Pricing speculation

[noclip]

RED was able to deliver a camera that Sony would have sold for $250k (10 years from now), for $25k. Would it be a stretch to assume that Scarlet may be a 4K EX1-type thing priced at some equally massive discount?

[Tonaci Tran]

Jim clearly stated that "It will never have features close to the RED ONE". Also, the more features you pack into something smaller, the more expensive it usually is.

4k in your pocket? I seriously doubt it. 2k is more likely.

[Aiden Cornwell]

Jim clearly stated that "It will never have features close to the RED ONE". Also, the more features you pack into something smaller, the more expensive it usually is.

4k in your pocket? I seriously doubt it. 2k is more likely.

I'm thinking 2k with a design to easly adapt the camera to a redrock system or similar adapter system as well as maybe future lenses created by red. I just hope it comes in under 4k so I can justify the cost to my wife.

[Charles Perkins]

under 10K i hope. should be interesting to see what you get for which price point they pick.

[Mark Thorpe]

1080P 4:4:4 up 120fps I reckon between $7 to $9.5k

[Vladimir Eugene]

I like the way things are looking. I'm estimating 720p at 150 fps at $6K. Using the same 8G cards with 45min record times. Plus 2 CF slots so things can keep on rolling- great for ENG, Documentary and other genres

[Carl Larsen]

I seriously doubt 720. I think Jim called 720p the "YouTube" version of 4k in another post somewhere back when the whole no 1080 thing went down on red one.

I'm hoping for 2K myself - it's still only 1/4 the resolution of 4k. That qualifies as "never having the features of red one" in my book.

[Alexander Christ]

I guess the price is closer to $5k than to $10k for the body, holding on the modular system is both a professional way and a good business model. A fully configured Scarlet could cost around $10k and could be sold in high volumes, what would be a good base to establish the RED Digital Cinema company in the market.

[brandon herman]

I think it will be a 2k camera, similar to the basic design of the Canon HV20. That camera is 1080, 24p. It has a surprisingly good picture.

And it's down to under $700 now (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/481076-REG/Canon_2059B001_HV20_2_96MP_CMOS_HDV.html)

(An upgrade is about to come out, too. The HV30, for about $1000.)

So could Scarlet be a similar shape, superior quality (of course), maybe up to 60p, and sell for well under $2000? Even with a c-mount?

Add some accessories and a lens; it would shoot 2k and cost 2k.

Red would get a ridiculous amount of publicity for it, sell about 3 to each person on these boards, and completely destroy the crop of other pocket cams shooting 1080 with AVCHD compression.

(And no offense, but who would even consider buying a 720 camera at this point?)

[Videoteque73]

under 10K i hope

Yeah! Too many pixels!!!
:clown2: :clown2:

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Should definitely be under 10K, otherwise it won't be so appealing.

Something around 5K sounds nice :).

[Cüneyt Kaya]

do you know what, lets keep this as a contest.

my bet:

SCARLET will be between 1500- 2000 $ and can do 720p/1080p 4:2:2 varispeed.
recorded to the CF cards.

SCARLET will battle the hvx 200 and the EX1.

[Yannick Hagman]

They have to offer something better, if they only show a prototype in April it will take another 7-9 months till they release it. There will be plenty other cameras who can do that at that time.

[killfilm]

i expect scarlet to be in the $7-10k range. it would smoke any "prosumer cams" out of the market, scarlet better stand out though cause new cams will be coming out. then again, other manufacturers are cheap in features and wont offer what scarlet will anyway.

[oldphart]

I agree that a price around half the Red One is most realistic for a professional "pocket" camera. My wife will not object at that - actually, she is the one to spend $4k on a Sony back in 2000 when that was rather much for something you do not need for work.

I am really intrigued with the phrase "motion capture", I really hope for something like a motion Leica but whatever they make I expect it to be interesting.

[David S.]

For those suggesting $2K, I wondering what else you need to buy for a complete package?

In other words, is there anything to suggest that the Scarlet will be ready to shoot?

[Shawn Nelson]

Remember the days when we all hoped that Red One would be under $10k? Then Red One was $25k just to be able to turn it on, $30k+ for a usable package.

My bet is that Scarlet starts at $9,950, to they can say "Under $10k!"

[A. Bastaki]

what i'd want is $8,500.. 2k with full size sensor.. 35mm. birger mount.

the add on accessories... the brick n prod pack.. should get it to around 10k. so with 10k.. you get storage.. power and a shoulder pad or basic prod. pack... the lcd should be built in and a part of the 8.5k package.

That would still be a monopoly.

There are no full size sensors for 2k and hd.

making a cropped 2k.. is like another silicon imaging thing. nothing revolutionary.

silicon imaging cam is like... $10k for 2k cropped footage.
if red makes a full size sensor that does 2k for less.. it would be revolutionary.
you kick adobe's ass. and every other film wannabe digital cinema company.

focus on that and you might have something worth looking at.
________
Tornado Engine (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Jeep_Tornado_engine)

[Cüneyt Kaya]

ok this is just thinking around....

red one:
around 30 k for a very good usable package (and you have a lens, too)
....crippled sonys 100 k cams.

what if:
scarlet is native 2k and costs 10 000 Usd, and 1000 usd for ad ons.

what will happen now?
lets look at some people who ordered a red.
1st group:
cool instead of spending 100 k on one sony, i get for the same price a cam, lenses, and the postproduction hardware.
2nd group:
the i am coming from dv, hdv, hvx200 land, its great to have a 4k cam for 17500 usd...realized, ok you will need 25 k to start work with the camera... gotta get some moneey, earn more, loans etc..but it is still a really great deal. awesome. i will spend my money on this....

then there were a lot of discussion about post....
its not posssible...it is...its expensive...you need this ....hey if you go straight to dvd you dont need all that stuff...this is a workflow, that is a workflow.

but hey....everybody is trying to find a good workflow within a "i am not a post house budget" to achieve the maximum

but wait there is the scarlet for 10 000 usd, it can do 2k, everybody says 4k isnt useful for an indy, 2k is enough....

some will cancel their red one, and will switch to scarlet.
you have 2k....and you have money for post.

for the hey i have little money i`ll buy the hvx 200, or EX1 guy 3000 USD difference is huge....it is 3000 USD!!!
sony can almost the same and is cheaper....

so far reds strategy was to sell a better product for a smaller price then the competition...but @ 10 000 USD the only competition is the red one.

i say scarlet will be 1080p for 2-3 000 usd.
i add something to my bet: you can buy a scarlet premium with a pl-mount and the 18-50 mm zoom for 10k....ah no, that would mean again MB FF FILTERS, gets too expensive.


______but hey i would still buy the red one

[justyn]

That would be fine indeed. A pocket 1080p HD camera for up to 4k. You'd had a killer deal there. When it's up to 10k there's options and that's a lot of cash for a camera that isn't half of what the Red one is... Make it affordable and do something that's in demand, and they'll be competing bigtime with the lower end, which makes more business sense and yields more marketshare and awareness. I haven't even seen a Red in person yet, but ya can't go into a shoot these days without seeing an HVX, A1, and now the EX. That's where the growth can really come in...

[Gordon JL]

It was easier for them to be "revolutionary" with the RED, because it's not only the best camera on the market , it's amazingly cheap, and modular to boot. With Scarlet, to get a reaction that is remotely similar to the first, they need to do something drastic and revolutionary. The expectations are extremely high. Lets hope they can meet them (or at least, not dissapoint, which isn't hard to do).

[Yannick Hagman]

Well, the good thing is there will be alternatives soon. The competition doesn't sleep. Casios camera is the first in a row of such alternatives.

[GrafxLvr]

RED was able to deliver a camera that Sony would have sold for $250k (10 years from now), for $25k.

Ding...Ding...Ding... Ding... We have a winner. You're right. 10 years from now, due to inflation & a weak US dollar, $250K will be $25K of today's dollar.

Yes... yes... but only in jest...!

[Nathan Garofalos]

Maybe when RED says "pocket professional" they mean that you can pay for it out of your pocket. Not that it will literally fit in your pocket just that the camera wont cost an arm and a leg.

[Chris Newman]

I am assuming they want to target people who can't afford a Red One, but they aren't ready to sell a million units yet, so it will probably be in the $5-8k range complete. Below is spectulation of how they would hit this price point.

Why the Red One costs as much as it does:
- Large sensor, but a Digital Rebel XT has the same size and sells for $400. The Red One's is just faster, which means more metal layers and more A/D's, so this chip probably costs under $500. Cost woudn't preclude this for Scarlet, but if they want it to be "pocket", they will probably go with 2/3".
- A huge FPGA chip to do 4k RedCode encoding. This chip is probably $2k+. So, clearly Scarlet can't be 4k. Probably 1080p or 2k or both.
- Personal support that includes free hardware bug fixes, etc. This is a tough one to get around for Scarlet, after they have set the bar so high, but hopefully the community will realize that this is impossible to continue for a product 1/6 the price, and cut them some slack.
- Optics. A complete basic Red One kit includes a lens that costs as much as the whole Scarlet, so they will have to come out with a 2/3"(or whatever it is) lens for not more than about $2k.
- Engineering. This will cost just as much for Scarlet (except for what they can reuse, such as RedCode), but they will make it up with volume.

Chris

[Gavin Greenwalt]

The other thing we have to keep in mind is RED couldn't handle even 100,000 customers at this point.

If RED intends to release a product that has wide appeal we're going to see some dramatic restructuring as a precursor. You can't just sneak out a product to 100,000 customers and not have the support and infrastructure in place. Which unless they're planning on shipping a good long time after NAB indicates that Chris is probably right this thing is going to need to be priced outside of $5k.