with ingenuity.

[mdo]

if you choose to take the tone in that manner, that is a reflection of your own self worth and view of the world. don't spout your negatively and bullshit my way, life is too wonderful to deal with people like you.

Sounds like galexander is due for some mirror time.

[Jarred Land]

Sounds like galexander is due for some mirror time.

priceless post... :)

[Jason Ing]

Well, I guess this is partly my fault. I didn't follow my motto. :sad:

I guess I'll just have to put it in my signature. :unsure:

Now I won't forget it next time galexander attempts to think. :usd:

[Finner]

Well, I guess this is partly my fault. I didn't follow my motto. :sad:

I guess I'll just have to put it in my signature. :unsure:

Now I won't forget it next time galexander attempts to think. :usd:

Sure you can take that approach jing or you can tell the person to go F#CK THEMSELF.

Sure the latter option is the low road but I find it much more fun.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

priceless post... :)

Jarred don't you feel you should be rising above a conflict of this nature and not encouraging it?

[planet e]

IMHO suggest do whatever it takes, break some balls, call in some production or software "gunslingers" and get to market now before they have a chance to react. They big boys are slow, but they have deep pockets with lots of hard-core, technical R&D and production man hours they can throw at a project in a short amount of time. Small companies can maybe throw 400 to 600 man hours a week at a project, they can throw thousands of man hours with full up fab and machine shops in a week.

I think that galexander's point was that the technological lead that RED currently holds can be shut down quickly by the bigger fish, if they decide to get serious and throw all their resources at the problem. But I think the point got lost in the scuffle to see who was the biggest smartypants/wiseacre in the room.

Point taken, galexander, but I just don't see them moving quite as fast as you claim they can. They weren't exactly speedy ushering the EX-1 out the door, and it re-packages existing technology...not much actual innovation there, just a grudging admission that the sub-$10K market demanded more than they previously were willing to offer. The time-to-market was pretty unimpressive, and they are still back-ordered and not able to fill current orders on demand. Taking the EX-1 as a model of their willingness/ability to react to the demands of the marketplace (did someone say, cough cough Blu-Ray, cough...), I'd say RED is positioned quite well....

I believe that you're over-estimating the speed at which your can turn the Titanic, and they're about to hit the big RED iceberg at the bow...

But if you're right, and I'm wrong, I'd love to see Sony match the RED features at the RED price point! That'd be awesome. I might even buy one. As long as it inter-cut nicely with my pair of REDs.

(...anyone see those pigs flying? is the moon blue tonight?...)

[Jason Ing]

Hmmm, let's see here... it's just me talking to myself... doing a little musing here... :innocent:

Considering I don't know the usefulness of an MTF (MarvouslyTightFemale?), how to make an array get off from images, and how many DN's does it take to screw a lightbulb in the dark, I'll have to keep this very, very basic so I can understand myself. I'm not a billionaire businessman, you know.

If Company R makes a quality product and yet still sells it at a "low" price and then Company B makes a similar product (which may or may not be similar in quality) and sells it higher... who sells the most?

No wait, that's not fair. Company B makes a similar product, maybe even in quality, and then sells it at best, an equal price?! :sarcasm: Anyway, a closed gap, similar technologies, and it's David vs Goliath. Now what?! :unsure:

Well, I don't have an answer.

I know! Google will save me! Let's see, key words: Company R, phenomenal customer service, innovation, intelligence, business savvy, dedication, heart, morals, character... (I can't believe those words are put together... oxymoron?)...

Search Result: Jim Jannard & the Red Team.

Oh... I think my lightbulb blinked on... must be that dark current... if an intelligent, good-hearted businessman offers me a high quality, affordable, upgradeable product that allows me to potentially achieve a dream (first) and then a bunch of greedy corporate suited big gorillas copy him just to try and take more money... well...

...I can only speak personally, but Jim has one damn loyal customer (who wants his camera now! Well, okay, a little later since I'm #1582... which I would have put in my reservation earlier for that credit, but I'm just a poor working slob! :construction:).

Business 101.

It's about the customers.

[mezmo]

I mean come on guys.
give galexander a break,
there is a tendency to break out the
fanboys by Jim and others whenever problems loom Red wise.
I love the fan boys, I love the blind faith, the total lack of concern
when anything major goes wrong, they have a positive post for every
dire situation and they gunna change the world. You dont see that a lot
these days, only on reduser.net. I visit on a regular basis, I love it.
But I have to agree with the Galex, Red could disappear up it's own butt
in a puff of smoke if shit's not sorted now.
The company has to concentrate on producing the best possible camera it
can, f**k the giant slaying. get this thing working like a clock, the Nattress software is amazing, and free for the most part. You want to know what
Sony think, they think Red's just a pimped up DSLR and a bit of a joke,
the software and concept on the other hand has them a little concerned, like others in the industry.
This is a very important time for Red.
Mezmo

[number6]

the man who painted the silver screen red.


... i wouldve made up a more emotional and sexy story if there was adobe support.. looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool. hahaha..

Just stopped in on REDuser.net for a quick cuppa tea, but these two quotes were so funny, I just had to sign in and comment. Great lines, Akube!

[Mufu Giwa]

You have no idea Mr Jannard how much people believe and cherrished your great accomplishment, please keep it going, we support you.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

I'm a self-declared fanboi... yeah... I'm lost :bleh:.

[mdo]

I mean come on guys.
give galexander a break,
there is a tendency to break out the
fanboys by Jim and others whenever problems loom Red wise.
I love the fan boys, I love the blind faith, the total lack of concern
when anything major goes wrong, they have a positive post for every
dire situation and they gunna change the world. You dont see that a lot
thes days, only on reduser.net. I visit on a regular basis, I love it.
But i have to agree with the Galex, Red could disappear up it's own butt
in a puff of smoke if shit's not sorted now.
The company has to concentrate on producing the best possible camera it
can, f**k the giant slaying. get this thing working like a clock, the Nattress software is amazing, and free for the most part. You want to know what
Sony think, they think Red's just a pimped up DSLR and a bit of a joke,
the software and concept on the other has has them a little concerned, like others in the industry.
This is a very important time for Red.
Mezmo

I think the issue is taking a constructive approach to things. There will always be friction between those who are getting things done and those who focus more on the factors that threaten success. Now and then on this site we get posts that are loaded up with frantic, breathless fear. The problem with that is that fear is contagious. We're all well aware of the marketing tool known as FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt), and it's a powerful tool despite the fact that it's not particularly constructive.

If FUD remains unanswered, it sits there, doing its work.

This site works very well in getting issues discussed and addressed in an orderly way. But when someone comes in with a fear-based posting that highlights the resources arrayed against Red, I don't think it's inappropriate for someone to step in to place that posting into the proper context, as Jing, Planet E and others have in this thread.

I would be surprised to find that there is anyone on this site who is not seriously concerned when something major shows up as a problem. I think what you're seeing is that those problems are being understood within their context without the need for external reassurance.

You're definitely right about this being a very important time for Red. Even at the best of times, birth is a dangerous process.

[Jason Ing]

With all silliness and joking aside, the bottom line for me is that Red has built a great camera and sells it at a great price, continues to improve the quality at a break neck speed, and fixes "flaws" even faster.

Unlike the rabbit and turtle, I'm absolutely positive that this red rabbit is not resting on its rump this time.

[Lauri Kettunen]

Jim, Since "everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..." have you seriously thought about not only delaying the delivery dates but also about speeding up the pace?

I mean, once the camera is designed to a satisfactory level, the question is of mass production. And if you feel your design department can do miracles, could the same apply to the production dept? Have you really put your mind on this? After all, manufacturing a few thousand cameras should not be that big deal. Of course, the additional cost of speeding up the process may not be tolerable, but it would be nice to know whether you've thought about this seriously.

Summing up, if everything may change, especially the delivery dates, any chance that meant in both directions?

[Jason Ing]

And I may be picking the silliest example of many examples of "customer support and service", but the fact that it's so silly may be representative of Red's obsessive dedication to customer satisfaction. In what company/corporation do you find the owner/founder lurking a forum and then responding that he'll fix the FONT on the camera display because his customers don't like it?! WTF? The font!?!?

[KETCH ROSSi]

Randomfactor, Joon and Elizabeth, your comments are much appreciated.

I'm a little guy with truly BIG Dreams so I tend to do business with the Big guys just as well as with the little ones, RED Digital Cinema it is a little one as far as it is of very young age but little is not by far, as its achievments are so far remarkable and well observed by a Global media.

I have found that, yes some do take it still as a will see, kind of attitude, but many are already not only realizing and understanding what RED has achieved but are quickly jumping on the Unprecedented RED wagon Fenomena and trying to provide services and third party gear for sale to the thousands of very soon to be RED owners.

Again the way Jim decided to have an OPen Door Policy and his direct intervention and Participation in this forum is also unprecedented in this industry, incredibly welcomed by literally thousands of as, especially those like myself that have big dreams, tone of passion and little knowledge about many things, so this forum and Fantastic Community that RED has created, brings answers in a way that some times not even Books or Filmschool can.

But most importantly brings a enormous sense of family, friendship and will to Help one an other.

Again my most sincere congratulation to Jim and the entire RED team for their dedication and achievements but mostly I continue to be mesmerized by the way Jim finds time to be a part of this forum with genuine and down to earth relation with other users, I know of no other business man of Jim's stature that does anything remotly close to it.

I'm the kind of person that even so I'm on borrow time(literally) I always see the glass half full, I can understand if not all see it the same way, but what I do not understand is why some people have to come in to this forum and bring negativity to a product, a company and community that is doing nothing but minding their own business and taking action to fulfill their dreams.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

And I may be picking the silliest example of many examples of "customer support and service", but the fact that it's so silly may be representative of Red's obsessive dedication to customer satisfaction. In what company/corporation do you find the owner/founder lurking a forum and then responding that he'll fix the FONT on the camera display because his customers don't like it?! WTF? The font!?!?

Yeah, that font issue has always made me laugh.

[Jason Ing]

I'm curious. We all hear stories of even the big boys having production and delivery schedule problems, delays, etc. Of course, it's on a larger scale of hundreds of thousands of units, but the basics still apply, right? What are the real life business factors of speeding up production from a "small" company?

There's obviously cost. And I would imagine that Red is in the red right now. Jim is wealthy, but is he a Bill Gates? If a limit has been reached and increasing the speed of production uses up funds that would go to research and development, I'd rather wait. Because that would spell trouble. I want Red to succeed in the long run and not necessarily slay the giant but become a giant (for selfish reasons too). And keeping ahead of the pack in a technologically tight race (as galexander points out) or at least at the forefront, is of utmost importance. Because when products are similar in quality and price, whether it's a burger, electronic device, etc., customers will go to the company that they feel they will ALSO be taken care of the best. I remember buying a Dell way back when (at a time when it wasn't a giant and there were lots of choices) because I "heard" of its great customer service. And I like Apple because of its design and quality (price has been so so). But now that it's dual boot, guess what? I've got a quad mac and dell dual quad in my living room. Quality, branding, and customer loyalty works. I remember when I got my first slr camera in highschool, a Canon AE1, and while I acknowledge their are other camera brands of equal quality, I just bought a Canon 40D.

Again, I'm no businessman, but it seems to me Jim knows what he's doing. And yet he's smart enough to be humble and listen to all the senseless chatter for those few great insights and tips from customers in the know.

Fine, some people like to quarterback from their keyboard. I'm thankful that it's Jim who's in the driver's seat.

[Shawn Bannon]

Haven't been hearing a lot from the top. Does this mean they are changing more than the lens mount lubricant?

Honestly. lets get these cameras out there. At this point I rather pay to upgrade the camera later. There is so much amazing work to be done with the camera in its current state.

[Stephen Williams]

There's obviously cost. And I would imagine that Red is in the red right now. Jim is wealthy, but is he a Bill Gates?

Hi,

I would imagine that Jim will be in profit and have a positive cash flow before camera 1000 is delivered, that will probably be February / March 2008.

Edit Remember money is made on accessories as well such as the $500 Compact Flash Unit.

Stephen

[Vladimir Eugene]

Hi,

I would imagine that Jim will be in profit and have a positive cash flow before camera 1000 is delivered, that will probably be February / March 2008.

Stephen

I agree with you. It seems like that was the original goal. I remember 1000 R's for the first adapters. But, since the expansion- Scarlet, Lenses, upgrades, monitors, my guess is more like 2000

Vladimir Eugene

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I wouldn't worry about scarlet R&D costs, especially if they're reusing the basic tech. If anything it's going to push the REDOne project into the black.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

I'll be happy to see Red succeed financially, cause they'll make a better example for making business.

But they should beware, cause becoming a "big boy" could be risky.

The Romans fell because they killed everyone else, almost by mistake. They became too big and powerful and that was the beginning of their end... and then we came... :)

[leojS]

There's obviously cost. And I would imagine that Red is in the red right now. Jim is wealthy, but is he a Bill Gates?

From Wikipedia:
"He [Jim] was placed by Forbes Magazine at number 239 on the Forbes 400 in 2007 with a net worth of $2 billion."

Good 'ole wikipedia :biggrin: !!

Seriously, I wouldn't worry about RED slowing down production because of lack of funds... For one thing they've already got reservations for over 4,000 cameras plus probably accessories. Also I'm pretty sure they have people investing in their company - their money's not all coming from Jim... at least I don't think :meh:.

Anyway guys, just be patient!!

[vincelucero]

Callled yesterday and they said they had to unpack the cams, take 'em apart, fix, test and are in the process of repack. They'll let me know when it ships. I'm kinda bummed. I've tried my best to be the "patient" and loyal customer. I admire Jim and the company as trailblazers in this business and understand the pressures involved.

But now we really have to get to work and having this camera will be crucial. So here's to getting some grease on this squeeky wheel:

My Red is paid in full and I still don't have it. I want my Red #138 now.

Waiting sucks. Especially when you have such a low number and see others with photos of their cameras on the coffee table...

Thanks to Sean, Brent and the gang for keeping me updated and pushing along. Hope you guys enjoy the Hawaiian red leis and coffee.

[ChrisLyon]

leap of faith..??? wtf? there's no deity involved.
Wow. That was taking it way to literally there, g. Everyone knows the Red isn't going to explode onto the Hollywood scene overnight. Haha. Jim said it wasn't finished which is one of many logical reason as to why it hasn't been adopted. The camera is kick ass, no doubt, but there is a long way to go. Let people revel in the product they have sunk so much hope into. I don't see why you feel like you have to try to dish out a reality check.

[Jason Ing]

Forbes?! 2 billion! In that case, where's my red one? :)\

[Jason Ing]

My Red is paid in full and I still don't have it. I want my Red #138 now.

Waiting sucks. Especially when you have such a low number and see others with photos of their cameras on the coffee table...



Having a number that low must be excruciatingly painful. :huh:

Watching the clock...

... tick... tick... tick... tick... tick...

Something to look forward too myself around March or April, I guess. :unsure:

[Michael Hastings]

Hi,

I would imagine that Jim will be in profit and have a positive cash flow before camera 1000 is delivered, that will probably be February / March 2008.

Edit Remember money is made on accessories as well such as the $500 Compact Flash Unit.

Stephen

I suspect you are right Stephen - here's my thumbnail analysis.

300 cameras at $25000 average per sale (may be higher) = $7.5 million sales

a) 1 to 2.5 million for 1st 1000 Mysteriums

b) 1 million in rent/utilities/etc.

c) ~2 million in salaries for Jan 2005 - Jan 2007

d) 1.625 million ~$5000 per camera direct cost for camera (not inc. sensor) 325 includes city name cameras x$5000 =

e) $ 900,000 $3000 x 300 cost ($7500x300=gross) for the lower margin accessories batteries/lenses, etc. sold with the cameras to make the average $25K sale.


2.5 mil mysterium
1 mil rent
2 mil salaries
1.625 cams
.9 mil acc.
-------------
$8.025 million total cash flow of project and 700 more mysteriums paid for.

Obviously doesn't count whatever the owner pays himself.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I suspect you are right Stephen - here's my thumbnail analysis.

300 cameras at $25000 average per sale (may be higher) = $7.5 million sales

a) 1 to 2.5 million for 1st 1000 Mysteriums

b) 1 million in rent/utilities/etc.

c) ~2 million in salaries for Jan 2005 - Jan 2007

d) 1.625 million ~$5000 per camera direct cost for camera (not inc. sensor) 325 includes city name cameras x$5000 =

e) $ 900,000 $3000 x 300 cost ($7500x300=gross) for the lower margin accessories batteries/lenses, etc. sold with the cameras to make the average $25K sale.


2.5 mil mysterium
1 mil rent
2 mil salaries
1.625 cams
.9 mil acc.
-------------
$8.025 million total cash flow of project and 700 more mysteriums paid for.

Obviously doesn't count whatever the owner pays himself.

Wow.. I WISH it was this cheap. What about all the lawyers Jim uses to scare the people that do things he doesn't like!!!

Trust me.. They are out there! :)

A company like this, in this industry would have a very active legal team, for a number of reasons, some good, some bad. :(

Jay

[Michael Hastings]

Wow.. I WISH it was this cheap. What about all the lawyers Jim uses to scare the people that do things he doesn't like!!!

Trust me.. They are out there! :)

A company like this, in this industry would have a very active legal team, for a number of reasons, some good, some bad. :(

Jay

You may be right so add another 5 million for lawyers and it will be another month or do as Dick the butcher said: "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

[Jannard]

I suspect you are right Stephen - here's my thumbnail analysis.

300 cameras at $25000 average per sale (may be higher) = $7.5 million sales

a) 1 to 2.5 million for 1st 1000 Mysteriums

b) 1 million in rent/utilities/etc.

c) ~2 million in salaries for Jan 2005 - Jan 2007

d) 1.625 million ~$5000 per camera direct cost for camera (not inc. sensor) 325 includes city name cameras x$5000 =

e) $ 900,000 $3000 x 300 cost ($7500x300=gross) for the lower margin accessories batteries/lenses, etc. sold with the cameras to make the average $25K sale.


2.5 mil mysterium
1 mil rent
2 mil salaries
1.625 cams
.9 mil acc.
-------------
$8.025 million total cash flow of project and 700 more mysteriums paid for.

Obviously doesn't count whatever the owner pays himself.

Don't you guys have something to go shoot?

Jim

[albert rudnicki]

Don't you guys have something to go shoot?

Jim

DITTO :bleh:

[I Bloom]

Don't you guys have something to go shoot?

Jim

We are still in the first three weeks of January, Jim plus the writers are on strike. IMHO lots of people have cabin fever.:blink:

[GrafxLvr]

Don't you guys have something to go shoot?Jim

Bravo...! Well Said...

http://greenteainteractive.com/RED/cKane.gif

Yes... yes... but only in jest...!

[Jarred Land]

Bravo...! Well Said...

http://greenteainteractive.com/RED/cKane.gif

Yes... yes... but only in jest...!

this graphic is brilliant.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Don't you guys have something to go shoot?

Jim

Can't.... You have my camera.

:)

Jay

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

You (Jim, Red& co) has mine too, It´s probably sitting on a shelf with it´s brothers and sisters thinking... doesn´t someone out there have a home for me? What am I doing here on a weekend!?

I have room in my mailbox this coming week, for the long awaited "your camera is ready to ship" mail.... so get it out!

[number6]

All the work that is going into #557 to get her into my hands so I can learn it inside and out is also very appreciated.



Andrew, I didn't know you could order by gender. Why don't you get a RED with gonads and shoot some sheyit?:)

[Jay A. Kelley]

I would like to say to everyone on this forum that GAlexandar has been one of the most knowlegeable and helpful posters I have had the pleasure of meeting since being here.

His advice and consultation has been directly responsible for helping me fix REDCine more than it currently is, at a time where there were very few answers being provided, and he saved me THOUSANDS of dollars by prompting me to build my own computer rather than buy "off the shelf". The system is working wonderfully, and the education has opened my eyes in a number of ways.

Jim was concerned he might know enough to cause trouble. In fact Jim, he knows enough to help, a lot.

I predict in the near future, as smart people like GA and others get a hold of RED and it's software, they will take it in directions none of us, including RED have planned.

One can only hope, as these developments bring more choices to us, the consumers, that RED will be SUPPORTIVE of these initiaves rather than try to control or remove them. While I am confident that RED will get the ball rolling, it will be the third party developers who will make this thing shine. As long as RED creates an atmosphere of trust and support for those people, we will all benefit, but if they get a reputation for being controlling or cruel to those who may try to add to RED's product line, then it will be the beginning of the end, one may even go as far as to call them a "little Sony" in that case. I can only hope and pray this will never be the case.

I am grateful for GAlexandar's help, and I look forward to reading more of his posts and advice in the future.

Jay A. Kelley

[number6]

I think he's just a frickin' genius who knows so much that he has no one to talk to. So, he tries to push the buttons to see if anyone on REDuser.net has the same level of knowledge to challenge him. It ain't easy bein' a genius.

Well, it was for me... all I had to do was buy a camera, and voila! I'm a genius!

[Jay A. Kelley]

I think he's just a frickin' genius who knows so much that he has no one to talk to. So, he tries to push the buttons to see if anyone on REDuser.net has the same level of knowledge to challenge him. It ain't easy bein' a genius.

Well, it was for me... all I had to do was buy a camera, and voila! I'm a genius!

Oh god...:wacko:

Jay

:)

[vincelucero]

Having a number that low must be excruciatingly painful. :huh:

Watching the clock...

... tick... tick... tick... tick... tick...

Something to look forward too myself around March or April, I guess. :unsure:

You have no idea. Before I got word that it wasn't shipping, I was jumping for a look out my window each time a big truck came by.

[reality]

Genius or not, his lack of tact and politeness turns any genius into an idiot.

[Roberto B]

but i DO know the answer too bad you don't.... not even google can save you now. when you can explain what an MTF curve is, why it's useful, what does the timing looking like to get an image off the array, the physics behind it, what is the latency involved with the shift and add process? why do you want to add then shift? or shift then add? how many DN's are there in the dark current? ... then your otherwise useless, acinine and truly laughable comments might be taken as something more than a joke. i can answer all of these questions.



you have no clue at all? how has Red been successful at this point? profit? don't see that? in what manner whatsoever, has this venture been profitable by ANY benchmark. if you ask the boss, he would probably tell you that as of right now, it has NOT. he would probably say it has been a long, hard, bone shattering road. i get the impression it is NOT done for money.

you spout nothing but metaphors and ennuendos that are nothing more than meaningless dribble, while very entertaining and funny as hell. you've missed the point entirely. there is nothing wrong with admitting your ignorant of something. it's the fool who doesn't.



that's the point, they have not figured it out, if they had this would be on the market in full production as we speak. if you're lucky, when you 'surprise' the market with a product, you'll get a quarter maybe two before the competition can, will or choose to react.

the tone, like life is whatever you make of it. i choose to be as positive as i can be and help out as many people possible. if the truth doesn't match what you see in the mirror, than get a new mirror or accept the truth.

if you choose to take the tone in that manner, that is a reflection of your own self worth and view of the world. don't spout your negatively and bullshit my way, life is too wonderful to deal with people like you.

wow, you are really the unelightened and uninspiring, blind, leading the blind.

i'm also surprised that you know how to use a latin dictionary, see learn something new every day. :)

well well.. who's he?.. jim murdoch.. keith walters.. what are you doing here?.. on jarREDuser land?.. what a surprise! :)

[Michael Stanmore]

I'm going to show how I feel about all this by making movies when my camera arrives. Until then...

[mdo]

I would like to say to everyone on this forum that GAlexandar has been one of the most knowlegeable and helpful posters I have had the pleasure of meeting since being here.

His advice and consultation has been directly responsible for helping me fix REDCine more than it currently is, at a time where there were very few answers being provided, and he saved me THOUSANDS of dollars by prompting me to build my own computer rather than buy "off the shelf". The system is working wonderfully, and the education has opened my eyes in a number of ways.

Excellent recommendation. Thanks for sharing it.

[Thor Wixom]

Don't you guys have something to go shoot?

Jim

Yeah, ariel shots of Mt. Timpanogos on Monday... when my camera arrives!

-Thor

[Jared VanLeuven]

*unabashed jealousy* :)


Yeah, ariel shots of Mt. Timpanogos on Monday... when my camera arrives!

-Thor

[Steve Sherrick]

Last few days I've been getting schooled in future marketing strategies. Let's just say that Red's success is built upon one of these very powerful marketing strategies. The days of traditional marketing vehicles are going by the wayside quickly. You need to build communities around your products. You have to know why people love that product and you have to get their word of mouth, their allegience to that product so that they get on blogs, forums, etc and truly embrace the product. Case in point, look at what Red has done here at Reduser. Jim's interaction on here makes people feel part of the process. You are invested in the project, whether you have put down money or are just someone who really likes the camera.

So, it's not only about Sony coming out with a 4K camera, it's about what Sony is willing to do to build a passionate community around that camera. If they are going to offer a 4K camera that is more expensive than Red, they will have to make sure those commuities are in place that justify the additional cost by first hand user accounts of why that camera beats Red feature for feature, as well as an even more philosophical reasoning. They will need some passionate people, like we see here on this site. In some ways, Sony does have an allegience from a lot of professional shooters out there, and they will have to build on that with a more personal approach.

So, the camera is not where Red had hoped. Jim, that's very honest of you and I certainly appreciate that you guys are busting your asses trying to solve these issues. I suppose in any business there is a resource limit (we can all relate to that) but in your honest assessment Jim, is this a resource issue or are there some things that have just turned out to be completely unexpected issues, that at the moment, no one can solve? In other words, if there was someone who could walk in to your office tomorrow and say they have the answers to all of the issues you are having and that at the end of the day you will have as close to a perfect camera as you have imagined it, would it get done? Or is this a scenario where you have to walk that fine line between throwing money at the problem or using available resources to figure these things out?

Hope this thread stays on topic because I am curious about Jim's perspective on this. I suspect there's a lot that can be learned from what they are going through to do the impossible and do it in such a short amount of time. Keep it coming Jim, addressing the issues honestly like you are doing and then following through with innovative solutions will in my opinion make the success even sweeter for you guys in the end because you'll know you had to walk down a treacherous path and you still came out alive.

Steve

[Jannard]

Last few days I've been getting schooled in future marketing strategies. Let's just say that Red's success is built upon one of these very powerful marketing strategies. The days of traditional marketing vehicles are going by the wayside quickly. You need to build communities around your products. You have to know why people love that product and you have to get their word of mouth, their allegience to that product so that they get on blogs, forums, etc and truly embrace the product. Case in point, look at what Red has done here at Reduser. Jim's interaction on here makes people feel part of the process. You are invested in the project, whether you have put down money or are just someone who really likes the camera.

So, it's not only about Sony coming out with a 4K camera, it's about what Sony is willing to do to build a passionate community around that camera. If they are going to offer a 4K camera that is more expensive than Red, they will have to make sure those commuities are in place that justify the additional cost by first hand user accounts of why that camera beats Red feature for feature, as well as an even more philosophical reasoning. They will need some passionate people, like we see here on this site. In some ways, Sony does have an allegience from a lot of professional shooters out there, and they will have to build on that with a more personal approach.

So, the camera is not where Red had hoped. Jim, that's very honest of you and I certainly appreciate that you guys are busting your asses trying to solve these issues. I suppose in any business there is a resource limit (we can all relate to that) but in your honest assessment Jim, is this a resource issue or are there some things that have just turned out to be completely unexpected issues, that at the moment, no one can solve? In other words, if there was someone who could walk in to your office tomorrow and say they have the answers to all of the issues you are having and that at the end of the day you will have as close to a perfect camera as you have imagined it, would it get done? Or is this a scenario where you have to walk that fine line between throwing money at the problem or using available resources to figure these things out?

Hope this thread stays on topic because I am curious about Jim's perspective on this. I suspect there's a lot that can be learned from what they are going through to do the impossible and do it in such a short amount of time. Keep it coming Jim, addressing the issues honestly like you are doing and then following through with innovative solutions will in my opinion make the success even sweeter for you guys in the end because you'll know you had to walk down a treacherous path and you still came out alive.

Steve

The only adversary we have is time... it is not resources. There are a million things to do to get this right. And two years is just not enough. Particularly since we have raised the bar along the way. If you just look at where we have come since the 1st camera was shipped, it speaks volumes to the complexity of the program and our willingness to knock down the problems. I think we are pretty close. Every firmware upgrade enables features, becomes more stable and the images you can record to Compact Flash were never dreamed of by those that put down $1000 21 months ago.

There is no question that we will solve any remaining issues. It is just a matter of time.

Jim

[JFirestone]

This camera does have some issues that need to be resolved. I knew that coming into this, and didn't expect it to be perfect on release. I'm just thrilled to have the chance to start shooting with it. Over the last 12 days we've put our camera through a lot of testing, and have tested virtually every feature from strobes and skew to noise in the blue channel, and all the audio and monitoring issues. I am thrilled with this camera. It produces great images. Sure there are some things I hope will be fixed soon, especially regarding multiple monitor options. And you'll likely see a lot of posts about issues that I am having, both with the camera and the post workflow. But I am very happy with the camera and I look forward to the improvements that are made. This is part of being an early adopter. I'm just glad to be part of the process, and if I can provide useful feedback, I will.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

There are a million things to do to get this right.
There is no question that we will solve any remaining issues. It is just a matter of time.

Jim

I think this is the answer of all our demands:whistling:

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

the Audio is still an issue huh.. Please tell me I have it wrong.. I would love to eat humble pie on that one :-) The audio is real deal breaker for me.. honestly Jim.. I really need clean quiet audio recorded to the camera by a shotgun mic attached to the camera. It's how I make documentaries.. If I couldn't make that work, I don't know how I could use the camera..

[zak forrest]

=]

(had my first REAL red experience tonight, just got back... everyone was completely blown away at how easy and fun it was to do everything we wanted to do. 4K footage in my pocket and fists. all time best. so much fun. never in my wildest dreams..

[Steve Sherrick]

The only adversary we have is time... it is not resources.
Good to know.


There are a million things to do to get this right. And two years is just not enough. Particularly since we have raised the bar along the way.
But are you guys in search of the Holy Grail? Personally, I'd be happy knowing you guys are always working to improve the camera, as that would mean the Red One would keep evolving, and I could get more and more out of it. But at some point I'll need to get it in my hands, so the courageous quest you guys are on needs to reach the point where the camera is good enough for delivery (all QC issues worked out) with the caveat being that there will be improvements. even after we get the camera. Seems like you guys are getting to that point.


If you just look at where we have come since the 1st camera was shipped, it speaks volumes to the complexity of the program and our willingness to knock down the problems. I think we are pretty close. Every firmware upgrade enables features, becomes more stable and the images you can record to Compact Flash were never dreamed of by those that put down $1000 21 months ago.

I can honestly say I never expected Compact Flash to be able to record 4K. With some of the remaining issues, sometimes it gets lost what you guys have actually accomplished. You've adapted to the market and implemented changes and redesigns quicker than most companies as far as I can tell.


There is no question that we will solve any remaining issues. It is just a matter of time.
Time is rarely our best friend. It pushes us, it runs out on us, and we can never get it back. But it also gives us great hope, as there's always more of it.

You guys will get there Jim.

[Jannard]

Good to know.


But are you guys in search of the Holy Grail? Personally, I'd be happy knowing you guys are always working to improve the camera, as that would mean the Red One would keep evolving, and I could get more and more out of it. But at some point I'll need to get it in my hands, so the courageous quest you guys are on needs to reach the point where the camera is good enough for delivery (all QC issues worked out) with the caveat being that there will be improvements. even after we get the camera. Seems like you guys are getting to that point.


Read Zak's post above yours. We are there. But we aren't done. Almost an oxymoron. :-)

Jim

[Steve Sherrick]

Jim,

I knew you guys were there when Gibby was using the camera on high end projects. I knew you were there when Soderberg adopted the camera as his go to for everything he's doing moving forward, and I knew you were there when you said you were happy with shooting with the camera. "There" being a relative term. I'm convinced I'd be happy with the camera as it stands right now. I could get things done with it and feel comfortable renting it out knowing the limitations that exist at the moment and properly informing the clients of those limitations. What comes after that is icing on the cake, a journey onto itself of making the camera more and more powerful to the point where 10 builds down you feel like you just got a new camera. That's where I'm going with this. I'd be happy with it now based on what I've read about from the current owners, despite the occasional flaws. And that's because I believe in the committment you have to making it better.

Steve

[dudeman]

Thanks! That's great!

____________________
402 01 (http://phone-lookup.cg180.net/areacode/402-01) 402 02 (http://phone-lookup.cg180.net/areacode/402-02)
402 03 (http://phone-lookup.cg180.net/areacode/402-03) 402 04 (http://phone-lookup.cg180.net/areacode/402-04)
402 05 (http://phone-lookup.cg180.net/areacode/402-05) phone-lookups (http://phone-lookup.cg180.net)

Sorry to interrupt but this guy is a spammer--check out it's history and various sigs.

Thanks mods... :construction:

[Jeff Coatney]

Nothing a pitcher of beer and a lap dance or two won't cure.

[douger2007]

Long time listener first time caller.

This post about being 'brave' is nonsense. Real people who work on real productions dont want brave. they want people who can light, actors who can act and cameras that work. you can be brave if you are filming your bedroom wall at home but not such a good idea when working on a proper production where a camera is but one element, an element that should work 100%.

I have no doubt you guys will make it right some day, I just wonder will Sony etc get it right before you get a chance to? they have been doing this longer than two years? people trust them...

also sony dont post such ramblings which I have to say dont instil confidence.

peace out

[Cal Brunker]

"Sony doesn't post ramblings..."

Sony doesn't really post anything. They never open the door to us, or keep potential users in the loop of what's coming up.

RED could put up a front and inspire us with confidence, whether or not it was real, but then they would be like everyone else.

I find this whole journey incredibly exciting, and I check these boards daily. It takes a tremendous amount of courage for RED to air their dirty laundry here, and let us witness both their struggles and successes.

Like many of the people on this board, I'm not quite ready to take the plunge, as RED is still obviously working out some bugs. Luckily my producer is, and his first two RED's are currently in transit.

Before I buy my own I'll test the heck out of the thing, and be sure it's performing at a level that I deem acceptable.

We've all got a tolerance for different levels or risk, the camera is clearly at the "bleeding edge" of tech right now, and those that can afford to adjust to the cameras CURRENT short comings, will reap the benefits.

There's no question that the camera will reach your level of tolerance at some point, but until then, enjoy the journey. The camera these guys are building is MANY times better than anything that has been built before, at anywhere close to the price range.

Now back to enjoying the development of RED

[Paolo Tinari]

This post about being 'brave' is nonsense.



Being brave is not nonsense in this case, is an option.
It's nice to have options.

[Obin Olson]

"also sony dont post such ramblings which I have to say dont instil confidence."

Um, your missing the whole point here buddy......

This is a new way...

[Steve Sherrick]

Like I said, Sony is going to need to adapt to a new way of marketing. The guys I just hung out with the past few days know their stuff about the way corporations are shifting their marketing strategies and I feel Red is more positioned to take advantage of these techniques then Sony is. Just ask Avid. They are going through the same thing. It's all about reaching out to your customers on a more personal level. You won't see Avid on the NAB floor this year. They are going to be meeting with clients one on one. Red may be evolving, but they are also highly successful with getting word of mouth out there.

Steve

[David Dennis]

From my viewpoint, Jim's ramblings DO inspire confidence, because we know he cares about us and our cameras more than making a buck. Sony wants to make a buck, Jim wants to make the greatest camera in the world. I think a lot of us really love him for that.

D

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

And he might make a bigger buck this way.

Instead of just "wanting to make a buck".

[Christian Edwards]

4. Meeting schedules. We are not meeting schedules as well as we would like. While we are doing the best we can, and have begun shipping again... we are behind. It is frustrating. I understand. You should complain. If it was my money, I would be be impatient. Keep posting that you want your camera NOW!


Jim

Jim ,

I would rather you get it right , don't feel pressured by demand ...two years ago this concept would not have even been conceivable, you deserve the patients of your customers...if they didn't feel comfortable waiting they needn't buy in to the program in the first place! id like to draw you attention to a rather poignant commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBRmN6J6ehg

[full moon]

I understand that you guys started from scratch but it would be helpful to us that are considering RED to know when you expect the platform to be stable. I'm interested to place an order. Am I safe in assuming that everything will be out of beta by the time I receive a camera if I placed an order today? Some people are willing to live with development. I am not. I have a Sony 900 and all the kinks are worked out. I really want a full frame sensor and the RED seems perfect but I don't want the hassle of daily firmware updates and the fear of breakdowns.

[Enelio Farina]

The most important thing NOW is the technology change that RED is giving to the film´s industry. Here in spain we are waiting nicely with an strong support to all of you guys!!!!! remember this:

¨The man who can´t visualise a horse galloping on a tomato is an idiot.¨

Enelio Farina

[Pig]

Full Moon: if you order now, your cam will be shipped sometime towards the end of the year (my prediction, not anyone else's), and will be number 4000+.
The 'kinks' will be WELL sorted out by then.

[thornben]

I have used the camera on two jobs now and as a director I intend on using it a LOT this year. I think we will shoot nearly all of our jobs on it this year. The price of the rental is fantastic and we get great service from Rocket Rentals here in Auckland. This is a great camera. It's like an Aaton, not an Arriflex - very ambitious and inventive, and designed for image makers not the techo's guild. The techo's guild job is to make the tool work, not complain about it. But they always complain about anything that is different. Yes there are problems but there are work-arounds. It isn't better than film, yes, but it is the only Digital moving-image camera that can function as a substitute. F900 looks crap, Varicam looks crap. The pictures from this camera can look brilliant and that is the bottom line. I respect Jannard's balls and dedication to do something good and make something from scratch and damn the costs and connsequences and trying hard to do something big.

[thornben]

I say the above not as an ignorant director, I am very very technical and pride myself on being so. I know the technology of image-capture very well.
I also do all of the R3D processing and post in-house. Fact is that the result is better than going to a post house - I have gone that route and they stuffed it up.

It's also not that hard to use - I have taken it on one evening just me and my DP and I pressed all the buttons. The menu system is easy to use. I don't understand why people complain so much - it is easy: if you don't like the camera, don't use it.

[Karl H]

I'm in the next batch of cameras to be shipped and I can safely say I'd rather have it right than have it earlier.

I dont want to be returning parts of the basic production kit because they are not up to scratch and I don't want it refitted in a month because something on the body has a design change, or they go with a new battery mount or CF holder. Red is a big investment for me and I simply couldnt afford to be updating for every small design correction. So please take your time and make sure what ships is as close as possible to the final Red One body and accessory kit.

From my point of view the workflow is still akward. I know some people think it's great but my background isn't at high end as that. For those working on 35mm, im sure Red seems revolutionary. For those of us using a HVX or digibeta, it's just not that easy yet. I hope it will be in a few months.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

i liked your point of view and agree with you ..but i think


as close as possible to the final Red One

.

it will not happen because RED IS revolution will never stope going better and better..

[Karl H]

I know things will evolve and I understand that. I'll clarify by saying I dont want a camera that needs 'fixing'. If things evolve down the line then that's expected. But if my camera has parts that wobble, or the battery connection is loose, or they change the design of the CF slot because its a bitch to eject.... I'd rather wait until all that was solid.

This is assumption on my part, but I would have thought most of the upgrades will come in software, I dont think we should be expected to be upgrading the hardware directly on the camera month after month. My hope is the hardware will be mostly finalised with the next batch of shipping cameras. After all if they keep redesigning the body it's going to cost them much more in R&D and manufacturing.

[Craig Bowman]

I know things will evolve and I understand that. I'll clarify by saying I dont want a camera that needs 'fixing'. If things evolve down the line then that's expected. But if my camera has parts that wobble, or the battery connection is loose, or they change the design of the CF slot because its a bitch to eject.... I'd rather wait until all that was solid.

This is assumption on my part, but I would have thought most of the upgrades will come in software, I dont think we should be expected to be upgrading the hardware directly on the camera month after month. My hope is the hardware will be mostly finalised with the next batch of shipping cameras. After all if they keep redesigning the body it's going to cost them much more in R&D and manufacturing.

I've never had a camera yet that was perfect the way you say. The difference with other companies is they put out a new model and then you must pay for a brand new camera. Even the simple little DVX went through three incarnations to fix all kinds of design issues and they still didn't get it perfect.

[Karl H]

True Craig, but I kept the original DVX and used it for years ;there was nothing wrong with it, it was a production worthy camera. By that I mean the upgrades were enhancements, not fixes.

If my Red camera arrives with handles that slip, battery mounts that dont grip or a camera that didnt operate at 0c then thats not really acceptable as a production model.

Red have fixed most problems so far and are continuing to do so. What Im saying is dont ship until all these things are fixed.

Going back to the DVX, they released the B version maybe a year or more later; the reason the Red Camera is changing in hardware week to week is because it's still coming out of beta.

[Cail Young]

True Craig, but I kept the original DVX and used it for years ;there was nothing wrong with it, it was a production worthy camera. By that I mean the upgrades were enhancements, not fixes.

The original DVX would record audio a frame early. I dare say that should have been a show-stopper bug.

[NZ1]

OK. We are guilty. The RED ONE is not perfect. We are struggling with lots of things. And the "we are only in this two years" only goes so far. We can't use that excuse anymore. Don't buy it.

Here are just some of the reasons NOT to buy a RED ONE.

1. It appears that we are just coming out of beta-camera. The boot problems are gone. Most features are enabled... but you can still find stuff that isn't right or isn't finished. While we are solving problems everyday, the RED ONE is just "almost". Definitely NOT perfect.

2. Workflow. While we have a great relationship with Apple, our Avid workflow needs help. It is not automatic and won't be for many months (notyears). REDCINE does rock. And it gets better everyday, but it isn't perfect yet. Transcodes are slow. And the fact the Graeme has reduced render times dramatically is great but it does not change the fact the we can get better. Look for Build 78. It is great. But not perfect.

3. Skew. We have more than film. Not much more, but more. We posted this a long time ago, but it bears repeating. While much better than almost every other CMOS sensor, it is there and if you whip-pan, you will see it more than a film camera. Most don't think it is an issue, but if you want to make it one... you can.

4. Meeting schedules. We are not meeting schedules as well as we would like. While we are doing the best we can, and have begun shipping again... we are behind. It is frustrating. I understand. You should complain. If it was my money, I would be be impatient. Keep posting that you want your camera NOW!

The RED ONE is not perfect. The above reasons are just a few of many. RED Digital is not perfect. We are building a camera company from scratch. It is tough as a m%^&*@fu&^%r. Not what we expected. But we are awake. Alive. And more dedicated than anyone you have ever met to deliver what you want and need. We are a small team trying to slay the giant. You have the right to be nervous. We are. We are so nervous that none of us can sleep. But you will have to kill us to stop us. If you bring up a problem, we will listen and get on it like a cheap suit. We have. We will. We always will.

We are our competitions worst nightmare. We will keep coming. Charlie Manson doesn't know the meaning of obsessed.

We are a patient customer's best friend. We will not forget you. We will make you happy whatever it takes. If we don't, we deserve to fade into the sunset like a bunch of other companies that didn't measure up.

If you want perfect... or finished, don't buy RED. If you are brave and want the ride of your life... give us a call.

Jim

Thankyou Jim, however we ALL would really appreciate an updated delivery schedule... PLEASE !!!

Thnakyou in advance.

[Brian Fairbanks]

Craig you should check the mail in the coming days. Enjoy

[Anders Brandt]

Just saw the original post on this thread. :-)
What other company would confess something like that?
All I can say is:

Glory to the Brave!

And I don't just mean The RED Team, I mean all of us joining the adventure!

[Travis]

Thankyou Jim, however we ALL would really appreciate an updated delivery schedule... PLEASE !!!

Thnakyou in advance.

Remember that if you need an idea of when you are shipping, the Bomb Squad is patiently waiting by the phone or ready to answer an e-mail.

949-206-7900...quick answers guranteed.

[Michael Booth]

Jim if I could afford it right now I'd put in an order regardless of the current issues. And I hope to at some point in the future.

[Graham]

Hello folks,
Many Avid customers and employees have commented on this thread so I wanted to weigh in.

I understand the interest that the Red Camera is creating in the market as well as our mutual customers’ desire to have a cohesive workflow with Avid.

We are currently trying to set up a meeting with Jim and his team to figure out the best way to move forward with this.


Thanks,
Graham

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Hello folks,
Many Avid customers and employees have commented on this thread so I wanted to weigh in.


Graham
you are welcome ..:nerd: are you from avid folk's ??

[Rocco Schult]

..
I understand the interest that the Red Camera is creating in the market as well as our mutual customers’ desire to have a cohesive workflow with Avid.

We are currently trying to set up a meeting with Jim and his team to figure out the best way to move forward with this.

Graham,

dunno if you're from Avid (a clear signature might help here when it sounds so official), but what would really help is a support of 3rd party Quicktime codecs.
Everytime a PITA that a MC doesn't work with other codecs on the system.
Problem solved.

[Michael Hancock]

I believe that was Graham Sharp from Avid. He posted the same thing on the Avid forums recently.

Michael.